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Post by privateinvestor on Jul 17, 2011 17:16:35 GMT -5
A new controversy over Oscar winner Jane Fonda's Vietnam War activism caused the actress to come out swinging against home shopping TV network QVC on Saturday, over what she described as its caving in to "extremist" pressure to cancel her appearance. In a blog posting on showbusiness website TheWrap.com, Fonda wrote that she was scheduled to appear on QVC on Saturday to introduce her book "Prime Time" about aging and life cycles. But the network, Fonda wrote, reported receiving a flood of angry calls regarding her anti-war activism of the 1960s and 1970s, and it decided to cancel Fonda's appearance. Four decades ago, the American actress angered Vietnam War supporters who gave her the nickname "Hanoi Jane" for her 1972 visit to the capital of North Vietnam at the height of the conflict. At the time, she posed for photos showing her sitting atop a Viet Cong anti-aircraft gun, and she remains an object of derision by some U.S. veterans and others. Fonda, 73, has in the past expressed regret about those images, and in her post at The Wrap she took aim at QVC and her critics. "I am, to say the least, deeply disappointed that QVC caved to this kind of insane pressure by some well funded and organized political extremist groups," Fonda wrote. QVC acknowledged Fonda's appearance was canceled, but said it was because of a "programing change." "It's not unusual to have a schedule change with our shows and guests with little or no notice," QVC spokesman Paul Capelli said in a statement. "I can't speak to Ms. Fonda's comments, other than to confirm that a change in scheduling resulted in her not appearing today." In 2005, Fonda was spat upon at a book signing in Kansas City, Missouri, by a man who said he was angered by her Vietnam War-era actions. "Bottom line, this has gone on far too long, this spreading of lies about me!" Fonda wrote at TheWrap.com. "... I love my country. I have never done anything to hurt my country or the men and women who have fought and continue to fight for us." The daughter of late screen legend Henry Fonda, the actress most recently starred in 2007 film "Georgia Rule." She won Oscars for roles in the films "Coming Home" (1978) and "Klute" (1971). QVC is a unit of Liberty Media Corp. (Reporting by Alex Dobuzinskis: Editing by Bob Tourtellotte) tv.yahoo.com/news/article/tv-news.en.reuters.com/tv-news.en.reuters.com-20110716-us_janefonda
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Mad Dawg Wiccan
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Post by Mad Dawg Wiccan on Jul 17, 2011 17:22:43 GMT -5
Good for QVC. I detest that woman.
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Post by privateinvestor on Jul 17, 2011 17:29:18 GMT -5
I am old enough to remember full well when Jane Fonda broadcast on Radio Hanoi, and I could not believe how an American Woman could say such horrible things about her fellow country men....at first we were all in shock but then her words began to sink in and we all wondered if she will ever know what an effect her broadcasts had on the troops in South Vietnam and our comrades in the Hanoi Hilton in North Vietnam....anyhow this story is all over our USMC Message Board today and as you can imagine is getting some negative comments by the old Vietnam Vets once again...
Some in the military wanted Jane Fonda tried for treason but at the time the Vietnam War was so unpopular that she was instead treated as a hero by some of her buds in Hollywood, CA and in Washington DC.
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steff
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Post by steff on Jul 17, 2011 17:30:32 GMT -5
Who still shops on QVC?
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Post by privateinvestor on Jul 17, 2011 17:35:49 GMT -5
QVC US QVC's U.S. operations are based in the Studio Park complex, which houses its corporate headquarters, studio and broadcasting facilities. Studio Park is the former corporate offices of Commodore Business Machines. Call center facilities are located in Chesapeake, Virginia; Port St. Lucie, Florida; and San Antonio, Texas. QVC's distribution centers are situated in Lancaster, Pennsylvania; Suffolk, Virginia; Florence, South Carolina; and Rocky Mount, North Carolina. QVC U.S. also operates a series of retail stores across the country, including outlet stores that are located in Bloomington, Mn.; Lancaster, Pa.; Frazer, Pennsylvania; Prices Corner, Del.; Rehoboth Beach, Del.; and Myrtle Beach, S.C. QVC broadcasts live in the United States 24/7, apart from the Christmas show which is pre recorded to more than 100 million households, and ranks as the number two television network in terms of revenue (#1 in home shopping networks), with sales in 2010 giving a net revenue of $7.8 billion.
