cereb
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Post by cereb on Jul 17, 2011 14:57:27 GMT -5
"Wow, you don't miss much, do you? THIS IS MY ENTIRE POINT. The TEA Party is America."
No. The tea party is not America. There is some common ground. That's it, and that isn't news. What about this are you struggeling with?
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ugonow
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Post by ugonow on Jul 17, 2011 14:58:29 GMT -5
It is false that the deficit reduction act was sponsered by Republicans Rudman and Gramm,and was endorsed by Reagan and closed tax loopholes, or that Reagan cut some entitlements and raised military spending?
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steff
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Post by steff on Jul 17, 2011 14:59:54 GMT -5
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verrip1
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Post by verrip1 on Jul 17, 2011 15:00:04 GMT -5
Hey guys, Obama is NOT holding things up. Remember your civics. The CONGRESS passes legislation. The PRESIDENT signs it. Ergo, Barry shouldn't even be trying to work on the legislation, but our do nothing Pub house should get it's act together and negotiate with the Dems. Then Barry can veto it or not and be blamed. If I were him, I would firmly put it back on Congress' heads. In case you hadn't noticed, Obama put himself directly into these negotiations. As to a 'do-nothing' Pub house, it appears to me that you have considerable problem with something they are in the process of doing, so your editorial comment is laughably inconsistent. I'm not exactly sure what Obama feels his role is in these negotiations. His statement conceptually supporting consideration of entitlement reductions runs completely contrary to the positions of Speaker Pelosi and the Senate's Reid. Makes one wonder who runs this fractured Dem approach. On the other side, Boehner is obviously not running the House Repub side, Cantor is. Boehner is pretending he and Cantor are in lockstep, but that's only so he can keep his leadership post a little longer. Expecting that Cantor, Pelosi and Reid will come together on a compromise is ridiculous. OTOH, Boehner and Obama could readily reach an agreement. An Obama/Boehner compromise would be rejected out of hand, now. However, if they get together out of the limelight and hammer it out into details and wait, it would be the 11th hour solution I've always expected, and neither Party could afford not to approve it, albeit with great reluctance and nose-pinching. Then onward to the next crisis!!!!!
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ugonow
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Post by ugonow on Jul 17, 2011 15:00:31 GMT -5
It is false that the deficit reduction act was sponsered by Republicans Rudman and Gramm,and was endorsed by Reagan and closed tax loopholes, or that Reagan cut some entitlements and raised military spending?
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cereb
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Post by cereb on Jul 17, 2011 15:04:13 GMT -5
It is false that the deficit reduction act was sponsered by Republicans Rudman and Gramm,and was endorsed by Reagan and closed tax loopholes, or that Reagan cut some entitlements and raised military spending? Statement on Signing the Deficit Reduction Act of 1984 July 18, 1984 Ronald Reagan 1984: Book II Font Size: Report Typo Share The American Presidency Project Promote Your Page Too I am today signing H.R. 4170. In signing this important legislation, I must vigorously object to certain provisions that would unconstitutionally attempt to delegate to the Comptroller General of the United States, an officer of Congress, the power to perform duties and responsibilities that in our constitutional system may be performed only by officials of the executive branch. This administration's position on the unconstitutionality of these provisions was clearly articulated to Congress by the Department of Justice on April 20, 1984. I am instructing the Attorney General to inform all executive branch agencies as soon as possible with respect to how they may comply with the provisions of this bill in a manner consistent with the Constitution. Read more at the American Presidency Project: Ronald Reagan: Statement on Signing the Deficit Reduction Act of 1984 www.presidency.ucsb.edu/ws/index.php?pid=40166#ixzz1SOXele6YIt's purely your imagination....
