Can People Change?

[Phoenix84]

So, can people change?  Or maybe you could also think of the question as do people change?

I'm not thinking of any particular context, just asking the question.

The general vibe I get from this message board is that people don't change.  It doesn't matter if it's in the context of relationships, money, habbits, or whatever.

For example, it doesn't happen as much anymore, but when someone posts about marrital or relationship problems, the advice seems to be leave them because they'll never change.  Or, say, when someone is dating we tell them to accept their behavior or leave because it will never change.  Or people often mock New Years resolutions because people assume we are all creatures of habbit and incapable of making desired changes.  We often rail against welfare and complain these people won't make the changes in their lives to get off these programs 

So, do you think people can change their lives for the better (or I guess for the worst?  Does it happen?  Or are we all simply creatures of habbit?  And what you see is what you get in someone and they'll never change? 

[Deleted]

People can change. But change requires a personal stake/desire for a different outcome. Being willing is much more important in the end than being able.

[Sam_2.0]

Can they? Absolutely. But change is difficult, painful, and requires a lot of determination. So is change likely? Not really. Especially when it comes to certain beliefs & actions.

[Wisconsin Beth]

My husband changed.  He used to think that organics, natural food and homeopathy, etc. was BS.  Now he's pretty into it.  It's a philosophical shift as well as a practical/functional one.  And it's hard for all of us to adjust to. 

I think people CAN change.  But it's hard.  And it takes time and energy to make the change and then maintain it long enough for it to become the new rut you fall into.  If that makes sense. 

[zibazinski]

They can and they can't. I've always been attracted to good looking party boys. That hasn't changed. But having my life suck because I was did change. I had to make the conscious decision that I was going to meet someone stable and normal and, I did!

[NomoreDramaQ1015]

I believe people can change but it takes commitment. It also involves having to examine parts of yourself you may not like very much. Depending on the situation it can involve having to have others also poke around in your head, which a lot of people are uncomfortable with.

It's also an ongoing lifetime process. It's not like you click a switch and boom your personality is changed forever. You are still you, it's something you have to keep in mind so you don't slip back into old habits.

For example DH will always be an addict, he can't change that. He can change if he is an active user or not.

It takes a lot of inner strength/drive to get sober. Which our therapist told is not something many addicts have. They definetly don't have the strength to do it alone/cold turkey like DH did.

You can't make peopel change people have to WANT to change. If they don't want to or are too scared to then you are going to have to decide if you can live with htat person and their faults because change won't happen unless they desire it.

Which is what I think most Ym-ers are trying to say. If your husband/wife has been going strong 10 years into your marriage odds are htey are not going to magically have an epihany about their behavior and want to change.

If they do that is awesome but most people do not have the desire/drive/commitment to make real long term changes to themselves.

[Deleted]

What Beth is saying is probably key... Philosophical shift, the underlying change is what is probably necessary for real and lasting behavioral change...

[zibazinski]

[cronewitch]

People mature sometimes for the better. Take my oldest brother's first wife. She was a girl when I first met her. She and her best friend skipped school and each of them married my brothers at 17. This one was not faithful, no good with money, party girl. She had two daughters one was his. She left him, came back, left him again. She married between his marriages and twice since so 5 marriages. Now she is 63 married to the last one about 30 years. They spent years drinking every night at bars, he is older and already had grandkids. Now they have a beautiful waterfront home, he is in a wheel chair and she works and takes care of him and the house. Parties are kids and grandkids at home on the water a perfect wife, mother and grandmother now not so much 40 years ago.

My other brother is still married to her best high school friend and we have been invited to her daughters weddings the last at their home and we are facebook friends so I see what is up with her some. We always liked her so I am glad she turned out nicely.

[resolution]

Mar 13, 2013 11:08:33 GMT -5 Phoenix84 said:

For example, it doesn't happen as much anymore, but when someone posts about marital or relationship problems, the advice seems to be leave them because they'll never change.  Or, say, when someone is dating we tell them to accept their behavior or leave because it will never change.  Or people often mock New Years resolutions because people assume we are all creatures of habit and incapable of making desired changes.  We often rail against welfare and complain these people won't make the changes in their lives to get off these programs 

I think that people can change, but they have to be the one that decides that they want to change. One of the reasons you see so many people advising others to end their relationships is that the partner appears quite happy with the status quo. When you have one person unhappy and wanting their partner to change, but the partner quite content and not wanting to change, that is where you get into the scenario where change is unlikely.

I have a tendency to recommend counseling in the hopes that better communication might help the partner to understand why the OP wants change, but generally I am pessimistic about their chances.

[nogooddeed]

Sure people can change, but no one should make a decision based on thinking another person will change.

[ihearyou2]

The essence of a person's personality will never change. How that behavior is channeled is another story. You can channel your behavior into many different avenues that allow you to be the most productive that you can be or allow yourself to be a depressing loser. That is the really exciting part about life is understanding your strengths and weaknesses and tailoring life to extentuate the strengths and to shore up the weaknesses.

