Obama asks to stay execution of Mexican citizen.

[Phoenix84]

Apparently this guy was convicted in 1994 of murder and was never told he could contact Mexico for counseling. Obama is asking to stay the execution until congress approves of the UN treaty requiring it. He thinks that if we fry this amigo that it will be hard on U.S citizens who are arrested abroad.

news.yahoo.com/blogs/lookout/obama-asks-stay-execution-texas-165829939.html

My big question is why did it take 17 years for them to figure this out? Don't you think sometime in the last 17 years this guy could write to Mexico and say "come help me!" I'm sure they didn't keep the trial and impending execution a secret. Why wait until the last second to address this?

I'm no lawyer, but my understanding is it won't matter anyway. The guy is convicted and the sentenced passed, it's going to get carried out sooner or later.

I also agree 100% with the supreme court ruling that states the United States doesn't have to obligate any international treaty, UN resolution, or international law that's not approved by Congress. We are a sovereign country and have every right to tell the UN to take a hike. I don't want UN bureaucrats making decisions about U.S policy.

What do you think?

[BeenThere...DoneThat...]

...I think I'll need more popcorn for this thread...

[Tigerwife3]

This case and the argument about the lack of legal counsel from Mexico has been in the courts for years. The argument is not new.

Upon his arrest, he was denied his rights under the Vienna Convention on Consular Relations and the U.N. Charter of which the U.S. is a signer.

If you were arrested overseas, would you not want assistance from the local U.S. consulate?

[❤ mollymouser ❤]

I think his sentence should be commuted to life in prison without possibility of parole.

[ed1066]

Jul 6, 2011 18:39:32 GMT -5 ❤ mollymouser ❤ said:

I think his sentence should be commuted to life in prison without possibility of parole.

Yes, in Mexico, please, so I don't have to pay for it...

[handyman2]

This could get tangled. Did he murder an American citizen or was it a citizen of another country? If it was an American citizen then it is simpler to execute him here but if a citizen of another country, that country may want to imprison him or execute him. lots of zigs and zags on this one.
i doubt he will want to be turned over to Mexico for they may shoot him at the border.

[Phoenix84]

"If you were arrested overseas, would you not want assistance from the local U.S. consulate?"

Of course. The first thing I'd do as soon as they let me was contact the U.S embassy.

Then what was the significance of the supreme court's ruling in 2008?

If the treaty is approved by congress, does this mean he'll get a mistrial and need to get retried for the cime?

[chiver78]

did anyone else notice the line in the article that said this could make things tough for Americans arrested abroad? the US never told these convicts that they could contact their own Consulates.

now, I come from some extensive business travel for my age. I travel with both US/Canadian passports, and know well enough before I leave to locate the closest embassy/consulate for both before I get there, just in case. I would know to contact the embassy/consulate first thing, but absolutely don't expect the average tourist to do so. I would hope that other countries wouldn't neglect to tell Americans they can contact their Consulate, but who knows?

[henryclay]

Mexico will not extradite certain cases to the US. In particular they will not extradite capital cases. But there are others, also. Like the woman, named " Campos-Campos"who is charged in Utah with felony hit and run in the death of a toddler. There are also several other cases. One was an El Paso murderer who ran back and forth to Mexico. Mexico wouldn't even pick him up. He was finally caught in, (or near), El Paso after a particularly brutal murder. I remember the case, but I have no idea where it went.

Perhaps the US could offer a swap of this POS. If they won't swap, (and what's new about them refusing to help the US do anything?). then fry his butt and send the "what's left" back across the Rio Grande in a plastic sack, C. O. D. with no return address.

[fairlycrazy23]

He has been in the US since he was 2, so he was not traveling here on vacation or business. Also it is my understanding that the US Senate has not given its advice or consent.

I also seriously doubt this will have any impact on US travel, the countries that want to treat US visitors well will continue to do so, those that don't it doesn't matter.

Humberto Leal later abducted this already brutally savaged teenager and raped her some more before finally ending your misery by crushing in her skull with a 35 lb chunk of asphalt. When police found her dead and ravaged body on the side of the dirt road where Leal left her, there was still a large stick that had a screw protruding from it that Leal left jammed up her lifeless body after he raped her with it.

