Federal Debt Tops $14 Trillion, Treasury Report

[vl]

The national debt has risen by $1 trillion since June, reaching a new high of more than $14 trillion, the U.S. Treasury reported on its website Monday. The new high was reached on Friday.



Read more: notmsnmoney.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=politics&action=display&thread=964#ixzz1A4KqiJLm

Pull the troops out of the Middle East and stop giving money to the stupes on Wall Street and we'd see that expenditure volume tone right down.
I'm only interested in my ELECTED officials running the nation, not generals and banksters. It isn't a national problem, it's addiction to cause spending.

[rockon]

This debt will be the death of our country as we now know it. While many are still interested in fighting over ideology, personal politics and how to provide more governmental support to more people our debt load continues to sky rocket. The service cost alone on this debt will shortly severely limit the amount of money our government has left to expend on essential services and it will be the fault of the people who continue to back and support this expansive government philosophy.

[floridayankee]

Jan 6, 2011 9:39:01 GMT -5 rockon said:

This debt will be the death of our country as we now know it. While many are still interested in fighting over ideology, personal politics and how to provide more governmental support to more people our debt load continues to sky rocket. The service cost alone on this debt will shortly severely limit the amount of money our government has left to expend on essential services and it will be the fault of the people who continue to back and support this expansive government philosophy.

That is why I cannot approve of a costly new spending bill even as noble as the 9/11 bill. No matter how good our intentions are at this point, we can't afford it.

[fairlycrazy23]

Even though it is a noble cause to pay for the health care for the 9-11 responders, the bill should have followed pay-go, but does seem somewhat high since it should be covering only uncovered expenses.

As far as the debt, spending needs to be cut across the board, including defense, even though i'm fairly hawkish, to me it seems like our defense spending dwarfs everybody else and there is cuts that can be made there, this would also single that the new GOP was serious about spending cuts

[deziloooooo]

Secretary Gates Has said that he will be asking the Military to find $100 Billion in cuts, see the posted link.
One of the proposals is a command center closing in Virginia and if you notice, the Congressionals there, Virginia, are up in arms about it.
I don't even know the parties these folks belong to, and I am sure it makes no difference, It is what happens when these cuts are proposed, out of the wood works they come.
The reality is, some interests will be hurt when ever something is not funded, whether it is a company that makes something, a state that has the factories that make it or in the case of the Pentagon, they lose $ and cancel programs that those who sit on those departments have a interest in...to cut anything in the government is a bitch...and is usually ineffective after all the special interests get rolling in their fight against the cut backs.

Gates Says Defense Bureaucracy Swollen, Declares Cuts

www.bloomberg.com/news/2010-08-09/gates-says-defense-bureaucracy-bloated-declares-cuts-in-contractor-jobs.html

[deziloooooo]

Gates is supposed to be leaving shortly from what I understand..he's been there a long time and wants some down time that he is entitled to.
The one appointed to replace him, appointed by the President, but having to go through a hearing with law makers, will he be able to pass that if he says he will follow up with Gates proposal and still get confirmed by the law makers...
Since O'bama is in favot of the cuts I expect the one proposed for the job will be of the same mind..but the confirmation of , will be interesting to watch.
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Gates Says Defense Bureaucracy Swollen, Declares Cuts
By Viola Gienger - Aug 10, 2010 1:26 PM ET
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U.S. Defense Secretary Robert Gates speaking in Washington. Photographer: Paul J. Richards/AFP/Getty Images
Defense Secretary Robert Gates said the Pentagon needs to save money by further reducing a “cumbersome” U.S. military hierarchy, setting up potential battles with members of Congress who support targeted programs.

Gates announced plans yesterday to lop spending on support contractors by more than one-quarter over three years and close a military command in Norfolk, Virginia, that coordinates planning and training across military branches. He said the savings would be used to sustain the U.S. force and improve weapons for future threats.

“We must be mindful of the difficult economic and fiscal situation facing our nation,” Gates told reporters at the Pentagon. The department can’t expect Congress “to approve budget increases each year unless we are doing a good job -- indeed, everything possible to make every dollar count.”

While the ability of Congress to stop the cuts is limited, lawmakers may opt to use their budget authority to block funding for closures or restore programs.

The Norfolk-based Joint Forces Command, with an operating budget of almost $704 million, employs 6,324 personnel, including about 3,300 contractors. Gates said the changes, yet to be worked out, will mean “hardships” for displaced workers.

