vonnie6200
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Post by vonnie6200 on Jun 28, 2011 18:25:20 GMT -5
#90 - other than the not voting - what drives you nuts here?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 28, 2011 18:26:38 GMT -5
HUH?? Why would you think I think you are after me? If I thought that you would be on ignore like several of the posters here. I'm probably more like you than you think. But I think the conservative in me is stronger, while the liberal in you is stronger.. or you just like to ..... actually, I think ...never mind..
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cereb
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Post by cereb on Jun 28, 2011 18:36:00 GMT -5
#90 - other than the not voting - what drives you nuts here? All of it. You want to go after the fraudsters then do it. I'm all for it. Boot the cheaters and put limits on babies born into the system with voluntary temporary sterilization while on benefits. On drugs? Got busted? You lose. No benefits for you. What people seem to forget is the majority of benefits are assigned for children. What many people forget is that there are many elderly and disabled persons receiving benefits. You segregate children, elderly and disabled by virtue of their poverty status and you now have really giant ghettos. Ghettos in America. Yep, lets build more ghettos, because it worked so well the last time we did it. <sarcasm>
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cereb
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Post by cereb on Jun 28, 2011 18:42:58 GMT -5
"Shirina- you are missing a fundamental point. These rights are not being denied. They are being voluntarily forfeited. If a person feels compelled to accept aid from others, there is a price to be paid."
People who are hungry, sick, homeless or cold will do a great many things in order to have those basic needs met, including giving up their basic rights.
It bothers me that you would ask a person to do that.
'Here's some food for you and your kids,, and a roof over your head, but wait, before you take a bite, know that we are going to invade your privacy, you will be labeled a second class citizen, oh wait...you can't vote either. But, your hungry, and your kids are hungry, so..are you good with that?"
Sorry, that's just gross.
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Post by BeenThere...DoneThat... on Jun 28, 2011 18:50:59 GMT -5
...meanwhile, it bothers me that a person would ask *this* of me...
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cereb
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Post by cereb on Jun 28, 2011 18:54:20 GMT -5
...meanwhile, it bothers me that a person would ask *this* of me... Please clarify?
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mmhmm
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Post by mmhmm on Jun 28, 2011 19:01:22 GMT -5
It depends on just how quick and dirty you play, dj. The quick part doesn't sound like it would generate problems. The dirty part could if it involves gross vulgarisms, personal attacks, or continued and unrelenting blanket insults (all <insert group here> are <insert insult here>). We're not really all that tough, and we will let you know if a line is crossed to give you an opportunity to remove the offense and learn from it. Some people imagine insult where no insult is intended, and some people feel they can't have a discussion involving politics without insulting someone, or some entire group. That's not the case for most adults with reasonable vocabularies. i meant "quick and dirty" in the vernacular sense. i will lay down an occasional well placed cuss word. but i really don't care for ad hominem, and avoid it so long as i am not attacked first. from this i would assume that my best chance of getting banned is if someone else takes that chance first? Probably so, dj. If one simply uses some common sense when posting, and doesn't have to stomp on everyone else's beliefs in favor of their own, they usually don't have any problems here. We certainly don't ban often, and it takes some work to make it happen. I felt that way before I started moderating and I feel it even more so now that I've come to know the moderators better.
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Post by ed1066 on Jun 28, 2011 19:04:14 GMT -5
Being a liberal doesn't hurt, either... ;D
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Shirina
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Post by Shirina on Jun 28, 2011 19:13:41 GMT -5
What's with the persecution complex?
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Post by BeenThere...DoneThat... on Jun 28, 2011 19:16:11 GMT -5
...meanwhile, it bothers me that a person would ask *this* of me... Please clarify? ...*this* meaning entitlement programs ad infinitum that continue to be the sacred cow of career politicians who value the collective over the individual...
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cereb
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Post by cereb on Jun 28, 2011 19:26:02 GMT -5
...*this* meaning entitlement programs ad infinitum that continue to be the sacred cow of career politicians who value the collective over the individual... Should some entitlement programs be cut or done away with? Absolutely. Should most of them? No. The poor, the disabled and the elderly need a voice in politics to stop "ahem" others who wish to institute draconian policies designed to do nothing more than denigrate, marginalize and ultimately vaporize those that they feel are inferior to them because of their poverty status. Frankly I just can't even fathom I am having this discussion in this day and age. It's chilling to say the least that some of my fellow Americans think this is actually a good idea. I try to believe the best in people. Today after reading this thread, I seem to need to re-evaluate that position.
