weltschmerz
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Post by weltschmerz on Aug 1, 2011 12:40:50 GMT -5
"Could you then explain the comunist country you grew up in or lived in etc.? " I thought I did. I lived in the USSR for a year.
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weltschmerz
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Post by weltschmerz on Aug 1, 2011 12:41:52 GMT -5
"Legal immigration is more closely controlled in Canada than it is in the US."
Exactly! So what's stopping you from doing the same?
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Post by magichat on Aug 1, 2011 12:43:29 GMT -5
"Legal immigration is more closely controlled in Canada than it is in the US." Exactly! So what's stopping you from doing the same? Stopping me personally? Probably 315 million other people, the entire US military, the FBI and god knows who else. But now you are deflecting, my point is you claim to have a utopia compared to the US only because of socialist programs while ingoring a plethora of other differences and that's called cherry picking.
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Post by ed1066 on Aug 1, 2011 12:47:22 GMT -5
"Legal immigration is more closely controlled in Canada than it is in the US." Exactly! So what's stopping you from doing the same? Liberals. Also, a lot of people really want to live here...
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weltschmerz
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Post by weltschmerz on Aug 1, 2011 12:51:13 GMT -5
"But now you are deflecting, my point is you claim to have a utopia compared to the US only because of socialist programs while ingoring a plethora of other differences and that's called cherry picking. "
Well, I've been saying for YEARS that universal healthcare in the US won't work, because in order for it to work, everyone has to pay into it. As far as I'm concerned, the biggest difference between our two countries IS the immigration. If your country isn't inclined to control immigration, all I can say is Good Luck.
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weltschmerz
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Post by weltschmerz on Aug 1, 2011 12:52:23 GMT -5
"Also, a lot of people really want to live here... ." A lot of people really want to live here, too. We have backlogs of millions.
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Post by magichat on Aug 1, 2011 12:53:09 GMT -5
"But now you are deflecting, my point is you claim to have a utopia compared to the US only because of socialist programs while ingoring a plethora of other differences and that's called cherry picking. " Well, I've been saying for YEARS that universal healthcare in the US won't work, because in order for it to work, everyone has to pay into it. As far as I'm concerned, the biggest difference between our two countries IS the immigration. If your country isn't inclined to control immigration, all I can say is Good Luck. At least you fell of that damn peg of yours about how great a country you have soley because of higher taxes and social programs and look it only took 1 page of posts to make you admit there was more to it.
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weltschmerz
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Post by weltschmerz on Aug 1, 2011 13:25:49 GMT -5
Well, of course there's more to it. I only felt I had to post on this thread because of the mistaken connotations of "socialism". It's not communism, and never will be.
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weltschmerz
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Post by weltschmerz on Aug 1, 2011 13:27:41 GMT -5
So yes, I'm a proud "socialist". To me, it's NOT a pejorative, which is what this thread is all about.
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floridayankee
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Post by floridayankee on Aug 1, 2011 13:54:35 GMT -5
Nor should it be. Although I lean more towards capitalism, I couldn't care less if anybody called me a capitalist. No big deal. Besides, I really doubt that anybody here supports total capitalism or total socialism since neither would last in their purest form.
I've said it before and I'll say it again, if you find a common term used to describe your political, social or economic beliefs derogatory, perhaps you need to reexamine your beliefs.
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cereb
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Post by cereb on Aug 1, 2011 19:28:51 GMT -5
"Liberals. Also, a lot of people really want to live here... "
Revisionist historian
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Post by Deleted on Aug 1, 2011 21:40:59 GMT -5
So yes, I'm a proud "socialist". To me, it's NOT a pejorative, which is what this thread is all about.
Well good for you weltschmerz, at least you admit that your a socialist. Most liberals won't even face that fact. I just wish that you knew more about comunism & socialism. Living there a year doesn't make you an expert on either of them (I lived in European socialist countries for 9.5 years & a cousin of mine lived in Moscow for over 10 years).
