Bob Ross
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Post by Bob Ross on Aug 23, 2011 11:37:35 GMT -5
Guys, would you sacrifice your penis to save your life? I dunno. A penis is no good to you if you're dead. Unless you become a zombie, and still need your penis for some reason, but I don't want to think about that.
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Regie
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I am a big mean snow leopard, yes I AM
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Post by Regie on Aug 23, 2011 14:40:13 GMT -5
As for waking someone up to ask them a question before continuing, I don't think that would hold up as consent in a court anyway. They could easily say they were still under the effects of the anesthetic when they signed.
Even tho some people on this board snap out of anesthesia easy some people don't. I for one can be walking and talking with no idea what is going on for hours after a mild sedation. Provides amusement to all but I would not want to make any major decisions at that point in time.
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hoops902
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Post by hoops902 on Aug 23, 2011 16:11:20 GMT -5
What I got from the article is that the patient had signed a consent form, as I faintly remember having signed before surgery authorizing necessary treatment in unforeseen circumstances. The doctor in the first surgery only removed a portion of the penis and the rest was removed in a second operation. So the doctor did have permission to remove the part he did. The patient was allowed to decide if he wanted the rest removed and he did. Not seeing any reason to sue here. Yes, "necessary treatment". It was not necessary that he perform that procedure right then and there without permission. ETA: And I think we all know what it means when a guy says "just the tip".
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Peace Of Mind
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[font color="#8f2520"]~ Drinks Well With Others ~[/font]
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Post by Peace Of Mind on Aug 23, 2011 17:29:06 GMT -5
We'd be ready if Pig didn't make it through the second operation. If it's just his man parts you're cooking wouldn't an Easy Bake Oven be more efficient? Pig - You know I'm just teasing you!!
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Tennesseer
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Post by Tennesseer on Aug 23, 2011 21:33:50 GMT -5
come out with an amputation. www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-14619926Guy goes into the hospital for what he thought was a circumcision. Surgeon found penile cancer and amputated. I think it's funny that many women would go in for a biopsy for breast cancer and wake up with a masectomy. Yet when the shoe's on the other foot, it becomes a court case. Guys, would you sacrifice your penis to save your life? Do doctors not tell women prior to a breast biopsy that if cancer is detected they will perform a masectomy will the patient is still under anesthesia?
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Post by The Walk of the Penguin Mich on Aug 24, 2011 4:31:27 GMT -5
Do doctors not tell women prior to a breast biopsy that if cancer is detected they will perform a masectomy will the patient is still under anesthesia?
Now they do, but 30 years ago it was not uncommon for this to happen.
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Post by pig on Aug 24, 2011 8:11:17 GMT -5
You've damaged my psyche but there is a way you can make it up to me...........
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Post by The Walk of the Penguin Mich on Aug 24, 2011 8:18:39 GMT -5
But, why was the patient having a circumcision in the first place? If he was going in purely for a cosmetic reason, that is one thing. But, if he was having some problems with the foreskin or whatever, then that would seem that he went in for an underlying problem which the doctor then found.
The man was apparently having the circumcision to alleviate some inflammation that was causing problems. The doctor found the reason for the inflammation.
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hoops902
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Post by hoops902 on Aug 24, 2011 11:02:41 GMT -5
"When will he face the inevitable, the next 4 hours, the next 4 days, the next 4 years... so easy to put it off past the point of no return and so deadly."
Whenever he chooses to. It's not the doctor's decision to say "well I think you might put it off if I left it up to you, so I'm hacking away".
"Well, there are times when you will not be in control and you will just have to pick the best people and trust them."
No, I dont' just have to "pick the best people and trust them". I can get 2nd opinions, I can choose to not do anything.
"Cancer can and does kill people who decide to just wait and see. Don't kid yourselves on that. "
It does, but so what? Does that mean if you get cancer we should remove any decision-making rights you have because you might die if you dont' make one right now?
You just keep droning on and on about how cancer kills people. No one is arguing with you. The fact that "it kills people" is not justification for "we're removing all decision making from your hands".
