floridayankee
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Post by floridayankee on Jul 20, 2011 15:33:24 GMT -5
I agree, if we were to educate people on how pregnancy happens & how to successfully avoid pregnancy. The abstainance only education is a complete failure & you can't expect people to just know this stuff without teaching it to them. How many times have we heard people say the government doesn't belong in the bedroom? It's the parent's place to educate their children in bedroom matters, not "ours". I agree. Let the parents educate their children...lest they want to intentionally set their children up for failure. I don't want (uninvited) others involved in my personal life and I honestly don't desire to take any role in the personal lives of others...it's not my place. |
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❤ mollymouser ❤
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Post by ❤ mollymouser ❤ on Jul 20, 2011 15:35:19 GMT -5
If reducing the cost and increasing the availability of birth control prevents unwanted children, I think it's worth considering.
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Post by BeenThere...DoneThat... on Jul 20, 2011 15:41:01 GMT -5
...if we are to really discuss BC w/o copay, we need to know when it becomes cost effective to include birth control hormones into the food supply and regulate population?  |
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jeep108
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Post by jeep108 on Jul 20, 2011 15:43:29 GMT -5
I know when I was a teenager, I went to a family planning clinic and got free condoms, Paid $20 donation for a yr supply of birth control and they gave me foam to use. My parents didn't have medical insurance at the time. I know I was grateful we had a family planning clinic to go to. We used all three for protection too, I was not getting pregnant in my teens. So I'm all for the no co pays. Still think they need to make sure that they give info to have back up birth control though.
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jeep108
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Post by jeep108 on Jul 20, 2011 15:49:19 GMT -5
I think being educated on all protection there was for me to choose from helped a lot and I remember my mom telling me if you can't tell the guy you're with to wear a condom and he's not willing neither person is ready to have sex. I will be passing on the same info to my daughter.
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Angel!
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Post by Angel! on Jul 20, 2011 15:53:04 GMT -5
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reasonfreedom
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Post by reasonfreedom on Jul 20, 2011 16:03:37 GMT -5
Wow, those are some really bad questions! I am not sure if I should laugh or cry. Seriously though if the parents are that stupid, somebody just needs to stop that branch of the family tree. The reason parents should be the ones to teach their children is because family should be the most trusted and it is their responsibility. The dilemma as you say is that sometimes the parents are just as uninformed about the subject. The question is are the children more likely to listen to a teacher or their parents and peers? |
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Angel!
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Post by Angel! on Jul 20, 2011 16:12:19 GMT -5
Seriously though if the parents are that stupid, somebody just needs to stop that branch of the family tree. LOL, never going to happen if we don't at least teach kids how you can & can't get pregnant ;D I don't think schools need to teach the morality of sex/pregnancy or anything, but I think they need to teach about how pregnancy happens & how BC works, etc. It is a basic biologically function that is pretty important throughout our lives. Doesn't it seem like it should be covered in school at some point? |
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Abby Normal
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Post by Abby Normal on Jul 20, 2011 16:22:48 GMT -5
I think you & florida are giving people too much credit for their knowlegde regarding pregnancy
I think americans are more uneducated on the subject than you could ever imagine & education might go a long way to preventing unplanned pregnancies. Do we really want to leave it to the parents when apparently some of them are gullible enough & uneducated enough believe their teenager swearing she got pregnant swimming in a pool?[/quote]
So ignorance equals not accountable. Got it.
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jeep108
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Post by jeep108 on Jul 20, 2011 16:24:33 GMT -5
Our area only teaches abstinence. I still think they should be teaching about using more than one type of bc for back up.
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reasonfreedom
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Post by reasonfreedom on Jul 20, 2011 16:36:35 GMT -5
Seriously though if the parents are that stupid, somebody just needs to stop that branch of the family tree. LOL, never going to happen if we don't at least teach kids how you can & can't get pregnant ;D I don't think schools need to teach the morality of sex/pregnancy or anything, but I think they need to teach about how pregnancy happens & how BC works, etc. It is a basic biologically function that is pretty important throughout our lives. Doesn't it seem like it should be covered in school at some point? Yeah, we had sex-ed in 6th grade. I had no problem with the course material(almost like an anatomy course), i though it was good information and use that kind of wow factor for that age(like this is funny/cool that helped keep attention). The problem is that how many of those people in my class took heed of that when they thought they were in love(high school lust, but not always lust). Or did they get out of the class the idea that they knew how sex went now they don't have to be a virgin. I think maybe a class that involved showing dumpster babies and starving babies would be better. I know the whole scare factor isn't necessarily the best way, but once they become more mature and better informed then they would know how having a child is a miracle in itself that needs to be cherished and cared for. |
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Angel!
