sheilaincali
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Post by sheilaincali on Oct 25, 2012 8:38:23 GMT -5
PS- most serious employers don't get rid of people "willy nilly". It is a pain in the ass to replace people. I have a close relationship with dozens of business owners and I can tell you that from their perspective laying people off is a last resort. Most owners I know will cut or eliminate their own pay before they have to lay off a hard working, difficult to replace employee.
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Rocky Mtn Saver
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Post by Rocky Mtn Saver on Oct 25, 2012 9:19:36 GMT -5
Well clearly I cant go back and change that I already have kids. I do have to work at my primary job until I could get a business generating income. So whats the best way to get the initial money? Snowflake money.
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Phoenix84
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Post by Phoenix84 on Oct 25, 2012 9:39:04 GMT -5
"Well clearly I cant go back and change that I already have kids. I do have to work at my primary job until I could get a business generating income. So whats the best way to get the initial money?"
Doxie, usually people start businesses with either personal savings, with grants, or with business loans from banks.
I'm not sure what business you want to start, but you can start looking into grants online. Also, put a business plan together and shop around at various financial institutions. I hear loans are harder to get, but if you can sell the business idea (and it's a good one) you might get start up capital.
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sheilaincali
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Post by sheilaincali on Oct 25, 2012 9:42:52 GMT -5
Doxie- I don't say this to be mean but don't quit your day job to start a business. You don't have the drive to run your own business. Everyone I know that owns their own business is the first one in and the last one out every day. They put in 70 to 80 hours a week, go in on weekends, holidays, evenings, etc to work. You have way too many distractions and not enough support from your spouse to be able to juggle it all.
I'll give you some examples- My dad owns his own business- the first one he bought after working for them (and in the industry) for a number of years. He scrimped and saved and was able to secure financing through a local bank. He left the house at 4:30 every morning so he could do paperwork before the rest of the world went to work and starting calling him and pulling him in a dozen different directions. He came home for dinner every night at 6 pm. Most evenings he did additional work at home or went back to the office for a couple of hours in the evening. Saturdays- he was up and to the office working by 4:30 again, would come home around 10 with donuts for us kids. Sundays- after church and brunch he'd go back to the office for a few hours or work on some things at home. He put nearly every penny of profit back in to the company to build it up. We didn't go on vacations and Dad made it to as many sporting events of our as possible but it was far from every one. We would go on camping trips as a family. Mom would take Fridays off from work and we'd head up to the camp ground and set up the tent and that. Dad would drive up separately on Saturdays and stay until we all left on Sunday. My mom worked a full time job but she still handled the bulk of the "kid stuff" dropped us off at school and we either took the bus home or she'd pick us up after work. She took time off from work for dentist appointments and things like that. Now Dad is able to enjoy the fruits of his labors. He has the people in place so he doesn't have to work 80 hours a week (he still does many weeks) He has a paid for house and a paid for vacation home in California and millions in his retirement accounts. But it wasn't a quick thing. He went to work for the first company in 1983, bought it in 1989 and has been building things up and buying up new companies since 1998. Even when he and mom go to their place in California he still calls and emails me a dozen times I day. He dials in with his laptop and works on bids and projects long distance.
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swamp
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Post by swamp on Oct 25, 2012 9:49:28 GMT -5
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hoops902
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Post by hoops902 on Oct 25, 2012 9:50:37 GMT -5
No, hoops I wasn't suggesting that. If I pay for more insurance on my home, and if it is destroyed, then I should get more money to help rebuild. JD, I wouldn't argue that the longer you work somewhere, the more time you ostensibly have to build up a cushion, and the less you "need". My savings is my business. If I have three children and you have one, I shouldn't get a bigger pay check. So, just wondering, why someone who works 12 years gets the same unemployment as someone who works 34 years. Because it is insurance. If we have equal homes, we pay the same premiums on those homes, but you have owned your home 3x as long, you've paid 3x the amount of premiums, but you've gotten 3x the length of coverage. Your loss is no greater than my loss when our homes get destroyed. We are both out $100,000 let's say. You are not out $300,000 just because you've lived there 3x as long, so you do not get 3x the payout. Having paid more into the system has nothing to do with the payout you receive, because you've been covered 3x as long. ::So, just wondering, why someone who works 12 years gets the same unemployment as someone who works 34 years:: Because they both have the same insurable loss. You don't get more money for an insurance claim based on how long you've gone without making a claim. Your loss is your loss, you don't get a bigger payout for having not made a claim. It doesn't take you longer to find a new job just because you were working longer.