[Deleted]

Ok. So... are people who have been here since they were 2 Americans? Or not?

[SweetVirginia]

Jul 6, 2011 20:43:00 GMT -5 oped said:

Ok. So... are people who have been here since they were 2 Americans? Or not?

They are if they got their citizenship since they have lived here. If they are here illegally, then they are not.

As for this guy, I dont care if he has been here since he was 2 or 25. He is a brutal murderer, he deserves to the full extent of his punishment. If an American citizen illegally entered another country then raped, tortured, and murdered a girl, then that country can have at him.

[Deleted]

But they don't all have our justice system. How can you be sure if guilt in some of these countries where accusation is enough to hang you?

[Deleted]

It's easy, today especially it seems, to complain about our system ... But it comes down to... Are you willing to give up your rights in order to get the outcome you so heartily desire?

[cereb]

Give him his Mexican consulate council. It won't help him, and then everybody can feel better at the end of the day that the right thing was done before he gets executed. Problem solved.

[SweetVirginia]

Jul 6, 2011 22:34:59 GMT -5 oped said:

It's easy, today especially it seems, to complain about our system ... But it comes down to... Are you willing to give up your rights in order to get the outcome you so heartily desire?

This guy deserves his punishment and should receive it. Americans will have to live with risk that might come with this monster getting what he has coming to him. That is my stance on this case anyway.

[fairlycrazy23]

This seems to be a similar case where the SCOTUS ruled that evidence did not need to be excluded because of treaty violation.
www.law.cornell.edu/supct/html/4-10566.ZS.html

SCOTUS ruled that states don't have to follow treaties or international law.
www.law.cornell.edu/supct/html/06-984.ZS.html
Heck, this guy might have been one of the 51.

But just for shits and giggles,if you are not allowed to determine if someone is not a US citizen, then how can you make sure the consulate is notified if they are arrested.

I'll be surprised if this dude isn't dead soon.

And also a Treaty can not supersede the Constitution, the Constitution is the Supreme law of the land and the President and the Senate can not do by Treaty what it can not be done with out by the Congress.

[Deleted]

Sounds good to me cereb.

[Phoenix84]

"Ok. So... are people who have been here since they were 2 Americans? Or not"

You should know that they're not Oped. I don't care if you were brought here as infant, you're not an American unless you were born here or naturalized through legal means, period end of story. I'm surprised you'd even ask that.

[SweetVirginia]

Jul 7, 2011 0:13:00 GMT -5 fairlycrazy23 said:

But just for shits and giggles,if you are not allowed to determine if someone is not a US citizen, then how can you make sure the consulate is notified if they are arrested.

Actually, you make a good point. The feds do not want the states to ask people if they are here legally or not, so how are the states supposed to allow arrested foreigners the opportunity to contact their consulates if they are not allowed to ask their legal status? It makes no sense.

[Deleted]

Give him a gun, knife, & a hand grenade & toss his but back over the border. I could care less what he does OVER THERE.

Oh wait, he would be back in this country in a day or so.

How about giving him a gun, knife, & a hand grenade & letting him stay in the white house with his friends.

[Phoenix84]

I think this guy is going to be killed today. I don't think Texas will reliquish him.

[❤ mollymouser ❤]

[SweetVirginia]

Jul 7, 2011 13:04:30 GMT -5 Phoenix84 said:

I think this guy is going to be killed today. I don't think Texas will reliquish him.

He had his day in court, he was found guilty. It seems that no one is really disputing his guilt. He deserves what is coming to him.

[floridayankee]

Jul 6, 2011 18:34:46 GMT -5 Tigerwife3 said:

Upon his arrest, he was denied his rights under the Vienna Convention on Consular Relations and the U.N. Charter of which the U.S. is a signer.

But the US cannot force states to abide by an international treaty....at least in this case. Perhaps this should have been addressed after Bush tried it in 2008?

Supreme Court Rules Bush Exceeded His Powers
By David G. Savage, Los Angeles Times

Saying he does not have "unilateral authority" to force states to comply with an international treaty, justices vote 6-3 to reject presidential order to reopen cases of foreign nationals.

Washington - The Supreme Court rebuffed President Bush on Tuesday for exceeding his powers under the law, ruling he does not have the "unilateral authority" to force state officials to comply with an international treaty.

