thyme4change
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Post by thyme4change on Oct 26, 2012 9:54:55 GMT -5
This board has called me batshit crazy several times. I've never harmed anyone. I've been known to yell at work - usually when I have reached a high level of frustration in more than one area, some poor guy is there when the fuse gets lit.
Who knows? She might just be a person that loses her temper and moves on. If she does NOT get fired, getting a restraining order against her will be the talk of the office for years. It probably won't make wrongside look all that great.
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Oct 26, 2012 10:02:26 GMT -5
No one should have to live in fear, period, especially at work.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 26, 2012 10:15:15 GMT -5
Why should anyone have to deal with this behavior ever in a professional setting? Or any setting, period? You want to act like a horses ass? Do it on your own time not company. Because it is a university not a company. They are supposed to be a safe haven for radical, controversial, antagonistic thinkers. Being nice to your coworkers isn't required. That doesn't mean you are allowed to throw things at your coworkers, but it is harder to establish grounds for termination.
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Oct 26, 2012 10:25:43 GMT -5
Is she a professor? I'd be very unhappy to find out my student was being taught by a lunatic.
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thyme4change
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Post by thyme4change on Oct 26, 2012 10:25:45 GMT -5
Why should anyone have to deal with this behavior ever in a professional setting? Or any setting, period? You want to act like a horses ass? Do it on your own time not company. Because people aren't perfect, and you have to deal with people at work.
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Oct 26, 2012 10:30:09 GMT -5
That's fine. I'm not perfect either but my ass would have been gone if I'd have yelled at a co-worker even once.
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lynnerself
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Post by lynnerself on Oct 26, 2012 10:38:19 GMT -5
We just suspended someone for a week without pay for standing in the middle of the room and yelling at the whole office. But we are walking on eggs because she said she went off because she was being harassed by another co-worker. (Only if harassment is eye rolling and snide remarks.)
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thyme4change
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Post by thyme4change on Oct 26, 2012 10:43:16 GMT -5
My office - people yell. I have a handful of people that I know I'm going to get yelled at if they come to my meetings. It is just the way they communicate. We have a whole division that yells. I don't think there is a person there who speaks an appropriate volume or tone.
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lynnerself
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Post by lynnerself on Oct 26, 2012 10:48:06 GMT -5
thyme, do you have clients within hearing? This is one reason why we don't tolerate unprofessional behavior.
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thyme4change
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Post by thyme4change on Oct 26, 2012 10:51:10 GMT -5
No.
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Post by The Walk of the Penguin Mich on Oct 26, 2012 10:58:17 GMT -5
This board has called me batshit crazy several times. I've never harmed anyone. I've been known to yell at work - usually when I have reached a high level of frustration in more than one area, some poor guy is there when the fuse gets lit. Who knows? She might just be a person that loses her temper and moves on. If she does NOT get fired, getting a restraining order against her will be the talk of the office for years. It probably won't make wrongside look all that great. Thyme, there really is something wrong with this lady. I am hoping she DOESN'T get fired. I'm not planning on getting a restraining order or doing anything to aggravate the situation. I want OFF this lady's radar because I think she is dangerous. Please, go with your gut on this. If you think she is dangerous, then for God's sake, don't just let HR handle this. At the very least, go to your local police station and speak to someone there. If you are at a university, their machinations work HORRIBLY slow. In the meantime, things could be getting worse in this person's brain. And if it is not you, it will be someone. JMHO
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midjd
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Post by midjd on Oct 26, 2012 11:02:54 GMT -5
I think the issue is that she isn't CURRENTLY dangerous, but may be if she loses her job. Which is probably more likely to happen if Wrongside involves the police.
(Based on her description of the incident, I really don't think the police can do anything at this point. Assault would be a stretch.)
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kent
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Post by kent on Oct 26, 2012 12:19:08 GMT -5
OK, while I haven't read every single response, I'm going to throw in my two cents based on my HR experience with this type of behavior in a public sector/university environment.
First off, HR sent the wrong person home, particularly if they are trying to put together some sort of "case" against her.
Secondly, you, and others, have, without a doubt, been subjected to conduct that constitutes a "hostile environment."
I would not bother with a restraining order because they are often difficult to get and generally aren't worth the paper they are written on. Not only that, they just fan the flames.
If you are dealing with a lower level HR "expert," they probably are on the younger side, lack sufficient exposure to this type of issue and are usually more inclined to take the "touchy-feely" approach to resolution (relatively common in a university setting). If that's the case, you should push for a meeting with a senior HR person, up to and including the head of HR if necessary.
