Getting down dirty on debt cealing/Budget

[deziloooooo]

In this article about Obama meeting with Dems after meerting with Pubs regarding the budget, debt cealing, I notice ALL the rating compniea, Moodys etc, giving warning s odf what might be the result if we did a default.

I wonder if the same thing will be said as it was said when the same thing was done with the stimulus, the banking crises , the bail outs of the automobile industry..we should have, we shouldn't have.

If this time we don't raise the cealing because of a impasse between the two political parties, who gets the blame, and I do beleive the average American will be hurt, just when he can't afford it and the fragile Ecionomy now will also take a back ward step topward recovery.

Can we afford this possible calaminty. It seems from the article , the meeting with Biden with the most influencial parties only got us to about 60/ 70 % of what is needed in budget deciasion, and it will now be up to the POTUS and the super upper members of the Political parties to work out the res, th other 30 %, which is fine with me, I can understand the process .

Lots of work has been donehe important underlings, now the first team goes in to finish the rest, to me , I know a supporter, but even if not, a good executive decision.
Now comes the big test if the big boys can finishe the game.

I am worried that th ultra right, yes the Tea Party will have enough votes, clout to keep he principals from coming to a deal , if they do, while some, here too will applaud, thinking peopls will not and we will be in deep doo, doo.
I consider the tea Party as a potential loose cannon, inflexable in their views, and dangerouse as hell in a democratic society that survives by compromise.

They do not believe in that, compomise, their way or the High Way including those who basiclly might support much/many of their is their mantra. Those who hold views of support of some of their , Tea party, ideas, wants, desires, demands, but if they , Tea Party, don't get all the support on all their ideas , they also become the enemy and thats a hell of a way to govern, also very dangerouse to our system of goverment. For those who agree with that thinking of the Tea Party, my way or the High Way have no concept of how our government and system of governice is done , just no clue at all.
IMHO.
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news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20110603/ap_on_bi_ge/us_congress_debt_limit
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[click on link to read article]
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By DAVID ESPO and LAURIE KELLMAN, Associated Press David Espo And Laurie Kellman, Associated Press – Thu Jun 2, 9:04 pm ET
WASHINGTON –

"Facing a dire warning from a credit rating agency, the Obama administration lobbied some of Congress' most conservative members Thursday for an increase in the nation's debt limit. Republicans responded that the surest way to reassure financial markets was to enact deep deficit cuts.

At the White House, President Barack Obama told Democrats he expected talks led by Vice President Joe Biden to achieve only about 60 to 70 percent of the reductions required as part of the deal, officials said, leaving him and top lawmakers to agree on the rest. The Biden talks are aimed at producing a bipartisan debt-cutting package that could accompany a boost in the government's ability to borrow more money.

Treasury Secretary Tim Geithner has told Congress that without an increase in the $14.3 trillion debt limit by Aug. 2, the government will be forced into its first-ever default, with potentially catastrophic results for the economy.

Geithner spent part of his day meeting privately with freshmen House members, mostly Republicans elected last fall with tea party support and among the most committed to cutting spending.

"I'm confident two things are going to happen this summer," he said afterward. "One is we're going to avoid a default crisis, and we're going to reach agreement on our long-term fiscal plan."

[burnsattornincan]

Tea Party, don't get all the support on all their ideas , they also become the enemy and thats a hell of a way to govern, also very dangerouse to our system of goverment. For those who agree with that thinking of the Tea Party, my way or the High Way have no concept of how our government and system of governice is done , just no clue at all.

Oh they have a concept alright. Its called your Constitution. Afraid of the Tea Party? How sweet it is.

[deziloooooo]

Sweet it is not , their intransigence is what bothers me not at the way they look at issues and ideas..nothing to do with our constitution..they have all the answers all others have it wrong and none can walk on water.From what I understand anyway...

[cme1201]

Without spending cuts, and they need to be substantial, raising the debt ceiling will do nothing except place us back in this spot in 2 to 3 years. In the last 10 years we have gone from 5.7t public debt to where we stand now at 14.32t raising the debt ceiling by 2.4t will only slow the bleeding unless we get serious with deep spending cuts, once the cuts are enacted (signed, sealed, and enforced) we can tackle across the board tax increases, from the poorest to the richest, because as you know we all need skin in the game.

[cme1201]

and yes, people walk on water all the time.

Ice = frozen water. Figure Skaters, Hockey Players, Speed Skaters all have fun on the ice. ;D

[Driftr]

The term default should only be used when referring to making P&I payments on the National Debt. Anyone choosing to use the term for any other thing the USG is currently spending money on is a financial terrorist and should be shot.

[BeenThere...DoneThat...]

Jun 3, 2011 7:24:35 GMT -5 Driftr said:

The term default should only be used when referring to making P&I payments on the National Debt. Anyone choosing to use the term for any other thing the USG is currently spending money on is a financial terrorist and should be shot.

...P&I on the national debt is fueling ~40% of what the feds spend money on every year... default on the one is default on the other... right?

[BeenThere...DoneThat...]

<<< Sweet it is not , their intransigence is what bothers me >>>

...same could be said of other parties, correct?

[BeenThere...DoneThat...]

Jun 3, 2011 6:34:15 GMT -5 cme1201 said:

Without spending cuts, and they need to be substantial, raising the debt ceiling will do nothing except place us back in this spot in 2 to 3 years. In the last 10 years we have gone from 5.7t public debt to where we stand now at 14.32t raising the debt ceiling by 2.4t will only slow the bleeding unless we get serious with deep spending cuts, once the cuts are enacted (signed, sealed, and enforced) we can tackle across the board tax increases, from the poorest to the richest, because as you know we all need skin in the game.

