GOP demands station yank ad

[ugonow]

Interesting.On one hand,I do think Ryans plan ends the medicare system. On the other,there will be another totally different one in its place.www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/plum-line/post/republicans-demand-tv-station-yank-ad-claiming-they-would-end-medicare/2011/03/03/AGDHN3HH_blog.html

[AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP]

Jun 3, 2011 13:42:52 GMT -5 ugonow said:

Interesting.On one hand,I do think Ryans plan ends the medicare system. On the other,there will be another totally different one in its place.www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/plum-line/post/republicans-demand-tv-station-yank-ad-claiming-they-would-end-medicare/2011/03/03/AGDHN3HH_blog.html

No, the GOP plan saves Medicare. The Democrat's plan to let Medicare go bankrupt ends Medicare.

[ugonow]

Lol....you have the lines down well.

[safeharbor37]

The salient point is that the Democrats don't want to discuss the merits of the Ryan plan, but wish to attack it as doing something it doesn't do. Obamacare cuts Medicare Advantage so I suppose that it "ends" a Medicare benefit, but actually it only changes the program. Ryan's plan does the same thing ~ change the program [Change suddenly becomes a dirty word].
Actually, the Ryan plan leaves traditional Medicare in place for those who choose it, but, of course, the assumption is that the "new" Medicare proposed in the Ryan plan would be so superior that the Medicare eligible would voluntarily choose the alternative. The problem with discussing such at this time is that even the Ryan plan is subject to change over time, so the Democrats assume that traditional Medicare would be ditched somewhere along the line. The problem with that is that Medicare as we know it will undoubtedly be dumped eventually anyway since there is no way we can pay for it without substantive changes.

[ugonow]

Actually, the Ryan plan leaves traditional Medicare in place for those who choose it,

That's not the way I understand it.

[safeharbor37]

ugonow,

Starting in 2022, Medicare would convert to a voucher-style system in which the government would provide payments for private health insurance plans. Seniors covered by Medicare at the time would be allowed to stay.

Apparently you are correct at least regarding the option to retain traditional Medicare.
I recall hearing Ryan state that there was a option, but I don't see it now. Apparently I and others already on Medicare [older than 55] wouldn't be affected [so we would have the option]. I don't see any provision for replacing the current "Medicare Advantage" so that could be a problem for low income seniors although the program would be "means tested" to shift more responsibility to higher income seniors.
My point was that the advantages/disadvantages are not being discussed, but the whole program demonized. I don't believe that Rep. Ryan is actually going to push his [or our] grandmother off the cliff.

[EVT1]

Jun 4, 2011 8:08:40 GMT -5 ugonow said:

Lol....you have the lines down well.

Yeah he does. The echo chamber has been repeating that going bankrupt in 2024 BS all week. No one is buying it.

The reason the Democrats are not discussing the 'merits' of the Ryan plan is because it has no merits.

[safeharbor37]

The Democrat ad depicting Rep. Ryan pushing "grandma" off the cliff reminds me most of the ad run by the Johnson campaign of the little girl picking flowers with a mushroom cloud in the background ~ it worked very well in the short run, but has come to be considered one of the most misleading and dishonest in political history [Lyndon Johnson as the candidate of peace ~ shades of Wilson's "He kept us out of war."]

The reason the Democrats are not discussing the 'merits' of the Ryan plan is because it has no merits.

The reason the Democrats are not discussing the 'merits' of the Ryan plan is that they prefer to fund misleading TV ads which discuss neither the merits nor demerits of the plan, but appeal to the most visceral instincts of their constituency.

[EVT1]

Sort of like the republicans did with health care reform- except they were lying- the democrats are telling the truth. Whatever it takes to get through to people and show them how bad the Ryan plan is.

[cme1201]

Jun 7, 2011 13:37:30 GMT -5 EVT1 said:

Sort of like the republicans did with health care reform- except they were lying- the democrats are telling the truth. Whatever it takes to get through to people and show them how bad the Ryan plan is.

To the one's listening it can be a lie or truth, depends on which side your own and which side is doing the talking.

[marshabar1]

Jun 4, 2011 12:43:57 GMT -5 safeharbor37 said:

The salient point is that the Democrats don't want to discuss the merits of the Ryan plan, but wish to attack it as doing something it doesn't do. Obamacare cuts Medicare Advantage so I suppose that it "ends" a Medicare benefit, but actually it only changes the program. Ryan's plan does the same thing ~ change the program [Change suddenly becomes a dirty word].
Actually, the Ryan plan leaves traditional Medicare in place for those who choose it, but, of course, the assumption is that the "new" Medicare proposed in the Ryan plan would be so superior that the Medicare eligible would voluntarily choose the alternative. The problem with discussing such at this time is that even the Ryan plan is subject to change over time, so the Democrats assume that traditional Medicare would be ditched somewhere along the line. The problem with that is that Medicare as we know it will undoubtedly be dumped eventually anyway since there is no way we can pay for it without substantive changes.