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steff
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Post by steff on Jul 17, 2011 17:38:10 GMT -5
Ok..... does anyone HERE still shop on QVC? ? I do lots of online shopping, but never with QVC or HSN. Does anyone HERE shop at either of them? Does anyone HERE watch QVC for the guests?
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cereb
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Post by cereb on Jul 17, 2011 17:39:37 GMT -5
I am old enough to remember full well when Jane Fonda broadcast on Radio Hanoi, and I could not believe how an American Woman could say such horrible things about her fellow country men....at first we were all in shock but then her words began to sink in and we all wondered if she will ever know what an effect her broadcasts had on the troops in South Vietnam and our comrades in the Hanoi Hilton in North Vietnam....anyhow this story is all over our USMC Message Board today and as you can imagine is getting some negative comments by the old Vietnam Vets once again... Some in the military wanted Jane Fonda tried for treason but at the time the Vietnam War was so unpopular that she was instead treated as a hero by some of her buds in Hollywood, CA and in Washington DC. What did she say? Just curious. I was a baby during the Vietnam conflict.
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cereb
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Post by cereb on Jul 17, 2011 17:40:30 GMT -5
Ok..... does anyone HERE still shop on QVC? ? I do lots of online shopping, but never with QVC or HSN. Does anyone HERE shop at either of them? Does anyone HERE watch QVC for the guests? No, don't shop on either, but would be interested to know what sites you like if you care to share...
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cereb
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Post by cereb on Jul 17, 2011 18:15:52 GMT -5
Basically, she suborned treason and if she had been Joe Blow instead of a famous actress would have gone to jail. Regardless of whether you supported the war, it was a terrible thing to do to our soldiers, most of whom were young draftees from blue collar homes who did not have the money to purchase deferment after deferment. I know that, I was just wondering if anyone had any of the specifics of what she had to say.
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Post by privateinvestor on Jul 17, 2011 18:18:34 GMT -5
Basically, she suborned treason and if she had been Joe Blow instead of a famous actress would have gone to jail. Regardless of whether you supported the war, it was a terrible thing to do to our soldiers, most of whom were young draftees from blue collar homes who did not have the money to purchase deferment after deferment. And some were enlisted and knew full well that they would be putting their lives on the line. And of course many were all inspired by President John F. Kennedy who asked us to do something for our country instead of asking what our country could do for us...
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cereb
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Post by cereb on Jul 17, 2011 18:26:34 GMT -5
Ok, so I was curious and looked it up, here it is...
Broadcast]
This is Jane Fonda. During my two week visit in the Democratic Republic of Vietnam, I've had the opportunity to visit a great many places and speak to a large number of people from all walks of life- workers, peasants, students, artists and dancers, historians, journalists, film actresses, soldiers, militia girls, members of the women's union, writers.
I visited the (Dam Xuac) agricultural coop, where the silk worms are also raised and thread is made. I visited a textile factory, a kindergarten in Hanoi. The beautiful Temple of Literature was where I saw traditional dances and heard songs of resistance. I also saw unforgettable ballet about the guerrillas training bees in the south to attack enemy soldiers. The bees were danced by women, and they did their job well.
In the shadow of the Temple of Literature I saw Vietnamese actors and actresses perform the second act of Arthur Miller's play All My Sons, and this was very moving to me- the fact that artists here are translating and performing American plays while US imperialists are bombing their country.
I cherish the memory of the blushing militia girls on the roof of their factory, encouraging one of their sisters as she sang a song praising the blue sky of Vietnam- these women, who are so gentle and poetic, whose voices are so beautiful, but who, when American planes are bombing their city, become such good fighters.
