Rick Santorum: (EX) FRONT RUNNER!

[djAdvocate]

Feb 14, 2012 9:01:55 GMT -5 AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP said:

Feb 14, 2012 8:49:42 GMT -5 usaone said:

Latest Fox news poll

Obama 51%
Santorum 38%

Independents will never vote for Santorum.

I think you'll be surprised.

and i think i won't be. wager time?

[floridayankee]

Feb 14, 2012 10:18:57 GMT -5 AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP said:

Gary Johnson would scare the crap out of independent voters. That's #1.

I'm an independent voter. I still have lots of crap in m...oh, wait a minute....nope, it was just gas. The crap is still there.

For #2, I think that a lot of conservatives haven't figured out yet that though he is pro-choice,

So am I. Such nanny state government intrusion into private matters is a republican value, not a conservative value.

two things should not stop social conservatives from voting for a pro-choice libertarian: #1, as a libertarian- even if he had the power to do anything about it, he'd leave it to the States.

Agreed. He also is pro legalization of pot. I don't believe these issues are something a sitting POTUS can just overturn.

But they (conservatives) won't put up with his stance,...

If you mean that republicans won't put up with his stance, I agree. That was evident from the steaming pile the GOP dumped on him to shut him out.

[Deleted]

I don't think people are put in leadership because of their indivdiual views... I think they are put in leadership for their ability to effectively lead and as such accomplish something... in that you must admit Pelosi is far more effective than Boehnar can every even dream of being...

[Mkitty is pro kitty]

Well, if it isn't commonly accepted that NANCY PELOSI!!! is a far left nut, then we're screwed.

One sure sign of sanity is caps locking and putting a bunch of exclamation points after that in the middle of the sentence. You're a regular normal guy.

I mean- let's be real here for a second, a "moderate" party doesn't make the San Francisco Treat, Nancy Pelosi, speaker.

Yes, it's quite normal to obsess over someone, and don't believe them for a minute when they say your insults are childish and corny.

[diamonds]

Pelosi is eccentric, obnoxious and pushy. She blathers on and nothing makes sense. Quote: "You have to pass Obama Care before you know what's in it". Another one, "I'll make sure Gingrich doesn't become the nominee as I know some bad things about him". She is the farthest from being professional and saying she is a nut is putting it mildly. She is a loose cannon as Biden is.

[djAdvocate]

Feb 14, 2012 12:48:22 GMT -5 diamonds said:

Pelosi is eccentric, obnoxious and pushy. She blathers on and nothing makes sense. Quote: "You have to pass Obama Care before you know what's in it". Another one, "I'll make sure Gingrich doesn't become the nominee as I know some bad things about him". She is the farthest from being professional and saying she is a nut is putting it mildly. She is a loose cannon as Biden is.

i don't think anyone serving in congress is a nut. and truthfully, i kinda get tired of the label, because it instantly declares them unworthy of consideration, which is proximately false.

[reasonfreedom]

Feb 14, 2012 12:03:38 GMT -5 oped said:

I don't think people are put in leadership because of their indivdiual views... I think they are put in leadership for their ability to effectively lead and as such accomplish something... in that you must admit Pelosi is far more effective than Boehnar can every even dream of being...

I would rather not be lead than be lead into a big pile of poop.

[reasonfreedom]

Feb 14, 2012 11:32:04 GMT -5 floridayankee said:

Feb 14, 2012 10:18:57 GMT -5 AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP said:

Gary Johnson would scare the crap out of independent voters. That's #1.

I'm an independent voter. I still have lots of crap in m...oh, wait a minute....nope, it was just gas. The crap is still there.

So am I. Such nanny state government intrusion into private matters is a republican value, not a conservative value.

Agreed. He also is pro legalization of pot. I don't believe these issues are something a sitting POTUS can just overturn.

But they (conservatives) won't put up with his stance,...

