ameiko
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Post by ameiko on Jul 31, 2011 12:45:49 GMT -5
Not seeing any evidence yet, just some conjecture.
The Tea Party rose up because conversatives got sick of RINO's and fake conservatives. Look at Bush: deficit spending, not locking down the border, and putting forth a Medicare drug prescription plan. I laugh when people point to Bush as a conservative.
Anyway, Obama is probably the biggest lefty to ever sit in the Oval office but he's also one of the least seasoned and least effective politicians to hold the office. As a result, he's not getting it done according to some on the left. With passing Obamacare, fin reg, and his failed stimulus I'm not sure I agree but the resentment is there, especially with the gridlock between him and the GOP House where any attempt to deal, in good faith or not, is decried by the left.
So, do you think it's possible that the Democrats will spin off a more left wing party, their version of the Tea Party? Why or why not?
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safeharbor37
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Post by safeharbor37 on Jul 31, 2011 13:27:52 GMT -5
Unfortunately, the Democratic Party is already the equivalent of a leftist tea party. The tea party is the reaction to the leftward shift of the political spectrum. As the Democratic Party was taken over by leftists, the "moderate" Democrats were left homeless and the Republican Party shifted left itself. I suspect that many former Democrats who cannot comfortably become Republicans are tea party participants. There has been a leftward shift in the US for over a century, but the recent move of the Democratic Party was seismic. There are hardly any moderate Democrats left ~ the ones now claiming moderate status were formerly known as liberals. I believe that what's going on is a realignment of of American political parties, but still there are those who are, and have been, so partisan that they cannot easily change parties. The tea party is not an organization, but simply people who feel disenfranchised by the leftward shift in the political spectrum. The Democratic Party as presently constituted can comfortably accommodate the most leftist so there is no need for a Democratic version of the tea party.
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Post by BeenThere...DoneThat... on Jul 31, 2011 13:50:10 GMT -5
...interesting... ...I think I might agree with safe here, to say there's no need for a DNC splinter, or their Tea Party version, in the coming years... ...then again, we've seen enough groups split over whatever crazy complaint when there was no need to splinter there, either...
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 31, 2011 15:40:12 GMT -5
A liberal version of the Tea Party?
I'm sure that it's just me but I thought there was a liberal version of the Tea Party already. It's called the Democratic party.
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Mad Dawg Wiccan
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Post by Mad Dawg Wiccan on Jul 31, 2011 15:43:15 GMT -5
A liberal version of the Tea Party?I'm sure that it's just me but I thought there was a liberal version of the Tea Party already. It's called the Democratic party. There are two, the American Communist Party and the Green Party.
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Post by privateinvestor on Jul 31, 2011 15:45:20 GMT -5
Not seeing any evidence yet, just some conjecture. The Tea Party rose up because conversatives got sick of RINO's and fake conservatives. Look at Bush: deficit spending, not locking down the border, and putting forth a Medicare drug prescription plan. I laugh when people point to Bush as a conservative. Anyway, Obama is probably the biggest lefty to ever sit in the Oval office but he's also one of the least seasoned and least effective politicians to hold the office. As a result, he's not getting it done according to some on the left. With passing Obamacare, fin reg, and his failed stimulus I'm not sure I agree but the resentment is there, especially with the gridlock between him and the GOP House where any attempt to deal, in good faith or not, is decried by the left. So, do you think it's possible that the Democrats will spin off a more left wing party, their version of the Tea Party? Why or why not? If it had not been for the Tea Party would we see any debt reduction plans in the congress this year?? Would congress just have raised the debt ceiling again without any spending cuts?? Say what you want about the Tea Party being radical right wing idealogues but at least they are getting some changes to business as usual in Washington DC.. You could be paying more federal taxes if the Tea Party members in the House and Senate had not pressured their leaders to just say NO to any new taxes during a slow economy.
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billisonboard
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Post by billisonboard on Jul 31, 2011 15:55:37 GMT -5
THE POLITICAL SPECTRUM l--------------------------------X-----------------X--------------------------------l Democrats Republicans
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cereb
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Post by cereb on Jul 31, 2011 16:28:14 GMT -5
"If it had not been for the Tea Party would we see any debt reduction plans in the congress this year?? Would congress just have raised the debt ceiling again without any spending cuts?? Say what you want about the Tea Party being radical right wing idealogues but at least they are getting some changes to business as usual in Washington DC.."