Bears repeating. Dems will be Dems. Bankrupt of anything but vile villification, racism and class warfare.

[Angel!]

Jun 7, 2011 13:47:18 GMT -5 cme1201 said:

Jun 7, 2011 13:37:30 GMT -5 EVT1 said:

Sort of like the republicans did with health care reform- except they were lying- the democrats are telling the truth. Whatever it takes to get through to people and show them how bad the Ryan plan is.

To the one's listening it can be a lie or truth, depends on which side your own and which side is doing the talking.

Sometimes it is based on perspective, but other times they are outright lying. Death panels was an outright lie that the public ate up & repeated.

What I find so funny about the whole thing is Ryans plan for medicare is very similar to Obama's plan for health insurance, yet each side calls the other plan evil. Republicans keep arguing that Obama's plan will increase costs, but at the same ignoring the fact that Ryan's plan will increase costs.

The truth is that everyone is so wrapped around the labels dem & repub that few people actually take a real look at what is being proposed. And politicians can't ever admit that the opposing side has some good points or they will get torn apart (look at Newt).

The system isn't focused on what is actually good for the public, it is just focused on winning votes & staying in power.

[cme1201]

Jun 7, 2011 16:00:55 GMT -5 Angel! said:

Jun 7, 2011 13:47:18 GMT -5 cme1201 said:

To the one's listening it can be a lie or truth, depends on which side your own and which side is doing the talking.

Sometimes it is based on perspective, but other times they are outright lying. Death panels was an outright lie that the public ate up & repeated.

What I find so funny about the whole thing is Ryans plan for medicare is very similar to Obama's plan for health insurance, yet each side calls the other plan evil. Republicans keep arguing that Obama's plan will increase costs, but at the same ignoring the fact that Ryan's plan will increase costs.

The truth is that everyone is so wrapped around the labels dem & repub that few people actually take a real look at what is being proposed. And politicians can't ever admit that the opposing side has some good points or they will get torn apart (look at Newt).

The system isn't focused on what is actually good for the public, it is just focused on winning votes & staying in power.

I agree completely with what you said. Death Panels, it was a stupid thing for Palin to say said Friday August 7th 2009 (yet when she made the statement, we had no real clue as to what was being done), just as it was stupid for Pelosi to go on air on March 9th 2010 and tell the American people that we have to pass the healthcare bill to find out what is in it.

All politicians lie. Politics is no longer about country and countryman it's all about what is next, from city to state, from state to federal, from federal to Corporate, from Corporate to lobbyist. Politics is now nothing more than a game of musical chairs, who ever is left standing doesn't lose they move on to a more lucrative career.

[ChiTownVenture]

Jun 7, 2011 16:00:55 GMT -5 Angel! said:

Jun 7, 2011 13:47:18 GMT -5 cme1201 said:

To the one's listening it can be a lie or truth, depends on which side your own and which side is doing the talking.

Sometimes it is based on perspective, but other times they are outright lying. Death panels was an outright lie that the public ate up & repeated.

What I find so funny about the whole thing is Ryans plan for medicare is very similar to Obama's plan for health insurance, yet each side calls the other plan evil. Republicans keep arguing that Obama's plan will increase costs, but at the same ignoring the fact that Ryan's plan will increase costs.

The truth is that everyone is so wrapped around the labels dem & repub that few people actually take a real look at what is being proposed. And politicians can't ever admit that the opposing side has some good points or they will get torn apart (look at Newt).

The system isn't focused on what is actually good for the public, it is just focused on winning votes & staying in power.

Agreed, the issue is that the proposed changes are just that proposals. Both Dems and Repubs are so quick to kill each others ideas that it is impossible for them to work together to hammer out something that would be acceptable by both side, hence scrap any existing law and start over instead of altering.

[EVT1]

There is no mystery about Ryan's plan shafting the under 55 folks. If that wasn't enough he added tax cuts for the wealthiest people in the same legislation with no regard to the enormous hole it keeps the country in. Sounds like redistribution of wealth to me- just going upwards. What a dumb ass.

[zipity]

There is no mystery about Ryan's plan shafting the under 55 folks.

Maybe the merits of his plan would stand a better chance of being discussed if the age piece wasn't in there. If the plan is so good why not implement it immediately and include all those currently on Medicare. Of course I think the answer is pretty obvious, people who have paid into the system all their lives would be pretty upset to get a voucher instead of healthcare. By setting the age at 55 the plan has no affect on existing seniors or on most of the baby boomers who are now entering retirement. That in itself says a lot about the plan.