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Post by Angel! on Jul 20, 2011 16:36:52 GMT -5
I think you & florida are giving people too much credit for their knowlegde regarding pregnancy
I think americans are more uneducated on the subject than you could ever imagine & education might go a long way to preventing unplanned pregnancies. Do we really want to leave it to the parents when apparently some of them are gullible enough & uneducated enough believe their teenager swearing she got pregnant swimming in a pool?[/quote] So ignorance equals not accountable. Got it. I didn't say that, people will still be accountable because now they have a child to raise & care for. Welfare or not, a kid is a hell of a lot of work. They still have to deal with the consequences of their actions, but they might have made better choices if someone had bothered to teach them about the potential consequences of their choices. |
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Angel!
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Post by Angel! on Jul 20, 2011 16:43:42 GMT -5
I think maybe a class that involved showing dumpster babies and starving babies would be better. I wouldn't go that route. But, when we had sex-ed we had a group of teenage moms come in & tell us what it was like to be a mother while highschool & they did it in a way that didn't glamourize it at all. Our sex-ed also taught all the diffferent types of BC & their effectiveness & use. I never heard of a single girl getting pregnant in my HS the whole time I was there out of a school of 2,000. Maybe some did on the sly & disappeared or had abortions, but they definitely were well kept secrets because my friends & I have had this conversation many times. Why did we have no pregnancies when school like H's had several dozen girls get pregnant that he knew about? I think at least some of it was due to an excellent sex-ed program. Although I am sure there were other factors as well like we had a fairly solid middle class population, whereas H was primarly surrounded by poverty & welfare. |
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Abby Normal
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Post by Abby Normal on Jul 20, 2011 16:44:44 GMT -5
Our area only teaches abstinence. I still think they should be teaching about using more than one type of bc for back up. I think they should kids should be taught about safe sex and back up BC and the myths behind pregnancy that Angel mentioned. I think what kids get out of sex ed today is " odds are in you're favor, so go for it, if you get pregnant, you'll be taken care of" rather than " if you have sex, these are the potential consequesces for your actions so you best be willing to deal with them." |
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reasonfreedom
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Post by reasonfreedom on Jul 20, 2011 16:49:17 GMT -5
I think maybe a class that involved showing dumpster babies and starving babies would be better. I wouldn't go that route. But, when we had sex-ed we had a group of teenage moms come in & tell us what it was like to be a mother while highschool & they did it in a way that didn't glamourize it at all. Our sex-ed also taught all the diffferent types of BC & their effectiveness & use. I never heard of a single girl getting pregnant in my HS the whole time I was there out of a school of 2,000. Maybe some did on the sly & disappeared or had abortions, but they definitely were well kept secrets because my friends & I have had this conversation many times. Why did we have no pregnancies when school like H's had several dozen girls get pregnant that he knew about? I think at least some of it was due to an excellent sex-ed program. Although I am sure there were other factors as well like we had a fairly solid middle class population, whereas H was primarly surrounded by poverty & welfare. Actually I like that way better and also that the class would point out that it is a huge responsibility and that it is theirs. |
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floridayankee
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Post by floridayankee on Jul 21, 2011 7:25:00 GMT -5
If reducing the cost and increasing the availability of birth control prevents unwanted children, I think it's worth considering. This is the point people are missing. The cost is not reduced...it's simply being passed on to others. So, you and Me and every one else here get to pay more simply because others have no self control and feel no personal responsibility to pay for their own costs for their lack of self control. |
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floridayankee
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Post by floridayankee on Jul 21, 2011 7:31:02 GMT -5
They still have to deal with the consequences of their actions, but they might have made better choices if someone had bothered to teach them about the potential consequences of their choices. In this day and age of tech savvy kids and google, it's really not all that hard to figure out the consequences of pregnancy |
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handyman2
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Post by handyman2 on Jul 21, 2011 8:17:28 GMT -5
I find it funny with many of the responses given here about educating kids about birth control education and solutions.