If you mean that republicans won't put up with his stance, I agree. That was evident from the steaming pile the GOP dumped on him to shut him out.

I agree. I don't see how Independents would be scared of Gary Johnson when a lot of the independents vote for Ron Paul, almost the exact same policies. Then again this is coming from Paul lol.

[diamonds]

Feb 13, 2012 20:09:18 GMT -5 kgb18 said:

I don't normally comment over here, but there are very few people from my area in Pa (Pittsburgh) democrats or republicans, who think very highly of Santorum. There are a number of reasons for this.

One thing that was really a slap in the face, locally, was that he and his family never lived in the area while he was in office. He bought a house in a Pittsburgh suburb, but after he was elected he moved his family into a house in Virginia. The kids attended a cyber school, which the school district in Pennsylvania where he bought the house, had to pay most of the tuition for the kids to attend even though they weren't living in state.

Eventually the school district asked Santorum to repay the tuition. There was a whole drawn out dispute and the state (ie, the taxpayers) ended up picking up the tab.

The whole thing just hasn't sat well with a lot of people.

I'm sure the taxpayers didn't get stuck with as much as all the stupid decisions that Obama has invested in as Solyndra, plus the continuous entitlements to enable the unemployed to stay that way. Why work for minimum wage when you are making more not working?

[djAdvocate]

Feb 14, 2012 13:00:20 GMT -5 reasonfreedom said:

Feb 14, 2012 11:32:04 GMT -5 floridayankee said:

I'm an independent voter. I still have lots of crap in m...oh, wait a minute....nope, it was just gas. The crap is still there.

So am I. Such nanny state government intrusion into private matters is a republican value, not a conservative value.

Agreed. He also is pro legalization of pot. I don't believe these issues are something a sitting POTUS can just overturn.

If you mean that republicans won't put up with his stance, I agree. That was evident from the steaming pile the GOP dumped on him to shut him out.

I agree. I don't see how Independents would be scared of Gary Johnson when a lot of the independents vote for Ron Paul, almost the exact same policies. Then again this is coming from Paul lol.

i also find it a bit odd that anyone that thinks we need a clear alternative to Romney and Obama can dismiss Paul and Johnson out of hand.

[Sum Dum Gai]

I really think the republicans need to solve their identity crises. Are they the party of social conservatism or fiscal conservatism. Independents don't like social conservatives, and you can't win national elections without some independent voters. They do like fiscal conservatism, but it seems that their dislike of social conservatism takes priority.

In other words, a vehemently anti-abortion, anti-gay rights candidate, that's said some pretty odd things about birth control as well, ain't getting the independent vote. Even if he's otherwise the ideal candidate on economic issues and whatnot. To a large segment of the GOP base their stance on social issues (that really should be none of the federal governments business in the first place) is all that matters. So we keep getting these screwball nominees that aren't really electable.

In my opinion, either the GOP is going to have to get over the social conservative issues and focus on the economic, or they're going to become increasingly irrelevant as the the tea party takes the socially somewhat liberal and fiscally conservative block away from them.

I don't really care what the GOP has to do to justify changing their stance on social issues, but a party that keeps overturning Roe vs Wade, and keeping gays in the closet, as planks in the platform just won't work on a national level anymore.

[diamonds]

>>>i also find it a bit odd that anyone that thinks we need a clear alternative to Romney and Obama can dismiss Paul and Johnson out of hand>>>

I don't know about Johnson's views, but Paul wants to legalize drugs. This is morally wrong. There has to be a crackdown on the doctors that prescribe narcotics way too freely. I heard quckly on the news this AM that the makers of Vicoden and Oxycontin are being sued as there are so many drug related deaths due to over-prescribing. This has to be curtailed as the dependence has become rampant.

[resolution]

Feb 14, 2012 13:23:07 GMT -5 Sum Dum Gai said:

I really think the republicans need to solve their identity crises. Are they the party of social conservatism or fiscal conservatism. Independents don't like social conservatives, and you can't win national elections without some independent voters. They do like fiscal conservatism, but it seems that their dislike of social conservatism takes priority.

