milee
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Post by milee on Oct 25, 2012 16:42:59 GMT -5
milee according to the OP there is a pattern, this is just the latest incident. But there's no pattern with the OP. To harrass someone, you need to have a pattern of bad behaviour against/directed towards that person. One incident does not constitute harrassment.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 25, 2012 16:45:16 GMT -5
"There are some areas in the US with harrassment laws, but in most cases the harrassment has to be a pattern, not a one time tantrum." "But there's no pattern with the OP. To harrass someone, you need to have a pattern of bad behaviour against/directed towards that person. One incident does not constitute harrassment. "
There are different types of harrassment and I am pretty sure for most workplaces there is zero tolerance for harrassment. Maybe the law requires it to be a pattern for legal action but at work nobody has to take the other's craziness. It could be sexual harrassment so what you are saying is if it is one time, that is okay too? Harrasment is harrasment!
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rileyoday
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Post by rileyoday on Oct 25, 2012 16:45:40 GMT -5
Title V11 of Civil Rights Act of 1964. Employer provides a non hostile ,threatening work environment. Look it up its pretty clear this woman is both of those things.
I'm not an attorney but feel wrong side of 30 has been wronged. And HR knows it.
Insist on your rights to a non hostile work environment.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 25, 2012 16:48:06 GMT -5
lonewolf: from what the OP said it sounds like she's been there for a while and it IS her life... which makes things tougher for the OP. That is why she is so worried.
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8 Bit WWBG
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Post by 8 Bit WWBG on Oct 25, 2012 17:13:01 GMT -5
I re-read the OP and it sounds like the reason they sent wrongsideof30 home was to ensure that there wasn't a THIRD incident in one day.
This lady seems to have a history, so there were probably plenty of one-off incidents. But twice is getting into dangerous territory.
I firmly believe that wrongsideof30s employer is looking out for its OWN safety FIRST, and hers SECOND. That does not mean your interests cannot align, it just means that they are going to do what is best for themselves.
Wrongsideof30, you need to do what is best for YOU. Do not trust that HR will take care of everything in the way that is best for you. Document what happened while it is fresh in your mind. Get on record as saying you are extremely concerned for your own safety and ask what options you have. You have a window here where you are definitely the victim and your fear and concern is perfectly justified. You have to be very careful not to cross the line into "overly dramatic".
I also do not agree with abandoning your house and running away for a few days. There are some people who just don't "play by the rules" as it were, and I'd be very worried about leaving my home unguarded. Continuing that point, someone who is REALLY committed to doing you harm is not going to give a flip about a restraining order. Sure, there may be hell to pay for violating it, but in their minds at that moment it may all be worth it so long as they get their shot.
I'm not saying this to unnerve you, I just think that being realistic about what you are dealing with is important. If it were me, I'd be walking around with a baseball bat (or my kendo bokken) at my side at all times.
ETA: I don't mean "shot" as in firearms, I mean shot as in "chance".
ETAA: I'm sorry you are going through this and you have my best wishes.
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thyme4change
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Post by thyme4change on Oct 25, 2012 17:29:07 GMT -5
Okay - so if this lady is tenured, I'm sure there is a process to get rid of her if she is violent. But, if she is crazy and smart, there are probably loop holes, since the violence was more of the temper tantrum variety. I think the biggest fear is that she will convince the school to let her take time off to go to a facility for mental healing. Declare it a nervous breakdown or something. The minute she pulls that card (which most HR lawyers would know) she is protected under FMLA. She might be off for 12 weeks and then return. When she first returns, she will be sweet as candy (and fine and dandy) but her normal self will return. Hopefully she will have redirected her crazy by then and wrongside won't get caught in the crossfire.
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thyme4change
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Post by thyme4change on Oct 25, 2012 17:32:42 GMT -5
Well, sad as that is, it would solve wrongside's fear of being physically harmed.