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hoops902
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Post by hoops902 on Oct 25, 2012 9:52:36 GMT -5
::Unemployment insurance should be paid by the employee, not the employer. People with long enough job histories shouldn't pay a premium any more. (As they woul have paid enough in to cover unemployment compensation if they lose a job)::
It's insurance, do you get to stop paying premiums on your automobile after you've paid in enough to cover the full cost of replacing your car? Or with your home?
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herman
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Post by herman on Oct 25, 2012 10:00:28 GMT -5
I'm glad there are benefits like social security, disability, welfare, food stamps, free school lunches, & unemployment to help those who are really in need. I'm pretty certain most working class folks wouldn't mind the forced contributions if the benefits were truly being used by the folks who are in need. NONE of these programs were EVER intended to be a full time allowance for generations of families who have scammed the system and found the loopholes needed to get a free ride. All we can hope for is that the ones who are truly in need and receiving these benefits outweigh the number of scammers and con artists living off the tax payers' dime while perfectly capable of working. Peace out.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 25, 2012 10:31:34 GMT -5
I’m at work and haven’t had time to read all the recent posts, but my feeling is that it’s a combination of the government and charities encouraging dependency and people relying on it and wanting more. Sometimes I wonder what would happen if we cut off all benefits to babies born after a certain date- no food stamps, no WIC, no Medicaid, no free school lunches, breakfasts, etc. If you can’t take care of them they’ll be taken into an orphanage and put up for adoption. I get this awful feeling that there’s a segment of the population that chooses to reproduce knowing all the social programs are in place so it’s notreally a financial burden to have another baby. We need to stop that, and we need to address the way people are penalized for marrying. You marry the baby daddy and all the freebies go away if he’s gainfully employed. That’s just wrong. Go after the ones that are shacked up and have a decent combined income if you count the guy’s earnings.
Finally, keep social support programs lean and mean. If people have it better staying home and collecting benefits, it’s a disincentive to work. The benefits you lose if you start working should be phased out gradually so that you don’t lose Medicaid if your annual income goes up by $500 a year, for example.
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Angel!
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Post by Angel! on Oct 25, 2012 10:31:45 GMT -5
So how do you get money to start a business if you can't borrow from your parents or a bank? How do you start it without money to fund the initial out lay of costs? Sell the cars. Pay off the CCs. Save the $1500-$2000/month that were going to the CCs & Cars. Refi the townhome. Save the ~$200/month that saves you. Save your snowflake money. You could probably have $25K within a year pretty easy. You just need to make choices that allow that savings. Your choices, not your situation or bad luck are the reason you always feel poor.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 25, 2012 11:15:06 GMT -5
I call BS on the idea of reporting people doing nothing.
My "worker" was/is a total hag to deal with. She scrutinizes every single document and demands I send new copies of everything in my life, every chance she gets.
If baby daddy is living in the home, and it isn't reported, it is fraud. They do care about that and will investigate it. Perhaps not disability if the doctor has signed off, but definitely for FS, TANF and all the rest. Here the workers want less work, not more, and are happy to boot people off when possible.
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swamp
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Post by swamp on Oct 25, 2012 11:17:03 GMT -5
There are 2 full time welfare fraud investigators in our county who are pretty busy and seem to make regular arrests. I've had to defend 2 felony welfare fraud cases in the past year, and I'm not hte only defense attorney here.