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AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP
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Post by AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP on Jul 17, 2011 15:17:31 GMT -5
Like it or not paul, America isn't just what you say it is. Every American has the right to their opinions, their views, and their beliefs. If you don't agree with that, tough tittie. You don't have to like or even respect what the rest of America thinks, but you don't get to tell them what to think, believe or vote for. America is MORE than *just* the Tea Party. I recognized what you're saying steff. I have acknowledged that there are different views. All I've done here is point out that they are the views of a minority of Americans- a significant minority, but a minority nonetheless. I like- even respect many liberals. I am friends-- good friends- with many liberals. I am simply passionate in my argument that you're wrong, and a good majority of Americans agree with me. The left and in particular the Democratic Party has done a pretty good job up until the election of The Obama of convincing Americans that it is a mainstream, even conservative party (look at all the effort the Obama regime has done to try to compare Obama to Reagan and convince voters he is like Reagan) in many respects. The point I am making here is that the far left politics of The Obama, and his Party are NOT big political winners when you take them issue by issue. Yes, many more than 30% of voters came out for Obama, and he'll get more than 30% of the vote in 2012-- like 46% or so... But issue by issue- if voters are given the clear choice, Obama loses on virtually every issue, including his beloved ObamaCare. My point is also that the TEA Party is America in that issue by issue, Americans support the TEA Party position. Whether they carry signs and banners and march in protests, or shout at town hall meetings-- Americans are TEA Partiers on the issues. Stripped down, unvarnished, and transparent-- only a small number of voters support any of the far left ideas embraced by Obama and the Democratic Party. What the TEA Party has done has been to help clarify the differences on the issues by exposing Democrats for who they really are, and holding Republicans feet to the fire and forcing them to either be the small government, low tax, individual rights GOP they claim to be-- or face primary challenges and lose. This is why the establishment in both parties oppose the TEA Party. This is why political elites would like to shame voters from any mention of association with the movement.
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steff
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Post by steff on Jul 17, 2011 15:21:23 GMT -5
Living in a state with a Tea Party govn, I can tell you that he's finding fewer and fewer that support his agenda to dismantel our state. He's lost support from the Republicans holding office here and he's lost support from those that voted for him. Once it was realized just how much he wanted to destroy instead of fix, he isn't so popular anymore. I doubt he gets a 2nd term.
the Tea Party IMO, is a flash in the pan. They go too far and lose support when folks realize what they are doing.
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AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP
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Post by AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP on Jul 17, 2011 15:22:33 GMT -5
It is false that the deficit reduction act was sponsered by Republicans Rudman and Gramm,and was endorsed by Reagan and closed tax loopholes, or that Reagan cut some entitlements and raised military spending? All spending bills originate in the House. The President may sign, or VETO bills. Are you claiming on this thread that every single one of Reagan's budgets was D.O.A.? Are you claiming that Reagan did not fight for the Line Item VETO power that would have allowed him to strike provisions of bills, specifically spending bills, in an effort to bring government spending under control? You're not talking to some low information voter out on the street in NYC, here. You're gonna have to produce a fact or two, which thus far, you've failed to do. Show me how defense spending accounted for 100% of the deficit under Reagan. Hell, show me how it accounted for 50% of the deficit.
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AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP
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Post by AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP on Jul 17, 2011 15:24:39 GMT -5
Living in a state with a Tea Party govn, I can tell you that he's finding fewer and fewer that support his agenda to dismantel our state. He's lost support from the Republicans holding office here and he's lost support from those that voted for him. Once it was realized just how much he wanted to destroy instead of fix, he isn't so popular anymore. I doubt he gets a 2nd term. the Tea Party IMO, is a flash in the pan. They go too far and lose support when folks realize what they are doing. I don't doubt that as voters used to hearing politicians tell them they can have their cake and eat it too, are upset once a politician finally explains the rather unpleasant truths to them and speaks them as if they are actually fully developed adults.