I cherish the way a farmer evacuated from Hanoi, without hesitation, offered me, an American, their best individual bomb shelter while US bombs fell near by. The daughter and I, in fact, shared the shelter wrapped in each others arms, cheek against cheek. It was on the road back from Nam Dinh, where I had witnessed the systematic destruction of civilian targets- schools, hospitals, pagodas, the factories, houses, and the dike system.
As I left the United States two weeks ago, Nixon was again telling the American people that he was winding down the war, but in the rubble- strewn streets of Nam Dinh, his words echoed with sinister (words indistinct) of a true killer. And like the young Vietnamese woman I held in my arms clinging to me tightly- and I pressed my cheek against hers- I thought, this is a war against Vietnam perhaps, but the tragedy is America's.
One thing that I have learned beyond a shadow of a doubt since I've been in this country is that Nixon will never be able to break the spirit of these people; he'll never be able to turn Vietnam, north and south, into a neo- colony of the United States by bombing, by invading, by attacking in any way. One has only to go into the countryside and listen to the peasants describe the lives they led before the revolution to understand why every bomb that is dropped only strengthens their determination to resist. I've spoken to many peasants who talked about the days when their parents had to sell themselves to landlords as virtually slaves, when there were very few schools and much illiteracy, inadequate medical care, when they were not masters of their own lives.
But now, despite the bombs, despite the crimes being created- being committed against them by Richard Nixon, these people own their own land, build their own schools- the children learning, literacy- illiteracy is being wiped out, there is no more prostitution as there was during the time when this was a French colony. In other words, the people have taken power into their own hands, and they are controlling their own lives.
And after 4,000 years of struggling against nature and foreign invaders- and the last 25 years, prior to the revolution, of struggling against French colonialism- I don't think that the people of Vietnam are about to compromise in any way, shape or form about the freedom and independence of their country, and I think Richard Nixon would do well to read Vietnamese history, particularly their poetry, and particularly the poetry written by Ho Chi Minh.
[recording ends]
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Post by privateinvestor on Jul 17, 2011 18:48:05 GMT -5
Listed below are all available transcripts of Jane Fonda's Hanoi broadcasts, as recorded by the CIA's Foreign Broadcast Information Service (FBIS). Slightly redacted versions of several broadcasts also appear in the Congressional Record for Sept. 19-25, 1972, "Hearings Regarding H.R. 16742: Restraints on Travel to Hostile Areas." The transcripts are listed by the dates on which they were originally broadcast by Radio Hanoi.
July 10, 1972: Fonda to American POWs
"Brave heroes of the war would come back from Indochina and I was told that it is we who committed crimes, it is we who burned villages and massacred civilian people and raped the Vietnamese women. It is we who did it and we are sorry, and we want the American people to know what is being done in their names." July 13, 1972: Jane Fonda condemns U.S. bombings
"They seemed to be asking themselves what kind of people can Americans be who would drop these kinds of bombs so callously on their innocent heads, destroying their villages and endangering the lives of these millions of people." July 17, 1972: Fonda to American pilots and airmen
"I don't know what your officers tell you, you are loading, those of you who load the bombs on the planes. But, one thing that you should know is that these weapons are illegal and that’s not, that’s not just rhetoric. They were outlawed, these kind of weapons, by several conventions of which the United States was a signatory -- two Hague conventions. And the use of these bombs or the condoning the use of these bombs makes one a war criminal." "The men who are ordering you to use these weapons are war criminals according to international law, and in, in the past, in Germany and in Japan, men who were guilty of these kind of crimes were tried and executed."
July 19, 1972: Fonda on visit to Nam Dihn
"I went to the dike, the dike system of the city of Nam Dinh. Just this morning at 4 o'clock, it was bombed again, and I was told that an hour after we left the city, planes came back and rebombed Nam Dinh. The dike in many places has been cut in half and there are huge fissures running across the top of it."