Sorry, but I simply don't buy that the "tea party" is in any way responsible for the idea of deficit reduction.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 31, 2011 16:30:25 GMT -5
THE POLITICAL SPECTRUM
l--------------------------------X-----------------X--------------------------------l
Democrats Republicans
Billisonboard, it's not that the Democrats & Republicans are only that far apart in American politics. It's that some people believe that they are only that far apart. That's why some people don't see the real democratic party agenda.
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billisonboard
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Post by billisonboard on Jul 31, 2011 16:51:41 GMT -5
THE POLITICAL SPECTRUM
l--------------------------------X-----------------X--------------------------------l
Democrats RepublicansBillisonboard, it's not that the Democrats & Republicans are only that far apart in American politics. It's that some people believe that they are only that far apart. That's why some people don't see the real democratic party agenda. My diagram is not labeled "The American Political Spectrum." It is labeled "The Political Spectrum." In the grander scheme, the left and right of "The American Political Spectrum" is only a small part of the whole.
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Politically_Incorrect12
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Post by Politically_Incorrect12 on Jul 31, 2011 19:42:39 GMT -5
"If it had not been for the Tea Party would we see any debt reduction plans in the congress this year?? Would congress just have raised the debt ceiling again without any spending cuts?? Say what you want about the Tea Party being radical right wing idealogues but at least they are getting some changes to business as usual in Washington DC.." Sorry, but I simply don't buy that the "tea party" is in any way responsible for the idea of deficit reduction. Dems and Republicans have both shown in recent years that they don't really care about deficit reduction. If not for a group to actually push for it, I'm not sure it would have happened.
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verrip1
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Post by verrip1 on Jul 31, 2011 21:01:03 GMT -5
A liberal version of the Tea Party?I'm sure that it's just me but I thought there was a liberal version of the Tea Party already. It's called the Democratic party. There are two, the American Communist Party and the Green Party. ... and a third, the Peace and Freedom Party. I'm surprised that more people don't acknowledge the similarities between the so-called tea party and the Libertarian Party. The Constitution Party is a conservative one which has a growing presence in more states. The American Independent Party is still around, as is the Reform Party. It has never been in recent history that there was a dearth of political parties, of which some are more to the fringe than the two major US parties. One problem is that people don't know more about them. It's a damn shame that we never get to see third party candidates in national debates. They are completely and arbitrarily hidden from public view, even when public funds are spent for the debate! Outlandish power mongering!
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Aug 1, 2011 0:02:34 GMT -5
The Tea Party is not a "spin" . That is why it rose up. It is a true grass roots movement of the people. Not some more manufactured BS. everyone is entitled to their opinion. but nobody is entitled to their facts.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Aug 1, 2011 0:31:24 GMT -5
Bob Brinker recently said that there are four political parties in the US: two in each party. i think that is about right. each party has a radical contingent in it. it is relatively small (about 20% of each party), but enough to mess things up at a time like this. your average Democrat is no more radical than your average Republican.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Aug 1, 2011 0:32:33 GMT -5
"If it had not been for the Tea Party would we see any debt reduction plans in the congress this year?? Would congress just have raised the debt ceiling again without any spending cuts?? Say what you want about the Tea Party being radical right wing idealogues but at least they are getting some changes to business as usual in Washington DC.." Sorry, but I simply don't buy that the "tea party" is in any way responsible for the idea of deficit reduction. Dems and Republicans have both shown in recent years that they don't really care about deficit reduction. If not for a group to actually push for it, I'm not sure it would have happened. precisely correct. there are so many sacred cows in DC that they could double as cattle ranchers.
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mmhmm
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Post by mmhmm on Aug 1, 2011 7:13:13 GMT -5
Pretty sure that quote can be attributed to Daniel Patrick Moynihan, erstwhile US Senator for New York, and a Democrat. It was one of my dad's favorites.
