muttleynfelix
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Post by muttleynfelix on Sept 12, 2012 16:02:39 GMT -5
In my experience with my child, this is not true. If you woke him up in the MOTN as an infant, there would be HELL to pay the next day. Then you suddenly started into the overtired cycle from hell and sleep is messed up for a month. (Yes I have PTSD from my son's first 9 months or so because he was such an awful sleeper. )
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movingforward
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Post by movingforward on Sept 12, 2012 16:02:53 GMT -5
I would probably just ask that he either crash at a friend's house or stay out until 6AM or within an hour of whatever time you typically get up. If he wants to go out with his friends that is fine but why should you feel like crap all day long at work because you are woken up in the middle of the night? If I wanted to feel like crap the next day then I would be out having a good time myself
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NomoreDramaQ1015
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Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on Sept 12, 2012 16:03:15 GMT -5
It isn't a reason to stop having friends or going out, but it is not unreasonable that if she has to work the next day he come home early or perhaps skip it this one month.
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Phoenix84
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Post by Phoenix84 on Sept 12, 2012 16:04:13 GMT -5
"We know Dark and Loop and we also know Loop could kick his ass if she really wanted to so we wouldn't think anything. There is terminology used here that most people get as joking. I hope!"
So then explain to me why it's funny when a woman beats up a man but not funny when a man beats up a woman?
And while you're at it, explain why domestic violance is funny and a joke to you.
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hoops902
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Post by hoops902 on Sept 12, 2012 16:05:32 GMT -5
It isn't a reason to stop having friends or going out, but it is not unreasonable that if she has to work the next day he come home early or perhaps skip it this one month. The same issue is going to be there next month though. So what's the limit? Does he skip it every month because it seems likely she's going to be employed next month also.
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muttleynfelix
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Post by muttleynfelix on Sept 12, 2012 16:06:51 GMT -5
You apparently never read Healthy Sleep Habits Happy child. According to the author, yes you are damaging your child for life if they don't get enough sleep as a baby. (I don't buy it now like I did when DS was a newborn, but I had a newborn that would not sleep and my mom gave me that book and it basically told me I was screwing DS up for life, but no real suggestions for how to get him to sleep.)
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movingforward
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Post by movingforward on Sept 12, 2012 16:09:06 GMT -5
Perhaps he should pony up the money for a Motel 6 when he goes out - they will leave the light on for him
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Pants
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Post by Pants on Sept 12, 2012 16:09:19 GMT -5
Ok, trying to address all points...
For context, he is currently working an afternoon shift, so he normally gets home at 10:30pm if he works no overtime. About half the time, he gets up with me in the morning to make breakfast and help get the baby ready since she comes to daycare at my work. This situation sucks for pretty much everyone involved and means that a lot of the freedom either one of us might have is restricted.
I'm not telling him he has to be home all the time. I wish he would go out more frequently. At this point, it's not all that feasible (see above), but I do understand and respect that he needs to get out of the house sometimes, just like I do. That said, I do not see why it's unreasonable for him to not go out for 6 hours at a time. I don't go out very frequently and still manage to be home when I say I will be home, after only a couple of hours. It really doesn't seem that hard.
The issue with coming home in the middle of the night is twofold: Scenario A, I wake up, he's not home, I panic despite the fact that I know it's entirely irrational. I am then awake until he picks up his phone or gets home, at which point the panic turns to anger that he has done this, AGAIN, and I still get no sleep. Scenario B, he comes in and wakes me and/or the baby up through some combination of squeaky floors/dogs/light/water noises etc. We have an apartment, it only has one bathroom, right next to the bedroom. He does sleep on the couch already when he comes home late from work or stays up late at night. I still wake up. If it's midnight, I have a good chance of getting back to sleep. If it's 2am, it becomes less likely. If it's 4am, forget it, I'm up for the f'ing day.
This issue is not a dealbreaker for me, when it comes down to it. Other than this, he is (currently) being a model husband and father, to the extent that his work schedule allows him to be around. I love him a lot.
It seems that I cannot create an incentive (pos or neg) that is enough for him to change this behavior. I've tried. Which is why I am trying to understand how to let something go when it really, really pisses you off. How do you make something not piss you off anymore?
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hoops902
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Post by hoops902 on Sept 12, 2012 16:11:09 GMT -5
::According to the author, yes you are damaging your child for life if they don't get enough sleep as a baby.::
All things in relation to one another. My kid is going to be fucked up enough having me as a father that the amount of sleep they got as a baby won't even factor in.