The Constitution gives the president the power "to execute the laws, not make them," said Chief Justice John G. Roberts Jr. Unless Congress passes a law to enforce a treaty, the president usually cannot do it on his own, he said.

The 6-3 decision was a rare defeat for Bush in the courts, and it came in an unusual case that combined international law, foreign treaties and the fate of foreign nationals condemned to die in Texas, California and several other states.

In a surprise move three years ago, Bush intervened on the side of the Mexican government and said Texas prosecutors should reopen the cases of Jose Medellin, a Houston murderer, and several others serving death sentences. Bush cited the Vienna Convention, which obliges signing countries to notify each other when one of their citizens is arrested and charged with a serious crime. Mexico said American prosecutors failed repeatedly to give notice when Mexican natives were charged with capital crimes.

warisacrime.org/node/32186

www.martindale.com/members/Article_Atachment.aspx?od=311725&id=402198&filename=asr-402238.pdf

[floridayankee]

Jul 6, 2011 19:10:33 GMT -5 chiver78 said:

did anyone else notice the line in the article that said this could make things tough for Americans arrested abroad? the US never told these convicts that they could contact their own Consulates.

I'd imagine that most US Citizens traveling abroad are doing so legally and have papers to show that they are US Citizens. We are not allowed to ask people about citizenship. I guess this would be one of them unintended consequences.

[floridayankee]

Jul 6, 2011 22:42:13 GMT -5 cereb said:

Give him his Mexican consulate council. It won't help him, and then everybody can feel better at the end of the day that the right thing was done before he gets executed. Problem solved.

He's had it.

From 2010 to 2011, Leal was eventually visited by a member of the Mexican consulate more than 10 times, Judy Garces, press relations spokeswoman with the Mexican consulate in San Antonio, told CNN.

The state argued that Leal never revealed his Mexican citizenship at arrest, and his defense team never raised the consular access issue at trial.

Prosecutors also say the evidence against him was indisputable. The victim was tortured, and a bite mark on her body was matched to Leal. A bloody shirt belonging to Sauceda was discovered at the suspect's home.

IMHO, if you read this story and immediately think poor illegal alien rather than poor, tortured, raped, dead young lady, you have some seriously f'd up priorities.

[billisonboard]

Jul 7, 2011 14:25:00 GMT -5 floridayankee said:

..IMHO, if you read this story and immediately think poor illegal alien rather than poor, tortured, raped, dead young lady, you have some seriously f'd up priorities.

What if you read the story and immediately thought that this is one of those situations with a level of international legal complexity that needs to be dealt with on a rational rather than the typical emotional level that posters here use?

[cme1201]

Jul 7, 2011 14:36:04 GMT -5 billisonboard said:

Jul 7, 2011 14:25:00 GMT -5 floridayankee said:

..IMHO, if you read this story and immediately think poor illegal alien rather than poor, tortured, raped, dead young lady, you have some seriously f'd up priorities.

What if you read the story and immediately thought that this is one of those situations with a level of international legal complexity that needs to be dealt with on a rational rather than the typical emotional level that posters here use?

What Rational would you have us use?

Legal, He was arrested, read his miranda rights, Held in custody, interviewed, interrogated, He was given legal advice and aid, His Lawyer never raised question of status, He has been in prison since '94 or 17 years. He has used his last appeal by now I am sure and this is his hail mary last play.

[floridayankee]

Jul 7, 2011 14:36:04 GMT -5 billisonboard said:

What if you read the story and immediately thought that this is one of those situations with a level of international legal complexity that needs to be dealt with on a rational rather than the typical emotional level that posters here use?

IE, you thought....eh, just another dead tramp that probably deserved it...let's help the poor illegal alien.

Obviously I'm paraphrasing just a bit here.....

IMHO, TX did deal with this rationally. They arrested, tried and convicted a murderer. Now they want to carry out the sentencing. Sounds pretty rational. What I find irrational is the feds selectively ignoring the laws of our country and interfering in states issues.

Personally, I really don't give a crap what country you're from or what country your in, if you kill someone and are caught with your victims bloody shirt and a bite mark on the victim matches yours, you deserve whatever justice is handed out.