If, however, the decision to send you home with pay, was made by the head of HR, I'd seek the advice of counsel sooner than later.
An employment attorney will explain your rights and go over the concept of constructive discharge/wrongful termination which is something you need to know in the event this thing escalates to the point you decide to quit.
When discussing this with your attorney, or HR, tell them exactly how you feel about this, don't "sugar-coat" things or make excuses for the dingbat - like she's under a lot of stress, or she doesn't really mean it or whatever. She is, in fact, acting in a threatening manner and at any time could go completely off the deep.
For what it's worth.....
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thyme4change
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Post by thyme4change on Oct 26, 2012 12:25:26 GMT -5
Do we know if both people were sent home?
It might have been a gift to send wrongside home. She took the emotional beating, so she gets a few hours back to recover.
It might have been that crazy-lady spent the rest of the day locked in a room with HR talking about and "documenting" the situation.
It might have been that crazy-lady had to teach a class later and they didn't want to cancel class, however, they did have a security guy and an HR person sitting in the class to make sure it was all okay.
Maybe they both went home.
I wouldn't pay for an attorney because your boss gave you a couple of hours to relax. My boss once gave me the afternoon off because he gave me a less than stellar employee review. I wasn't about to get fired, I wasn't out of control. I didn't need a lawyer. He just wanted me to have some time to relax.
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Angel!
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Post by Angel! on Oct 26, 2012 12:47:31 GMT -5
I am a little surprised about the attitude about restraining orders on here. They actually do tend to work very well. The reason they work is because violent situations tend to escalate due to proximity/contact. Being apart or getting arrested a few times for attempting to contact someone tends to dissaude MOST people from continuing to attempt contact & keeps the situation from escalating. Now, of course their are nutballs out there & if someone is actually intent on hurting you, then a piece of paper can't stop them.
I am not saying this situation calls for one, at best you could argue emotional/verbal abuse. You could probably easily get a temporary order, but that might be all. I would wait to see how it plays out. If she is fired & makes any attempt to contact you outside of work, I would definitely file a restraining order. If she isn't fired, then i would have a talk with HR about creating a situation where you not working directly with this woman in any way. That is a reasonable request if she isn't fired over the incident.
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swamp
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Post by swamp on Oct 26, 2012 12:49:29 GMT -5
I don't think there was any criminal conduct to warrant an Order of Protection being issued. It's not illegal to be an ass.
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thyme4change
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Post by thyme4change on Oct 26, 2012 13:14:09 GMT -5
phew
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Nazgul Girl
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Post by Nazgul Girl on Oct 26, 2012 13:50:55 GMT -5
My main problem with the behavior of the attacker ( verbally ) was that not only did she do it once, she returned and targeted Wrongside again. She also acted even worse toward her, including throwing things around. That is a form of intimidation and bullying. I would quietly ask my boss/HR what is going to be done to protect me from anymore behavior "problems" by " Hortense", and I would categorically state that because she acted so over the top that I am afraid to be alone with her. I would throw in that I know everyone goes through tough times, and maybe there is some circumstance that is aggravating her " unprofessional and hysterical-type " behavior, but that I feel that she is personally targeting me. See what the boss and HR have to say, and take your measures from there.
At the very least, you should file a police report, along with obtaining a report about the incident from your employers' security office, and also I would speak to my attorney about what happened to you. This could turn into a big lawsuit if she keeps acting that way toward you. If they know you aren't going to put up with a lot of bullshit, then you may have a quieter life at work.
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thyme4change
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Post by thyme4change on Oct 26, 2012 13:54:20 GMT -5
Holy shit. No wonder everyone needs to raise taxes. If every person puts in a police report every time someone at works yells at them - how are they ever going to get around to fighting crime. So, now we expect them to be the "nice" police.
Am I the only one who lives in a world where people have emotions? Do you people all live in Stepford where nobody yells and everyone acts perfect all the time? And now yelling is a crime? WTF??!!
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Angel!
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Post by Angel! on Oct 26, 2012 13:55:33 GMT -5
My main problem with the behavior of the attacker ( verbally ) was that not only did she do it once, she returned and targeted Wrongside again. She also acted even worse toward her, including throwing things around. That is a form of intimidation and bullying. I agree. Of course I have been involved in DV & tend to be more sensitive to these things. Others apparently see this as a sort of temper tantrum. Has this woman ever been physically violent with anyone before? Since this seems to be your primary concern, then I think her history in this regard would be important.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 26, 2012 13:57:02 GMT -5
thyme I kind of agree that a lot of the reactions are over the top, but wouldn't you do anything about it?