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AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP
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Post by AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP on Jul 17, 2011 15:25:38 GMT -5
Living in a state with a Tea Party govn, I can tell you that he's finding fewer and fewer that support his agenda to dismantel our state. He's lost support from the Republicans holding office here and he's lost support from those that voted for him. Once it was realized just how much he wanted to destroy instead of fix, he isn't so popular anymore. I doubt he gets a 2nd term. the Tea Party IMO, is a flash in the pan. They go too far and lose support when folks realize what they are doing. What state do you live in, and what exactly are the dividing issues at the moment?
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ugonow
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Post by ugonow on Jul 17, 2011 15:27:49 GMT -5
President of the United States Ronald Reagan agreed to the tax hikes on the promise from Congress of a $3 reduction in spending for every $1 increase in taxes. Some conservatives, led by then-Congressman Jack Kemp, claim that the promised spending reductions never occurred.[4] One week after TEFRA was signed, H.R. 6863 - the Supplemental Appropriations Act of 1982 which Ronald Reagan claimed would "bust the budget" [5] was passed by both houses of Congress over his veto.[6] Four years later, then-budget director David Stockman, however, stated that Congress substantially upheld its end of the bargain, and cites the Administration's failure to identify management savings and its resistance to defense spending cuts as the key impediments to greater outlay savings.[4]
The original TEFRA bill as passed by the House lowered taxes.[7] The Republican-controlled Senate replaced the text of the original House bill with a number of tax increases, and the bill became law after President Ronald Reagan signed it. A lawsuit was filed by Garrison R. Armstrong claiming that TEFRA violated Article One of the United States Constitution which requires all revenue bills to originate in the House. The United States Court of Appeals for the Ninth Circuit ruled against Armstrong, saying
We therefore conclude that the Senate did not exceed its authority under the origination clause when it proposed the extensive amendments that ultimately became TEFRA.
In 1988, libertarian political writer Sheldon Richman described TEFRA as "the largest tax increase in American history."
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AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP
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Post by AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP on Jul 17, 2011 16:51:12 GMT -5
"Wow, you don't miss much, do you? THIS IS MY ENTIRE POINT. The TEA Party is America." No. The tea party is not America. There is some common ground. That's it, and that isn't news. What about this are you struggling with? I have no struggles. I simply state facts. You take ANY TEA Party position on ANY issue and you have a minimum of 60% support by the general population. That means that the TEA Party is representative of a HUGE swath of American voters. That means the TEA Party IS America. It doesn't mean it's every last person in America- there will always be a small group of people that are wrong on every issue no matter how simple the matter.
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AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP
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Post by AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP on Jul 17, 2011 16:53:52 GMT -5
President of the United States Ronald Reagan agreed to the tax hikes on the promise from Congress of a $3 reduction in spending for every $1 increase in taxes. Some conservatives, led by then-Congressman Jack Kemp, claim that the promised spending reductions never occurred.[4] One week after TEFRA was signed, H.R. 6863 - the Supplemental Appropriations Act of 1982 which Ronald Reagan claimed would "bust the budget" [5] was passed by both houses of Congress over his veto.[6] Four years later, then-budget director David Stockman, however, stated that Congress substantially upheld its end of the bargain, and cites the Administration's failure to identify management savings and its resistance to defense spending cuts as the key impediments to greater outlay savings.[4] The original TEFRA bill as passed by the House lowered taxes.[7] The Republican-controlled Senate replaced the text of the original House bill with a number of tax increases, and the bill became law after President Ronald Reagan signed it. A lawsuit was filed by Garrison R. Armstrong claiming that TEFRA violated Article One of the United States Constitution which requires all revenue bills to originate in the House. The United States Court of Appeals for the Ninth Circuit ruled against Armstrong, saying We therefore conclude that the Senate did not exceed its authority under the origination clause when it proposed the extensive amendments that ultimately became TEFRA. In 1988, libertarian political writer Sheldon Richman described TEFRA as "the largest tax increase in American history." Do you even know when you're making my point? They CLAIM, but the claims are false. The bottom line is that Congress passed the budget OVER REAGAN'S VETO that failed to meet its promises. If they passed a budget over a VETO, how can they then claim it was Reagan's insistence on anything, Defense Department, or any other spending? They passed it over a VETO. Jeeze.
