Israel: The Settlers' Achievement

[lakhota]

Surrendered to fundamentalism, Israel is hopelessly isolated from the world, writes Andrew Sullivan. Should the U.S. squander its global standing supporting it?

Goldblog takes stock:

Their greatest achievement ... is in the interconnected realms of ideology and propaganda. The settlement movement, its supporters, and its apologists (in Israel and in America) have successfully conflated support for their movement with support for Israel and for Zionism itself. They have created a reality in which criticism of the settlement movement has come to equal criticism of Israel. ... It is astonishing that what was once so small a movement now defines what it means to be a supporter of Israel.

That is one of the lessons I have learned from the latest round of grinding conflict on this. Israel now means for a critical mass of Israelis a state from the Mediterranean to the River Jordan. Borders they defended with brilliance and vigor and ease in 1967 are now "indefensible" - but the vulnerable spaghetti of settlements on the West Bank are allegedly integral to security. But they are obviously very vulnerable as is. And it seems very likely that the only way to defend them permanently is annexation of the whole West Bank. What scales were left have therefore dropped from my eyes. Israel has moved past a two-state solution, and has done so through these cumulative facts on the ground and the rise of Jewish fundamentalism and American Christianism. I do not see how this will be easily reversed, and with every day, this new reality gets set in the concrete and stones of new settlements.

It is a different country now. The UN vote will be bitterly isolating and destabilizing, but a country with 150 nuclear warheads, the best military in the region by far, and a willingness to kill countless civilians as collateral damage in a war with Hamas is not going anywhere. The question is whether the US wants to jeopardize its global standing, destroy the promise of the Obama presidency, and betray the nascent Arab democracies in favor of a staunch, impenetrable, inviolable defense of Greater Israel. Any other question is becoming delusional, alas.

andrewsullivan.thedailybeast.com/2011/05/the-settlers-achievement.html?cid=hp:mainpromo5

[lakhota]

The Greatest Achievement of the Settlers

The settlers of the West Bank have accomplished a great many things: They have built entire towns on previously-barren hilltops; they have created a network of schools, religious institutions and cultural centers that rival their counterparts in Israel proper. Of course, they've been subsidized generously by successive Israeli governments, but still, the concrete achievements are large. And in the political realm, they have achieved disproportionate influence, through savvy lobbying, clever coalition-building, and appeals to Jewish pride and tradition.

Their greatest achievement, though, is in the interconnected realms of ideology and propaganda. The settlement movement, its supporters, and its apologists (in Israel and in America) have successfully conflated support for their movement with support for Israel and for Zionism itself. They have created a reality in which criticism of the settlement movement has come to equal criticism of Israel. You see this at the AIPAC convention, where no speaker dared suggest that the settlements are, in fact, the vanguard of Israel's dissolution, rather than the vanguard of Zionism. (I explain why the settlements could lead to the end of Israel here.)

It is astonishing that what was once so small a movement now defines what it means to be a supporter of Israel. The official position of this blog (yes, we have official positions here) is that the settlements should be fought as if there was no such thing as anti-Zionism, and anti-Zionism should be fought as if there were no such thing as the settlements. This, I think, reflects the centrist position. A centrist on the question of Israel believes that the settlements represent a corruption of Jewish ideals, but that Israel remains the physical manifestation of a righteous cause. The right, of course, believes that settlements are an expression, not a corruption, of that cause. The left, on the other hand, believes that settlements are a manifestation of Zionism's true nature. I disagree with that argument strenuously. But I will say this, though: The left position on this question has the wind at its back.

www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2011/05/the-greatest-achievement-of-the-settlers/239507/

[lakhota]

Why Palestinians Have Time on Their Side

If I were a Palestinian (and, should there be any confusion on this point, I am not), and if I were the sort of Palestinian who believed that Israel should be wiped off the map, then I would be quite pleased with Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu’s performance before Congress this morning.