In other words, a vehemently anti-abortion, anti-gay rights candidate, that's said some pretty odd things about birth control as well, ain't getting the independent vote. Even if he's otherwise the ideal candidate on economic issues and whatnot. To a large segment of the GOP base their stance on social issues (that really should be none of the federal governments business in the first place) is all that matters. So we keep getting these screwball nominees that aren't really electable.

In my opinion, either the GOP is going to have to get over the social conservative issues and focus on the economic, or they're going to become increasingly irrelevant as the the tea party takes the socially somewhat liberal and fiscally conservative block away from them.

I don't really care what the GOP has to do to justify changing their stance on social issues, but a party that keeps overturning Roe vs Wade, and keeping gays in the closet, as planks in the platform just won't work on a national level anymore.

This. As an independent voter I voted Obama last election because Palin scared the crap out of me and I didn't trust McCain to stay alive. I have been a bit disappointed by Obama's lack of ability to resolve the gridlock in congress, which I think is due to lack of experience. My preference would be for a fiscal conservative that leaves people's personal morals alone, and doesn't pander to corporate interests. I am considering voting for Romney or Paul, but when I hear the name Santorum the first thing that pops into my head is "Rick Santorum wants your birth control." I am definitely going for Obama if he is nominated.

I think it would help the Republicans if he were nominated. Then they could clearly see if the social conservative fiscal liberal wing of the party has any appeal to the nation, and possibly move to a fiscally conservative socially neutral position for the future.

[floridayankee]

Feb 14, 2012 13:23:07 GMT -5 Sum Dum Gai said:

I really think the republicans need to solve their identity crises. Are they the party of social conservatism or fiscal conservatism. Independents don't like social conservatives, and you can't win national elections without some independent voters. They do like fiscal conservatism, but it seems that their dislike of social conservatism takes priority.

Honestly, at this point, I can handle a little baggage but mostly, I'm looking for a fiscally conservative candidate. A trillion+ dollar deficit year after year is not sustainable. We need to slow this train wreck.

In my opinion, either the GOP is going to have to get over the social conservative issues and focus on the economic, or they're going to become increasingly irrelevant as the the tea party takes the socially somewhat liberal and fiscally conservative block away from them.

Agreed. The right supports individual freedom and liberty yet, they support social engineering legislation to tell others how to live their lives. To me it is hypocritical and one of the major reasons I am an independent.

[Deleted]

Feb 14, 2012 13:46:38 GMT -5 diamonds said:

>>>i also find it a bit odd that anyone that thinks we need a clear alternative to Romney and Obama can dismiss Paul and Johnson out of hand>>>

I don't know about Johnson's views, but Paul wants to legalize drugs. This is morally wrong. There has to be a crackdown on the doctors that prescribe narcotics way too freely. I heard quckly on the news this AM that the makers of Vicoden and Oxycontin are being sued as there are so many drug related deaths due to over-prescribing. This has to be curtailed as the dependence has become rampant.

Take your words and substitute alcholol in place of drugs and we are back in 1920 again.

[Deleted]

Feb 14, 2012 12:57:46 GMT -5 reasonfreedom said:

Feb 14, 2012 12:03:38 GMT -5 oped said:

I don't think people are put in leadership because of their indivdiual views... I think they are put in leadership for their ability to effectively lead and as such accomplish something... in that you must admit Pelosi is far more effective than Boehnar can every even dream of being...

I would rather not be lead than be lead into a big pile of poop.

Why? I would think that the lead would sink to the bottom and might actually have the quickest escape route from the poop. Although I suppose that depends on the density of the poop in question.

