Firebird
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Post by Firebird on Jun 4, 2012 15:48:37 GMT -5
QQ, I loved that article. My BFF (also an introvert) and I had a theory on that... the energy extroverts gain through social interaction is vampirically siphoned from us introverts. Which is why we find all the interaction so draining.
Frankly, DH and I are pretty big introverts too and having company is kind of a strain on our mutual resources. My parents are the easiest guests in the entire world, and I still feel drained after hosting them for a meal.
I feel like this weekend could potentially have gone better if we were doing something we all found enjoyable. Taking people to the city is *very, very, very* taxing for me. If I could do something differently (besides not hosting them in our house), I would have been more honest about that and said something like, "I'd be happy to take you to the train station so you can go into the city and explore - I'd personally recommend X, Y and Z places - and pick you up when you get back but I won't be able to show you around myself."
It would have been so incredibly simple to say something like that and probably made my stress levels go down exponentially. In the future, I need to have more respect for my own limitations - particularly physical ones when I'm pregnant. I was not up for that much walking around the city, I knew that, and I did it anyway. Bad decision.
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Peace Of Mind
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Post by Peace Of Mind on Jun 4, 2012 15:54:04 GMT -5
Great article, QQ!! How weird! DH and I both are outgoing introverts. But he fakes it better than I do when somebody isn't liked. They'd NEVER know with him. But I'm much better at parties and groups and can talk to anybody. But then want a day to myself after. Hell, who am I kidding? I want a month as long as I have you guys!
<<changes saying under picture>>
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quotequeen
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Post by quotequeen on Jun 4, 2012 15:55:41 GMT -5
And then maybe I wouldn't have two broken champagne glasses. Did they offer to pay for them? Sheesh. That's something that should go on the list too, although it thankfully didn't come up this weekend If you break something, you buy a replacement. That's just common courtesy. Yes, she did offer, and they are supposedly in the mail. Actually a regular glass was broken too, but I'm not certain whether that was her fault or DH's. That one wouldn't be worth replacing since it was part of some $10 set of 8 or something. I really wasn't as annoyed about the glasses as about the fact that she wouldn't sit still and ignored us when we told her not to do things. The fact that you think you're being helpful doesn't mean you actually are. You might not be aware that cleaner X can damage surface Y, or whatever.
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8 Bit WWBG
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Post by 8 Bit WWBG on Jun 4, 2012 16:10:19 GMT -5
...:::"DON'T read a freaking book during a MEAL that you're eating with your host(s). I find this so INCREDIBLY, FREAKING rude. You're supposed to be engaging socially. I read while I'm eating all the time, but only when it's just me eating - and MAYBE DH. Anyone else, you put the goddamn book down and have a conversation.":::...
OTOH, it could be refreshing to not feel you are obligated to make pointless small talk. But either way, both parties need to be on board.
...:::"All of post #21 (too long to quote)":::...
There are some people who interpret any response other than "no" as "ask again" or "ask differently".
...:::"It's funny, though, how you can feel like you know someone so well and then still be taken totally by surprise when you meet them in person.":::...
Because you may not have seen someone's "living habits" even someone you know in person. People are very different when they first wake up in the morning than after they've gotten going and out of the house.
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Firebird
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Post by Firebird on Jun 4, 2012 16:21:57 GMT -5
OTOH, it could be refreshing to not feel you are obligated to make pointless small talk. But either way, both parties need to be on board.
At that particular point in the weekend, yes, I was somewhat relieved that I didn't have to engage in really awkward socializing anymore and I didn't feel at all guilty about reading my own book in front of them. But I still considered it extremely rude. That one happens to be a pet peeve of mine, though. I don't even like it when DH reads when we're supposed to be sharing a meal together (at a restaurant, at home we both do it and that's cool).
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Formerly SK
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Post by Formerly SK on Jun 4, 2012 16:35:09 GMT -5
This thread has reminded me I've been wanting to recommend a book to this board as I know there are quite a few introverts here: www.amazon.com/Quiet-Power-Introverts-World-Talking/dp/0307352145/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1338845213&sr=8-1I don't think it would be exaggerating to say that it has fundamentally changed how I view myself. It's almost like being a closet gay in a homophobic Ohio community and then discovering San Fransisco (excuse the stereotypes). I guess I just never realized how much subtle pressure there is to be an extrovert in our culture and the affect that can have on a person's identity. And no, the book doesn't bash extroverts - it just perfectly illustrates all the good there is about introverts. And in a world where, for example, people are regularly red-shirting their Kindergartners because their social skills are immature (ie they aren't extrovert enough) I think more people need to be accepting and embracing of their true personality. Off my soapbox now. But read the book!!!