I'm already pushing the name "Tyson Ceratops (insert last name)" onto my wife if we have 2 boys. Boy #1 would be "Tre Xavier (insert last name)". Girl #1 would be "Tara Dactyl (insert last name)". Sleep is going to be the least scarring thing in my childen's lives.
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susanb
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Post by susanb on Sept 12, 2012 16:12:11 GMT -5
...:::"...that I and my baby weren't woken up.":::... I smite thee, for use of selective ownership! Unless it really isn't his baby. Um, it really isn't his baby. We don't have a baby. The theoretical baby in the unreal conditional used above is 100% mine.
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Tennesseer
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Post by Tennesseer on Sept 12, 2012 16:14:06 GMT -5
Not sure if it has been mentioned but I will give it a go.
You state you don't mind if your husband goes out with his friends on occasion and he doesn/t do it often. You work and you have to be up by 0530. I assume you also have to prepare the baby for the morning and take him/her to daycare somewhere.
I would get him to agree that if he isn't home by say midnight he find somewhere else to sleep the night possibly at one of his friends' homes. His very late arrivals home disrupts yours and the baby's sleep. You have a baby and a job for which requires a good night's sleep. All you ask is that he be home by 0600 to help get the baby ready.
Failure to comply, well.... that will have to be a decision you must make.
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hoops902
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Post by hoops902 on Sept 12, 2012 16:16:33 GMT -5
::It seems that I cannot create an incentive (pos or neg) that is enough for him to change this behavior. I've tried. Which is why I am trying to understand how to let something go when it really, really pisses you off. How do you make something not piss you off anymore? ::
I think you start by understanding that the only solution which covers Scenarios A & B is basically "he does exactly what I want him to do" which means he comes home when you want, he goes out when you want, etc. There is no alternative that he can do to help solve both scenarios like staying somewhere else, just being honest about when he's coming home, etc. Then you have to look and decide if that resolution is reasonable. If you (hopefully) decide it is not then you decide what might help you with one or the other.
Personally though I think the issue sounds more like yours than his. It SOUNDS as if the issue is more about you getting back to sleep than anything else. Understand that's not his issue.
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hoops902
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Post by hoops902 on Sept 12, 2012 16:17:49 GMT -5
::I would get him to agree that if he isn't home by say midnight he find somewhere else to sleep the night possibly at one of his friends' homes. His very late arrivals home disrupts yours and the baby's sleep. You have a baby and a job for which requires a good night's sleep. All you ask is that he be home by 0600 to help get the baby ready.::
The problem is if he's not there when she rolls over/wakes up in the middle of the night, then her sleep is ruined too.
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movingforward
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Post by movingforward on Sept 12, 2012 16:19:20 GMT -5
"Personally though I think the issue sounds more like yours than his. It SOUNDS as if the issue is more about you getting back to sleep than anything else. Understand that's not his issue."
I partially agree with this; however, to me he is being completely inconsiderate. I would not be that inconsiderate to someone that I loved and would respect their feelings in regards to not wanting to feel like crap the next day.
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movingforward
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Post by movingforward on Sept 12, 2012 16:20:18 GMT -5
::I would get him to agree that if he isn't home by say midnight he find somewhere else to sleep the night possibly at one of his friends' homes. His very late arrivals home disrupts yours and the baby's sleep. You have a baby and a job for which requires a good night's sleep. All you ask is that he be home by 0600 to help get the baby ready.:: The problem is if he's not there when she rolls over/wakes up in the middle of the night, then her sleep is ruined too. But if she knew he wasn't coming home and staying with a friend then perhaps she wouldn't worry. It is because he says he will be home by X time that she worries.
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weltschmerz
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Post by weltschmerz on Sept 12, 2012 16:20:36 GMT -5
am I the only one who thinks it's unnecessary to stay out till 3-4am at anytime? Maybe I'm just an old fart (at 32) but I just can't imagine what there is to do on a weeknight that interesting outside of vegas. Evidently, you are.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 12, 2012 16:22:47 GMT -5
He gets home at 10:30pm if he doesn't work overtime. If he showers eats or changes and then goes out to meet up with friends lets say he does so by 11:00pm. You want him home by 12:30? Thats not a lot of time. Perhaps you could ask him to be home by 4:00am and that way if he gets home early you'll be happy.
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Sept 12, 2012 16:24:07 GMT -5
Okay, you haven't seen your friends for awhile so you make a night of it, a very long night. But you do know you have a spouse and a new baby and barking dogs. So have some consideration. OP, you need to pay him back and go out and spend the night out without calling and then come home and wake baby and dogs and let HIM deal with it. It's always funny how rude people don't LIke someone else pulling the same shit on them. Kind of like leaving after fifteen minutes the chronic late person. Once they get a taste of their own medicine, it's funny how it leaves a bad taste in their mouth.