July 20, 1972: Fonda on Geneva Accords anniversary
"There is an invasion taking place. It's taking place from the 7th Fleet, from the aircraft carriers, from Thailand, from Guam, but essentially from the Pentagon and from the White House." "You men, it is not your fault. It is in fact tragic to think how you are being so cynically used because the time is coming very soon, it is already half-way there, when people are admitting openly that this is one of the most horrible crimes ever committed by one nation against another."
July 20, 1972: Fonda press conference
"I’ve met with students, with peasants, with workers and with American pilots – who are in extremely good health, I might add and will I hope be soon returned to the United States, and when they are returned, I think and they think that they will go back better citizens than when they left." July 20, 1972: Fonda press conference Q & A
"I would like to accuse Richard Nixon of betraying everything that is human and just in the world today. I would like to accuse him as being a new Hitler." "I will be working with all of those other people, ah, to that end -– to end the war according to the demands made in the Seven-Point Peace proposal of the Provisional Revolutionary Government."
July 21, 1972: Fonda to American pilots
"The people back home are crying for you. We are afraid of what, what must be happening to you as human beings. For it isn't possible to destroy, to receive salary for pushing buttons and pulling levers that are dropping illegal bombs on innocent people, without having that damage your own souls." "I know that if you saw and if you knew the Vietnamese under peaceful conditions, you would hate the men who are sending you on bombing missions."
July 22, 1972: Fonda to U.S. pilots and airmen
"Should you then allow these same people and same liars to define for you who your enemy is? Shouldn't we then, shouldn't we all examine the reasons that have been given to us to justify the murder that you are being paid to commit?" "If they told you the truth, you wouldn't fight, you wouldn't kill. You were not born and brought up by your mothers to be killers. So you have been -– you have been told lies so that it would be possible for you to kill."
July 22, 1972: Fonda to U.S. pilots and airmen
"And I think, I –- I think that -– well, the other day, for example, someone told me that one of the pilots that was recent -– recently shot down, uh, near Hanoi, as he was, uh, driven across the river, uh, uh, he was, he was, uh, being being rescued by, uh, the people and he was shown a bridge and the people said, uh, that bridge was, uh, bombed, uh, recently. And he said: Well, my parents are rich. Uh, we can buy you a new bridge, we can afford to build you a new bridge after the war. And the people said to him in Vietnamese and it was then translated by the interpreter, they said, but can your parents replace our, our children, our mothers, our wives who have been killed by your bombs? And the soldier hung his head and he said: I didn't think of that." July 25, 1972: Fonda to U.S. pilots and airmen
"Every time you drop your bombs on the heads of these peasants it becomes clearer to them -- to them who the enemy is. How could they possibly by asking for help from a country which is destroying their land, their crops, killing their people, mutilating their babies? How can we continue to rain this kind of terror on these people who want nothing more than to live in peace and freedom and independence?" July 26, 1972: Fonda to South Vietnamese students
"We have understood that we have a common enemy -– U.S. imperialism. We have understood that we have a common struggle and that your victory will be the victory of the American people and all peace-loving people around the world." "Recently in the United States we've been doing a lot of political propaganda work among the students and the soldiers with your Vietnamese comrades."
July 28, 1972: Fonda to U.S. servicemen on bombing dikes
"There is only on way to stop Richard Nixon from committing mass genocide in the Democratic Republic of Vietnam, and that is for a mass protest all around the world of all peace-loving people to expose his crimes, to prevent him from fooling the people of the world into thinking that if there are floods this year it would be a natural disaster." July 29, 1972: Fonda to South Vietnamese soldiers
"Many people in the United States deplore what is being done to you. We understand that Nixon's aggression against Vietnam is a racist aggression, that the American war in Vietnam is a racist war, a white man's war..." "We deplore that you are being used as cannon fodder for U.S. imperialism. We've seen photographs of American bombs and antipersonnel weapons being dropped, wantonly, accidentally perhaps, on your heads, on the heads of your comrades."