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tskeeter
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Post by tskeeter on Oct 25, 2012 17:32:49 GMT -5
Wrongside, my take on the situation.
When HR asked you to do a write up on the incident they are working on documenting this person's behavior so they can discipline or terminate them. Tenure or no tenure. HR is trying to resolve the situation.
I agree with bunnysmom that a restraining order doesn't provide any protection. The police can't do anything until the restraining order has been violated. Once there is a violation, the period of time that it will take for the police to respond leaves you exposed to further contact with this person. And, I suspect that a restraining order could aggravate the situation, not calm it down.
Since HR sent you home, it appears that they have reason to be concerned about further actions by this person. If they don't terminate this person, I think you might consider asking to be assigned to something where you do not have any contact with this person. Never seeing each other again would be even better. You might also ask HR if they know of any reason why you should be concerned for your physical safety. This gives you an idea just how violent this person might get and may give you recourse against a deep pocket if this person should physically attack you. (And, expressing conerns about your physical safety would tend to encourage your employer to handle the incident more aggressively.)
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thyme4change
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Post by thyme4change on Oct 25, 2012 17:34:10 GMT -5
I agree - if I yelled at you at work, and then I got a restraining order slapped on me, I'd be pissed.
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souldoubt
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Post by souldoubt on Oct 25, 2012 17:37:59 GMT -5
I understand why you might be concerned but it seems to be a bit of a reach at this point to me. Like others said document everything and follow up with your boss/HR if you feel the need if nothing comes of it. Other than that someone being a ***** or having a bad day at work usually isn't grounds for getting a restraining order or fearing for your safety.
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thyme4change
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Post by thyme4change on Oct 25, 2012 17:41:50 GMT -5
She was probably sent home because she was sitting at her desk crying. You ain't getting work out of that person, and everyone else is all worked up about it, too. They needed to diffuse the whole situation. The best way is to send everyone to their separate corners and then figure out how to move forward.
I bet this isn't the end of this lady, unless they have been documenting it for a while.
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Post by The Walk of the Penguin Mich on Oct 25, 2012 18:02:52 GMT -5
If I were in her position, I would file a restraining order (yeah, but it starts a paper trail that allows the police to act), get a gun and learn how to use it and obtain a concealed carry permit.
Unless the OP has a restraining order, the police's hands are tied if she starts stalking the OP.
This lady sounds like she's off her rocker and there are limits as to employer liability. The OP needs to take moves to protect herself. She may never need to use them, but they'd be useful if this woman totally goes apeshit and assumes that the OP is the catalyst of her dismissal (which it sounds like it could be entirely likely happening).
I'd also suggest that the OP gets away for a few days until things die down at work. Change up routine and keep changing it.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 25, 2012 18:15:48 GMT -5
She was probably sent home because she was sitting at her desk crying. You ain't getting work out of that person, and everyone else is all worked up about it, too. They needed to diffuse the whole situation. The best way is to send everyone to their separate corners and then figure out how to move forward. I bet this isn't the end of this lady, unless they have been documenting it for a while. It depends what led her to come unhinged. Tenure is designed to protect academic freedom. The right to fiercely defend your beliefs is more important than a healthy work environment. So if she flew off the handle for something that could be construed as her research, she may be safe. They need to catch her clearly violating University policies for conduct in a way that is independent of her academic freedom. I don't envy wrongside or HR.
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Post by The Walk of the Penguin Mich on Oct 25, 2012 18:19:40 GMT -5
I had a sheriff's deputy once tell me that a restraining order would do nothing to slow a bullet. We're probably all over reacting. This woman may just be having a PMS moment. True, but what it DOES do is untie the police hands. Unless there is something on file, a paper trail, the cops can do NOTHING. And quite frankly, in this situation it is better to overreact for nothing, than not react and this woman does something harmful to the OP. And this does not sound like a PMS moment.