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deziloooooo
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Post by deziloooooo on Aug 1, 2011 10:16:33 GMT -5
Not seeing any evidence yet, just some conjecture. The Tea Party rose up because conservatives got sick of RINO's and fake conservatives. Look at Bush: deficit spending, not locking down the border, and putting forth a Medicare drug prescription plan. I laugh when people point to Bush as a conservative. Anyway, Obama is probably the biggest lefty to ever sit in the Oval office but he's also one of the least seasoned and least effective politicians to hold the office. As a result, he's not getting it done according to some on the left. With passing Obamacare, fin reg, and his failed stimulus I'm not sure I agree but the resentment is there, especially with the gridlock between him and the GOP House where any attempt to deal, in good faith or not, is decried by the left. So, do you think it's possible that the Democrats will spin off a more left wing party, their version of the Tea Party? Why or why not? If it had not been for the Tea Party would we see any debt reduction plans in the congress this year?? Would congress just have raised the debt ceiling again without any spending cuts?? Say what you want about the Tea Party being radical right wing idealogues but at least they are getting some changes to business as usual in Washington DC.. You could be paying more federal taxes if the Tea Party members in the House and Senate had not pressured their leaders to just say NO to any new taxes during a slow economy. I agree with the above, with out the Tea party, I wonder if we would have cuts in spending..however after admitting that, it's their extremism and demands of complete observing of all their ideas that scares me. In Florida, Representative West, a Tea Party beneficiary is in favor of this agreement , agreeing that a default on the debt is just not feasible, would be a unremitting disaster for the country..and the Tea Party is now suggesting that possible they should run other candidates for his office, and West is being bombarded with negative E mails, twitters, letters by those same members of the tea Party. To some a appropriate response , to me , scary as hell..like who are these people, do I want them in my life..if West gets treated like this, how would this middle to the left be treated.. To feel one has all the answers on all things and all others unless they agree on all things are suspect..not what I want as elected leaders of my country..while they may have a few good ideas, as all despots seem to do, and they are in my book, showing the colors of despots, the negatives always out weigh any positives, and usually in a big way.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Aug 1, 2011 10:16:37 GMT -5
everyone is entitled to their opinion. but nobody is entitled to their facts. OK? So, are you going to send me to Concentration camp for an "adjustment" of my facts? of course not. but i might send you a red nose and rainbow hair kit to match your opinions. on a side note: why does it always come to this? when someone who is either moderate or left of center quotes an old saying which emplores people to use their reason and think things through, they are accused of engaging in censorship. it reminds me of what teenagers do when you try to give them good advice.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Aug 1, 2011 10:19:56 GMT -5
We all know that since we can no longer understand the word "is", that the word "facts" is no longer really what you are referring to but instead just another PC code word and way to make people acquiesce to liberal dogma. Sorry, we aren't swallowing. you should try swallowing sometime. it really is good for you.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Aug 1, 2011 10:22:27 GMT -5
Yes, i can. Or, are you going to strong arm me into your supposed "facts"? this really says it all, doesn't it? no wonder there is sort of an "other worldly" quality to the radical fringe. it is a closed universe.
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safeharbor37
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Post by safeharbor37 on Aug 1, 2011 10:47:21 GMT -5
Daniel Patrick Moynihan Quotes www.brainyquote.com/quotes/quotes/d/danielpatr182347.htmlDespite that Moynihan was the Democratic Senator from New York and therefore hardly conservative, he had both judgment and integrity. djlungrot's use of that quote to address Snerdley's comment that the tea party was a grass roots movement was both irrelevant to the comment and contributed no facts to support the refutation [apparently the intent of the responding post].
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Aug 1, 2011 11:32:52 GMT -5
Daniel Patrick Moynihan Quotes www.brainyquote.com/quotes/quotes/d/danielpatr182347.htmlDespite that Moynihan was the Democratic Senator from New York and therefore hardly conservative, he had both judgment and integrity. djlungrot's use of that quote to address Snerdley's comment that the tea party was a grass roots movement was both irrelevant to the comment and contributed no facts to support the refutation [apparently the intent of the responding post]. some posts are just prima face bullshit. they don't deserve thoughtful discussion. and, to save you the trouble, i am by no means exempted. i could sit here and claim that i was trying to be helpful, but that would be a lie. i was attempting to avoid confrontation by being obscure.
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Post by BeenThere...DoneThat... on Aug 1, 2011 12:12:33 GMT -5
this really says it all, doesn't it? no wonder there is sort of an "other worldly" quality to the radical fringe. it is a closed universe. So, I am the 'radical fringe'? What did i say that allows you to jump to calling me 'radical fringe'? ...ah, Snerdley... embrace the attention and the pejoratives that come with it... I, an I, am apparently a right wing nut job... and the water's fine...