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AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP
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Post by AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP on Jul 17, 2011 16:57:45 GMT -5
And I've already agreed that it was a tax increase. I disagree that it did anything to raise revenue. The economy was already growing, and spending had already decreased from 4% of GDP to 2.9% of GDP as a result of a growing economy BEFORE TEFRA WENT INTO EFFECT. In fact, the thing that happened immediately following the implementation of TEFRA was an economic slow down, and a market crash.
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mmhmm
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Post by mmhmm on Jul 17, 2011 17:00:31 GMT -5
"Wow, you don't miss much, do you? THIS IS MY ENTIRE POINT. The TEA Party is America." No. The tea party is not America. There is some common ground. That's it, and that isn't news. What about this are you struggling with? I have no struggles. I simply state facts. You take ANY TEA Party position on ANY issue and you have a minimum of 60% support by the general population. That means that the TEA Party is representative of a HUGE swath of American voters. That means the TEA Party IS America. It doesn't mean it's every last person in America- there will always be a small group of people that are wrong on every issue no matter how simple the matter. While you might take any individual TEA Party stance on an issue and find 60% agreement amongst the citizens of this country, you will not find that level of agreement when these positions are presented as a whole. Heck, if you took the positions of any political party individually, you'd probably find the statistics would be much the same. Just as there will always be a small percentage of people who are wrong about an individual issue (or several), there will always be a small percentage of people who think they know what the majority of the country thinks, has for breakfast, and does in their bedrooms. That's a given. It doesn't, however, mean that small group of people is correct in their assumptions. Considering the dearth of crystal balls and mind-reading equipment, the opposite is very likely true.
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steff
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Post by steff on Jul 17, 2011 17:05:48 GMT -5
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handyman2
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Post by handyman2 on Jul 17, 2011 18:10:27 GMT -5
Mrs. Lee has always had the ability to say stupid things. Why do we pay any attention? her colleagues don't
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dancinmama
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Post by dancinmama on Jul 17, 2011 19:33:49 GMT -5
Hey guys, Obama is NOT holding things up. Remember your civics. The CONGRESS passes legislation. The PRESIDENT signs it. Ergo, Barry shouldn't even be trying to work on the legislation, but our do nothing Pub house should get it's act together and negotiate with the Dems. Then Barry can veto it or not and be blamed. If I were him, I would firmly put it back on Congress' heads. That's exactly what is going to happen next week. The pubs plan to pass the Cut, Cap, and Balance bill in the House and then it will be up to the dems to pass it in the Senate and send it up to the POTUS.
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formerexpat
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Post by formerexpat on Jul 17, 2011 20:03:10 GMT -5
Balanced budget bill is the solution.
None of this 4 trillion over 10 years shit that future politicians can erase with a single pen stroke in the future.
The President is smart and knows how to talk to a largely ignorant public. There is a large part of the public that want to see results.
$400m per year is only 1/3 of this year's deficit. That's not going to cut it DC.
While some on this board may think the tea party is a fad, Gen Y is becoming increasingly aware of the hole the boomers have dug and will be the largest voting block within the next 15 years. The tea party [no, not talking about Palin & Bachmann but real, Goldwater type fiscal conservatives] can really capitalize as Gen Y arrives in full to the political scene.
Every generations votes themselves money. Note to boomers - Gen Y will not foot the bill for your voting record over the past 30 years.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 17, 2011 20:41:08 GMT -5
From my own life experiences (& my own opinion) those that play the race card are usually (but not always) the bigots in the group. They dislike whatever group so much that in their deals with them they assume that they are bigots. On a side note, I'll be damned. I had no idea that we had a democrat "anything" from Texas. I guess they must have run out of tar & feathers.