[floridayankee]

Feb 14, 2012 13:46:38 GMT -5 diamonds said:

>>>i also find it a bit odd that anyone that thinks we need a clear alternative to Romney and Obama can dismiss Paul and Johnson out of hand>>>

I don't know about Johnson's views, but Paul wants to legalize drugs.

I'm not sure of Paul's view on drugs, but I do know that Johnson supports legalization of marijuana as well as getting the federal government out of the prohibition game and leaving drug policy to the states.

A recent Gallup poll reports that 46% of Americans now agree that marijuana should be legalized, a dramatic increase in support that reflects Americans' increased knowledge and understanding of the issue. Proposals to regulate marijuana similarly to alcohol have been considered in several states, and Governor Johnson has supported those efforts; he believes the federal government should end its prohibition mandate and allow each state to pursue its own desired policy.

www.garyjohnson2012.com/issues/drug-policy-reform

This is morally wrong.

Morally wrong to who? Honestly, I'd rather our legislators not pass legislation based on morals. What happens if we get legislation based on a set of morals that you do not agree with?

I heard quckly on the news this AM that the makers of Vicoden and Oxycontin are being sued as there are so many drug related deaths due to over-prescribing. This has to be curtailed as the dependence has become rampant.

Perscription drug abuse and marijuana are completely different issues.

[diamonds]

>>>Take your words and substitute alcholol in place of drugs and we are back in 1920 again.>>>

Wrong businessgy, it is the mixture now of narcotics, recreational drugs and alcohol. Not just one, but the deadly combo of all of these and not in moderation. Everytime we lose a celebrity they have vast amounts of drug bottles and then mix them and have a few drinks. It's called "big money" will buy anything. The Las Vegas pharmacy should never have dispensed an IV anesthetic to be used for home use in MJ's case. Consequences are his doctor is in the slammer.

[Deleted]

Feb 14, 2012 12:52:10 GMT -5 djAdvocate said:

Feb 14, 2012 12:48:22 GMT -5 diamonds said:

Pelosi is eccentric, obnoxious and pushy. She blathers on and nothing makes sense. Quote: "You have to pass Obama Care before you know what's in it". Another one, "I'll make sure Gingrich doesn't become the nominee as I know some bad things about him". She is the farthest from being professional and saying she is a nut is putting it mildly. She is a loose cannon as Biden is.

i don't think anyone serving in congress is a nut. and truthfully, i kinda get tired of the label, because it instantly declares them unworthy of consideration, which is proximately false.

It also only addresses the "nut" part of the claim. It doesn't lend any support to the "far left" part.

She supported the Patriot Act (at least initially). She opposed impeaching Bush. She supported NCLB. She opposed the premise for starting the Iraq War, but she ended up being right about that one.

She is pro-gay marriage, but that makes her a good representative of her constituency. She opposes a flag burning amendment and displaying the Ten Commandments in government buildings - which should win her libertarian cred.

Progressive, maybe. But I don't think she is the radical leftist she is characterized to be.

[floridayankee]

Feb 14, 2012 13:53:07 GMT -5 resolution said:

I am definitely going for Obama if he is nominated.

Why on earth would you vote for Obama if you're looking for a fiscally conservative candidate? Take your two party blinders off.....We will have a viable third party option this year.

[Deleted]

?? How does what the LV pharmacy does have anything to do with decriminalizing drugs?? ...

If this happens anyway.... maybe we could stop paying all that money for prisons and send a fraction of it to education/prevention instead??

[Sum Dum Gai]

Wrong businessgy, it is the mixture now of narcotics, recreational drugs and alcohol. Not just one, but the deadly combo of all of these and not in moderation.

Totally honest question here, if somebody is that determined to piss their life away do we really want the federal government spending so much time and energy trying to stop them?

