Can equality exist in the Jewish state?

[deziloooooo]

Found a article , new one in al Jazeer that raises some very disturbing points about the Arab Israeli treatment in Israel, as a minority.

New laws being passed by a very hard line , conservative administration and PM, and if they are really needed , or many just more "in your face " type draconian rules , possible to encourage movement out of Israel proper , to the territory's.

Or just more separation of the Israeli Arab from the populace , a new kind of apartheid , similar to the South African type or possible the segregation of our own Pre Civil rights era here in the States.

There is also much harrassment of the Arab legislators by their fellows in the kbnesset, onme had tro go into exile, another sripped of her credentials, looked upon as atraitor byt he hard line legislatures, seven of them actually attacked physically over the years by Israeli security services , things you expect in many of the Arab countries surrounding th State but not happening in the State by their own services. Very desturbing to me.

What ever the reason, to me it seems that for a democracy, which Israel is, and which they shout to the world as being one, there are basic rights of citizens , a certain segment of them , that is being curtailed purposely to see that they may have rights as state citizens but not the same ones as the majority, which after a while could also be put on other groups in the society, possible even opposition parties.

Why not? Once down that road, the going is always easier for the next group of regulations and legislation to be passed.

Grant you that al Jazeer has their own agenda, but this is a thought piece of a commentator , and I did some googling and a lot of this is happening, with different concerns being expressed, not all good, and that is also from Israeli's just not the Arab Israelis.


Because it is a piece from al jazeer , to just dismiss it, your right , but not by me, some storys our main stream really are not comfortable to carry and report on, sorry to say, but true.
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english.aljazeera.net/indepth/opinion/2011/06/2011648192849821.html
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[Click on links to read articles]
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Opinion

Can equality exist in the Jewish state?

As right-wingers dominate the Knesset, Arab citizens of Israel say institutional discrimination is getting worse.
Kieron Monks Last Modified: 04 Jun 2011 17:33

Arab citizens of Israel face discrimination in employment, education, and housing opportunities [GALLO/GETTY]

"In 2005, following the arrest of several high profile Arab politicians and lobbyists living in Israel, the Shin Bet security agency made a statement justifying their actions: "The security service will thwart the activity of any group or individual seeking to harm the Jewish and democratic character of the State of Israel, even if such activity is sanctioned by the law."

The statement highlighted a fundamental tension between democratic freedom in Israel, and the need to maintain its Jewish character. Thwarting harm to that character has been extrapolated to require controls on Israel's Arab minority in many departments of society, from education to the right of dissent. The need to ensure Jewish demographic and institutional domination has prompted a raft of controversial policies and practises.

The conflict is most revealing at the level of political representation. Israel can point to the presence of 14 Arab Knesset members out of 120 as evidence of its civil rights credentials. Proportionally this is a reasonably fair reflection of a minority that accounts for 18 per cent of Israel's population; given that the Arab community habitually votes in lower numbers.

In practise, the mandate to represent Arab concerns dictates that they work against - rather than with - the rest of parliament. Knesset Member Haneen Zouabi of the Balad party is open about her role being fundamentally oppositional. "I was elected to speak for those who voted for me, not to reinforce the Zionist consensus," she says. "My role is to represent injustice and to make it more visible." Zouabi has long argued against the legitimacy of a Jewish state for allowing "institutionalised discrimination", instead favouring "a bi-national state not based on ethnicity".

She has suffered for her beliefs. After participating in the 2010 Gaza flotilla, aimed at breaking the Israeli siege, a seven to one majority voted to strip her of parliamentary privileges. Likud Knesset Member Danny Danon called for her to be tried for treason, and there were attempts to disqualify her party from elections. The hostility was so great that Zouabi was forced to travel with an armed escort. A year later she remains a pariah in parliament, branded a traitor and a terrorist-sympathiser.

Exiling civil rights

Others have suffered more. Azmi Bishara, also of the Balad party, was the leading voice of the Arab civil rights campaign. Despite attempts to disqualify him, Bishara became the first Arab citizen to run for the office of Prime Minister. Throughout his career Bishara faced numerous investigations from the Shin Bet. He was forced to resign in 2007, and went into exile abroad, in the wake of spurious charges of espionage.