July 30, 1972: Fonda to American servicemen in South Vietnam
"They believed in the army, but when they were here, when they discovered that their officers were incompetent, usually drunk, when they discovered that the Vietnamese people had a fight that they believed in, that the Vietnamese people were fighting for much the same reason that we fought in the beginning of our own country, they began to ask themselves questions." "I heard horrifying stories about the treatment of women in the U.S. military. So many women said to me that one of the first things that happens to them when they enter the service is that they are taken to see the company psychiatrist and they are given a little lecture which is made very clear to them that they are there to service the men."
August 7, 1972: Fonda on Quang Tri and Patrick Henry
"So that now, when the People's Liberation Armed Forces arrived in Quang Tri and joined together with the peasants to liberate the province of Quang Tri, the people have risen up, in the words of a journalist who just came from -– from Quang Tri -– like birds who have been freed from their cages." "We should be able to understand this very well as Americans. One of our revolutionary slogans, called out by Patrick Henry, was 'Give Me Liberty or Give Me Death.' And this is not so different than Ho Chi Minh's slogan 'Nothing is more precious than freedom and independence.'"
August 9, 1972: Fonda on "Democracy"
"Like tens of thousands of other Americans, I'm extremely concerned these days about the betrayal of everything that my country stands for –- about the betrayal of our flag, about the betrayal of the very precepts upon which our country was founded: equality for all people, liberty, and freedom." "Richard Nixon, history will one day report you as the new Hitler... It is no wonder that you are so cynically manipulating the American public into believing that you are striving for peace, when you are in fact committing the most heinous crimes against the innocent civilians of Vietnam."
August 15, 1972: Fonda on meeting with American POWs
"I had the opportunity of meeting seven U.S. pilots. Some of them were shot down as long ago as 1968 and some of them had been shot down very recently. They are all in good health. We had a very long talk, a very open and casual talk. We exchanged ideas freely. They asked me to bring back to the American people their sense of disgust of the war and their shame for what they have been asked to do." "They asked me to bring messages back home to their loved ones and friends, telling them to please be as actively involved in the peace movement as possible, to renew their efforts to end the war."
August 22, 1972: Fonda on her impressions of North Vietnam
"I cherish the way a farmer evacuated from Hanoi, without hesitation, offered me, an American, their best individual bomb shelter while U.S. bombs fell near by. The daughter and I, in fact, shared the shelter wrapped in each other’s arms, cheek against cheek." "I don't think that the people of Vietnam are about to compromise in any way, shape or form about the freedom and independence of their country, and I think Richard Nixon would do well to read Vietnamese history, particularly their poetry, and particularly the poetry written by Ho Chi Minh."
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The complete transcript of the Congressional hearings prompted by Jane Fonda's broadcasts from North Vietnam, "Hearings Regarding H.R. 16742: Restraints on Travel to Hostile Areas," held from Sept 19-25, 1972 by the Committee on Internal Security, can be downloaded here in pdf format:
H.R. 16742, Part 1 (pdf: 1.76MB) H.R. 16742, Part 2 (pdf: 1.74MB) H.R. 16742, Part 3 (pdf: 1.33MB) H.R. 16742, Part 4 (pdf: 1.27MB) H.R. 16742, Part 5 (pdf: 0.99MB)
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cereb
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Post by cereb on Jul 17, 2011 18:56:32 GMT -5
Thanks for posting that, I was just reading it online.
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Post by privateinvestor on Jul 17, 2011 19:09:02 GMT -5
The older I get, the more I wonder what the H3ll we were doing in 'Nam, but I still hate her "Hanoi Jane" phase. Imagine what would have happened if she were not rich and famous. We had advisors in Vietnam since after WW2 and provided support to the French at Dien Bien Phu in 1954. Then later President Eisenhower sent military advisors to South Vietnam in 1958. And Kennedy again increased the number of US Military Advisors when he became our president in 1961. Then President Johnson increased the troops in Vietnam in August 1964. What was rather ironic is the French warned our embassy after their defeat at Dien Bien Phu that our country should not get too involved trying to defeat the Viet Cong because we would never win...however our govenment ignored the French warnings to us.. And Sec Def Robert McNamara convinced both Kennedy and later Johnson that our forces would defeat the Viet Cong and prevent the so called Domino Efect in South East Asia...