I grew up in the fifties and we knew then about sex and it's causes and preventions. To imply that todays kids are ignorant about it all is laughable.
We had in high school each year a whole day spent on the boys in one group and the girls in another discussing the consequences and how to prevent getting pregnant. not that we did not know already.
So what is different from then and today/
It is this. for a girl to get pregnant back then there was a public stigma for the teens. Today's attitude is for the most part OH WELL. The negative stigma seems to be gone
Were there girls getting pregnant back then? Some but not like today. Back then the girl was shipped off to a Crittiden home or to grandma's or an aunt till the baby was born and put up for adoption.
The Morality factor is gone in todays world. Go do your thing and let the devil take the hindmost.
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billisonboard
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Post by billisonboard on Jul 21, 2011 8:34:00 GMT -5
... I grew up in the fifties ...
Were there girls getting pregnant back then? Some but not like today. ...  And then there is reality. |
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reasonfreedom
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Post by reasonfreedom on Jul 21, 2011 10:07:53 GMT -5
... I grew up in the fifties ...
Were there girls getting pregnant back then? Some but not like today. ... And then there is reality. This is recorded births. Does not include abortions, dumpster babies , illegals(maybe not sure). I bet there is alot more abortions and dumpster babies now than back in the fifties. |
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Angel!
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Post by Angel! on Jul 21, 2011 10:17:18 GMT -5
They still have to deal with the consequences of their actions, but they might have made better choices if someone had bothered to teach them about the potential consequences of their choices. In this day and age of tech savvy kids and google, it's really not all that hard to figure out the consequences of pregnancySo why do we bother teaching kids anything at all if they can just learn everything they need on google? As a society we need to take responsibility for teaching kids what they need to know, not expecting them to decide to learn it on their own. Otherwise we might as all just start taking the unschooled approach & let kids dictate their own learning. I'm sure we would be better off that way. |
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cme1201
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Post by cme1201 on Jul 21, 2011 10:21:20 GMT -5
No not as a "society" but as family members it is our responsibility to teach those in our families the right and wrong of actions, it is not "societies" fault, it is a family issue.
It does not take a village to raise a child, it takes family who care.
If society is responsible when do we remove all children from there homes and allow society to be the end all be all?
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pepper112765
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Post by pepper112765 on Jul 21, 2011 10:28:16 GMT -5
If reducing the cost and increasing the availability of birth control prevents unwanted children, I think it's worth considering. This is the point people are missing. The cost is not reduced...it's simply being passed on to others. So, you and Me and every one else here get to pay more simply because others have no self control and feel no personal responsibility to pay for their own costs for their lack of self control. If some large chain grocery stores, like for example, Giant Eagle, does not charge for a large number of antibiotics and generic diabetes medication among others, there is no reason why certain BC pills can't be treated the same way after the patent protection has expired and the woman can tolerate the pills. Mine are very low dose estrogen and my co-pay for (Loestrin Fe) is $30.00 a pack. My doctor prescribes them in 3-month increments so I pay $70.00 every three months. Now, having said that, even if they are free, you can't FORCE people to take them. |
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pepper112765
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Post by pepper112765 on Jul 21, 2011 10:34:15 GMT -5
LOL, never going to happen if we don't at least teach kids how you can & can't get pregnant ;D I don't think schools need to teach the morality of sex/pregnancy or anything, but I think they need to teach about how pregnancy happens & how BC works, etc. It is a basic biologically function that is pretty important throughout our lives. Doesn't it seem like it should be covered in school at some point? Yeah, we had sex-ed in 6th grade. I had no problem with the course material(almost like an anatomy course), i though it was good information and use that kind of wow factor for that age(like this is funny/cool that helped keep attention). The problem is that how many of those people in my class took heed of that when they thought they were in love(high school lust, but not always lust). Or did they get out of the class the idea that they knew how sex went now they don't have to be a virgin. I think maybe a class that involved showing dumpster babies and starving babies would be better. I know the whole scare factor isn't necessarily the best way, but once they become more mature and better informed then they would know how having a child is a miracle in itself that needs to be cherished and cared for. I think the best form birth control is letting a teenager actually have to care (and that means do everything) for a baby for about a week. I think you can show a person better than you can tell them anything. |
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Angel!