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midjd
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Post by midjd on Jun 4, 2012 17:24:24 GMT -5
Thanks for the recommendation, skinnykids - I'm definitely going to check that one out!
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Firebird
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Post by Firebird on Jun 4, 2012 18:27:04 GMT -5
Those are all good pointers Firebrand. Personally, i really do not like to stay in anybody's home, even my sister. When i visit overnight, i always stay in a hotel. I missed this before but I like the moniker! It sounds painful but cool
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Post by Deleted on Jun 4, 2012 18:48:33 GMT -5
LOL! My bad! Sorry! But, i do kinda like it!
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TheOtherMe
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Post by TheOtherMe on Jun 4, 2012 19:26:18 GMT -5
I tend to stay in hotels when I visit also. I'm just more comfortable and I can be "me" when I'm not with the people I'm visiting. I also don't feel so rude about doing things with people other than the person I might be staying with.
Until recent years, my mother would never let me do much to help her. She's had some serious illnesses, so now she will. However, it would be an insult to my father if he didn't pay for all the meals. He only tips $1 no matter how big the bill so I try very hard to sneak back to the table and leave a proper tip.
I went to the UK for a big concert 4 years ago. We had a big time meet up planned from a forum about the artist. A local planned the party and convinced five of us to stay by her. I did room with somebody on the trip, but it was somebody with whom I have roomed numerous times while following this musician around since 1990. We get along just fine.
Two of the others each got their own room at the hotel where we stayed and one person was invited to stay with the host. After seeing where the host lived, I was so happy I was not the person invited to stay there. It was dirty, not cluttered. She had supposedly cleaned for two days before we arrived. You could hardly walk up the stairs to get to the bathroom. All the upstairs doors were closed and she wouldn't let us in the kitchen.
We wasted so much time and money getting to the main attractions that we all agreed we'd never, ever do that again.
The party went great and it was a good trip. It just would have been better if we hadn't let ourselves be talked in to staying out by her.
The hotel rooms didn't have phones or clocks for a wake up call. I had the only cell phone that had a working SIM card and it didn't have a clock. They came and knocked on our door at the time we told them we wanted to get up.
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Cookies Galore
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Post by Cookies Galore on Jun 4, 2012 20:20:16 GMT -5
wow, that's incredibly trusting of you. Never in a million years would DH be okay with me bringing strangers home, let alone allowing them to stay the night. I've only met one YMer/PBer, and it was for a couple of hours at a marketplace. Hey! That's me! ;D I only ever slept over beerwench's. Boy was that an adventure! But I promise I am the nicest house guest! I don't care whose house I'm over, I will at least clear the dinner plates.
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swamp
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Post by swamp on Jun 4, 2012 20:23:49 GMT -5
wow, that's incredibly trusting of you. Never in a million years would DH be okay with me bringing strangers home, let alone allowing them to stay the night. I've only met one YMer/PBer, and it was for a couple of hours at a marketplace. Hey! That's me! ;D I only ever slept over beerwench's. Boy was that an adventure! But I promise I am the nicest house guest! I don't care whose house I'm over, I will at least clear the dinner plates. It was an adventure because you slept with me
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Firebird
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Post by Firebird on Jun 4, 2012 20:26:11 GMT -5
Ooh la la!
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raeoflyte
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Post by raeoflyte on Jun 5, 2012 8:19:26 GMT -5
QQ--I phrased to my issues, which are probably much different than what you're talking about. I shouldn't have quoted you to be clearer.
My issue is when I offer to do dishes, and specifically ask if it matters how the dishwasher is loaded (because I get it that people have preferences) and am told it doesn't matter, just let me do it for fraks sake! Don't give me a task, and then redo it because it isn't exactly the same as how you would do it. It would be better to just insist on not having anyone help clean up at that point.