Such attacks on Arab politicians are not exceptional, and some have been more serious than political expulsion. A 2002 report from the Human Rights Association of Nazareth documented nine cases of Arab Knesset Members being assaulted by security services over the preceding two years, seven of whom were hospitalised. In addition, the state had opened 25 criminal investigations against Arab Knesset Members over the same time period."

[ed1066]

Why don't you post an article about the treatment Jewish legislators get in Arab nations? Oh, wait, there aren't any...

[deziloooooo]

There are none ed, but not all is as sweet and good here either as some like to suggest . Better it isn't known, not posted , better kept quiet? Possible the way you feel, I don't.

Even if the article is biased a bit, if it is...is some of this stuff relly necessary, or just a way to make sure where a people know their place in society and don't dare think they really have any rights similer to the majority.

[Value Buy]

Dezi, I watched Sixty Minutes this morning. Last night's presentation.
It was a segment on Jerusalem, the Arab neighborhoods, and archeology digs underneath the old city, digging up the ancient city of David.
Bottom line, Jews are buying homes in the Arab portion of the city, and Palestinians are concerned an ethnic cleansing is occurring, home by home. Of course, no one is forcing anyone to sell them to an Israeli........
The Mayor of the city was quite specific, that control of the city cannot be shared politically with Palestinians.
I could not make up my mind if the piece was a hit job on Israeli's by CBS or not, as I tried to keep an open mind, but Israel did not come out of the interviews smelling like a rose.

[ed1066]

Jun 6, 2011 8:07:58 GMT -5 Value Buy said:

Dezi, I watched Sixty Minutes this morning. Last night's presentation.
It was a segment on Jerusalem, the Arab neighborhoods, and archeology digs underneath the old city, digging up the ancient city of David.
Bottom line, Jews are buying homes in the Arab portion of the city, and Palestinians are concerned an ethnic cleansing is occurring, home by home. Of course, no one is forcing anyone to sell them to an Israeli........
The Mayor of the city was quite specific, that control of the city cannot be shared politically with Palestinians.
I could not make up my mind if the piece was a hit job on Israeli's by CBS or not, as I tried to keep an open mind, but Israel did not come out of the interviews smelling like a rose.

CBS should do a story about the Jewish neighborhoods in Arab nations. Oh wait, there aren't any...

[Value Buy]

Yes ed, I understand this fact.
But as we all know, two wrongs do not make it okay.
We and Israel are better than that.

And, I am not against using force on our borders, put the barbwire fence up, and Spanish signs up, saying No Trespassing, violaters subjet to being shot, and let the bullets fly, but for the first year or so, let's make them rubber bullets.

[ed1066]

Jun 6, 2011 8:21:52 GMT -5 Value Buy said:

Yes ed, I understand this fact.
But as we all know, two wrongs do not make it okay.
We and Israel are better than that.

And, I am not against using force on our borders, put the barbwire fence up, and Spanish signs up, saying No Trespassing, violaters subjet to being shot, and let the bullets fly, but for the first year or so, let's make them rubber bullets.

I don't advocate lethal border protection in this country. We don't need it. Israel does. The people looking to come into this country are looking for better social and economic conditions then what they have at home. That is not bad or evil. They need to be turned back if they are breaking the law by trying to enter illegally, not injured or killed. Israel is a different situation. The invaders they face want to kill them, not get jobs and contribute to their society. It's apples and oranges...

[AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP]

About a quarter of one percent of Arabs have economic and political liberty. They ALL live in ISRAEL. If the "Arab spring" stuff is real, ISRAEL is the MODEL of democracy in the middle east. It's a little big government and socialist for my taste, but they aren't killing each other- or trying to kill their neighbors. Yeah, yeah-- whatever-- I know some of you are gonna but but but this-- but the simple fact is that if their Arab neighbors had their power and wealth, there'd be no Israel. Israel is NOT trying to kill its neighbors-- if it was, they'd have done it.