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Post by privateinvestor on Jul 17, 2011 19:14:38 GMT -5
"They believed in the army, but when they were here, when they discovered that their officers were incompetent, usually drunk, when they discovered that the Vietnamese people had a fight that they believed in, that the Vietnamese people were fighting for much the same reason that we fought in the beginning of our own country, they began to ask themselves questions."
I recall those words or very similar words by Ms Fonda as the caption below her picture in our Colonel's office. And since he chewed tobacco; her picture was pretty well colored with tobacco juice ..
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Post by privateinvestor on Jul 17, 2011 19:28:02 GMT -5
PI, if you can get hold of "The Fires" by Joe Flood, you will find out that McNamara and friends were also indirectly responsible for decisions that led to New York City being put to flame in the 1970s. www.amazon.com/Fires-Computer-Intentions-City-Determined/dp/1594488983It just goes to show you that the old school ward healers and their grassroots, ear to the ground approach was sometimes better than all the computer jockeys put together. The thing I didn't like about McNamara was when he visited South Vietnam he only would arrive for a day or two to talk to the Central Command in Saigon and never went out to visit with the grunts outside of Saigon...or our hospitals in Vietnam or in the Philippines ...I always thought that McNamara was an aloof politician who was just too hung up on numbers i.e body counts, successful ops, or captured Viet Cong or NVAs... and a lot of those numbers were padded or inflated just for him and Westmoreland.. It is Red Sox time on ESPN...C'Ya tomorrow...
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Post by privateinvestor on Jul 17, 2011 19:31:56 GMT -5
Cartographic Unit ?? Do you mean topographic unit I recall both cryptographic (codes) and topographic (maps) but don't recall any cartographic But maybe the Army or Air Force had that unit??
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Post by Deleted on Jul 17, 2011 20:44:15 GMT -5
A new controversy over Oscar winner Jane Fonda's Vietnam War activism caused the actress to come out swinging against home shopping TV network QVC on Saturday, over what she described as its caving in to "extremist" pressure to cancel her appearance.
Everybody to their own. I don't watch her or allow her on my TV. Nor do I stay at somebody else's house when they watch her. If others want to, that's fine but not me.
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Mad Dawg Wiccan
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Post by Mad Dawg Wiccan on Jul 17, 2011 21:12:08 GMT -5
That "apology" was utter BS. She apologized not for what she had done or said, but for that she had allowed it to be filmed. In other words, she can't now deny it as right-wing propoganda/myth.
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Mad Dawg Wiccan
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Post by Mad Dawg Wiccan on Jul 17, 2011 21:29:33 GMT -5
Hanoi Jane is a personal hot spot with me. To date, my fifth birthday is my most memorable. It was the day my oldest cousin was killed when his transport plane taking him home crashed on take-off from Tan Son Nhut airbase. He was an F-101 Crew Chief, not a war criminal or baby killer.
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henryclay
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Post by henryclay on Jul 17, 2011 21:36:41 GMT -5
Someone asked why we were in South Vietnam in the first place. I hope this will add enough interest for anyone, who really wants to know, to do more research.
Since time began VietNam has been about as backward as a land mass people could be, and since breaking away from China in the10th century it has never been conquered in war. The French were successful from another standpoint. They offerered economic and educational progress during the 17th and 18th centuries. Google for "French Indochina", which was the name VietNam had until the early to mid 1950's.
Chinese Communisits had designs on "French Indochina" before WWII, but the Japanese beat them to it by moving in after France had surrendered to Germany because the French could not administr the country without outside help and the VietNamese people were not politically organized.