It seems the norm now that hosts do not accept help to set up or clean up after a meal, and I wish I understood when that became common (or has it always been and I just grew up in a twilight zone bubble). At some point people do start assume that hosts don't want help, and they stop even offering.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 5, 2012 8:24:34 GMT -5
wow, that's incredibly trusting of you. Never in a million years would DH be okay with me bringing strangers home, let alone allowing them to stay the night. I've only met one YMer/PBer, and it was for a couple of hours at a marketplace. Hey! That's me! ;D I only ever slept over beerwench's. Boy was that an adventure! But I promise I am the nicest house guest! I don't care whose house I'm over, I will at least clear the dinner plates. and it's about to be you again! ;D That reminds me, I need to look up the Temple tickets. and yeah, I don't get not even offering to help. I only do that at my mom's and that's because the kitchen is tiny and she already has enough kitchen help.
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quotequeen
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Post by quotequeen on Jun 5, 2012 11:16:35 GMT -5
It seems the norm now that hosts do not accept help to set up or clean up after a meal, and I wish I understood when that became common (or has it always been and I just grew up in a twilight zone bubble). At some point people do start assume that hosts don't want help, and they stop even offering. My recollection growing up is that whenever somebody would offer to help after the meal the host's response was "just leave it" or people were allowed to bring the dishes into the kitchen and hand them to the host who was at the sink/put them on the counter, but that was it. I'm just talking about dinner parties here, we were almost never overnight guests.
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8 Bit WWBG
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Post by 8 Bit WWBG on Jun 5, 2012 13:38:16 GMT -5
I can see how the offer itself, not the help is the important factor. Disingenuous or not, whenever people complain about this, its seldom "she didn't help clean up", its more often "she didn't even OFFER to help clean up".
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Firebird
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Post by Firebird on Jun 5, 2012 13:44:56 GMT -5
I can see how the offer itself, not the help is the important factor. Disingenuous or not, whenever people complain about this, its seldom "she didn't help clean up", its more often "she didn't even OFFER to help clean up". That's exactly how it is for me. Many of my complaints about the weekend boil down to "they didn't even offer." Would I have let them pay for every meal? No, of course not. Would I have let them clean up the entire kitchen while I sat and watched? No, of course not. Would I have taken them up on paying for each gallon of gas? No, of course not. But not even OFFERING to do ANY of those things really rubbed me the wrong way. We all hate the entitlement mentality, and that's exactly how it came across - like these things were just their due for showing up and gracing us with their presence.
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8 Bit WWBG
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Post by 8 Bit WWBG on Jun 5, 2012 14:24:27 GMT -5
How similar are your means? You said they save a very significant percentage of their income. But is that only because they mooch off others, and sit at home doing nothing? Are they the types who have loads of money in the bank, but a very miserable boring existence?
Its certainly tough when means are different. I have my limits on how much I'm willing to spend on something. I wouldn't turn down a freebie per se, but I might not elect that same level of spend on my own dollar in all cases.
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Firebird
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Post by Firebird on Jun 5, 2012 16:21:16 GMT -5
How similar are your means? You said they save a very significant percentage of their income. But is that only because they mooch off others, and sit at home doing nothing? Are they the types who have loads of money in the bank, but a very miserable boring existence?
I'm starting to get that idea, haha. Actually, I do think they live simply by choice. But yeah, it seems that they also save money by not spending on really much of anything. I commend them for the fact that they sure have the frugal thing down pat, and I know that they are generous in certain well-planned ways but I think there's something to be said for having a decent fun budget, especially when on vacation.
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Works4me
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Post by Works4me on Jun 5, 2012 19:28:42 GMT -5
Firebird - To me there is a huge difference between being frugal, being cheap, and being a mooch. IMHO it sounds to me like last week's guests crossed the line from frugal past cheap and well into the mooch category. That may be why they lack social skills - in RL most people don't hang out with moochers.
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Firebird
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Post by Firebird on Jun 5, 2012 19:33:37 GMT -5
I'd agree, sarahjese. Also, Tara the Wonder Dog is quite cute
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Works4me
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Someone responded to your personal ad - a German Shepherd named Tara wants to have you for dinner...
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Post by Works4me on Jun 5, 2012 19:38:25 GMT -5
Tara says thank you very much. Actually that is a stock picture I found on line. Real Tara is 9 years old and is an 85 pound female German Shepherd rescue that is even cuter. My former fiance got her when we broke up almost 8 years ago. We stayed friends and I adopted her about 2 years ago when he was transfered to the city and she is my baby now.