[Driftr]

Jun 3, 2011 7:34:49 GMT -5 BeenThere...DoneThat... said:

Jun 3, 2011 7:24:35 GMT -5 Driftr said:

The term default should only be used when referring to making P&I payments on the National Debt. Anyone choosing to use the term for any other thing the USG is currently spending money on is a financial terrorist and should be shot.

...P&I on the national debt is fueling ~40% of what the feds spend money on every year... default on the one is default on the other... right?

Where'd you get that 40% figure? Would using it assume that we won't choose to re-issue maturing debt? If so, then I believe it is mis-leading because I am not advocating we attempt to reduce the outstanding debt....yet.

[BeenThere...DoneThat...]

...the ~40% figure is from the boards... it's the going rate of what we borrow to keep the lights on, so to speak... so when you posted that defaulting on the debt is not the same as defaulting on the current budget, I was a bit confused... I'm no finance guru, but with significant borrowing to fuel our significant spending, I just don't see the two issues separately, anymore...

[Driftr]

Jun 3, 2011 7:49:23 GMT -5 BeenThere...DoneThat... said:

...the ~40% figure is from the boards... it's the going rate of what we borrow to keep the lights on, so to speak... so when you posted that defaulting on the debt is not the same as defaulting on the current budget, I was a bit confused... I'm no finance guru, but with significant borrowing to fuel our significant spending, I just don't see the two issues separately, anymore...

Wow. There aren't words to describe how sad I am that there are people who think this way. The even worse thing to me is I have a sneaking suspicion you and those like you are now in the majority.

[BeenThere...DoneThat...]

Jun 3, 2011 8:01:33 GMT -5 Driftr said:

Jun 3, 2011 7:49:23 GMT -5 BeenThere...DoneThat... said:

...the ~40% figure is from the boards... it's the going rate of what we borrow to keep the lights on, so to speak... so when you posted that defaulting on the debt is not the same as defaulting on the current budget, I was a bit confused... I'm no finance guru, but with significant borrowing to fuel our significant spending, I just don't see the two issues separately, anymore...

Wow. There aren't words to describe how sad I am that there are people who think this way. The even worse thing to me is I have a sneaking suspicion you and those like you are now in the majority.

...how so?

[floridayankee]

The fact that we are here today to debate raising America’s debt limit is a sign of leadership failure. It is a sign that the U.S. Government can’t pay its own bills. It is a sign that we now depend on ongoing financial assistance from foreign countries to finance our Government’s reckless fiscal policies. … Increasing America’s debt weakens us domestically and internationally. Leadership means that ‘the buck stops here. Instead, Washington is shifting the burden of bad choices today onto the backs of our children and grandchildren. America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership. Americans deserve better.

Senator Obama was against raising the debt ceiling and called it a failure of US leadership. Why should it be different now that he is the one doing the failing?

[Deleted]

Interesting post Deziloooooo. First off I would point out 2 things. 1. The Democrats could have addressed the debt ceiling a long time ago when they controlled everything, but they didn't. They screwed up then & they are still not wanting to face any kind of spending cut back so they delay on a budget. 2. President Obama is the one that caused this problem because of his huge stimulus package. That package took us right to the top of the debt ceiling without doing anything really to stimulate the economy. People looking at it critically could have compared it to shooting at a fly with a shotgun at 1,000 yards. To much money aimed at the wrong places. That's in the past & we can't do anything about it now.

The first thing to do now is to cut back spending. If we raise the debt ceiling now all we are going to do is stimulate more spending. An often used phrase is: You can't spend your way out of debt. The truth is that both parties are over spenders with the Democrats wanting to start new social programs & pet projects & the Republicans just wanting pet projects.

I am worried that th ultra right, yes the Tea Party will have enough votes, clout to keep he principals from coming to a deal , if they do, while some, here too will applaud, thinking peoples will not and we will be in deep doo, doo.

If the Tea Party or Republicans or both together have enough votes to stop this, yes we will be in deep doo doo. On the other hand they look at what we owe as a country & think that we are in deep doo doo now. I have to agree. We have over spent & still are over spending. I haven't really heard of any real cut backs, a little talk...yes but nothing real. Compromise is what runs our government but we are past the time of compromise as far as our spending. If compromise allows our government to spend more then I'm hoping that there is no compromise. If there is compromise, then the doo doo we are in just got deeper.

For those who agree with that thinking of the Tea Party, my way or the High Way have no concept of how our government and system of governice is done , just no clue at all.

Your right that compromise is how our government works day to day. That has developed over time as more or less the way we get things done. But the government principles are all defined in writing on things like our constitution. The Tea Party feels that we have strayed away from our written constitution. I don't know that I agree with them or not (I haven't researched it) but I will say that we have gone far from the intent of our constitution. Over the years we have stretched the limits that we were originally bound by so far that I doubt the the people who wrote it would recognize that this is the country they started.

As for the my way or the highway comment they believe (as I do, but maybe not on the same things) that there are certain things that can not be changed. To use an example to explain it. The Bill of Rights (I believe, it's been 100 years since I was in school) says that we are protected from unreasonable search & seizure. We can now arrest drug dealers & seize their assets (stuff bought with drug money), OK, not a real bad thing. But what if they think YOU are dealing drugs & bust into your house, find 5 oz of some substance, charge you & seize everything you own (car, boat, house, all cash, & all bank accounts)? You have nothing left even to pay to have someone analyze that substance to prove that it's not illegal. BTW you will also lose your job if that happens so your up shit creek without a paddle & you will be up that creek for 2 to 4 years until the trial comes up.

Not a great example (I admit) but an example of one of the rights that the Tea Party don't want to "compromise" on. I think maybe it's sometimes not a great thing to compromise.