NastyWoman
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Post by NastyWoman on Aug 18, 2012 13:49:05 GMT -5
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Aug 18, 2012 14:02:37 GMT -5
been saying this over and over again for years. nobody listens: The first year of any incoming president term is saddled—for better or for worse—with the budget set by the president whom immediately precedes the new occupant of the White House. Indeed, not only was the 2009 budget the property of George W. Bush—and passed by the 2008 Congress—it was in effect four months before Barack Obama took the oath of office.
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Tennesseer
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Post by Tennesseer on Aug 18, 2012 14:07:15 GMT -5
To whet the posters' appetite to open the link, here's the opening few bits: Who Is The Smallest Government Spender Since Eisenhower? Would You Believe It's Barack Obama?It’s enough to make even the most ardent Obama cynic scratch his head in confusion. Amidst all the cries of Barack Obama being the most prolific big government spender the nation has ever suffered, Marketwatch is reporting that our president has actually been tighter with a buck than any United States president since Dwight D. Eisenhower. Who knew? Check out the chart –
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fairlycrazy23
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Post by fairlycrazy23 on Aug 18, 2012 14:17:40 GMT -5
If you think fire breathing fiscal conservatives where happy with Bush, I think you would be mistaken.
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NastyWoman
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Post by NastyWoman on Aug 18, 2012 14:24:34 GMT -5
Not for one thing or another but according to this chart he was more frugal than Reagan in his first four years. Oh, and anyone notice that other freely spending democrat in the lineup? You ask me we should stick with Democrats if we want to get out of this debt hole created by...drum roll... those financial conservative republicans
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Post by Deleted on Aug 18, 2012 14:25:57 GMT -5
Well done, but this is no surprise to me...you also have to take into account the revenue coming in. Here is the thing; the Bush tax cuts have taken away a trillion in tax revenue (lowest tax rates in more than 80 years). The thought was that if there was a surplus, congress would find ways to spend it. The wars in Iraq and Afghanistan are adding up to trillions…by the way, this fiscal conservative from Wisconsin called Paul Ryan voted in favor of all of these measures…and now he complains about deficits and debts?.
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cereb
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Post by cereb on Aug 18, 2012 15:12:46 GMT -5
I will be surprised if you see any of the usual suspects near this thread.
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NastyWoman
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Post by NastyWoman on Aug 18, 2012 15:31:20 GMT -5
I will be surprised if you see any of the usual suspects near this thread. Yes they seem to be somewhat cowardly when the numbers don't do their way???
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cme1201
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Post by cme1201 on Aug 18, 2012 15:35:09 GMT -5
The President has zero nada none no input on the Federal Budget, he can and normally does place a blue print Before Congress of what he would like, it is Congress responsibility ONLY to create, Apportion and fund Federal programs, Bush - Obama - Clinton - HW Bush - Reagan etc do not create budgets only congress.
Wanna blame people blame the correct people a very shitty congress for many many many years.
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NastyWoman
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Post by NastyWoman on Aug 18, 2012 15:43:14 GMT -5
The President has zero nada none no input on the Federal Budget, he can and normally does place a blue print Before Congress of what he would like, it is Congress responsibility ONLY to create, Apportion and fund Federal programs, Bush - Obama - Clinton - HW Bush - Reagan etc do not create budgets only congress. Wanna blame people blame the correct people a very shitty congress for many many many years. Oh, so the big spender president that we need to vote out of office is all of a sudden innocent? He either is responsible for the deficit or he is not. Take your pick. Just don't flip-flop as the mood strikes you.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Aug 18, 2012 15:43:49 GMT -5
The President has zero nada none no input on the Federal Budget, he can and normally does place a blue print Before Congress of what he would like, it is Congress responsibility ONLY to create, Apportion and fund Federal programs, Bush - Obama - Clinton - HW Bush - Reagan etc do not create budgets only congress. Wanna blame people blame the correct people a very shitty congress for many many many years. the president has no say in where discretionary spending goes? the president doesn't set national priorities? the president has no ability to veto expensive legislation?
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NastyWoman
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Post by NastyWoman on Aug 18, 2012 15:52:41 GMT -5
The President has zero nada none no input on the Federal Budget, he can and normally does place a blue print Before Congress of what he would like, it is Congress responsibility ONLY to create, Apportion and fund Federal programs, Bush - Obama - Clinton - HW Bush - Reagan etc do not create budgets only congress. Wanna blame people blame the correct people a very shitty congress for many many many years. the president has no say in where discretionary spending goes? the president doesn't set national priorities? the president has no ability to veto expensive legislation? It must be somewhere in the constitution CME: he can only do good things for the country IF he is a republican and whatever he doesn't accomplish is the fault of those evil Dems. And for a Dem president: if something good happens it is because the Repubs, made sure it did, if it is not so good it is all his fault. Now if I could just manage to find that secret part of the constitution I could read up on it and become educated as well!