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Bluerobin
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Post by Bluerobin on Jul 18, 2011 8:06:07 GMT -5
PBP, the Tea Party is the lunatic fringe of the Pubs. They represent about 30% of the pubs - that would give them about 15% of the populace. Not quite mainstream. Only tea partiers believe they are the mainstream. If ever there was a time for a Main Street movement, it is now, more so than in 1992 when Perot scared the heck outta both parties. Too bad he was not serious.
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handyman2
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Post by handyman2 on Jul 18, 2011 8:43:23 GMT -5
Blue Robin: You need to get out more and see the real world. A tea party rally held here there were as many Dems there as Repubs. I went to see what it was all about and was surprised just how broad based it really was.
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Bluerobin
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Post by Bluerobin on Jul 18, 2011 8:48:24 GMT -5
Handyman, you need to realize that extremism isn't the answer. Most of the country is mainstream, not left and not right. Perhaps you are the one who should be getting out. As long as the Tea Party exhalts the likes of Palin and Bachmann, they will never be mainstream.
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handyman2
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Post by handyman2 on Jul 18, 2011 8:55:22 GMT -5
The budget impasse has nothing to do with race. The Dems could not pass a budget when they had control so now they are crying about wanting to spend more money with no restrictions. Obama puts all his wishes in verbal terms not on paper. His fiscal plans are really a mystery so why would any Congress just lay out a blank check? By the way the US will not default on it's obligations. As several economists have pointed out that is just political talk not reality.
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Bluerobin
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Post by Bluerobin on Jul 18, 2011 9:01:34 GMT -5
The budget impasse has nothing to do with race. The Dems could not pass a budget when they had control so now they are crying about wanting to spend more money with no restrictions. Obama puts all his wishes in verbal terms not on paper. His fiscal plans are really a mystery so why would any Congress just lay out a blank check? By the way the US will not default on it's obligations. As several economists have pointed out that is just political talk not reality. Well said handy. Since they all feed at the same trough, I suspect the present debate is nothing more than a smoke screen.
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handyman2
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Post by handyman2 on Jul 18, 2011 9:08:21 GMT -5
Blue Robin: Why do you think the tea party exists in the first place? If there were not serious concerns as to the direction this country has taken do you think the tea party would have ever formed? I find it funny that a large group of middle aged Americans for the most part would be called extremists or gotten off the ground had there not been real problems facing us. True Bachman and Palin aspouse the tea party line but neither are serious contenders for the top job. But they do put the Tea Parties concerns front and center and that is their value to the extremists groups as you call them. Extremists? That is laughable.
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reasonfreedom
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Post by reasonfreedom on Jul 18, 2011 9:17:22 GMT -5
Is Debt Ceiling Impasse Due to Obama's Race? The impasse is due to two major issues (1) Spending Cuts and (2) Tax Increases.....and it is not just Liberals vs Conservatives but rather splits within each party...the progressives does NOT like the liberal ideas in the Dem party and the Tea Party does NOT like the conservative ideas in the Republican Party....so what you have is a wide, wide divide among the two parties... ROFLMAO, you called republicans conservatives? NOOB.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 18, 2011 9:17:25 GMT -5
THIS IS MY ENTIRE POINT. The TEA Party is America.
Paul I think a better description would be: The Tea Party is fed up America. Fed up with the Democratic & Republican Parties. Fed up with politics as usual. Fed up with the constitution being stepped on. The Tea Party is Americans that don't like the way things are going.
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Bluerobin
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Post by Bluerobin on Jul 18, 2011 9:18:54 GMT -5
Handy, they take the extreme view, while most of the populace is middle of the road. I think the politicians who listen to the radical left or radical right are in for a big surprise. If the Tea Party thinks they are that viable, they should form a legitmate 3rd party - that would really show how on target they are. The tea party exists because they are the extreme right wing of the Pub. They are NOT populist enough to become an actual party.
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