[handyman2]

The Arabs, Jews, Turks, British, French, Germans etc have been fighting over those lands for centuries. It has become a institution inbred in their minds. I seriously doubt that there will ever be total peace in the region. Each Arab, Palistinian, Iranian etc all claim they are the rightful owners. How do you break that cycle among brothers that have such hatred between them?

[handyman2]

The Arabs, Jews, Turks, British, French, Germans etc have been fighting over those lands for centuries. It has become a institution inbred in their minds. I seriously doubt that there will ever be total peace in the region. Each Arab, Palistinian, Iranian etc all claim they are the rightful owners. How do you break that cycle among brothers that have such hatred between them?

[deziloooooo]

Jun 6, 2011 8:07:58 GMT -5 Value Buy said:

Dezi, I watched Sixty Minutes this morning. Last night's presentation.
It was a segment on Jerusalem, the Arab neighborhoods, and archeology digs underneath the old city, digging up the ancient city of David.
Bottom line, Jews are buying homes in the Arab portion of the city, and Palestinians are concerned an ethnic cleansing is occurring, home by home. Of course, no one is forcing anyone to sell them to an Israeli........
The Mayor of the city was quite specific, that control of the city cannot be shared politically with Palestinians.
I could not make up my mind if the piece was a hit job on Israeli's by CBS or not, as I tried to keep an open mind, but Israel did not come out of the interviews smelling like a rose.

Value , as a Jew and a supporter of Israel as a Jewish State, and I am a firm supporter, even though a few here, different thread , feel I am anything but, as they feel "millions of American Jews " are also against Israel..

[Only 6 million or so here and the voting on anything positive toward Israel is in the 90 % plus bracket, haven't a clue how they get that idea}

and if you think I liked posting this threads article , you got to be loo, loo, and I know your not.
However , I know a lot of it is true, and feel to hold back because it says things I don't want to see said about the State, many on the money, I don't feel that is right either, even on a silly little chat zone as this, really a handful of readers and posters, so I posted it and would again.

Let me tell you something about American Jews.. Your not one so you really wouldn't be expected to know this. There are American Jews who support anything and everything Israel does unequivocally with no questions asked , anything they do , it's the correct decision. Then there are some who at times have questions..won't list all my questions, but I have them, and criticisms too.

My thoughts on the recent events on the Golon,[I have been there, walked the battlefield, the "73" war, with a guide, a group of us, some[2] old tankers actually, it was interesting to hear their thoughts and the marvel when it was explained how three tanks held off 60 Syrians , till reinforcements reached them, marveled, all the others had been lost]...I had questions on the planning for those demonstrations, and they are being asked right now in Jerusalem by some Israeli's them selves. If you never knew a Israeli, I have never met one, [some can be arrogant p in the butts as never before met by the way] who didn't have his own idea of how things should be done.

Now I told you about the American Jews who just go along with anything and everything the Israeli Government does.

Then you have those, at times me, who have questions, BUT, HOWEVER, ONCE the chips are down, there is a danger, a problem a anything to directly threaten the State as what it is and I feel HAS to be A JEWISH STATE, the only way it can SURVIVE, all the questions are gone and the support is there 200% if there is anything like that.

A Aside true story, Yom Kippor war, I am now out of the service still recovering but out. The attack on Yom Kippor, I am seeing the reports come in, Egyptians are over the canal brilliantly. Their air defenses, state of the art Russian, no way for the Israeli's to penetrate to get at the ground forces, they are losing many planes and pilots..it is not good.

I emotionally call the Israeli Embassy in Washington and actually get through..Introduce myself, explain my military back ground , also my personal problem and ask what can I do, tears are streaming down my eyes by the way...The man I had on the phone calmed me , we talked a bit, [phone call was $30 plus bucks I remember, LOL,] and laughed and said in his case he's also former military and while he has both legs, is down to one arm, so we are comrades in arms , his duty is in Washington.

We kibitzed a bit , he told me, need $ and letters and publicity, anything I can do there would be a god send...we wished each other a happy New year and g-d speed, and thats what I did, money , fund raising with a group, some of mine and letters to and to the Congressman, Senators, White House...