NomoreDramaQ1015
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Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on Feb 14, 2012 12:34:11 GMT -5
I was never bullied for being smart either. When it comes to my height, now that is a different story.
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whoisjohngalt
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Post by whoisjohngalt on Feb 14, 2012 12:34:37 GMT -5
There is a saying in my culture that goes something like this:
"smart people learned from their experiences, VERY smart people learn from someone else's"
We don't need to experience everything.
Lena
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billisonboard
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Post by billisonboard on Feb 14, 2012 12:36:03 GMT -5
... In my mother's time, (she was born in 1930) it was considered normal and admirable to do well in school. Everyone recognized that education was the way to success and it was considered perfectly normal for kids to be thinking about what they wanted out of life and how to get it from a young age. ... The (current) overall high school graduation rate with a regular diploma is between 80% and 83%, with the best data (NELS) showing an 82% rate. This study looked at those aged 25-29 and found that in 1962 only 41.6% of blacks and 69.2% of whites completed high school ... www.epi.org/publication/book_grad_rates/
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 14, 2012 12:37:15 GMT -5
... In my mother's time, (she was born in 1930) it was considered normal and admirable to do well in school. Everyone recognized that education was the way to success and it was considered perfectly normal for kids to be thinking about what they wanted out of life and how to get it from a young age. ... The (current) overall high school graduation rate with a regular diploma is between 80% and 83%, with the best data (NELS) showing an 82% rate. This study looked at those aged 25-29 and found that in 1962 only 41.6% of blacks and 69.2% of whites completed high school ... www.epi.org/publication/book_grad_rates/ pffft - facts, shmacts....
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NomoreDramaQ1015
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Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on Feb 14, 2012 12:39:43 GMT -5
In my mother's time, (she was born in 1930) it was considered normal and admirable to do well in school. Everyone recognized that education was the way to success and it was considered perfectly normal for kids to be thinking about what they wanted out of life and how to get it from a young age.
My grandfather had to drop out in the fourth grade and help raise his five brothers after his father died.
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Feb 14, 2012 12:43:14 GMT -5
And my DD is an extrovert, way over the top. Can't change that, either. But homeschooling would have been good for both of them, just at different stages in their lives. DD should have done it in high school, and did a fair amount of online school anyway and DS should have done it until high school. Different strokes for different folks.
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formerroomate99
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Post by formerroomate99 on Feb 14, 2012 13:03:44 GMT -5
Yes there are kids who do and are expected to think long term, but it is becoming less common and less expected, due in large part to people claiming that young people aren't mentally able to do these things. To blame brain chemistry for the fact that large numbers of teens aren't able to do what most teens did less than a century ago is absurd.
My grandparents grew up in a world where there was no youth culture and the concept of adolescence wasn't on most folks radar. They grew up in a culture where there was more interaction between adults and children, not just parents, but friends and neighbors were involved. And despite the fact that 3 of them came from terribly dysfunctional families (drunks, nutjobs, sociopaths and white trash for parents), they were all more 'with it' than most of my 8th grade classmates, all of whom came from families who cared enough about their education to shell out $$ for private school. Because of this, I don't see 30+ hours a week of socialization with peers in a school environment as being fundamentally important for a child's development. Socialization with peers is important, no denying that, but it doesn't necessairly have to be school, especially when the school choices are as bad as the ones my parents had to pick from.
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formerroomate99
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Post by formerroomate99 on Feb 14, 2012 13:08:10 GMT -5
What grade did your elementary school go up to? The pancake makeup and big hair started in 5th grade. The padded bras happend the summer between 6th and 7th grade when all my female classmates magically went from flat to a C cup in one summer. What can I say, it was a strange little town in the deep south. No southerner I've met since leaving the South has been anything like the folks I met in that weird little town.
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973beachbum
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Post by 973beachbum on Feb 14, 2012 13:08:35 GMT -5
So this whole thread boils down to everything was perfect in the good old days. People 80 years ago were super smart, hard working and matured very young. Today all kids are on drugs, having sex and dumber than a bag of rocks. Did I miss anything?
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Feb 14, 2012 13:10:34 GMT -5
So this whole thread boils down to everything was perfect in the good old days. People 80 years ago were super smart, hard working and matured very young. Today all kids are on drugs, having sex and dumber than a bag of rocks. Did I miss anything? nope. that is pretty much it. i don't even know why we bother discussing it.