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Post by BeenThere...DoneThat... on Jun 28, 2011 19:31:04 GMT -5
...*this* meaning entitlement programs ad infinitum that continue to be the sacred cow of career politicians who value the collective over the individual... Should some entitlement programs be cut or done away with? Absolutely. Should most of them? No. The poor, the disabled and the elderly need a voice in politics to stop "ahem" others who wish to institute draconian policies designed to do nothing more than denigrate, marginalize and ultimately vaporize those that they feel are inferior to them because of their poverty status. Frankly I just can't even fathom I am having this discussion in this day and age. It's chilling to say the least that some of my fellow Americans think this is actually a good idea. I try to believe the best in people. Today after reading this thread, I seem to need to re-evaluate that position. ...and you and I disagree on what "draconian" measures are "designed" to do... and, like you, I'm sometimes chilled that we Americans are still having this discussion in this day and age...
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cereb
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Post by cereb on Jun 28, 2011 19:42:02 GMT -5
Should some entitlement programs be cut or done away with? Absolutely. Should most of them? No. The poor, the disabled and the elderly need a voice in politics to stop "ahem" others who wish to institute draconian policies designed to do nothing more than denigrate, marginalize and ultimately vaporize those that they feel are inferior to them because of their poverty status. Frankly I just can't even fathom I am having this discussion in this day and age. It's chilling to say the least that some of my fellow Americans think this is actually a good idea. I try to believe the best in people. Today after reading this thread, I seem to need to re-evaluate that position. ...and you and I disagree on what "draconian" measures are "designed" to do... and, like you, I'm sometimes chilled that we Americans are still having this discussion in this day and age... History tells me what these policies are designed to do. Shirina brought up a couple, I'll give you another right here in the good ol US of A. Read the book "There Are No Children Here" by Alex Kotlowitz which covers 2 boys that grow up in Chicago's infamous housing authority slums. It also covers the "why" of the construction of these massive slums which were pretty much for the reasons I listed. Those slums have since been bulldozed and for very good reasons. Lets never, ever do something like that ever again. No child should ever be subjected to that kind of environment under the guise of "government care".
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pappyjohn99
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Post by pappyjohn99 on Jun 28, 2011 20:01:56 GMT -5
Shirina you're a funny girl.
Oh so many buzz words just to justify letting people live off the sweat of other peoples labor. Perhaps you should google " concentration camp". No person here said anything about marching people into ovens, yet this is an image you keep trying to conjure.
Soldiers in barracks, or students in dorms do not arouse cries of injustice, yet if welfare persons are expected to endure the slightest discomfort, or give anything for the benifits they recieve, you shout "epidemic disease, crime, and filth".
Your idea is to make the price so high, no one would ever wish to accept that aid.
If my child were hungry, there is no price I would find to high to feed him. But it is important to remember, I did not breed in order to feed out of the welfare trough, unlike so many these days.
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Post by BeenThere...DoneThat... on Jun 28, 2011 20:02:55 GMT -5
...and history tells me that *we* read often *our* history somewhat differently...
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Post by BeenThere...DoneThat... on Jun 28, 2011 20:04:49 GMT -5
Shirina you're a funny girl. Oh so many buzz words just to justify letting people live off the sweat of other peoples labor. Perhaps you should google " concentration camp". No person here said anything about marching people into ovens, yet this is an image you keep trying to conjure. Soldiers in barracks, or students in dorms do not arouse cries of injustice, yet if welfare persons are expected to endure the slightest discomfort, or give anything for the benifits they recieve, you shout "epidemic disease, crime, and filth". Your idea is to make the price so high, no one would ever wish to accept that aid.If my child were hungry, there is no price I would find to high to feed him. But it is important to remember, I did not breed in order to feed out of the welfare trough, unlike so many these days. ...well said... well, except for the funny girl part... that part was just, well, funny, imo...
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cereb
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Post by cereb on Jun 28, 2011 20:13:32 GMT -5
...and history tells me that *we* read often *our* history somewhat differently... I honestly don't know how you could view certain facts any differently than what they actually are. With that, I am done with this topic.
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AGB
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Post by AGB on Jun 28, 2011 23:16:14 GMT -5
Ever notice how Conservatives unashamedly flout their unconstitutional wishes? But silly me, wearing a flag lapel, wrapping myself in the flag, and talking about "going back to the Constitution" (whatever that is since they never seem to have gone to it the first time) is a much better thing to do. Also, let's put these things on people on corporate welfare. You people seem to dislike GE getting a huge return (of course this has nothing to do with Obama and Immelt, eh?) and you whine about the tax rate for the rich being so high without ever mentioning tax breaks, so to keep you honest, we might as well not give them any. What is unconstitutional about it?