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Post by Deleted on Aug 18, 2012 16:09:45 GMT -5
Message deleted by Willing Sniper.
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Tennesseer
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Post by Tennesseer on Aug 18, 2012 16:12:10 GMT -5
I will be surprised if you see any of the usual suspects near this thread. Yes they seem to be somewhat cowardly when the numbers don't do their way??? joss-to be fair, weekends on P&M can be and are normally slow. Most activity on P&M is Monday through Friday during local business hours.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 18, 2012 16:13:27 GMT -5
Here are the average spending increases per year in raw dollars (not adjusted for inflation) in descending order by president:
Carter 1977 1981 16.4 Nixon 1969 1975 13.5 Johnson 1964 1969 11.0 George W. Bush 2001 2009 10.2 Reagan 1981 1989 8.6 Kennedy 1961 1964 7.1 George H.W. Bush 1989 1993 5.8 Clinton 1993 2001 4.0 Eisenhower 1953 1961 3.6 Obama 2009 2013 1.4
So, using raw dollars, Obama did oversee the lowest annual increases in spending of any president in 60 years.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 18, 2012 16:14:47 GMT -5
Here are the results using inflation-adjusted figures:
Johnson 1964 -1969 6.3 George W. Bush 2001-2009 5.9 Kennedy 1961-1964 4.7 Carter 1977 -1981 4.2 Nixon 1969 -1975 3.0 Reagan 1981-1989 2.7 George H.W. Bush 1989 -1993 1.8 Clinton 1993 -2001 1.5 Obama 2009 -2013 -0.1 Eisenhower 1953 -1961 -0.5 So, using inflation-adjusted dollars, Obama had the second-lowest increase -- in fact, he actually presided over a decrease once inflation is taken into account.
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henryclay
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Post by henryclay on Aug 18, 2012 16:29:22 GMT -5
Now there's a zinger!!
I'm reminded of somethng I heard a short while ago. It went something like, , , ,"If you think you built something, , , , you didn't build that , , , , somebody else made that happen . . . "
It escapes me who said it, but he was famous , , , , and I remember he had big ears.
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fairlycrazy23
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Post by fairlycrazy23 on Aug 18, 2012 16:32:16 GMT -5
I wish we would get away from the DemVsRep, and focus on the fact that the federal government spends far too much money on things it really has no authority for. It didn't start with Obama and doesn't really look like it is going to stop no matter who is elected next.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 18, 2012 16:35:13 GMT -5
Sheesh!
From the transcript: Somebody invested in roads and bridges. If you’ve got a business — you didn’t build that. Somebody else made that happen.
Don't be dishonest just because you dislike him, it's childish. Take it in context.
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weltschmerz
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Post by weltschmerz on Aug 18, 2012 16:53:49 GMT -5
Hi Willing! Welcome to this board. How on earth did you happen upon it?
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cme1201
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Post by cme1201 on Aug 18, 2012 17:07:27 GMT -5
The President has zero nada none no input on the Federal Budget, he can and normally does place a blue print Before Congress of what he would like, it is Congress responsibility ONLY to create, Apportion and fund Federal programs, Bush - Obama - Clinton - HW Bush - Reagan etc do not create budgets only congress. Wanna blame people blame the correct people a very shitty congress for many many many years. Oh, so the big spender president that we need to vote out of office is all of a sudden innocent? He either is responsible for the deficit or he is not. Take your pick. Just don't flip-flop as the mood strikes you. 1. I have never called him a big spender president. 2. I will not and have not voted big 2 in the last or any upcoming Presidential election.
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mmhmm
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Post by mmhmm on Aug 18, 2012 17:10:26 GMT -5
Welcome aboard, Willing Sniper. I remember you from days past.