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Tennesseer
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Post by Tennesseer on Sept 12, 2012 16:25:14 GMT -5
::I would get him to agree that if he isn't home by say midnight he find somewhere else to sleep the night possibly at one of his friends' homes. His very late arrivals home disrupts yours and the baby's sleep. You have a baby and a job for which requires a good night's sleep. All you ask is that he be home by 0600 to help get the baby ready.:: The problem is if he's not there when she rolls over/wakes up in the middle of the night, then her sleep is ruined too. If they both agree he finds somewhere else to sleep if he is not home by midnight and then midniight comes, she will know he will be home by 0600 and get 5 1/2 hours of sleep without worry.
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Pants
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Post by Pants on Sept 12, 2012 16:25:38 GMT -5
::It seems that I cannot create an incentive (pos or neg) that is enough for him to change this behavior. I've tried. Which is why I am trying to understand how to let something go when it really, really pisses you off. How do you make something not piss you off anymore? :: I think you start by understanding that the only solution which covers Scenarios A & B is basically "he does exactly what I want him to do" which means he comes home when you want, he goes out when you want, etc. There is no alternative that he can do to help solve both scenarios like staying somewhere else, just being honest about when he's coming home, etc. Then you have to look and decide if that resolution is reasonable. If you (hopefully) decide it is not then you decide what might help you with one or the other. Personally though I think the issue sounds more like yours than his. It SOUNDS as if the issue is more about you getting back to sleep than anything else. Understand that's not his issue. Of course you think it's my issue. I'm shocked. And yes, I do understand that the only solution, him doing exactly what I want him to do, is not going to happen. (Although I will say that it would still be my preferred solution, and I don't think midnight is crazy unreasonable, what whatever.) It's the step after that I'm not grasping so easily.
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hoops902
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Post by hoops902 on Sept 12, 2012 16:26:06 GMT -5
"Personally though I think the issue sounds more like yours than his. It SOUNDS as if the issue is more about you getting back to sleep than anything else. Understand that's not his issue." I partially agree with this; however, to me he is being completely inconsiderate. I would not be that inconsiderate to someone that I loved and would respect their feelings in regards to not wanting to feel like crap the next day. He works a different shift. He shouldn't have to be on HER schedule just because she has a problem sleeping if he's not there. I'm just saying people are making a lot of different argument, but OP is basically admitting that the real issue is she just has trouble falling back asleep. If he decides to sleep during the day because of his different shift I don't think she should be required to rush home throughout the day so that she can be there in case he wakes up. She shouldn't be on-call to answer her phone all day if he has some irrational worry about her. I don't see what's inconsiderate about what he's doing. He does it rarely, and the only real solution to OP's problem is that her husband does exactly what she wants him to do. Other "compromises" suggested in the thread don't work because they don't address what her actual problem is.
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hoops902
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Post by hoops902 on Sept 12, 2012 16:27:35 GMT -5
::If they both agree he finds somewhere else to sleep if he is not home by midnight and then midniight comes, she will know he will be home by 0600 and get 5 1/2 hours of sleep without worry::
OP hasn't said that. OP has said if she wakes up and he's not there she has an irrational fear.
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Tennesseer
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Post by Tennesseer on Sept 12, 2012 16:28:38 GMT -5
"Personally though I think the issue sounds more like yours than his. It SOUNDS as if the issue is more about you getting back to sleep than anything else. Understand that's not his issue." I partially agree with this; however, to me he is being completely inconsiderate. I would not be that inconsiderate to someone that I loved and would respect their feelings in regards to not wanting to feel like crap the next day. The 'problem' as I see it he works second shift and gets off at 2230. By midnight he has only been off work for 1 1/2 hours. Not an awful lot of time to unwind from work. Second and third shift workers live in a different time world that first shift folks. I don't begrudge the husband some time off after work. The problem is the wife needs sleep and so does the baby. The wife and husband need to come to some type of compromise which is a win-win for all.
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hoops902
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Post by hoops902 on Sept 12, 2012 16:29:05 GMT -5
::and I don't think midnight is crazy unreasonable, what whatever.) ::
I assume you get off at 5:00. Do you think it's crazy unreasonable if your husband sets a curfew for you 1.5 hours later. 6:30. And you are then on lockdown in the house the rest of the night? I would find that unreasonable.