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Jun 29, 2011 11:37:39 GMT -5
Being a liberal doesn't hurt, either... ;D really? i have it on good authority that the last three bannings were of a liberal poster.
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Post by privateinvestor on Jun 29, 2011 12:07:25 GMT -5
Being a liberal doesn't hurt, either... ;D really? i have it on good authority that the last three bannings were of a liberal poster. Are you talking to the three permabans or just the last three few days bans???
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Jun 29, 2011 12:40:08 GMT -5
really? i have it on good authority that the last three bannings were of a liberal poster. Are you talking to the three permabans or just the last three few days bans??? not sure. but since he is not here now, i think they were permabans.
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Post by Mkitty is pro kitty on Jun 29, 2011 13:02:37 GMT -5
Yes, let us see... "House Republicans slash funds for border security, immigration enforcement" www.homelandsecuritynewswire.com/house-republicans-slash-funds-border-security-immigration-enforcement"House Republicans voted to slash spending for border security and immigration enforcement for the remainder of this fiscal year by an estimated $600 million; the House budget allocates $350 million less for border security fencing, infrastructure, and technology than Congress approved last year, and $124 million below what DHS requested; the bill also cuts an estimated $159 million over last year for Customs and Border Protection modernization and construction programs, and is $40 million less than the agency sought to get the job done The U.S. House of Representatives voted mostly along party lines to slash spending by an estimated $600 million for border security and immigration enforcement for the remainder of this fiscal year, according to ABC News. The budget allocates $350 million less for border security fencing, infrastructure, and technology than Congress approved last year, and $124 million below what DHS requested. Democrats argue the House bill would shrink the Border Patrol by 870 agents and cut $272 million in funds for surveillance systems to monitor the border with Mexico, according to the New York Times. They said those cuts would cancel gains from a bill adopted last August, with virtually unanimous bipartisan support, that increased border funding by $600 million, adding 1,000 new agents to the Border Patrol." How about you go on your "envisioning quest" ; I suggest starting in Iowa, there are plenty of corn field strawmen there to help you along your way. Let us handle the "reality" part, you know, substantiated facts and such? Keep on shuckin'! ;D The 26th Amendment: 1. The right of citizens of the United States, who are eighteen years of age or older, to vote shall not be denied or abridged by the United States or by any State on account of age. www.usconstitution.net/const.html#Am26and the 14th 1. All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside. No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws. www.usconstitution.net/const.html#Am14
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floridayankee
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Post by floridayankee on Jun 29, 2011 13:43:32 GMT -5
The ignore feature was a bad idea. In a few months, this board will be utterly useless as conservatives will have ignored all liberals and probably vice-versa as well. Then we'll just see one massive back-patting party - not that it wasn't that before. Not this conservative. I rather enjoy debating with the left leaning posters. There are a small handful I would usually just skim over and and rarely reply to (can you say warsaw), but most posters on both sides of the political arena seem to be able to put together an intelligent post without having to throw out insults or idiotic conclusions such as liberals hate religion or conservatives hate poor people. Most of the time anyway.
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Shirina
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Post by Shirina on Jun 29, 2011 18:04:55 GMT -5
When you advocate putting people in a "barracks" with surprise daily inspections ... well, what would this be other than a concentration camp? Are you suggesting that these "barracks" would be placed in a nice, quiet residential neighborhood?
Of course, you don't see this as a concentration camp because you agree with putting them there yet the image of those types of camps are well known. You don't like the association, and the truthfulness of it only makes you avoid it even more.
Also, I never said anything about ovens. Nor did I mention anything about genocide. A concentration camp is not the exclusive domain of Nazis. I would use the word "internment camp," except the poor in this case wouldn't truly be "interred." So concentration camp is an adequate and truthful description of these "barracks."
Soldiers and students do not have their possessions seized and students do not have surprise inspections. In addition, dorms and barracks are not purpose-built to make people NOT want to live in them. I have no doubt that life in these poor houses will be made as uncomfortable and as irritating as possible just to keep people out of them. Like I said, this is not a new concept, historically speaking, and every time it was implemented, these places became cesspools.
Of course you didn't "breed" children. The term "breeding" is used almost exclusively in reference to animals. It calls into question why you would choose that word in regards to the poor, hmm?
And all of this in the name of simple, unadulterated greed.
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