Ho Chi Minh had studied in France as a young man and at the outbreask of WWII, he, (North VietNam) was receptive to the Chinese Communists influence to oust the French from Indochina. Japan had been occuping the Chinese mind for several years and did not have the capability to involve itself in VietNam. During the war Ho Chi Minh, through guerilla activity, received American aid in the form of smll arms, (rifles, explosives and ammunition), but did not want westerners along with it. He is said to have asked for a photograph of Franklin Roosevelt and a Colt 45 so he could convince his people that he had been in contact with Americans.
After the war the French were essentially powerless and the country had little to offer except additional military drain. The Vietnamese had the equi0ment left by the Japanese. Ho Chi Minh was therefore powerfully backed by a guerilla force that defeated the French in 1954 at a place called Dien Bien Phu.
But not every VietNamese was enamored by Ho Chi Minh and the Communists, so in 1956 the country was divided along the 17th parallel into Communist North and Democratic South. It is questionable which was the more tyranical.
In 1956 the world was emerging into two camps, A Free West and Communist. Southeast Asia was prodominately Free West. Australia, France, Great Britain, New Zealand, Pakistan, the Philippines, Thailand, and the United States, under the Southeast Asia Collective Defense Treaty, (from which SEATO was formed), pledged to defend against what it saw as an escalation of communist military aggression against democracy in Southeast Asia and was Headquartered in Bangkok.
As the North Vietnamese repeatedly violated the agreement that has separated the North and the South it becamse apparent the the only way to stop Communism from ruling the country was by military force. The government of South VietNam asked SEATO for advisors. They were sent. China and Russia sent munitions, airplanes, tanks, artillery and people to the North. It eventually turned into a war in which all the SEATO countries participated.
The Viet Cong, (neither North Vietnamese guerillas in the South, nor the NVA ever won a battle. Not a one. True, they over ran some camps, only to later loose the entire effort, and they fought the entire war that way. Jane Fonda , with the help of people like John Kerry and his kind lost the war right here in the streets of the United States. John Kerry has a wall in their War Museum dedicated to him. Their leading General, Vo Nguyen Giap said they were beaten during the 1968 Tet, but stayed in the war out of Asian Honor, and as they were taking horrific losses, people llke Jane Fonda turned the war completely around for them. All they had to do was wait it out while it festered inside the US.
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henryclay
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Post by henryclay on Jul 17, 2011 21:42:47 GMT -5
>>>>>She was probably right about Vietnam<<<<<<<
She was anti-war before she went. She couodn't even get there as an American, so she went illegally. The only thing she got right about VietNam was that it was a beautiful country. Backward, uneducated, pristine and beautiful. Everything else was what she went over there to get fed to her and the Communists fed it to her. If she has ever apologized for anything she did or said it is still a secret looking for somebody to spill it for others to know about.
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cme1201
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Post by cme1201 on Jul 18, 2011 9:54:56 GMT -5
Ok..... does anyone HERE still shop on QVC? ? I do lots of online shopping, but never with QVC or HSN. Does anyone HERE shop at either of them? Does anyone HERE watch QVC for the guests? I have been known to peruse the QVC and HSN networks when they have some specials on kitchen gadgets, stand mixers and cookware. Occasionally I will watch when someone like Wolfgang Puck or Rachael Ray or another foodie type is hawking their wares.
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henryclay
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Post by henryclay on Jul 18, 2011 10:28:55 GMT -5
Why is it that some people ALWAYS try to pull the focus away from things that are unpleasant to them? What difference whether anybody who posts here even knows what QVC stands for, let alone buys anything from them? QVC is apparently a very successful TV based outlet for consumer goods. That's all I think anyone needs to know. If I learn they canceled Hanoi Jane because of listeners complaints I call that a plus for QVC. It tells me they are responsive to their customers, and it SHOULD tell readers here that Jane Fonda is NOT a favored American housewife, and that her book is not going to do well on QVC. Instead, it seems some people would rather not know that and having learned about it would prefer to strike out at innocent posters simply because they posted it.