Lawmakers Respond

Virginia Democrat Jim Webb, a member of the Senate Armed Services Committee that oversees the Pentagon, said cutting Joint Forces “would be a step backward.” He vowed to “carefully examine the justifications for this decision as well as its implications for the greater Norfolk community.”

Virginia’s Republican Governor Bob McDonnell yesterday established a commission to fight for the “unparalleled array of military and non-military national security facilities” in his state, including the Pentagon in Arlington, the Central Intelligence Agency headquarters in Langley and the world’s largest naval base in Norfolk.

The top Republican on the House Armed Services Committee, Howard P. “Buck” McKeon of California, said Gates will have to ensure the moves “will not weaken our nation’s defense.”

Gates has won some campaigns to cut costs, including curtailing or canceling almost 20 programs this fiscal year that the department said would have cost more than $300 billion.

He’s still pressing lawmakers to abandon proposals to buy more Boeing Co. C-17 cargo planes and an alternate engine General Electric Co. would make for Lockheed Martin Corp.’s F-35 Joint Strike Fighter. United Technologies Corp.’s Pratt & Whitney supplies the primary engine.

‘Responsible and Accountable’

The defense chief yesterday said he remains “confident” that President Barack Obama will veto legislation containing those items.

Obama, in a statement, said Gates’s latest proposed savings “advanced our effort to invest in the defense capabilities that we need in the 21st century, while being responsible and accountable in spending taxpayer dollars.” The defense chief is scheduled to meet with Obama today.

Gates presented his latest steps as a way to prevent more severe reductions by a Congress that’s looking for ways to cut the federal deficit even as the military faces “a more unstable world.” Neither he nor officials who briefed reporters in more detail gave figures for how much money would be saved by the measures or the number of jobs that might be cut.

$100 Billion

The cuts are aimed at generating enough savings to supplement the planned annual budget increases of 1 percent above inflation and generate 2 percent to 3 percent annual real growth that Gates says will be needed in force structure and weapons purchases.

Gates in June ordered the military services to find more than $100 billion in overhead savings that they could reroute to higher priorities. That process is still under way, and Gates said the services are “thinking about some pretty dramatic things.”

“They are all planning to eliminate headquarters that are no longer needed and reduce the size of the staffs they retain,” Gates said. He also authorized military departments to consider closing “excess bases and other facilities where appropriate,” a process that may run into congressional restrictions on closing installations.

“This is obviously a politically fraught topic,” Gates said. “I hope Congress will work with us.”

The secretary said he discussed beforehand the cuts announced yesterday in broad terms with the Democratic and Republican leaders of the armed services and appropriations committees in the House and Senate and they were “supportive.”

Freezing Staff Sizes

Gates, who told Obama in December that he’d stay in his job at least through this year, also froze the size of the staffs in his office, the combatant commands and some other agencies for the next three years and ordered a review of which positions should be retained.

Intelligence operations established by various arms of the Defense Department will be consolidated and funding for their contractors will drop 10 percent, he said.

The defense bureaucracy has “swelled to cumbersome and top-heavy proportions,” Gates said. Added spending since the Sept. 11 terror attacks has doubled the Pentagon’s base budget over the past decade, Gates has said.

Next, Gates aims to control the department’s burgeoning health-care costs, to revise personnel policies and to implement more restructuring and acquisition reform.

‘No Sacred Cows’

“There are no sacred cows, and health care cannot be excepted from that,” Gates said. “Everybody knows that we’re being eaten alive by health care. I believe there is a growing understanding” in Congress.

The Joint Forces Command has struggled to meet the goals set when it was established, said Todd Harrison, a senior fellow for defense budget studies at the Center for Strategic and Budgetary Assessments in Washington. The command is one of 10 in the military hierarchy.

“One of the reasons it was formed was to worry about the future and to get ahead of problems, to think ahead to the next conflict and prepare for it,” Harrison said. “But they’ve never really lived up to the expectations.”

Yesterday’s announcement won’t be the last, Gates said.

“I am determined to change the way this department has done business for a long time,” he said

[floridayankee]

Jan 6, 2011 14:18:30 GMT -5 deziloooooo said:

Secretary Gates Has said that he will be asking the Military to find $100 Billion in cuts, see the posted link.
One of the proposals is a command center closing in Virginia and if you notice, the Congressionals there, Virginia, are up in arms about it.
I don't even know the parties these folks belong to, and I am sure it makes no difference, It is what happens when these cuts are proposed, out of the wood works they come.