I would applaud Netanyahu for including no bold initiatives that would have suggested to the world that Israel is alive to the threat posed by its seemingly eternal occupation of the West Bank.

In fact, I would make support for Netanyahu the foundation stone of my patient campaign to dismantle the world’s only majority-Jewish country. I would support not only Netanyahu, but the far-right parties of his governing coalition, the parties that seem uninterested in democracy and obsessed with planting more Jewish settlements on the West Bank.

The settlements would have my wholehearted backing. I would encourage my brother Palestinians to help build settlements at a brisk pace. I would ask the Israelis to build an even more intricate system of bypass roads on the West Bank that would connect Jewish settlements to one another and to Israel proper. I would ask my ostensible allies among the Arab nations to provide interest-free mortgages to Israelis in Tel Aviv, so they could move out to the settlements for some fresh air and a little more yard. And, while I was at it, I would insist that my leaders abort their campaign for United Nations recognition of an independent state of Palestine.

My goal: To hopelessly, ineradicably, entangle the two peoples wedged between the Jordan River and the Mediterranean Sea.

Then I would wait as the Israeli population on the West Bank grew, and grew some more. I would wait until 2017, 50 years after the Six Day War, which ended with Israel in control of the West Bank and the Gaza Strip. I would go before the UN and say the following:

"We, the Palestinians, no longer seek a homeland of our own. We recognize the permanence of Israeli occupation, the dominion of the Israeli military and the power of the Israeli economy. So we would like to join them. In the 50 years since the beginning of the ’temporary’ occupation, we have seen hundreds of thousands of Israelis build communities near our own communities. We admire what they have built, and the system of laws that governs their lives. Unlike them, many of us live under Israeli military law but have no say in choosing the Israelis who rule us. So we no longer want statehood. We simply want the vote."

And this, of course, would bring about the end of Israel.

More: www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-05-24/why-palestinians-have-time-on-their-side.html#0_undefined,0_

[pappyjohn99]

We simply want the vote.

Just exactly as some want for illegals in the United States. And the results will be the same:

And this, of course, would bring about the end of Israel. (America)

[deziloooooo]

Forgetting the West bank , and your facitiouse suggstion, that is a real concern in Israel proper, and alluded to by Obama, I guarantee few of the anti POTUS on this zone picked that up.

It is a worry and not a secret in Israel.

What so many here who post a lot about the typical know squat about the country itself, the prople too,.. Actually so many Israeli's are arrogant, pompouse and a real pain in the arse, but I still support the state strongly, but to live among them, it would be like living with neighborhoods of henry's and ed's..not my cup of tea.

Back to your assumption on the West bank. There are 1.2 million Arabs in Israel, , 20% of the population, a bit over 6 million Jews, all citizens of the country. They have the right to vote, they have representatives in the Knesset. Their average birth rate is over double the average of the Israelis secular, those are like us, 1.2 or what ever..the Orthodox , more along the Arab woman, like breed cows..no disrespect but when you average 7 or more children, what can one say.

Israel proper will be majority Arab Israeli in so many years, not 100's, possible by 2050 if not sooner.

Arabs are really not assimilated with the Israeli's, some but not a lot. Arab Israeli's live in majority Arab Israeli towns along the border and part of that swap that has been talked about was those towns, villages, to the West bank in exchange for where the Jews are living.

Problem is, even though in many cases Arab Israeli might feel like second class citizens, the social services, infrastructure of roads , and utilities a step down in many cases from what the Jewish Israelis are provided, they still are not in favor of going to the other side.

They are protected by Israeli Laws, courts, rights, schooling available, medical. jobs, livelihood, and all the amenities and life under Fatah even, West bank, forget the hell hole of Gaza, not so good.

Politically you don't speak out about the government. You do, your hassled, your imprisoned, you may even be physically accosted or worse. Corruption rampant, jobs not as good, medical, schooling and the amenities no comparison.