Somebody that determined to drown out their life, pain, past, or whatever, with substances will always be able to find something. My 10 year old can buy markers and glue for crying out loud. I honestly see the whole prevention thing as a losing battle. Not that we shouldn't educate kids about how dangerous these substances are, but adults who are determined to get high on something will always find that something. We can take their legal booze, and they'll find moonshine. We can make certain drugs illegal, and they'll either buy them underground or abuse legal ones. Even if we could stop all the prescription abuse, and keep every single illegal drug out of the country, they'd start sniffing paint, gas, glue, or something. Eliminating ever possible intoxicant is a pipe dream.

[diamonds]

>>Morally wrong to who? Honestly, I'd rather our legislators not pass legislation based on morals. What happens if we get legislation based on a set of morals that you do not agree with?>>>

Morally to the respect of a persons life that is out of control. Too many enablers and big pharma benefiting.

[Deleted]

The thing is... legalize marijuana, and big pharma doesn't have to benefit ...

[diamonds]

Feb 14, 2012 14:20:06 GMT -5 oped said:

?? How does what the LV pharmacy does have anything to do with decriminalizing drugs?? ...

If this happens anyway.... maybe we could stop paying all that money for prisons and send a fraction of it to education/prevention instead??

It's called monitering life-threatening drugs. Simple as that.

[resolution]

Feb 14, 2012 14:20:06 GMT -5 floridayankee said:

Feb 14, 2012 13:53:07 GMT -5 resolution said:

I am definitely going for Obama if he is nominated.

Why on earth would you vote for Obama if you're looking for a fiscally conservative candidate? Take your two party blinders off.....We will have a viable third party option this year.

I have voted third party in the past but don't plan to this election unless there is a candidate with a decent chance. I would vote Obama over Santorum becuase I care more about my individual liberties being left alone than I do about fiscal policy. Ideally I would like both, but I can always earn more money and I may not be able to get control of my uterus back from the government.

[billisonboard]

Feb 14, 2012 14:27:23 GMT -5 diamonds said:

Feb 14, 2012 14:20:06 GMT -5 oped said:

?? How does what the LV pharmacy does have anything to do with decriminalizing drugs?? ...

If this happens anyway.... maybe we could stop paying all that money for prisons and send a fraction of it to education/prevention instead??

It's called monitering life-threatening drugs. Simple as that.

I fully support monitoring life-threatening drugs. Let's legalize all of them so that we can start monitoring their manufacture and sale.

[Deleted]

Agreed with billis... lets get started...

Although, truth be told , you can't make a person stay alive if they don't want to... or sober if they don't want to be... alcohol can kill (and actually maryj doesn't...) ... (and frankly i have enough pennyroyal and parsley on the property to trigger an abortion if you wanted one... )...

It isn't the job of the mass to protect the indivdiual from himself at all costs....

[billisonboard]

Feb 14, 2012 14:38:15 GMT -5 oped said:

Agreed with billis... lets get started...

Although, truth be told , you can't make a person stay alive if they don't want to... or sober if they don't want to be... alcohol can kill (and actually maryj doesn't...) ... (and frankly i have enough pennyroyal and parsley on the property to trigger an abortion if you wanted one... )...

It isn't the job of the mass to protect the indivdiual from himself at all costs....

A favorite verse from a David Wilcox song (Break in the Cup) is:

So if you're tempted to rescue me
Drowning in this quicksand up to my neck
Before you grab my hand to save me
Why don't you ask me if I'm finished yet?
You cannot make me happy
Not when there's empty inside of me
But you can pull yourself right in here with me
My misery'd love to have your company

[floridayankee]

Feb 14, 2012 14:25:11 GMT -5 diamonds said:

>>Morally wrong to who? Honestly, I'd rather our legislators not pass legislation based on morals. What happens if we get legislation based on a set of morals that you do not agree with?>>>

Morally to the respect of a persons life that is out of control. Too many enablers and big pharma benefiting.

You're arguing prescription drug abuse...that's a whole different issue than marijuana. Pharmaceuticals are legal man made creations. Marijuana is a naturally occurring plant made illegal with the stroke of a pen.