You must not come from a military town. Let me tell you why they come out of the woodwork.......

In RI, Quonset Point (where quonset huts get their name by the way) Naval Air Station was closed down (deactivated...A small wing of the Air National Guard still operates out of there I believe) in the mid 70's and the surrounding area pretty much went to hell...IMHO.

While still an active base, Naval Station Newport, RI used to be home to Cruiser-Destroyer Force Atlantic Fleet. When the active fleet pulled out, things got real quiet for the area. It was a real shame to see all that housing for both the NAVSTA Newport and NAS Quonset Point sitting there rotting.

The presence of an active base is a boon for any town...and locals as well as politicians will always fight to keep them. I know, I work a few miles from the gates of MacDill AFB MacDill currently supports around 3,000 people in the immediate command and 12,000+ additional personnel in the more than 50 other commands / detachments assigned to MacDill.

Needless to say, the military brings a lot of people that spend a lot of money to a city/town and nobody wants to lose "theirs", just "yours".

[Savoir Faire-Demogague in NJ]

With regard to cuts in the military. Closing bases, cutting procurements, can turn a region that is affected into an economic wasteland.
Back in the 70s when the Navy pulled out of Davisville & Quonsett Point, it devastated Rhode Island. And the state decayed into an economic wasteland. I lived in Rhode Island after getting out of college. I moved to NJ in the mid-80s.

[deziloooooo]

You absolutely correct, a neophyte on this I am not. Lived most of my life in Connectiut..there is a place in New London..submarine base..and know many other bases in New England...familier with Newport..had a Army Physical there years ago when I was in ROTC at my university..long story...but we are 14 trillion in debt..there are places, bases, programs no longer needed..so while they come out of the wood work..if they are not needed from a military standpoint and in the case of the one in Virginia..a expensive think tank for future wars..let them think else where...

[Savoir Faire-Demogague in NJ]

Yup, I am quite familiar with Electric Boat in Groton, CT. My brother in law worked there.

[deziloooooo]

Electric Boat is a private company...I meant the Sub Base in New London..almost closed a few years ago..wanted to move all Subs to Virginia..think they made a good presentation to Defense[Sure there was arm twisting} because of the subs there..electric boat being there, the close working relationship of..repairs of , updates ..like peanut butter and jelly..go together..hope they still like the combination.

[Deleted]

I live in Tucson, AZ. The 3 largest employers in this city are the college, the military base, and Raytheon. It would wipe Tucson out if the base went away. We have the boneyard-- place they store all the retired aircraft. Supposedly that keeps our base safe, because we have this incredibly hard clay earth that can hold the weight, and also the logistics of moving all those aircraft.
That said-- the debt is out of control, and needs to be dealt with. I hear lots of talk about cuts... which sounds really good, but it always comes to me-- even if the cuts are cuts to government, and people want government to shrink--- problem is those are PEOPLE working those jobs-- people that have income, spend money, pay taxes, etc. Putting more people out of work when jobs are scarce makes me real nervous. SHRINKING salaries and benefits down to what the private sector comparable jobs make sounds fair to me, but eliminating jobs makes me queasy.
I am a disgusted conservative that is scared to death about where this country is right now.

[Savoir Faire-Demogague in NJ]

Jan 6, 2011 16:22:00 GMT -5 deziloooooo said:

Electric Boat is a private company...I meant the Sub Base in New london..almost closed a few years ago..wantted to move allSubs to Virginia..think they made a good presentation to Defense[Sure there was arm twisting} because of the subs there..electric boat being there, the close working relationship of..repairs of , updates ..like peanut butter and jelly..go together..hope they still like the combination.

Oh, I did not know that. I don't live up there.

[floridayankee]

Jan 6, 2011 16:00:59 GMT -5 Savoir Faire-Demogague in NJ said:

With regard to cuts in the military. Closing bases, cutting procurements, can turn a region that is affected into an economic wasteland.
Back in the 70s when the Navy pulled out of Davisville & Quonsett Point, it devastated Rhode Island. And the state decayed into an economic wasteland. I lived in Rhode Island after getting out of college. I moved to NJ in the mid-80s.

Quonset Point (The SeaBees in Davisville were located inside the confines of Quonset Point BTW) were small potatoes compared to losing the Cruiser-Destroyer Force Atlantic fleet (or living on the island, perhaps I was simply affected more by it...who knows). But, in total, all of these closures took a huge transient military population out of the area. Thankfully, we still had the Naval War College and Naval Undersea Warfare Center (formerly NUSC) along with several other smaller units/detachments.