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Post by maryjane on Jun 5, 2012 19:52:43 GMT -5
Late to the party here, but I only am a house-guest/host with people I am super close to. It isn't really a money thing, but a I love you so much and don't get to see you and don't want to waste any of our time together driving thing. I would be really bummed if my mom or closest friends wanted to stay in a hotel. Being single and having a spare bedroom probably has a lot to do with this perspective, but it is interesting to find out just how many people don't enjoy hosting/being a houseguest.
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TheOtherMe
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Post by TheOtherMe on Jun 5, 2012 20:20:08 GMT -5
My parents got very upset when I moved from my 3 bedroom house to a much smaller 2 bedroom condo. Bedrooms were so small and I had purchased a computer. I sold the extra bed, so no place for them to sleep. I think they took it personally, but there really was no room for the computer desk I had purchased when I had the house and was working from home.
The desk did not fit in the living/dining room area of a 900 sq ft condo. After putting it and a few other things in the second bedroom, there wasn't room for a bed.
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Firebird
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Post by Firebird on Jun 6, 2012 11:22:13 GMT -5
Update: She sent me an email this morning (or late last night) which said "I just wanted to say we had a great time and were so thankful for you taking the time to host us and shuttle us around, not to mention treating us to lunch (and amazing shrimp!) and generally spending on milk, gas, parking, etc - we're sending a thank you gift to you but it might take awhile since [work] is a little hectic for me! But we really did appreciate it!" So at least I know they noticed and it's nice that she took the time to thank us. I'm also impressed that they plan to send a thank you gift. Only fair to let you guys know how they redeemed themselves somewhat
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AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP
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Post by AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP on Jun 6, 2012 11:47:20 GMT -5
I have found that it is useful to be very clear about everyone's expectations BEFORE the fun starts. I used to be afraid to clearly communicate with people, or nip things in the bud BEFORE I'm upset with others-- and they don't take it nearly as badly as I feared they might.
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AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP
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Post by AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP on Jun 6, 2012 11:51:58 GMT -5
Update: She sent me an email this morning (or late last night) which said "I just wanted to say we had a great time and were so thankful for you taking the time to host us and shuttle us around, not to mention treating us to lunch (and amazing shrimp!) and generally spending on milk, gas, parking, etc - we're sending a thank you gift to you but it might take awhile since [work] is a little hectic for me! But we really did appreciate it!" So at least I know they noticed and it's nice that she took the time to thank us. I'm also impressed that they plan to send a thank you gift. Only fair to let you guys know how they redeemed themselves somewhat I'm not surprised. I'm sure they had NO idea how you felt. My mom is famous for never saying NO to anyone and later being upset with THEM. I've never understood it.
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Wisconsin Beth
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Post by Wisconsin Beth on Jun 6, 2012 12:03:35 GMT -5
Update: She sent me an email this morning (or late last night) which said "I just wanted to say we had a great time and were so thankful for you taking the time to host us and shuttle us around, not to mention treating us to lunch (and amazing shrimp!) and generally spending on milk, gas, parking, etc - we're sending a thank you gift to you but it might take awhile since [work] is a little hectic for me! But we really did appreciate it!" So at least I know they noticed and it's nice that she took the time to thank us. I'm also impressed that they plan to send a thank you gift. Only fair to let you guys know how they redeemed themselves somewhat Maybe they lurk here! hehe
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Firebird
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Post by Firebird on Jun 6, 2012 12:03:39 GMT -5
My mom is famous for never saying NO to anyone and later being upset with THEM. I've never understood it.
Yeah, I really hate passive-aggressiveness so I agree it would have been best to be upfront with them... but that being said, exactly what was I supposed to say to them in this case? I can't think of anything I might have said in response to any of the "incidents" that doesn't sound (even in my head) either bitchy, passive-aggressive, or ridiculously micromanaging.
Most of the time when something would happen - like her reading her book when we were all out at a restaurant for a meal, or they would talk right over us in the middle of some anecdote - DH and I would just raise our eyebrows at each other like "Did that really just happen?" I have no idea what you say to a grown adult in a situation like that without sounding like you're scolding a child.
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