AGB
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Jun 19, 2011 20:20:26 GMT -5
Post by AGB on Jun 19, 2011 20:20:26 GMT -5
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chiver78
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Jun 19, 2011 20:24:06 GMT -5
Post by chiver78 on Jun 19, 2011 20:24:06 GMT -5
um, they cut out "indivisible" too, if you're going solely on students' voices. the soldier in the background clearly said "under god" in the clip. care to replay that one yourself?
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Deleted
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Jun 19, 2011 20:42:22 GMT -5
Post by Deleted on Jun 19, 2011 20:42:22 GMT -5
Personally, Under God never should have been added in the first place...
(actually... I'm not convinced we need a pledge at all... )
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NoMoreLunacy
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Jun 19, 2011 21:45:09 GMT -5
Post by NoMoreLunacy on Jun 19, 2011 21:45:09 GMT -5
One benefit of sending my kid to an International School is that he doesn't have to submit himself to that nonsense.
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Deleted
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Jun 19, 2011 22:02:31 GMT -5
Post by Deleted on Jun 19, 2011 22:02:31 GMT -5
yeah that "liberty and justice for all" part is such a troubling concept.
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NoMoreLunacy
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Jun 19, 2011 22:14:24 GMT -5
Post by NoMoreLunacy on Jun 19, 2011 22:14:24 GMT -5
yeah that "liberty and justice for all" part is such troubling concept. The nonsensical part is the under god BS.
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hello fromWarsaw
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Jun 19, 2011 22:15:16 GMT -5
Post by hello fromWarsaw on Jun 19, 2011 22:15:16 GMT -5
Under God is a McCarthy era addition. Try and remain calm...
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Tennesseer
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Jun 19, 2011 22:29:02 GMT -5
Post by Tennesseer on Jun 19, 2011 22:29:02 GMT -5
Should we go back to how we saluted the U.S. flag between 1892 and 1942 too?
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AGB
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Jun 19, 2011 22:45:22 GMT -5
Post by AGB on Jun 19, 2011 22:45:22 GMT -5
um, they cut out "indivisible" too, if you're going solely on students' voices. the soldier in the background clearly said "under god" in the clip. care to replay that one yourself? They did indeed... fyi, I didn't make the clip, so I didn't get to name it. Not sure I agree with you on the voice in the background, but you'd think someone would have noticed it was a little off when they edited this?
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hello fromWarsaw
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Jun 19, 2011 23:08:26 GMT -5
Post by hello fromWarsaw on Jun 19, 2011 23:08:26 GMT -5
Socialist? I don't think so
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Deleted
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Jun 19, 2011 23:17:26 GMT -5
Post by Deleted on Jun 19, 2011 23:17:26 GMT -5
The very idea that you woudl have to pledge a symbol is the antithesis of liberty and freedom... the only reason they added 'Under God' during McCarthyism, is because so many people were pointing out that the pledge was almost the same as the kind of thing the communists required... and somehow 'under god' was supposed to make it different??
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Deleted
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Jun 19, 2011 23:28:02 GMT -5
Post by Deleted on Jun 19, 2011 23:28:02 GMT -5
In 1892, 1923, 1924 and 1954 the American people demonstrated enough concern about the actual words in the Pledge to make some necessary changes. Today there may be a tendency among many Americans to recite "by rote" with little thought for the words themselves. Before continuing with our tour, let's examine these 31 words a little more thoroughly.
I Pledge Allegiance I Promise to be faithful and true (Promise my loyalty) to the flag to the emblem that stands for and represents of the United States all 50 states, each of them individual, and individually represented on the flag of America yet formed into a UNION of one Nation. and to the Republic And I also pledge my loyalty to the Government that is itself a Republic, a form of government where the PEOPLE are sovereign, for which it stands, this government also being represented by the Flag to which I promise loyalty. one Nation under God, These 50 individual states are united as a single Republic under the Divine providence of God, "our most powerful resource" (according to the words of President Eisenhower) Indivisible, and can not be separated. (This part of the original version of the pledge was written just 30 years after the beginning of the Civil War and demonstrates the unity sought in the years after that divisive period in our history) with Liberty The people of this Nation being afforded the freedom to pursue "life, liberty, and happiness", and Justice And each person entitled to be treated justly, fairly, and according to proper law and principle, for All. And these principles afforded to EVERY AMERICAN, regardless of race, religion, color, creed, or any other criteria. Just as the flag represents 50 individual states that can not be divided or separated, this Nation represents millions of people who can not be separated or divided. Thus it is that when you Pledge Allegiance to the United States Flag, You: *Promise your loyalty to the Flag itself. *Promise your loyalty to your own and the other 49 States. *Promise your loyalty to the Government that unites us all, Recognizing that we are ONE Nation under God, That we can not or should not be divided or alone, And understanding the right to Liberty and Justice belongs to ALL of us.
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hello fromWarsaw
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Jun 19, 2011 23:34:20 GMT -5
Post by hello fromWarsaw on Jun 19, 2011 23:34:20 GMT -5
Francis Bellamy was a minister and a Christian Socialist- which is totally different from regular socialism... The Pledge of Allegiance was written in 1892 by Francis Bellamy (1855–1931), who was a Baptist minister, a Christian socialist, and the cousin of socialist utopian novelist Edward Bellamy (1850–1898). Bellamy "viewed his Pledge as an 'inoculation' that would protect immigrants and native-born but insufficiently patriotic Americans from the 'virus' of radicalism and subversion."[
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Deleted
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Jun 20, 2011 10:33:20 GMT -5
Post by Deleted on Jun 20, 2011 10:33:20 GMT -5
LOL!! The APOLOGY... Maybe they thought no one would notice or care???