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mtman
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Post by mtman on Oct 25, 2012 18:32:32 GMT -5
HR said they wanted me to go home for the rest of the day You're the one they sent home.....Better dust off the resume.
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mmhmm
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Post by mmhmm on Oct 25, 2012 19:46:57 GMT -5
wrongside, if I were you I'd try to calm my worries at this point and watch to see what's done. The fact that HR just recently put out policy on bullying speaks tomes to this issue. They probably got their ducks in a row before issuing policy, but this will be the first time they must use it and they want to get it right. If, in a week or so, it appears nothing has been done about this issue, I'd go to HR to find out why not. If the behavior continues on the part of this woman, I'd be in HR filing a grievance and asking for their help in obtaining protection from this woman's wrath. I'd make it quite clear to them they'd be expected to take their part of the responsibility.
For the record, I'd have sent you home, too. Something like that is very, very upsetting to an employee. I've found it better to send the affected employee home to get some rest and get their composure back while I deal with the offender. I doubt very seriously there's anything to worry about in that regard.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 25, 2012 19:52:22 GMT -5
I think that you just need to do what you believe is right and not worry about retaliation or any of that. Just go forward with you believe is right be it filing a report or whatever else you think is the proper response.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 25, 2012 20:38:21 GMT -5
HR said they wanted me to go home for the rest of the day You're the one they sent home.....Better dust off the resume. No. I've worked with unbalanced populations, until you can stabilize the situation, you move those at risk to safety and give crazy space. So sorry you are having to deal with this wrongside. ... Hope tomorrow brings better...
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Nazgul Girl
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Post by Nazgul Girl on Oct 25, 2012 21:43:47 GMT -5
I was not sitting at my desk crying. A few tears fell after crazy lady left for the second time, but I definitely was not sitting there crying. I did not engage with crazy lady and I held my composure very well. I'm not considering getting a restraining order (at this point anyway). As of right now, I'm sure crazy lady thinks this was just a regular Thursday. I don't think HR knew what to do in the moment. I'm sure there will be plenty of meetings tomorrow. It's the backlash that I'm worried about. Wrongside, it is just possible that we might work for the same employer, or for a very similar one. Our type of employer has strict anti-bullying policies, and if HR called Security on her ass, you'd best believe that she's going to be dealt with. If anything happens to you, or there is any retaliation against you on her part, you could potentially sue your employer as well as the batshit crazy woman. We have had doctors that act like that on the staff of our medical school, and I happen to know that one who acted out toward employees was disciplined, although he is one of the big wheels in a certain transplant program that we have. Just because he was known as " God " didn't mean that he could get away with intimidating employees and throwing things around. Our anti-bullying program has some real teeth. Good luck and I am very sorry that this happened to you. A few weeks ago, my workplace sent out our new anti bullying policy. They said they would be taking it extremely seriously. After this was sent out, some people were speculating that this policy was created to deal specifically with crazy lady. Because of what happened today, crazy lady undeniably broke the policy and I think she will be facing severe consequences. I also think she will be blaming me.
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Nazgul Girl
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Post by Nazgul Girl on Oct 25, 2012 21:45:09 GMT -5
Somehow, what I wrote wound up in the middle of the quote of Wrongside's post....my actual entry is....
" Wrongside, it is just possible that we might work for the same employer, or for a very similar one. Our type of employer has strict anti-bullying policies, and if HR called Security on her ass, you'd best believe that she's going to be dealt with. If anything happens to you, or there is any retaliation against you on her part, you could potentially sue your employer as well as the batshit crazy woman. We have had doctors that act like that on the staff of our medical school, and I happen to know that one who acted out toward employees was disciplined, although he is one of the big wheels in a certain transplant program that we have. Just because he was known as " God " didn't mean that he could get away with intimidating employees and throwing things around. Our anti-bullying program has some real teeth.