[justme]

People can and do change. The reason why people say accept them as they are/they'll never change is because you can't make a person change. These people are wanting SOMEONE ELSE to change, and that will never happen. The person will only change if they want to, and they probably won't since the liklihood of the person wanting change actually enabling the things they hate is pretty high. Waiting around for someone to change is an exercise is futility.

Can people change? Yes
Can you change someone else? No

[Phoenix84]

I guess as a follow up question, have you ever made any major changes in your life? 

[movingforward]

Mar 13, 2013 11:59:45 GMT -5 Phoenix84 said:

I guess as a follow up question, have you ever made any major changes in your life? 

I think there are a lot of people here who have changed the way they handle money.  They have made a conscious effort to change and learned from their mistakes, as well as taken the time to learn a new approach.  I really think taking the time to learn from your mistakes is often the key to changing.  Some people never learn from their mistakes (or have no desire to learn from their mistakes) and continue to go down the wrong road.

I personally handle money a lot differently now than I did in my 20's.  Part of it was maturity, part of it was not wanting to live on the edge any longer, and mainly it was an overall desire to change my ways. 

[thyme4change]

I've matured, but my basic thyme-ness is the same.  I've accepted that I will always be loud, and obnoxious.  I can't feel bad about that anymore.  I changed things I needed to change - like how I handle money, my desire for "things" and my unreal expectations of people around me, specifically my husband.  It was a hard process to change just a little, and some days I still struggle with it and I have to remind myself why I don't want to be like that.  I think about what else I would like to change about me, and I haven't really nailed down what I can do to improve my life that will be worth the effort of the change.  I now know what it takes, so I can't do it just for the fun of it - it has to be something that I really want to do.

[Deleted]

[Wisconsin Beth]

Mar 13, 2013 11:59:45 GMT -5 Phoenix84 said:

I guess as a follow up question, have you ever made any major changes in your life? 

I'm trying to change how I deal with my kids.  I yell first and think second.  And they're mimicking my behavior.  So it's got to change.

ETA - to me, it's a big change.  To you, maybe not. 

[grits]

I have seen many people change.  Humans do have the ability to change. I've seen drug addicts get clean, and start a new life.  I've seen selfish people become generous.  I've even seen the meanest most nasty brawlers become the most gentle kind people.

[NomoreDramaQ1015]

I have had to learn to swallow my pride and ask for help that has required a huge shift in mindset for me because I come from a family that is very much "suck it up buttercup" and pull yourself up by your bootstraps. Help is for weak people.

It didn't really sink in till my attitude royally bit me in the ass professionally. I don't believe that asking for help would have saved me, but I might have come out of it with a shred of dignity in-tact.

It also bit me in the ass with my marriage because we came to a spot where I couldn't force things to work anymore. It was either seek help or get divorced.

I learned there is no shame in asking for/seeking out help when you need it. There is no prize given for trying to force yourself to go at everything alone.

There are consquences to it though.

It's something I still struggle with at times but I am much better at recognzing the thought pattern and asking for help before I can talk myself out of it.

[vonna]

I changed, in some ways drastically.  I used to be about the most type A person I have ever known.  I was on overdrive all through school and college -- very competitive academically, involved in more activities than realistic, worked part time since I was 16 -- I was ridiculously driven.  I kept that pace up in my military career, but the internal drive started tapering off and instead of keeping the same pace and starting a second career, I pulled the plug on the first one as soon as I was eligible.

I retired at age 41 and now am the most relaxed, type B person I know!  I look back and hardly recognize myself. 

So, I made a big change, not really consciously, and certainly not because someone else changed me.  Luckily, my husband has not minded the change, my kids haven't really noticed anything except I am now a SAHM-- and my parents and siblings just laugh about it, and say they are surprised, because they could never relate to how hard I drove myself.

[Tiny]

An interesting read:  Power of Habit by Charles Duhigg.     People can change some things.  It isn't easy.  And there mayalways  be the threat of falling back to their original state.        
 

[giramomma]

Can people change: Sure. Like others said, if someone wants it bad enough.

My DH has been sober/in recovery with no slips/relapses for 5 years, actually at the end of this month-ish.
He has beaten the odds. With his particular addiction, over half don't make it to one year of sobriety.
But, my husband wanted to change. For a long time. Just didn't know how. (His addiction is rather stigmatized. It's not like where you can say your an alcoholic. If you are a recovering alcoholic, generally one is not met with "Oh, then you are lower than scum of the earth" because of all the stereotypes..)

I've changed some of my beliefs from being raised in a dysfunctional house. I HAD to change, because I wanted to remain married. At some point, if I continued my behaviors, it could be a bad situation for my husband. My old behaviors could push him into wanting to act out/get high.

The work I did on myself was noticeable. My boss even commented that my behavior/reactions are  much different.

Now, my folks. They won't change. For them the pain of staying the same is less than the pain of change. Even being estranged from their only child and grandchildren wasn't enough to make them think about their behavior. Their systems have worked for them for 60+ years.