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milee
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Post by milee on Oct 25, 2012 11:32:21 GMT -5
Doxie- I don't say this to be mean but don't quit your day job to start a business. You don't have the drive to run your own business. Everyone I know that owns their own business is the first one in and the last one out every day. They put in 70 to 80 hours a week, go in on weekends, holidays, evenings, etc to work. You have way too many distractions and not enough support from your spouse to be able to juggle it all. I'll give you some examples- My dad owns his own business- the first one he bought after working for them (and in the industry) for a number of years. He scrimped and saved and was able to secure financing through a local bank. He left the house at 4:30 every morning so he could do paperwork before the rest of the world went to work and starting calling him and pulling him in a dozen different directions. He came home for dinner every night at 6 pm. Most evenings he did additional work at home or went back to the office for a couple of hours in the evening. Saturdays- he was up and to the office working by 4:30 again, would come home around 10 with donuts for us kids. Sundays- after church and brunch he'd go back to the office for a few hours or work on some things at home. He put nearly every penny of profit back in to the company to build it up. We didn't go on vacations and Dad made it to as many sporting events of our as possible but it was far from every one. We would go on camping trips as a family. Mom would take Fridays off from work and we'd head up to the camp ground and set up the tent and that. Dad would drive up separately on Saturdays and stay until we all left on Sunday. My mom worked a full time job but she still handled the bulk of the "kid stuff" dropped us off at school and we either took the bus home or she'd pick us up after work. She took time off from work for dentist appointments and things like that. Now Dad is able to enjoy the fruits of his labors. He has the people in place so he doesn't have to work 80 hours a week (he still does many weeks) He has a paid for house and a paid for vacation home in California and millions in his retirement accounts. But it wasn't a quick thing. He went to work for the first company in 1983, bought it in 1989 and has been building things up and buying up new companies since 1998. Even when he and mom go to their place in California he still calls and emails me a dozen times I day. He dials in with his laptop and works on bids and projects long distance. This is very similar to my experience with starting and growing a business. And yes, when you're in the first few years of saving up and planning for it, it is incredibly tough. The kind of tough where you ration the shampoo and your kids get $20 worth of gifts for Christmas, but you are in it as a family so you make it all work. Those are the kind of experiences that also help teach you the skills you'll need to be successful (sacrifice, delayed gratification, tenacity, creativity, etc.) I haven't followed your threads, so don't know if you have a college degree or not, but there are some similarities between getting a college degree and getting funding for your business. The end game (degree or funding) isn't meaningful without the work involved in obtaining it. If someone gave you a phd in physics from MIT, you would not be able to go out and do nuclear research any more than someone giving you a big check to start a business would help you start and run a business that would be successful. The things you learn while earning your degree are what helps you just like the things you learn saving your money and getting the business skills you need are what help you run your business. Shortcuts don't work in most cases.
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doxieluvr
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Post by doxieluvr on Oct 25, 2012 11:33:11 GMT -5
"Well clearly I cant go back and change that I already have kids. I do have to work at my primary job until I could get a business generating income. So whats the best way to get the initial money?" Doxie, usually people start businesses with either personal savings, with grants, or with business loans from banks. I'm not sure what business you want to start, but you can start looking into grants online. Also, put a business plan together and shop around at various financial institutions. I hear loans are harder to get, but if you can sell the business idea (and it's a good one) you might get start up capital. I have done a business plan a few years ago to start a trucking company. I was not sble to get financing. I have recently thought about opening a bail bonds business.
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milee
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Post by milee on Oct 25, 2012 11:38:29 GMT -5
"Well clearly I cant go back and change that I already have kids. I do have to work at my primary job until I could get a business generating income. So whats the best way to get the initial money?" Doxie, usually people start businesses with either personal savings, with grants, or with business loans from banks. I'm not sure what business you want to start, but you can start looking into grants online. Also, put a business plan together and shop around at various financial institutions. I hear loans are harder to get, but if you can sell the business idea (and it's a good one) you might get start up capital. I have done a business plan a few years ago to start a trucking company. I was not sble to get financing. I have recently thought about opening a bail bonds business. To get financing, you'll need not just a good business plan, but also be able to demonstrate expertise in those fields and have some of your own skin in the game. When you can show you have a substantial amount of your own money invested in a field in which you have extensive background, you may be able to get funding.