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Post by pig on Aug 24, 2011 11:05:30 GMT -5
Hoops I think I have cancer of the penis but I'm looking for a second opinion. /drops pants What ya think?
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NomoreDramaQ1015
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Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on Aug 24, 2011 11:07:42 GMT -5
What ya think? I can't see ::gets magnifying glass::
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hoops902
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Post by hoops902 on Aug 24, 2011 11:08:14 GMT -5
I think to me the bigger issue would not be "am I going to have this cancer taken care of"...but rather "who do I want doing my cancer treatment?". I may not want Joe Schmoe Circumcision Specialist MD doing my cancer removal, I haven't checked out his work dealing with cancer.
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hoops902
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Post by hoops902 on Aug 24, 2011 11:08:32 GMT -5
Hoops I think I have cancer of the penis but I'm looking for a second opinion. /drops pants What ya think? I don't see anything.
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Post by pig on Aug 24, 2011 11:11:36 GMT -5
Anything besides my manhood? Can't take your eyes off it huh?
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Post by pig on Aug 24, 2011 11:28:27 GMT -5
My penis is priceless.
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hoops902
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Post by hoops902 on Aug 24, 2011 11:50:39 GMT -5
"Believe me, I had an ovary taken out and that was no picnic either."
Did you choose the doctor to do it? Or was someone cutting you open for another purpose and just said "ya know what, I think I'll take the ovary too, it looks bad".
"It is terrible to feel that you are being neutered, but the alternative is even worse."
That alternative might be that I have it taken care of, but maybe I don't want Joe Schmoe Circumcision Specialist MD to do my cancer treatments. It's not JUST a question of "do i have the surgery or not".
"How much is your "right to decide" worth?"
That depends how many men are on the jury.
"Don't forget, every day there are parents who have to decide to have an infant's eye removed because he has a fatal neuroblastoma. "
Again, no one is arguing with you about cancer being bad or deadly or whatever. If I'm going in because there's a problem and the doctor says "maybe it's cancer, we might have to remove it, but it could be something else less serious, we'll do what needs to be done" and I sign off on that, that's fine, we've had the talk about the possibilities. But if I go into oral surgery because I'm having a toothache and they're going to remove a tooth and do a root canal...I better not wake up with my entire lower jaw missing because they found a tumor that was never even mentioned as a possibility and decided while they had me under to just go ahead and take my jaw off.
Maybe I want a second opinion. Maybe I want to explore alternative treatments. Maybe I want someone who's a specialist on removing jaws to do the procedure. Maybe I want another opinion simply on how invasive the procedure has to be based on risk factors.
The question is not just "do i get it removed", the right to decide extends far beyond that into a myriad of other decisions.
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swamp
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Post by swamp on Aug 24, 2011 11:54:00 GMT -5
Maybe I think healing crystals will cure my cancer. I have a right to be a crackpot and deny traditional treatment.
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swamp
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Post by swamp on Aug 24, 2011 11:55:02 GMT -5
I'm sure it is, but it won't be so priceless when you experience agonizing pain due to it. Believe me, I had an ovary taken out and that was no picnic either. It is terrible to feel that you are being neutered, but the alternative is even worse. Don't forget, every day there are parents who have to decide to have an infant's eye removed because he has a fatal neuroblastoma. Cancer is not for sissies. Yeah, I had a gall bladder taken out, and 2 c sections, neither of which were a picnic. However, if the doc decided to do something else while he was in there, I'd be pissed and I'd be suing, whether or not I had cancer.
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hoops902
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Post by hoops902 on Aug 24, 2011 12:26:23 GMT -5
"The doctor was contracted to fix a problem with his plumbing."
No, the doctor was contracted to give him a circumcision. That's another point, I dont' want the doctor who can't figure out what the problem is to make heat-of-the-moment decisions about what the new problem is.
"I doubt many people would find removing cancer to be unreasonable."
Really? So if you go under to fix a "dental problem", and the person decides "hmmm looks weird, just take her jaw off", you'd be ok with that? Even if they never mentioned ANYTHING about cancer, lead you to believe it was a simple procedure, and you woke up without a jaw...taken by a doctor who so horribly misdiagnosed the original problem in the first place?