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Pants
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Post by Pants on Sept 12, 2012 16:29:09 GMT -5
He gets home at 10:30pm if he doesn't work overtime. If he showers eats or changes and then goes out to meet up with friends lets say he does so by 11:00pm. You want him home by 12:30? Thats not a lot of time. Perhaps you could ask him to be home by 4:00am and that way if he gets home early you'll be happy. He goes straight from work out. So from 9 - 12:30. Also, I misspoke - he normally gets home at 9:30 if he doens't work overtime, just so noone thinks he has a 90 minute commute.
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Chocolate Lover
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Post by Chocolate Lover on Sept 12, 2012 16:30:01 GMT -5
::It seems that I cannot create an incentive (pos or neg) that is enough for him to change this behavior. I've tried. Which is why I am trying to understand how to let something go when it really, really pisses you off. How do you make something not piss you off anymore? :: I think you start by understanding that the only solution which covers Scenarios A & B is basically "he does exactly what I want him to do" which means he comes home when you want, he goes out when you want, etc. There is no alternative that he can do to help solve both scenarios like staying somewhere else, just being honest about when he's coming home, etc. Then you have to look and decide if that resolution is reasonable. If you (hopefully) decide it is not then you decide what might help you with one or the other. Personally though I think the issue sounds more like yours than his. It SOUNDS as if the issue is more about you getting back to sleep than anything else. Understand that's not his issue. Of course you think it's my issue. I'm shocked. And yes, I do understand that the only solution, him doing exactly what I want him to do, is not going to happen. (Although I will say that it would still be my preferred solution, and I don't think midnight is crazy unreasonable, what whatever.) It's the step after that I'm not grasping so easily.You figure out how to let it go or you don't. Maybe he can do something that will help, like text you at midnight and say it's gonna be later, go to sleep I'm fine. Would that be better or worse than waking up and wondering if he's dead in a ditch somewhere? You have to not get mad when he texts that or it won't work. I say text because I find that less disturbing to my sleep than a conversation on the phone.
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weltschmerz
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Post by weltschmerz on Sept 12, 2012 16:30:12 GMT -5
The issue with coming home in the middle of the night is twofold: Scenario A, I wake up, he's not home, I panic despite the fact that I know it's entirely irrational. I am then awake until he picks up his phone or gets home, at which point the panic turns to anger that he has done this, AGAIN, and I still get no sleep. -------------------- Why are you panicking? If he says he's coming home at midnight (which makes no sense, seeing how how only gets off work at 10:30), why can't you just expect him home at 04:30, as per his pattern? What would you do if he did shift work that made him come home at 04:30 every night? Divorce him? Some people have called it immature, but couples shouldn't have to live in each others' pockets and have every right to hang with their friends from time to time. He could do it and you could do it, too. You may not want to, but you can't begrudge him if he would have no problem with you going out. When I was married, we encouraged each other to pursue separate interests. I wanted him to go out with his friends and I would take off on vacation for a week or two while he watched the baby. Worked for us.
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Pants
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Post by Pants on Sept 12, 2012 16:30:24 GMT -5
::and I don't think midnight is crazy unreasonable, what whatever.) :: I assume you get off at 5:00. Do you think it's crazy unreasonable if your husband sets a curfew for you 1.5 hours later. 6:30. And you are then on lockdown in the house the rest of the night? I would find that unreasonable. See above, 12:30 would be 3.5 hours.
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Tennesseer
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Post by Tennesseer on Sept 12, 2012 16:31:58 GMT -5
::If they both agree he finds somewhere else to sleep if he is not home by midnight and then midniight comes, she will know he will be home by 0600 and get 5 1/2 hours of sleep without worry:: OP hasn't said that. OP has said if she wakes up and he's not there she has an irrational fear. Then she must deal with her irrational fear. If she agrees he should not come home if it is after midnight (but get home after 0530 when she wakes up) then she must also accept her part of the deal. A phone call by the husband at midnight saying he is staying out later would be nice.
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hoops902
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Post by hoops902 on Sept 12, 2012 16:33:13 GMT -5
::It's the step after that I'm not grasping so easily.::
I think you need to start by figuring out what you want that is reasonable. Is it easier for you to deal with him being out if you know he'll be out all night? In which case maybe you need to stop having any kind of timetable and just understand he'll be home when he's home. Is it the barking dogs you'd like to stop? In which case maybe he can stay at a friend's place.
Just because you can't get what you actually want doesn't mean you can't alleviate SOME of the situation. You just probably can't win the entire thing.
If it were me I think it would help to view the request your'e making on him as if he made the same request on you, adjusted for the differences in work shift. You're asking him to be on lockdown 1.5 hours after his shift ends.
Or make a list of the things that annoy you and a list of things he does you appreciate (like sleeping on the couch on late nights, getting up early to help with the baby even though he's working a late shift, etc).
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