 ETA: Like Drama, I also had to learn to accept help. But, not in the context of getting therapy. More in the context of normal helping others. Like people helping us move, bringing us dinner, etc But, these I think are things normal people wouldn't bat an eyelash at. I also had to learn how to give/help. We didn't help other people in any way. Even when we donated food for school, my parents always had me get the oldest/worst looking thing in our pantry to donate.

ETA Again: I also don't walk around thinking that my husband isn't ever going to slip/relapse. I know darn well I only get today. (Actually, there's another change, I never what-if about my future much anymore. I'm much more focused and present in today.) My husband's addiction was a cruel way to learn that there is no "Happily Ever After.", but simply happily for today, and we'll see what tomorrow brings tomorrow. I'm glad I learned the general lesson, though, early in our marriage.

[NomoreDramaQ1015]

I also don't walk around thinking that my husband isn't ever going to slip/relapse.

That required a huge change in mindset for me AND DH. We didn't know enough about addiction to understand that it is a lifelong struggle/process and that relapse is often part of the process.

Now that we know we have been able to structure our marriage so we live with the knowledge that DH is a recovering addict but also not let it run our lives.

A lot of people don't understand how parts of our marriage work and I don't expect them to, but we needed to learn it so we can stay married and DH can stay sober.

He made it 10+ years before he relapsed, that's quite an accomplisment according to his therapist considering what he was addicted to.

[midjd]

Can a person change? Sure.

Will that person change? Probably not.

[Phoenix84]

Mar 13, 2013 13:37:54 GMT -5 midjd said:

Can a person change? Sure.

Will that person change? Probably not.

Isn't your husband quitting smoking?  That's a big change.

What about you?  What are you going to change about your life? 

[midjd]

Mar 13, 2013 14:08:54 GMT -5 Phoenix84 said:

Mar 13, 2013 13:37:54 GMT -5 midjd said:

Can a person change? Sure.

Will that person change? Probably not.

Isn't your husband quitting smoking?  That's a big change.

What about you?  What are you going to change about your life? 

True, good point!

If we have a kid, that will require a lot of changes on my part (no drinking, no coffee, no sleep). Til then, I'm holding tight to my hedonistic lifestyle.

[Apple]

Mar 13, 2013 11:46:06 GMT -5 resolution said:

Mar 13, 2013 11:08:33 GMT -5 Phoenix84 said:

For example, it doesn't happen as much anymore, but when someone posts about marital or relationship problems, the advice seems to be leave them because they'll never change.  Or, say, when someone is dating we tell them to accept their behavior or leave because it will never change.  Or people often mock New Years resolutions because people assume we are all creatures of habit and incapable of making desired changes.  We often rail against welfare and complain these people won't make the changes in their lives to get off these programs 

I think that people can change, but they have to be the one that decides that they want to change. One of the reasons you see so many people advising others to end their relationships is that the partner appears quite happy with the status quo. When you have one person unhappy and wanting their partner to change, but the partner quite content and not wanting to change, that is where you get into the scenario where change is unlikely.

I have a tendency to recommend counseling in the hopes that better communication might help the partner to understand why the OP wants change, but generally I am pessimistic about their chances.

This!

I'll add, it often takes something MAJOR happening before a person will change.  There has to be something to motivate them into doing it, gouging, lighting a fire under their butt, whatever.  And the levels of extreme will vary.  I know a lady whose son killed his best friend in high school by drinking and driving.  You'd think this would be a wake-up call, but she was just busted for drunk driving and hit and run.  So, apparently her son killing someone was still not enough to motivate her to stop driving "buzzed" (she was drunk, but of course...)

Another guy would go home "sick" any time he was assigned a job he didn't like.  After a few years here, he had no sick leave.  Then his daughter was born 14 weeks premature.  He didn't have the sick leave to cover himself, so he took what he could as advanced sick leave or LWOP, but he had to come back to work much sooner than he wanted to.  BUT... guess who quit going home at the drop of a hat?  It was just no longer an option for him, so he had to change.

It can be catapulted by an outside force/person, but if someone else is the one who wants it, it's not likely to happen.

[Deleted]

Mar 13, 2013 11:51:06 GMT -5 ihearyou2 said:

The essence of a person's personality will never change. How that behavior is channeled is another story. You can channel your behavior into many different avenues that allow you to be the most productive that you can be or allow yourself to be a depressing loser. That is the really exciting part about life is understanding your strengths and weaknesses and tailoring life to extentuate the strengths and to shore up the weaknesses.

ihearyou2,

[Peace Of Mind]

Yes people can change.  As resolution stated - they have to want to change before they will.  My DH has changed in so many good ways and I've changed in a few.  But he's still late a lot but not as bad as he used to be.  The other things he's changed are way more important than that one so I've learned years ago to accept that in him.  He's also very slow moving.  I don't think God himself could change that in him.  I'm hyper - same thing.  Those are inherent traits that we were born with and there is no changing that no matter how hard we try. 

I still have a long way to go but I'm starting to suspect I don't really want to change some things and he seems okay with that.