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mmhmm
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Post by mmhmm on Feb 14, 2012 13:14:33 GMT -5
Nobody's blaming the failures of some kids only on "brain chemistry", formerroomate. What we're saying is: The frontal lobes aren't fully developed until the mid-twenties. That results in more risk-taking and poorer decision-making in young people. The kids aren't doing it on purpose. They're wired that way.
Your grandparents, again, have nothing to do with it. YOU have nothing to do with it. Neither do I. People are individuals. Some succeed, some don't. Our individual anecdotal evidences have absolutely no meaning when applied to kids today. Nothing anyone can say is going to apply to all, or even most kids today. It's not about you, and it's not about me, and it's not about our parents; nor, is it about our grandparents. It's about kids today and what they need to learn to live in today's world, not yesterday's world.
You haven't got a clue why one kid will do well despite a poor upbringing, while another will do poorly despite a wonderful upbringing. Until you can show me some credentials, or some cited material that gives truth to your claims, they're no more than your claims based, it appears, solely on your personal experiences. That just doesn't cut it.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 14, 2012 13:14:46 GMT -5
So this whole thread boils down to everything was perfect in the good old days. People 80 years ago were super smart, hard working and matured very young. Today all kids are on drugs, having sex and dumber than a bag of rocks. Did I miss anything? nope. that is pretty much it. i don't even know why we bother discussing it. ahhh, to go back to the days when women couldn't vote and certain folk weren't allowed on golf courses....
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973beachbum
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Post by 973beachbum on Feb 14, 2012 13:14:54 GMT -5
So this whole thread boils down to everything was perfect in the good old days. People 80 years ago were super smart, hard working and matured very young. Today all kids are on drugs, having sex and dumber than a bag of rocks. Did I miss anything? nope. that is pretty much it. i don't even know why we bother discussing it. Fourteen pages down to this.
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mmhmm
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Post by mmhmm on Feb 14, 2012 13:15:54 GMT -5
What grade did your elementary school go up to? The pancake makeup and big hair started in 5th grade. The padded bras happend the summer between 6th and 7th grade when all my female classmates magically went from flat to a C cup in one summer. What can I say, it was a strange little town in the deep south. No southerner I've met since leaving the South has been anything like the folks I met in that weird little town. If you grew up in a "weird little town" in the south, doesn't that tell you that your experiences may be very, very far from the norm, formerroomate?
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formerroomate99
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Post by formerroomate99 on Feb 14, 2012 13:16:18 GMT -5
I think the point is that parents are choosing homeschooling over a traditional school environment because they think full immersion in the youth culture could make their kids dumber than a bag of rocks. The fact that many of the strongest defenders of the traditonal school envoronment also claim that a teenager's brain chemistry makes it impossible for him to do what most teens were expected to do a century ago pretty much reinforces this idea.
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swasat
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Post by swasat on Feb 14, 2012 13:18:28 GMT -5
So this whole thread boils down to everything was perfect in the good old days. People 80 years ago were super smart, hard working and matured very young. Today all kids are on drugs, having sex and dumber than a bag of rocks. Did I miss anything? nope. that is pretty much it. i don't even know why we bother discussing it. No, no, no.....you both don't get it. The point is that today all kids are on drugs, having sex and dumber than a bag of rocks EXCEPT if you homeschool them. And then they should spend their teens planning their life so that they become pro-life, hate welfare and all government sponsored schemes. Thats the only way to become a productive citizen of society
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formerroomate99
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Post by formerroomate99 on Feb 14, 2012 13:19:12 GMT -5
It would be if I hadn't also met dozens of people from all over the country and tell the same story.
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NomoreDramaQ1015
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Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on Feb 14, 2012 13:20:14 GMT -5
You mean "Pro life, hate welfare and all government sponsored schemes with careers as nurses, engineers, accounts or self made businessmen" don't you?
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mmhmm
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Post by mmhmm on Feb 14, 2012 13:21:08 GMT -5
If individual parents feel they can do better with homeschooling for their child(ren), I see no problem with that as long as the parents are qualified, willing and able to educate the child(ren). I do not believe it to be right for every child, nor for every family.