By the time I left, southern RI was becoming more of an escape for New Yorker's trying to get away from the city.

[deziloooooo]

Krickitt since they are talking government cut backs..yes a lot of jobs, government , will be phased out.

They will either move to other areas of if qualified or openings, or many will retire..there definitely are going to be pain with these cuts..but as you said , your concerned, your a conservative, {thought the test showed you middle to right, to balance off my middle to the left].

The debt of 14 trillion and going up as I type..just the interest of..believe for every $ that comes into government the interest on the debt takes over .40 cents of that, not leaving much for anything else.

For the financial people, what would happen if a Presidential decree came out that we will honor our debt BUT we are cutting the interest paid on it by 50% and we will not redeem any debt returned to us for a complete Pay out?

Naturally we still have to cut spending as no one will be buying our paper..but we use the interest on the debt that then wouldn't be paid to redeem at our pace the paper out there, so the principal is going back to the ones holding the paper..they are getting their capital back..just not any / less interest paid on it.

One thing about our debt..we are considered a safe place to have debt , no one is going to mess with us in that way..but desperate matters some times desperate action has to be taken.

Not suggesting to do so, just wonder what the the ramifications of and could we live with them, realize big fall out , however..if not to do anything is just a recipe for disaster..what about drastic measures for our survival and recovery?

Any thoughts those who are knowlegable about such things?

[deziloooooo]

By the way, nothing to do with the thread and above comments, but has anyone else notice a slow down when one posts, uses the spellcheck..a long hesitation, or is it just me, been that way for a bit i notice, on my end but was wondering if others are experiencing it.
possible i should reboot..I am such a doofus with the computer and it's workings.

[deziloooooo]

that post took a full 20 seconds if not more.

[Savoir Faire-Demogague in NJ]

For the financial people, what would happen if a Presidential decree came out that we will honor our debt BUT we are cutting the interest paid on it by 50% and we will not redeem any debt returned to us for a complete Pay out?

A lot of federal paper is sitting in mutual funds that are contained in 10s of millions of middle class 401Ks, IRAs, and other such plans, as well as 1000s of pension plans.

[deziloooooo]

ok...mmmm, I was going to then come back and say , well then those funds could move the investments to other invstments BUT forgot that I also said , Gov't was not going to redeem the paper at once..such as a sell out, run on the bank...mmmmm...back to the drawing board. [I hate these people with their reasonable picky, picky little tear apart ideas, thoughts and reasonable explanations }

[Deleted]

From what I can gather, the debt limit will be increased, but with strong language about blahblahblah. Sounds like more of the same to me. Sure, they can SAY blahblahblah-- but they never DO anything except lie, from what I see. I saw the new people on TV, lots of them, and I like what they are saying-- but-- OBAMA said good things, according to some, and they are angry at him now.
I really hope the new blahblahblah will turn out to be REAL.

[floridayankee]

Jan 6, 2011 16:44:19 GMT -5 deziloooooo said:

that post took a full 20 seconds if not more.

C'mon "old man"...step boldly into the '90's and upgrade that Comodore 64!!

Might I suggest a stylish, (almost) cutting edge IBM 8088??

[zipity]

The top Republican on the House Armed Services Committee, Howard P. “Buck” McKeon of California, said Gates will have to ensure the moves “will not weaken our nation’s defense.”

I think this attitude needs to change a bit. The question isn't will this weaken our nation's defense, the question should be is our nation's defense sufficient to meet the threats facing us. The US spends many times more on defense than any other country in the world. Would cutting our expenditures in Europe make us more vulnerable or would it force Europeans to step up to the plate and spend more on their own defense. Same question for every other area of the world where our troops are now based. We could also examine how we might be effect the danger posed by some of today's threats. For example (and this is just and 'extreme' example), for every dollar we don't spend on foreign oil, that's one less dollar that could potentially end up in the hands of al qaeda. Perhaps we should also consider a new mission for the military, forget being a watchdog for the world and focus instead on protecting our immediate shores.
As an aside, even if Gates cuts defense by $100 billion I would expect the new congress to follow through on their promise to find $100 billion in 'discretionary' spending which as you may recall was to exclude defense spending.

[handyman2]

The question is can the military streamline it's operations and still maintain our readiness capability. In my mind the answer is yes.
The problem for Gates is not can he get it done but getting past the politicians who say not at the expense of my state or district.