Good luck and I am very sorry that this happened to you. "
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 25, 2012 22:21:39 GMT -5
Well, sad as that is, it would solve wrongside's fear of being physically harmed. As long as she doesn't try and take other with her. Odd how it's always the men who do that. Have you ever known a woman to go Postal and shoot others? I wonder why. Yes, at least one woman has done it. www.msnbc.msn.com/id/11107022/ns/us_news-crime_and_courts/t/police-look-motive-deadly-postal-shooting/I'm not sure I did the link correctly, Jennifer Sanmarco opened fire at a Santa Barbara, CA postal facility in 2006. wrongside, crazy lady sounds like she has some serious issues. I know exactly what I would do and could expect with this kind of situation at my job, but that is specific to my employer, so it wouldn't help you much. I understand your concern that this may be the beginning of something bad and I think it's a valid concern. It can't hurt to take some extra precautions as far as your personal safety goes. I'm interested in hearing how your employer handles the situation. Hopefully soon you'll be able to go to work and go about your life without worrying about what the crazy lady might do.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 26, 2012 5:46:46 GMT -5
She will not get fired for your one little incident. tenured - it takes 100's of incidents PLUS she will fight the university in court to drag it out.
Restraining order would not be granted for a one off situation like you describe. If you file, and get denied, any future filings can also be thrown out. If you are thinking in this direction I suggest that you talk to an attorney before you get led down the wrong path.
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Bluerobin
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Post by Bluerobin on Oct 26, 2012 6:45:40 GMT -5
wrong, if this lady is crazy, a PFA is only a piece of paper and won't protect you. That said get one, along with a CCW and a weapon. Use them for protection.
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happyhoix
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Post by happyhoix on Oct 26, 2012 7:18:00 GMT -5
wrong, if this lady is crazy, a PFA is only a piece of paper and won't protect you. That said get one, along with a CCW and a weapon. Use them for protection. Maybe I missed something, has this woman been violent with people in the past - actually laid hands on someone or threw things at someone - or is she the kind of crazy that erupts and screams but never physically touches you? I've worked with volatile people who blow up, calm down and then act like nothing happened, and in fact don't understand why their co-workers are upset with them. They aren't physically violent, they wouldn't hunt you down at home and try to strangle you. Sure they're pains to work with and they ought to be fired, but I don't think these people would actually go postal on anyone.
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Bluerobin
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Post by Bluerobin on Oct 26, 2012 7:21:16 GMT -5
happy, go ahead and believe as you wish. It is best to be prepared.
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Oct 26, 2012 7:22:48 GMT -5
Why should anyone have to deal with this behavior ever in a professional setting? Or any setting, period? You want to act like a horses ass? Do it on your own time not company.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 26, 2012 7:23:45 GMT -5
Why? Because in reality, i think a lot of people have to deal with a lot of different behaviors depending on who is running the company and your job status.
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alabamagal
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Post by alabamagal on Oct 26, 2012 7:39:03 GMT -5
wrong, I think you are handling this correctly.
This woman sounds almost exactly like one of my former (male) employees. He was diagnosed as bipolar and was supposed to be taking medicine. (I'm not trying to diagnose this lady, but it sounds eerily similar) On his "good" days he was a great employee got along great with everyone and did super great work. But if something went wrong, he would yell and scream at other people, not quite what you would consider violent, but it was bad. As his manager, I had to document all these incidents. However he was a longtime company employee (>30 years) and over 55, so in a "protected class", and my company was always so scared of firing anyone, so they just tolerated it. This was 15 years ago, nowadays people are more sensitive to harrassment issues.
I agree that wrong's situation is harassment, even if was only once (or twice in one day). If nothing happens, I would pursue a harassment claim with HR.
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Oct 26, 2012 9:45:26 GMT -5
If the boss is acting like a horses ass, it is what it is. Put up with it or find another job. But an employee should not be allowed to act like that ever.
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Wisconsin Beth
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Post by Wisconsin Beth on Oct 26, 2012 9:46:37 GMT -5
Any word today?
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