Again, we're not talking about "brain chemistry", formerroomate. We're talking about the development of the brain to completion. That would include the myelin sheath in the frontal lobe, which is the case in point here. Nobody has said it's impossible, either. We've said there are obstacles due to physiology. This is scientific fact, whether you want to believe it, or not. You still haven't come up with any cited evidence for your point of view.
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swasat
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Post by swasat on Feb 14, 2012 13:22:43 GMT -5
You mean "Pro life, hate welfare and all government sponsored schemes with careers as nurses, engineers, accounts or self made businessmen" don't you? "Pro life, hate welfare and all government sponsored schemes with careers as nurses, engineers, accounts or self made businessmen and no liberal arts degrees"
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973beachbum
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Post by 973beachbum on Feb 14, 2012 13:23:52 GMT -5
I think the point is that parents are choosing homeschooling over a traditional school environment because they think full immersion in the youth culture could make their kids dumber than a bag of rocks. The fact that many of the strongest defenders of the traditonal school envoronment also claim that a teenager's brain chemistry makes it impossible for him to do what most teens were expected to do a century ago pretty much reinforces this idea. First of all people are saying that it has been medically proven that kids years ago as well as today don't have fully developed brains period. That is known to be the reason why young people for thousands of years have been used to fight in wars not mature adults. And I already told you that no one in my area takes their kids out of the public school because of that. They do it because they want to make sure that all the crazy stuff their kids learn is their type of crazy. ) My andedotal evidence is completely correct.
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mmhmm
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Post by mmhmm on Feb 14, 2012 13:23:55 GMT -5
It would be if I hadn't also met dozens of people from all over the country and tell the same story. Dozens of people of your acquaintance do not negate scientific fact, formerroomate. I haven't met anyone (not anyone I can think of) who has a story anywhere close to what you've brought here, and I've known more than dozens of people who did very well in school, were known to be intellectually gifted, and didn't suffer ostracism because of it.
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NomoreDramaQ1015
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Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on Feb 14, 2012 13:25:03 GMT -5
"Pro life, hate welfare and all government sponsored schemes with careers as nurses, engineers, accounts or self made businessmen and no liberal arts degrees
Pro life, hate welfare and all government sponsored schemes with careers as nurses, engineers, accounts or self made businessmen and no liberal arts degrees and never having stept foot inside a public school.
Your turn. ;D
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973beachbum
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Post by 973beachbum on Feb 14, 2012 13:27:59 GMT -5
"Pro life, hate welfare and all government sponsored schemes with careers as nurses, engineers, accounts or self made businessmen and no liberal arts degreesPro life, hate welfare and all government sponsored schemes with careers as nurses, engineers, accounts or self made businessmen and no liberal arts degrees and never having stept foot inside a public school. Your turn. ;D Pro life, hate welfare and all government sponsored schemes with careers as nurses, engineers, accounts or self made businessmen and no liberal arts degrees and never having stept foot inside a public school without being bulled within an inch of their life. Back at cha.
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cme1201
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Post by cme1201 on Feb 14, 2012 13:28:46 GMT -5
Your all WRONG.
If you are Home-Schooling or Public Schooling you are indoctrinating your children your only hope
UNSCHOOLING
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 14, 2012 13:28:52 GMT -5
It would be if I hadn't also met dozens of people from all over the country and tell the same story. Dozens of people of your acquaintance do not negate scientific fact, formerroomate. I haven't met anyone (not anyone I can think of) who has a story anywhere close to what you've brought here, and I've known more than dozens of people who did very well in school, were known to be intellectually gifted, and didn't suffer ostracism because of it. so now we're back to the "there had to be something else you were doing to piss people off" theory.... but what could it possibly have been?
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NomoreDramaQ1015
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Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on Feb 14, 2012 13:32:28 GMT -5
Pro life, hate welfare and all government sponsored schemes with careers as nurses, engineers, accounts or self made businessmen and no liberal arts degrees and never having stept foot inside a public school without being bulled within an inch of their life.Darn, I am stuck. I think you might win beachbum.
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swasat
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Post by swasat on Feb 14, 2012 13:32:31 GMT -5
Whose turn now?
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mmhmm
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Post by mmhmm on Feb 14, 2012 13:33:14 GMT -5
Come to think of it, I'd be willing to bet most people who post here are of greater than average intelligence, and have been for most of their lives. Did anybody else suffer ostracism in school for being "smart"?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 14, 2012 13:33:35 GMT -5
<---- about to LOL for real
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