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Post by Angel! on Jul 21, 2011 10:40:06 GMT -5
No not as a "society" but as family members it is our responsibility to teach those in our families the right and wrong of actions, it is not "societies" fault, it is a family issue. Who said anything about right & wrong. I am talking about teaching them basic biological functions. How a woman gets pregnant, effectiveness of different methods to prevent pregnancy, etc. I am talking about teaching them actual facts. I am not suggesting the schools teach the children the morality of sex. |
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floridayankee
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Post by floridayankee on Jul 21, 2011 10:50:05 GMT -5
If some large chain grocery stores, like for example, Giant Eagle, does not charge for a large number of antibiotics and generic diabetes medication among others, there is no reason why certain BC pills can't be treated the same way after the patent protection has expired and the woman can tolerate the pills. There really isn't any reason...'except for one minor detail you're forgetting. These stores have these free meds by choice, not by force of an overbearing government. They did this to keep up with wally world's aggressive pricing policy on many generics. It's pure free market solutions in action. ETA: These stores with the free generic antibiotics / diabetes meds are a lot closer to the true sense of free because they do not bill the customer or the customers insurance. In the case of the BC, they are "free" to the customer but not the insurance company...they're not free. |
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Abby Normal
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Post by Abby Normal on Jul 21, 2011 10:52:37 GMT -5
I am talking about teaching them actual facts. I wonder though- how many of woman got pregnant because they were "ignorant" of the facts, and how many choose to ignore the facts? Sex can't be taught in school alone. Morality issues aside, many kids will have questions they aren't comfortable asking (even anonymously) in class. They need to be able to ask their parent. |
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mmhmm
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Post by mmhmm on Jul 21, 2011 11:03:36 GMT -5
Yes, agilemom, they do need to be able to ask their parent(s), and the parent(s) need to be able to answer in an honest, factually correct manner. Sadly, that's too often not the reality.
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floridayankee
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Post by floridayankee on Jul 21, 2011 13:03:16 GMT -5
I wonder though- how many of woman got pregnant because they were "ignorant" of the facts, and how many choose to ignore the facts? I believe it would fall in the category of ignoring the facts. Think back on your own life and think about all the times you've heard a story and thought.....that will never happen to me! |
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pepper112765
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Post by pepper112765 on Jul 21, 2011 14:59:48 GMT -5
If some large chain grocery stores, like for example, Giant Eagle, does not charge for a large number of antibiotics and generic diabetes medication among others, there is no reason why certain BC pills can't be treated the same way after the patent protection has expired and the woman can tolerate the pills. There really isn't any reason...'except for one minor detail you're forgetting. These stores have these free meds by choice, not by force of an overbearing government. They did this to keep up with wally world's aggressive pricing policy on many generics. It's pure free market solutions in action. ETA: These stores with the free generic antibiotics / diabetes meds are a lot closer to the true sense of free because they do not bill the customer or the customers insurance. In the case of the BC, they are "free" to the customer but not the insurance company...they're not free. If that's the case, they are still not "free" to the customer that pays insurance premiums as I do. I pay just shy of $500.00 a month for family coverage. I just got a re-fill today for my pills. The amount my insurance was billed for my 3-month supply is $130.73. I paid $70.00. So basically, one pack of Loestrin Fe is basically $66.91, which I assume is the amount negotiated with the insurance company -- not sure how that works. It is not a generic pill. I found a receipt from 2004, on a different pill (Ovcon-35) and the cost of one pack was $109.15. Insurance paid $74.15, I paid $35.00. Definitely not free, but also don't understand for a product ("the pill") and not just different brands, that's been around for years actually still costs so much. But no matter how you look at it, the cost of the pills are much cheaper than the costs associated with having and raising a child. |
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