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Deleted
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Jun 20, 2011 10:37:41 GMT -5
Post by Deleted on Jun 20, 2011 10:37:41 GMT -5
Why DOES anyone care?
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Mad Dawg Wiccan
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Jun 20, 2011 11:12:25 GMT -5
Post by Mad Dawg Wiccan on Jun 20, 2011 11:12:25 GMT -5
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Deleted
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Jun 20, 2011 11:36:57 GMT -5
Post by Deleted on Jun 20, 2011 11:36:57 GMT -5
Interesting, Dawg. I don't see why people have a problem with the word God. In AA and other 12 step programs God has been defined in a way that works for many millions of people with DIFFERENT beliefs in what a higher power means to them. I find it hard to believe a COUNTRY cannot come to the same agreement a bunch of recovering addicts can. Absurd, IMO.
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Deleted
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Jun 20, 2011 12:18:21 GMT -5
Post by Deleted on Jun 20, 2011 12:18:21 GMT -5
So... its one nation under any number of higher powers, however you choose to define it... ?
That may take longer to say...
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Deleted
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Jun 20, 2011 12:19:18 GMT -5
Post by Deleted on Jun 20, 2011 12:19:18 GMT -5
And so... if you don't care WHO someone means when they say it, you shouldn't care if they DON'T say it... is it somehow less patriotic if you leave God out of it?
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henryclay
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Jun 20, 2011 22:17:10 GMT -5
Post by henryclay on Jun 20, 2011 22:17:10 GMT -5
Probably not any more than taking "Legal Tender" off our money. And why not, doesn't everybody use plastic now anyway? Showing any sign of patriotism is so old hat. We don't need any show of patriotism any more. Heck, we're a melted pot/ Somebody else can take the responsibility for what we leave to our kids and their kids. If anybody tries to take anything away from them and they're not capable of keeping it, maybe they "should" lose it.
And Tennesseer, the pictures are just what a progressive press would publish. The old Pledge called for starting with the hand over the heart and at the words "the flag" extending the arm PALM UP to indicate THIS flag.
The pictures you posted are an example of ignorance and one of the reasons the gesture was dropped during WWII.
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Deleted
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Jun 20, 2011 22:19:22 GMT -5
Post by Deleted on Jun 20, 2011 22:19:22 GMT -5
I'm confused? What is someone tryigng to take away from our kids? ...
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henryclay
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Jun 20, 2011 22:27:22 GMT -5
Post by henryclay on Jun 20, 2011 22:27:22 GMT -5
If you need an explanation, it's more than likely that no explanation would be good enough for you.
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Jun 20, 2011 22:34:08 GMT -5
Post by marshabar1 on Jun 20, 2011 22:34:08 GMT -5
Heard today that a middle school class wanted to sing the classic, "When the Saints Go Marching In" but were required to change the saints into ants.
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Deleted
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Jun 20, 2011 22:40:55 GMT -5
Post by Deleted on Jun 20, 2011 22:40:55 GMT -5
Saints are not PC, either?? But didn't they make Mother Theresa a saint?? Doesn't everybody love her for her endless charity work?
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Deleted
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Jun 20, 2011 22:45:03 GMT -5
Post by Deleted on Jun 20, 2011 22:45:03 GMT -5
There was no pledge when the country was founded. The words Under God were not added to the pledge until the 1950s.
?? So what exactly is being taken away?
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Jun 20, 2011 22:46:34 GMT -5
Post by marshabar1 on Jun 20, 2011 22:46:34 GMT -5
There was no pledge when the country was founded. The words Under God were not added to the pledge until the 1950s. ?? So what exactly is being taken away? A GOOD tradition. I know, anathema to those who prefer EVIL chaos.
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Deleted
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Jun 20, 2011 22:50:22 GMT -5
Post by Deleted on Jun 20, 2011 22:50:22 GMT -5
Why is it a good tradition? It is anathema to suggest that free people have to prove their loyalty to their country with a pledge... Why did they change the 'good tradition' in the first place? Why did they change it if it was so good?
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Jun 20, 2011 23:02:04 GMT -5
Post by marshabar1 on Jun 20, 2011 23:02:04 GMT -5
Why is it a good tradition? It is anathema to suggest that free people have to prove their loyalty to their country with a pledge... Why did they change the 'good tradition' in the first place? Why did they change it if it was so good? It's good because it engenders good will and respect and patriotism in children's hearts. There are plenty of immigrant children who are very proud to be able to call this country their own and to have a moment to express that loyalty. It's just some liberal parents who think the United States is a terrible country who don't want that for their children. Perhaps a world war and floods of new citizens encouraged the practice in order to cement the new relationship of people to this nation. Do you object to immigrants being loyal to the nation to which they immigrate?
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Deleted
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Jun 20, 2011 23:17:56 GMT -5
Post by Deleted on Jun 20, 2011 23:17:56 GMT -5
So the only way to be proud is to say a pledge? To a symbol? ...
And if i think forcing people to say a pledge, especially one that includes the word under god, smacks of communism..... then i think this is a terrible country? ...
interesting premise...
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henryclay
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Jun 20, 2011 23:22:52 GMT -5
Post by henryclay on Jun 20, 2011 23:22:52 GMT -5
Again, if you need an explanation, it's more than likely none would be good enough, but in this case I'll try.
Try to think of it like it was the right to have an abortion. We haven't had that one as long as we've had "under God" in the Pledge, so it may be easier to relate to. If you don't want to have an abortion, all you have to do is just not say the words. And if you don't want to say "under God" all you have to do is just not say the words.
And if you still don't understand, I'm not surprised. But it's the best I can do.
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