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Aman A.K.A. Ahamburger
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Post by Aman A.K.A. Ahamburger on Aug 2, 2011 1:22:30 GMT -5
Is the word "socialist" a pejorative? The problem, as I see it, is that most immediately think of communism when they hear the word. Nothing could be further from the truth. I lived in a communist country, where everybody suffers. Now I live in what you would consider a socialist country, where nobody suffers. We pool our resources to create vast safety nets...everybody pays in, everybody benefits. The notion that it removes incentive to work is absurd. If that's what you call being a socialist, I'm proud to be one. I'm sorry but I have to say something, as a Canadian.. First the province of Quebec receives BILLIONS in transfer payments from the rest of Canada, mostly form the west. Everyone pays into it?? Umm no, I'm sorry not even close to the truth. Recent pools have found that over 50% of Canadians believe that our health care needs to be reformed. The Native Chiefs hoard money that is supposed to go to their people, it has gotten to the point where the Lac La Ronge reserve is PRIVATIZING and going away from public controlled housing. I could go on, but I'm a lurker here, trust me ALOT of Canadians are sick and tired of our socialist system! A bit more history. It's call the communist manifesto.. Karl Marx? The founder of socialism. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karl_Marx SO ya there is a lot of communism in the ideals of socialism. Then there is the father of socialism in NA. Tommy Douglas.. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tommy_Douglas [/size] IMO, there is nothing wrong with being liberal, however there is a PROBLEM with thinking that the govt should look after people. The govt should uphold the law, which also means controlling greed, business should do the rest.. That's why I think of Free Enterprise as 80% capitalism, 20% socialism. Hope that sheds a little more light on the subject, if you can find a copy I suggest you read this article, it really opens your eyes to how much Canadians and Americans are alike! magazinescanada.zinio.com/browse/issues/index.jsp;jsessionid=E02E38B63381AA80F6D5F113ABB63058.ns101-e02?skuId=416175769
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Aman A.K.A. Ahamburger
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Post by Aman A.K.A. Ahamburger on Aug 2, 2011 1:36:31 GMT -5
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Post by BeenThere...DoneThat... on Aug 2, 2011 4:04:07 GMT -5
...welcome to the fray, ahamburger... and thanks for chiming in...
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Aug 2, 2011 10:09:22 GMT -5
So yes, I'm a proud "socialist". To me, it's NOT a pejorative, which is what this thread is all about. fair enough. so you don't use it that way. do you think OTHERS do?
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Aug 2, 2011 10:10:46 GMT -5
Nor should it be. Although I lean more towards capitalism, I couldn't care less if anybody called me a capitalist. No big deal. Besides, I really doubt that anybody here supports total capitalism or total socialism since neither would last in their purest form. I've said it before and I'll say it again, if you find a common term used to describe your political, social or economic beliefs derogatory, perhaps you need to reexamine your beliefs. good response, and food for thought.
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floridayankee
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Post by floridayankee on Aug 2, 2011 10:23:17 GMT -5
So yes, I'm a proud "socialist". To me, it's NOT a pejorative, which is what this thread is all about. fair enough. so you don't use it that way. do you think OTHERS do?The point being...why would you really care what others "think" when they use the word socialist? Put it this way DJ...if someone believes they are slapping me in the face by calling me a capitalist, conservative, or whatever, have at it if it makes you happy. Even though I know I'm not a capitalist or even conservative in the purest sense of the word, I guess it's close enough. And, there's not much I can do about the way "they" feel. I simply do not see any reason to feel insulted by my political / economic beliefs. Neither should anybody willing to stand up for those beliefs as we all do here. Now, changing / making up words like "tea partier" / "liberal" or adding to the word like "capitalist pig" is a lot different since there is no question on the degrading intent.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Aug 2, 2011 10:31:02 GMT -5
fair enough. so you don't use it that way. do you think OTHERS do? The point being...why would you really care what others "think" when they use the word socialist? i am fascinated by stuff like that. and i think it is "politically interesting".
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weltschmerz
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Post by weltschmerz on Aug 2, 2011 13:10:11 GMT -5
"Douglas graduated from Brandon College in 1930, and completed his Master's degree (M.A.) in Sociology from McMaster University in 1933. His thesis entitled The Problems of the Subnormal Family endorsed eugenics.[12][13] The thesis proposed a system that would have required couples seeking to marry to be certified as mentally and morally fit. Those deemed to be "subnormal" because of low intelligence, moral laxity or venereal disease would be sent to state farms or camps while those judged to be mentally defective or incurably diseased would be sterilized.[14]"
Seriously? That was almost a hundred years ago. Things were very different then. It's like saying that the Constitution should be scrapped, because some of the founding fathers had slaves. Tommy Douglas is one of my heroes....he worked tirelessly to ensure that everyone had acess to healthcare, even the poor.