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milee
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Post by milee on Oct 26, 2012 13:59:32 GMT -5
Holy shit. No wonder everyone needs to raise taxes. If every person puts in a police report every time someone at works yells at them - how are they ever going to get around to fighting crime. So, now we expect them to be the "nice" police. Am I the only one who lives in a world where people have emotions? Do you people all live in Stepford where nobody yells and everyone acts perfect all the time? And now yelling is a crime? WTF??!! Maybe we're all reading the OP differently and reacting to things we are inferring. FWIW, I'm with you, Thyme. Given no other facts than what is posted in the OP, if I were the employer here, I'd be working on getting rid of the yelling employee just because that is unprofessional and not a good environment, but I don't think anything illegal happened here. To be honest, though, if OP filed a police report, got a restraining order, started claiming this was a legal issue, or started otherwise dramatizing the situation, I'd also start watching her pretty closely as well. Professionals don't allow themself to be continually abused, but nor do they create a federal issue out of another employee's tantrum. Maybe there's more to the story, but again, based on what's posted, this is not a legal issue and it's time to be calm and professional, not create more of an issue.
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midjd
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Post by midjd on Oct 26, 2012 14:02:42 GMT -5
Do what?
It's not a crime to yell at someone - even if the person yelling is a total wackadoo. The police aren't going to be able to take any action. The court probably won't issue a TPO (and if they did, that would escalate the situation quickly, as Wrongside and the wackadoo would no longer be able to work in the same building... and if wackadoo has tenure, who are they going to tell to stay at home?)
Give HR a week or so to handle it, then check on the status. If they're not handling it to your liking, and you don't feel you can work there any longer, consult an attorney and/or start looking for another job. It sucks that you've been put in this situation, but (unfortunately?) her actions weren't QUITE over-the-top enough to give you many other options.
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thyme4change
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Post by thyme4change on Oct 26, 2012 14:04:24 GMT -5
Well - FIRST I would go back to work (or call my boss) and see what is really going on. Is she being punished? Is she being fired? Or has she been told to continue on? Then I would decide what to do. NO WAY IN HELL would I go to the police and say "A lady at work yelled at me."
We had a lunatic here. She yelled at me often. I was called to HR often. I did not go to the police. I told my boss, I told HR, and I kept notes. I watched my back (figuratively and literally.) I've gotten yelled at by men and women in almost every job I've had. I have never called the police. That is ridiculous. If she does that she will look like an idiot.
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Waffle
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Post by Waffle on Oct 26, 2012 14:08:15 GMT -5
I was in a situation many years ago where a laborer walked into the office I was working on and kissed me on the neck. Long story short, years later the HR manager said that they wanted me to file a police report, it would have supposedly given them a stronger case to fire the man. So, while I agree with those who say don't involve the police, I have this tiny voice in the back of my head that is wondering if the HR dept. actually wants Wrongside to do that.
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thyme4change
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Post by thyme4change on Oct 26, 2012 14:09:32 GMT -5
I wouldn't do their dirty work for them, on the chance that they don't want that at all.
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midjd
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Post by midjd on Oct 26, 2012 14:10:50 GMT -5
Based on the facts in the OP, Wrongside has no basis to file a police report, so even if HR wanted her to do so, it wouldn't make it the right thing to do...
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Waffle
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Post by Waffle on Oct 26, 2012 14:12:29 GMT -5
Just to clarify - I agree - I absolutely do not think that Wrongside should file a police report.
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milee
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Post by milee on Oct 26, 2012 14:17:09 GMT -5
This board has called me batshit crazy several times. I've never harmed anyone. I've been known to yell at work - usually when I have reached a high level of frustration in more than one area, some poor guy is there when the fuse gets lit. Who knows? She might just be a person that loses her temper and moves on. If she does NOT get fired, getting a restraining order against her will be the talk of the office for years. It probably won't make wrongside look all that great. Thyme, there really is something wrong with this lady. I am hoping she DOESN'T get fired. I'm not planning on getting a restraining order or doing anything to aggravate the situation. I want OFF this lady's radar because I think she is dangerous. Maybe it would help us understand the situation better if you explained why you think she's dangerous. It would also help if you clarified what she threw and in what direction. (Did she throw the work product back into the "in" basket or a stapler at your head?)
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Post by Deleted on Oct 26, 2012 14:20:27 GMT -5
wrongside - is this woman a member of a union? It can take a long time and a lot of documentation before you have just cause for firing in that case. Are there intermediate steps you can take - like insisting this woman not talk to you face to face at all?
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