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Rocky Mtn Saver
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Post by Rocky Mtn Saver on Oct 25, 2012 11:41:32 GMT -5
I have recently thought about opening a bail bonds business. Way to be all over the board, kiddo! You could start a bail bond business that sells insurance and candles and fixes cars out back...
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Angel!
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Post by Angel! on Oct 25, 2012 11:41:40 GMT -5
"Well clearly I cant go back and change that I already have kids. I do have to work at my primary job until I could get a business generating income. So whats the best way to get the initial money?" Doxie, usually people start businesses with either personal savings, with grants, or with business loans from banks. I'm not sure what business you want to start, but you can start looking into grants online. Also, put a business plan together and shop around at various financial institutions. I hear loans are harder to get, but if you can sell the business idea (and it's a good one) you might get start up capital. I have done a business plan a few years ago to start a trucking company. I was not sble to get financing. I have recently thought about opening a bail bonds business. Stop looking for the golden ticket, there isn't one. Get rid of your debt. Start saving money. If you really want to start a business, then get serious & work for it. If it is just your latest way to solve all your problems, then don't bother because it won't work.
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swamp
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Post by swamp on Oct 25, 2012 11:43:11 GMT -5
Doxie, are you gonna go all "Dog the Bounty Hunter" on the dude that skips bail?
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muttleynfelix
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Post by muttleynfelix on Oct 25, 2012 11:49:36 GMT -5
A few years ago was a tough time for the trucking industry. At least around here (and that is the major industry in my town). Of course you weren't able to get financing when established business were struggling left and right. The mayor of the city I work in owns a trucking company and he recently resigned as mayor because his business was failing with him no longer at the helm.
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Rocky Mtn Saver
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Post by Rocky Mtn Saver on Oct 25, 2012 11:54:17 GMT -5
Not to mention that asking for enough money to buy trucks as a new, untested business when you're not a pro in the field was most certainly not cheap. It's going to be much harder to get approved for $500k seed money than it is for $5k seed money.
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milee
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Post by milee on Oct 25, 2012 11:56:13 GMT -5
Not to mention that asking for enough money to buy trucks as a new, untested business when you're not a pro in the field was most certainly not cheap. It's going to be much harder to get approved for $500k seed money than it is for $5k seed money. Kinda. There's a sweet spot for business financing. Too much money is very risky, but too little money isn't worth the financier's time to evaluate, monitor, etc. So you'd be equally unlikely to get $500k or $5k.
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swamp
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Post by swamp on Oct 25, 2012 11:59:41 GMT -5
Not to mention that asking for enough money to buy trucks as a new, untested business when you're not a pro in the field was most certainly not cheap. It's going to be much harder to get approved for $500k seed money than it is for $5k seed money. Kinda. There's a sweet spot for business financing. Too much money is very risky, but too little money isn't worth the financier's time to evaluate, monitor, etc. So you'd be equally unlikely to get $500k or $5k. It depends on where you're looking for financing. Bank of America won't bother with you for $5k, but around here, just about every town and village has some kind of revolving growth fund/small business development office that has micro loans for people starting their own businesses.
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Rocky Mtn Saver
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Post by Rocky Mtn Saver on Oct 25, 2012 12:01:49 GMT -5
Not to mention that asking for enough money to buy trucks as a new, untested business when you're not a pro in the field was most certainly not cheap. It's going to be much harder to get approved for $500k seed money than it is for $5k seed money. Kinda. There's a sweet spot for business financing. Too much money is very risky, but too little money isn't worth the financier's time to evaluate, monitor, etc. So you'd be equally unlikely to get $500k or $5k. Interesting. So I'm guessing that at some low dollar point, you'd be expected to find some private party to loan it or pull out your credit card?
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swamp
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Post by swamp on Oct 25, 2012 12:02:38 GMT -5
Kinda. There's a sweet spot for business financing. Too much money is very risky, but too little money isn't worth the financier's time to evaluate, monitor, etc. So you'd be equally unlikely to get $500k or $5k. Interesting. So I'm guessing that at some low dollar point, you'd be expected to find some private party to loan it or pull out your credit card? Or podunk town economic development offices.