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Sum Dum Gai
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Post by Sum Dum Gai on Aug 24, 2011 12:26:32 GMT -5
I doubt many people would find removing cancer to be unreasonable. Are you crazy? That's a serious question by the way. You doubt that many people would find it unreasonable for a doctor to perform a freaking amputation without a patients consent or knowledge??? Seriously? This doctor hacked off a part of the dudes body without telling him first, and you think most people would wake up and be fine with that?
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hoops902
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Post by hoops902 on Aug 24, 2011 12:27:40 GMT -5
"One way or the other, he was losing his manhood."
So if one way or another you were losing an ovary, you'd just be ok with any poor schlub cutting you open and taking it? And you'd be ok with a doctor who'd already horribly misdiagnosed your problem being the one to make the decision that it needed to come out at all?
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Chocolate Lover
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Post by Chocolate Lover on Aug 24, 2011 12:28:36 GMT -5
I doubt many people would find removing cancer to be unreasonable. Are you crazy? That's a serious question by the way. You doubt that many people would find it unreasonable for a doctor to perform a freaking amputation without a patients consent or knowledge??? Seriously? This doctor hacked off a part of the dudes body without telling him first, and you think most people would wake up and be fine with that?
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Post by pig on Aug 24, 2011 12:28:40 GMT -5
Don't judge me, I really needed an ovary.
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swamp
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Post by swamp on Aug 24, 2011 12:32:00 GMT -5
The point was lost on you.
I think healing crystals are a load of crap. I also think one is free to choose a load of crap for their treatment. It's not up to the doctor to make that decision for you.
I've seen cancer up close and personal. DH works in a cancer treatment center. It's not pretty. But like it or not, people are free to refuse treatment.
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Virgil Showlion
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[b]leones potest resistere[/b]
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Post by Virgil Showlion on Aug 24, 2011 12:37:14 GMT -5
Is this debate still going on? The man had a tumor the size of a grape in his penis. It was causing pain at the head, obstructing urine flow. Doctor has a choice to i) leave it be, in which case Mr. Johnson says "Can I still have sex?" and doc says, "Sure, as long as you don't mind excruciating pain and not being able to ejaculate.", ii) carve up Mr. Johnson's johnson into Filet Mignon trying to excise the cancer, leaving him with a painful recovery, extensive nerve damage, and a metastatic cancer ticking time bomb, or iii) stop beating a dead horse (or weenie, in this case), lop it off, save Mr. Johnson a second $50K operation, eliminate the risk of metastasis, and give the grief to Johnson in one big shot rather than prolonging it over the next five years. Did he take away Mr. Johnson's right to make a stupid decision? Yes. Is there any decision Mr. Johnson could have made that would result in a better outcome? Cancer says 'no'.
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Post by pig on Aug 24, 2011 12:38:54 GMT -5
Virgil do you find circumcisions as fascinating a subject as I do?
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Chocolate Lover
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Post by Chocolate Lover on Aug 24, 2011 12:41:44 GMT -5
Virgil don't make me start singing the praises of snow leopards
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Post by pig on Aug 24, 2011 12:43:47 GMT -5
Virgil agreeing with you actually supports the other arguments.
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Sum Dum Gai
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Post by Sum Dum Gai on Aug 24, 2011 12:44:41 GMT -5
This is a situation where the man had the illusion of control without any real alternative. You keep glossing over the part that it doesn't matter though. The dude has the right to decide who performs his amputation, when, and even if it happens. He could have spent a year in denial, a year going to BS faith healers or whatever, or maybe he would have just wanted a better doctor to perform the amputation. He doesn't have many good options, but they're still his options. The doctor has no right to make the decision for him, and if he wasn't expecting this law suit when he did make the decision he's a total moron.
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Virgil Showlion
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Post by Virgil Showlion on Aug 24, 2011 12:45:42 GMT -5
Not sure, off the top of my head. I support circumcisions for snow leopards. And no need for fancy, expensive scalpels. Chainsaws will do nicely.
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