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cme1201
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Post by cme1201 on Aug 18, 2012 17:17:52 GMT -5
The President has zero nada none no input on the Federal Budget, he can and normally does place a blue print Before Congress of what he would like, it is Congress responsibility ONLY to create, Apportion and fund Federal programs, Bush - Obama - Clinton - HW Bush - Reagan etc do not create budgets only congress. Wanna blame people blame the correct people a very shitty congress for many many many years. the president has no say in where discretionary spending goes? No, discretionary spending is developed through the appropriations commetties of Congress, National lawmakers determine how and what is spent not the President.the president doesn't set national priorities? As we see with Budgets sent from the Office of the President, he can say that this is what I would like to see happen he does not get a say that it is this way and this way only. The President has 2 choices when it comes to the Federal Budget that gets passed from Congress pass and sign or veto. Seeing as one has not been submitted that has been reconciled from both houses we haven't see the president make a stand on any real budget, just continuing resolutionsthe president has no ability to veto expensive legislation? Yes if he feels that he can get passed veing overridden, seeing as how no budget has been passed he has not had the ability to determine if he has such power
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Post by Deleted on Aug 18, 2012 17:43:25 GMT -5
"The first year of any incoming president term is saddled—for better or for worse—with the budget set by the president whom immediately precedes the new occupant of the White House. Indeed, not only was the 2009 budget the property of George W. Bush—and passed by the 2008 Congress—it was in effect four months before Barack Obama took the oath of office."
This is only about half true. Obama signed at least part of the 2009 budget into law himself. The FY 2009 budget was $400B larger than what GWB requested. And in addition, there is plenty of "off budget" spending, decisions made after Obama took office.
Second, the TARP loans, which counted as deficit under Bush were (and continue to be) repaid under Obama.
And lastly, the current administration is enjoying very low interest rates which make debt payments smaller. That masks the increase in spending in other areas.
Any of you want to have this debate with me?
ETA: Even with adjusted numbers, spending growth under Obama still would not put him near the top of the list. Although, since stimulus is supposed to be temporary, spending under Obama should be declining back to previous levels. Should be even lower with low interest rates.
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b2r
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Post by b2r on Aug 18, 2012 17:46:49 GMT -5
Date ------------------Total Public Debt Outstanding 01/19/2001 ---------------5,727,776,738,304.64 Date ------------------Total Public Debt Outstanding 01/20/2009---------------10,626,877,048,913.08 Date -------------------Total Public Debt Outstanding 08/18/2012 ---------------15,957,959,655,187.23 www.treasurydirect.gov/NP/BPDLogin?application=npObama says adding $4 trillion to debt is unpatriotic. President Obama: A One Term Proposition
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Post by Deleted on Aug 18, 2012 18:13:52 GMT -5
And one more thing.... In addition to maintaining the spending increases, Obama (and Congress) have continued to "stimulate" the economy via tax cut extensions that go well beyond the Bush tax cuts (i.e. Social Security tax cuts). These cuts may not be spending increases, but they still directly increase the federal debt, and also have put the entire SS program in jeopardy. We're now faced with people who will get less out of SS than they contributed.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Aug 18, 2012 18:21:36 GMT -5
the president has no say in where discretionary spending goes? No, discretionary spending is developed through the appropriations commetties of Congress, National lawmakers determine how and what is spent not the President.the president doesn't set national priorities? As we see with Budgets sent from the Office of the President, he can say that this is what I would like to see happen he does not get a say that it is this way and this way only. The President has 2 choices when it comes to the Federal Budget that gets passed from Congress pass and sign or veto. Seeing as one has not been submitted that has been reconciled from both houses we haven't see the president make a stand on any real budget, just continuing resolutionsthe president has no ability to veto expensive legislation? Yes if he feels that he can get passed veing overridden, seeing as how no budget has been passed he has not had the ability to determine if he has such poweri see. so it doesn't matter what the president says or does, it is all congresses' fault. is that about it? so, if Obama declared war on Iran tomorrow, the cost of that would be congresses fault? if he announced a presidential initiative to pave every major highway tomorrow, that would be their fault too? from where i sit, the president has more than nothing to do with how budgets are constructed, government, maintained, and balanced. but not from yours?
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Aug 18, 2012 18:22:48 GMT -5
Date ------------------Total Public Debt Outstanding 01/19/2001 ---------------5,727,776,738,304.64 Date ------------------Total Public Debt Outstanding 01/20/2009---------------10,626,877,048,913.08 the budget year doesn't end in January.
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cereb
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Post by cereb on Aug 18, 2012 18:32:32 GMT -5
Date ------------------Total Public Debt Outstanding 01/19/2001 ---------------5,727,776,738,304.64 Date ------------------Total Public Debt Outstanding 01/20/2009---------------10,626,877,048,913.08 the budget year doesn't end in January. dj, let that fish go and save yourself! I am begging you! LOL!
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Don Perignon
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Post by Don Perignon on Aug 18, 2012 18:41:26 GMT -5
Yes they seem to be somewhat cowardly when the numbers don't do their way??? joss-to be fair, weekends on P&M can be and are normally slow. Most activity on P&M is Monday through Friday during local business hours. Some people that post here only get custody of their offspring on weekends and alternate holidays. ;D
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