It's like when anything critical of Obama gets posted. . . .
. . . sigh.
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Bluerobin
Senior Associate
Joined: Dec 20, 2010 14:24:30 GMT -5
Posts: 17,345
Location: NEPA
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Post by Bluerobin on Jul 18, 2011 10:37:40 GMT -5
During Vietnam, I was staunchly against the unjust war. However, I draw the line at aiding and abetting the enemy as she did. That was another war that we should have never got involved in.
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diamonds
Senior Member
Not as Tame as I Look!!
Joined: Feb 8, 2011 11:57:07 GMT -5
Posts: 3,522
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Post by diamonds on Jul 18, 2011 11:24:04 GMT -5
Good for QVC. I detest that woman. I agree! We've seen enough of her, she needs to just go away and retire. However, I adore QVC. It was quite convenient for me when I as laid up with back surgeries. I had it on and off most of the day at the time. Ordered everything from cookware, my first George Forman Grill, bedding, sportswear, perfumes, jewelry, books, teddy bears which I still have and eventually my Pilates machine. I spoke on the air twice and loved when they travelled around and did their cooking shows or went to other countries. Cream of the crop hosts, great quality and service. K to you....
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henryclay
Senior Member
Joined: Feb 5, 2011 19:03:37 GMT -5
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Post by henryclay on Jul 18, 2011 11:29:30 GMT -5
There were a lot of people who, , , , especially after the 1968 Tet, , , thought we shuld not have gotten involved in Viet Nam. Most of those feelings were fostered as reactions to the micromanaging of the war from people in Washington who knew next to nothing about war. McNamara in particular.
As Secretary of Defense he based resupply on statistics rather than on facts. As an example he counted "sorties" by aircraft rather than by the results of those sorties. He had airplanes flying with one bomb in order to have a "sortie count" when a bomb dropped in that jungle was primarily used as a defoliating tool.
He used a "body count" as a measure of success. He bragged that "they can't bomb an outhouse without my say-so." He put North Vietnamese airfields off limits because Russia was still flying civilian airplanes into them. He did the same thing with Hiaphong harbor because of Russian ships. The problem was that those airfields and Haiphong harbor were being used to bring in war stocks to the North Vietnamese and should have been closed. Air strikes could have closed them. And the airfields were , , , surprise, surprise, , , the places where the North Vietnamse were launching their fighters that were shooting down our airplanes.
McNamara said if our pilots didn't want to get shot down first they could shoot down the North Vietnamese airplanes first, but he would not let them bomb the airfields where those airplanes were coming from.
It was that sort of micromanaging the war that started to turn Americans against it. In the beginning the cry was to either fight the war like it was a war, or get out. When nothing in Washington changed, the anti-war crowds just said, "get out".
But in the end, the war did accomplish what it was intended to do. Communism was on a roll before that, but it stopped with Vietnam.
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Post by privateinvestor on Jul 18, 2011 11:32:34 GMT -5
During Vietnam, I was staunchly against the unjust war. However, I draw the line at aiding and abetting the enemy as she did. That was another war that we should have never got involved in. [/quote ] To me Vietnam was indeed a "Bright Shining Lie" which was also the title of a book by Neil Sheehan that traced our involvement in Vietnam and how our country was misled by our government for over ten years about the real war in the Nam and in Washington DC...
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jkapp
Junior Associate
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Post by jkapp on Jul 18, 2011 13:29:12 GMT -5
Notice how the VC never brought Jane to tour a POW camp...
Also, I notice how Jane never visited Cambodia's Killing Fields after we left Vietnam...
Yes the North Vietnamese were such lovely, caring people, weren't they?
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zibazinski
Community Leader
Joined: Dec 24, 2010 16:12:50 GMT -5
Posts: 47,866
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Post by zibazinski on Jul 18, 2011 16:41:43 GMT -5
My Dad said she "ratted" out some prisoners who told her how harshly they were being treated. That afterwards they were punished for telling her that.
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