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Angel!
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Post by Angel! on Oct 25, 2012 12:03:51 GMT -5
Kinda. There's a sweet spot for business financing. Too much money is very risky, but too little money isn't worth the financier's time to evaluate, monitor, etc. So you'd be equally unlikely to get $500k or $5k. Interesting. So I'm guessing that at some low dollar point, you'd be expected to find some private party to loan it or pull out your credit card? With $5K it does seem like you would just use a CC or personal loan or something like Prosper.
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Rocky Mtn Saver
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Post by Rocky Mtn Saver on Oct 25, 2012 12:13:59 GMT -5
Speaking of Prosper, I'm curious about it. I am in the position to do some lending, I think. I won't hijack this thread, so I'll start a new one to solicit comments on Prosper.com or alternatives.
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midjd
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Post by midjd on Oct 25, 2012 12:36:08 GMT -5
Orphanages funded by whom? Surely not tax dollars.
If you are proposing taxpayer-funded orphanages, it becomes pretty obvious that the issue is not the money, or necessarily the best interest of the child, but about punishing the parents.
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Angel!
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Post by Angel! on Oct 25, 2012 13:06:21 GMT -5
Orphanages funded by whom? Surely not tax dollars. If you are proposing taxpayer-funded orphanages, it becomes pretty obvious that the issue is not the money, or necessarily the best interest of the child, but about punishing the parents. And the children. That is just a ridiculous suggestion. Not everyone that is low wage is a crappy parent & doesn't deserve children. Not only that you could end up punishing people that were high wage & had some bad luck. Nothing like losing your job & then losing your kid also. As a society aren't we better than that?
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sheilaincali
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Post by sheilaincali on Oct 25, 2012 13:13:34 GMT -5
Like Muttley said- trucking companies are hurting right now. I pulled some examples from actual invoices- we hire independent trucking companies to haul loads for us. The following is an actual example from today.
Today's trip is 230 miles round trip. They usually try to haul 2 loads per day per truck. But for the sake of this we'll assume it's only one load today. Takes approximately 45 minutes to load the truck and strap down the load. 3 1/2 hours for travel time and that's assuming they are able to drive 60 mph the entire way. It will take a minimum of 45 minutes to unload at the site. The forklift can load on our end faster than the crane can unload at the other end, but to keep numbers easy we'll stick with 45 minutes to unload. Historical data tells me that we average no better than 6 mpg on a truck loaded with heavy freight. Again this is based on actual historical data.
The agreed upon rate for this trip is $350 round trip. 5 hours of his driver's time at an hourly rate of $20 per hour = $100 in labor 230 miles at 6 mpg = 39 gallons (rounded up for friendlier math) 39 gallons at today's current price per gallon of $4.29 = $167.31
So right away Bob (actual name of the trucking companies owner) has $267.31 tied up for a $350 contract. Maximum profit he could make on that load is $82.69.
But wait- that's before you pay for the truck itself. A quick google search found me a 2009 sleeper cab Peterbuilt for $84,000. And that's without the trailer. Insurance- We have a handful of pick ups on our policy as well but we pay $11,100 annually for our commercial auto (this includes 7 trucks- trucks, semis, etc) Tires- So far this year I have paid the tire companies $11,115.57 for tires for the trucks, (and the year isn't over yet)
It's not a get rich quick scenario. It's pretty much feast or famine unless you have established contracts with companies. You make your money with volume- number of trucks and number of loads they can haul.
So No. I'm not really surprised that a bank (during a steep down turn in the market and record high diesel prices) was not willing to give you financing with your lack of a college degree, experience in the industry, etc.
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HoneyBBQ
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Post by HoneyBBQ on Oct 25, 2012 13:16:28 GMT -5
I have done a business plan a few years ago to start a trucking company. I was not sble to get financing. I have recently thought about opening a bail bonds business. OMG.
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