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weltschmerz
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Post by weltschmerz on Aug 2, 2011 13:14:27 GMT -5
"a cousin of mine lived in Moscow for over 10 years)."
And??? I have lots of cousins who still live in Moscow. And Odessa, and St. Petersburg and Siberia.
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floridayankee
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Post by floridayankee on Aug 2, 2011 13:16:08 GMT -5
The point being...why would you really care what others "think" when they use the word socialist? i am fascinated by stuff like that. and i think it is "politically interesting". Say I don't give a damn what other people think. What do ya think about that? Tell me what ya think about that? What do ya think about that? ~Montgomery Gentry
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Aug 2, 2011 13:27:17 GMT -5
i am fascinated by stuff like that. and i think it is "politically interesting". Say I don't give a damn what other people think. What do ya think about that? Tell me what ya think about that? What do ya think about that? ~Montgomery Gentry that is Monty's prerogative. i think it is fascinating.
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weltschmerz
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Post by weltschmerz on Aug 2, 2011 13:36:11 GMT -5
fair enough. so you don't use it that way. do you think OTHERS do? I think others do, yes. They use communism/socialism interchangeably, and that would make them....wrong.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 2, 2011 13:44:09 GMT -5
"a cousin of mine lived in Moscow for over 10 years)."
And??? I have lots of cousins who still live in Moscow. And Odessa, and St. Petersburg and Siberia.
What I'm saying weltschmerz is that living in Moscow for a year doesn't make you an expert on communism, but it does give you first hand information on communism. It doesn't give you information about European socialism though because they are totally different.
If anything I would think that your living in Moscow would shade your view somewhat because most civilized countries would probably be better. I know that living in Europe made me appreciate coming back to the U.S. a LOT more. So much more in fact that I wouldn't want to move back to Europe or adopt a European government here. Europe is a great place to visit as long as you don't have to make a living there or put up with their health care system.
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floridayankee
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Post by floridayankee on Aug 2, 2011 14:03:48 GMT -5
that is Monty's prerogative. i think it is fascinating. Yes, and there is nothing wrong with finding what other people think, fascinating. I guess I'm just to laid back to really care what anybody else thinks about me. I can honestly say, I'll never have an ulcer.....well, a stress induced ulcer anyway. I'd even bet some even do simply because it pisses others off.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Aug 2, 2011 14:24:30 GMT -5
that is Monty's prerogative. i think it is fascinating. Yes, and there is nothing wrong with finding what other people think, fascinating. I guess I'm just to laid back to really care what anybody else thinks about me. I can honestly say, I'll never have an ulcer.....well, a stress induced ulcer anyway. I'd even bet some even do simply because it pisses others off. i could share a lot of personal detail that is only relevant to me, but let's just say i could use an outlet like meditation in my daily life.
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weltschmerz
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Post by weltschmerz on Aug 2, 2011 14:36:45 GMT -5
"I know that living in Europe made me appreciate coming back to the U.S. a LOT more. So much more in fact that I wouldn't want to move back to Europe or adopt a European government here. Europe is a great place to visit as long as you don't have to make a living there or put up with their health care system. "
That's EXACTLY how I felt after moving back to Canada. From the USA.
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floridayankee
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Post by floridayankee on Aug 2, 2011 14:56:56 GMT -5
i could share a lot of personal detail that is only relevant to me, but let's just say i could use an outlet like meditation in my daily life. I follow more the "don't worry, be happy" life plan. DW's different. She's all wrapped in the drama of my little bro's separation from his blushing bride of three months. As a caring brother, I've tried to give him advice in the past and he doesn't want it, so honestly, other than providing a "sympathetic" shoulder for him to cry on, I could care less about his personal life. After all, I've lived with him. I know what it's like. We only know one side of the story. And I have no desire to hear the other side either. Different strokes for different folks. I enjoy the responsibility and freedom of choice in all aspects of life and want less government intrusion and interference in my life.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 2, 2011 15:30:00 GMT -5
That's EXACTLY how I felt after moving back to Canada. From the USA.
More power to you weltschmerz. If that's the type government you like then great. I didn't care for it & don't want to live under it here. I don't like socialized almost anything (some is ok in moderation of course) but especially medicine. I've heard 1 to many horror stories about it (actually not heard, seen with friends) & don't want it here.
I also believe that people should look to themselves to make a living. That's not to say that everyone can always do it but most are able to. I hate social programs like welfare that can be never ending (if you play the system) & the harm that they do to poor people.
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