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Post by privateinvestor on Aug 1, 2011 12:32:27 GMT -5
The progressive wing of the House Democrats has already sharply criticized the two-step debt-ceiling plan that would set up a trigger to slash spending if Congress cannot agree on a plan.
The Progressive wing of the House Democrats would have preferred to raise the debt ceiling without any debt reduction or spending cuts but rather they want to see tax increase or tax the rich and give to the poor...but there times has past and they got their heads handed to them by the Tea Party and Conservative Democrats
The Congressional Black Caucus calls this bill a "Satan Sandwich"
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Aug 1, 2011 12:52:15 GMT -5
...ah, Snerdley... embrace the attention and the pejoratives that come with it... I, an I, am apparently a right wing nut job... and the water's fine... No problem. I just find it curious that the so-called non-label callers, diversity, no judgement group are quickly judgemental and always have to pull out the 'radical, insane, racist, sexist, blah, blah, blah ' whenever they disagree with someone's opinion. But, i am curious about what i said that was supposedly so disagreeable in the first place? Or, what was non-factual, radical or other worldly or whatever? Sheesh. lighten up. you'll live longer. if i was insulting you, i would use cuss words.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Aug 1, 2011 12:53:21 GMT -5
So, I am the 'radical fringe'? What did i say that allows you to jump to calling me 'radical fringe'? ...ah, Snerdley... embrace the attention and the pejoratives that come with it... I, an I, am apparently a right wing nut job... and the water's fine... who called you that? not me. at least, not intentionally.
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Post by Mkitty is pro kitty on Aug 1, 2011 12:57:41 GMT -5
Let's see, Conservatives' Saint Ronnie tripled the deficit, gave amnesty to illegal aliens, and like W., he also grew government too. Oh, and he raised taxes. Are ya yucking it up yet? The Presidents after Reagan raised the deficit too, so is Ford or Nixon the "best example" of a relatively recent "Conservative" President out there? thinkprogress.org/politics/2011/02/05/142288/reagan-centennial/He's such a lefty that people on the left don't think he's far enough left. More CONtradictory nonsense. Oh, could you tell us what the "it" he's not getting done? A President's job entails many different things, so having it in singular is rather one dimensional. There's things about Obama I like and things I don't like. I don't know if some Conservatives lack the ability to form opinions that aren't on/off switches, or if it's part of their "strategy" to not to admit to anything. Oh well, it's funny to watch them paint themselves into corners. Fortunately, it's not contradictory; unfortunately, it bears little, if any resemblance to reality. More thinkie, and less knee-jerky, plz. Hint: the Democratic party has been around for a while and has been well established for decades. Well, if you can't or won't explain yourself, I guess insulting / playing the victim / whatever will have to do. I don't think so. While it's not always helpful in getting votes in Congress, they don't have to be so "lockstep" as Republicans are.
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Post by BeenThere...DoneThat... on Aug 1, 2011 13:02:40 GMT -5
...ah, Snerdley... embrace the attention and the pejoratives that come with it... I, an I, am apparently a right wing nut job... and the water's fine... who called you that? not me. at least, not intentionally. ...I "became" a right wing nut job long ago on the old MSN boards... I don't remember you there, so I wouldn't attribute the label to you... unless your moniker was SOTH... and then maybe... lol... ...but, to be honest, I can't say I mind the label...
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Aug 1, 2011 13:10:20 GMT -5
who called you that? not me. at least, not intentionally. ...I "became" a right wing nut job long ago on the old MSN boards... I don't remember you there, so I wouldn't attribute the label to you... unless your moniker was SOTH... and then maybe... lol... ...but, to be honest, I can't say I mind the label... oh hell no. i remember that guy. no way. he is a nut job. THAT WAS A JOKE, PEOPLE!!!!!!! seriously, to. i remember SOTH. i am not SOTH. i think he moved to the Phillipines or something.....
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cme1201
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Post by cme1201 on Aug 1, 2011 13:21:22 GMT -5
...I "became" a right wing nut job long ago on the old MSN boards... I don't remember you there, so I wouldn't attribute the label to you... unless your moniker was SOTH... and then maybe... lol... ...but, to be honest, I can't say I mind the label... oh hell no. i remember that guy. no way. he is a nut job. THAT WAS A JOKE, PEOPLE!!!!!!! seriously, to. i remember SOTH. i am not SOTH. i think he moved to the Phillipines or something..... Me thinks tho doest protest too much. ;D
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