Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 27, 2011 12:39:17 GMT -5
2003 was a long time ago. This country has pretty much crashed and burned since then. Now some people are taking a deep look at the problems and trying to find long term solutions, while some seem to ignore there is a problem and just keep spending, passing laws that will raise costs (Obamacare) and going on their merry way as if there is no problem. Pretending we can go on as always does not make it so.
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tbop77
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Post by tbop77 on May 27, 2011 12:52:35 GMT -5
2003 was not really that long ago. I guess pretending that Medicare was fine and expanding was okay then casue the Pubs were in power? Perhaps you shoud read how that bill was passed.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 27, 2011 13:10:35 GMT -5
Or perhaps you should get in 2011 and see what we are up against.
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tbop77
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Post by tbop77 on May 27, 2011 13:23:27 GMT -5
LOL, I am in 2011 and I know exactly what we are up against. A hypocritical Congressman who was for spending more on Medicare before he was against it.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 27, 2011 13:27:55 GMT -5
Tell me-- do you believe Medicare will be here in the future if we do nothing? Oh, I see you are new here, but clearly not new to boards. Welcome. It is usually much more active here than right now.
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tbop77
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Post by tbop77 on May 27, 2011 13:48:39 GMT -5
Tell me--do you really believe that insurance companies are going to write policies to older Americans. My MIL pays $3k per year now for supplemental insurance.
And I was commenting on Ryan's hypocritical stance on the issue.
These boards are my cheap entertainment. I just felt the need to point out the guy touted as the "savior" of the USA is a hypocrite.
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mwcpa
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Post by mwcpa on May 27, 2011 14:45:36 GMT -5
it's funny, in 2003/4 if one changed his mind he was a flip flopper and it was bad..... now in 2011 it's okay.... I guess as long as you're on my side....
I agree that "something" needs to be done, but going to an extreme is not going to get done...
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Angel!
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Post by Angel! on May 27, 2011 15:02:21 GMT -5
it's funny, in 2003/4 if one changed his mind he was a flip flopper and it was bad..... now in 2011 it's okay.... I guess as long as you're on my side.... I guess the view on flip-flopping has flip-flopped. ;D
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 27, 2011 16:40:25 GMT -5
Sometimes circumstances change and people change with them. Gabby Giffords flipped on illegal immigration just in time for last years elections. She saved her seat, barely, by doing so. Do you think Gabby lied, or did things happen that caused Gabby to change her mind about border issues? What about Obama? Does he change his mind a lot, or is he a liar?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 27, 2011 16:49:28 GMT -5
Paul Ryan has started the discussion that those on the other side of the aisle are to afraid to start or even to join. Are his ideas perfect? No. Is he perfect? No. Is private insurance a great solution ? Maybe not, but compared to no insurance, no Medicare, it's the only one out there. Many are and have been for quite some time now waiting...waiting... very willing to hear real (meaning truly affordable/sustainable) solutions from the other side but get nothing but empty talk, talk, talk, and empty promises. Never any numbers that lead to anything more than higher debt/deficits. You want to believe in empty promises feel free but I highly suggest you save lots of pennies and stay very healthy in the meantime so you can pay in full for the private insurance you will be needing when medicare no longer exists.
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humok
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Post by humok on May 27, 2011 17:00:56 GMT -5
hmmmm...Want to save medicare....the first step should be to stop any and all funds for the illegals getting free health care through the emergency room that was pushed through by Bill Clinton and then send their ass home where they belong until they come here the legal route.
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formerexpat
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Post by formerexpat on May 27, 2011 17:36:33 GMT -5
Members of both sides of the aisle might talk out of one side of their mouth about Medicare.
They both know it's on it's way to bankrupting the nation and strangling the next generation. They also all know that Gen Y will soon be the majority voting block.
Costs will be reigned in and the boomers will take it whether they like it or not.
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fairlycrazy23
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Post by fairlycrazy23 on May 27, 2011 17:56:31 GMT -5
The problem with medicare is that it doesn't pay enough now, so I think it is probably true that if you just project medicare as it is today out 15 years and compare it to the Ryan plan it will appear that the current system is better, however, the fact is no body will be taking medicare because it pays so little of the costs.
Health care is a two prong problem, one is increasing insurance coverage for people so that everybody has access to insurance, and second to reduce health care costs, which to a large extend is contradictory because we really need people to start paying for there health care directly and return insurance to its proper role of insurance. Because we have have a third party (be it insurance or government or whoever) paying for a service people are less concerned about the cost. I think we should expand dramatically health care reimbursement accounts,real tort reform, immigration enforcement. And remove regulations that inhibit creative health care alternatives.
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ugonow
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Post by ugonow on May 27, 2011 18:44:13 GMT -5
"Two weeks ago, a large group of House Republicans got together to call for some sort of rhetorical truce on Medicare. They acknowledged that they may have engaged in a little demagoguery to get elected in 2010, but they want to “wipe the slate clean” and “hit the reset button” now that they’re in office. No more “Mediscare” tactics, they said. Two weeks later, House Speaker John Boehner (R-Ohio) decided he’s not quite done with these tactics after all. “The only people in Washington, DC who have voted to cut Medicare have been the Democrats,” said Boehner, “when they voted to cut $500 billion in Medicare during Obamacare.” The line quickly answered questions about how the GOP would respond to the embarrassing defeat in the Buffalo-area special election this week. Republicans know they’re getting slammed over Medicare, so the House Speaker was sending a not-so-subtle about the new GOP message: “Against Medicare? Us? It’s those rascally Democrats who cut the program.” Pressed by Greg Sargent, Boehner’s chief spokesperson went a little further. “The Democrats’ health care law siphoned more than $500 billion away from Medicare into an unsustainable new entitlement — that’s a Medicare cut. Now, they are insisting on the status quo, which means Medicare’s bankruptcy and steep benefit cuts….” Got that? Slam #1: Democrats undercut Medicare last year. Slam #2: By refusing to cut Medicare now, Democrats are indirectly supporting more Medicare cuts later." PS... Cutting Advantage, the most fraud and waste filled part of the program was not really a cut to benefits.The regular system can provide the necessary benefits. www.washingtonmonthly.com/political-animal/2011_05/a_swing_and_a_miss_from_boehne029861.php
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ugonow
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Post by ugonow on May 27, 2011 18:49:57 GMT -5
To say the least. Their exposure to risk scale will be heavily tilted with the addition of all the elderly boomers.
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ugonow
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Post by ugonow on May 27, 2011 19:00:35 GMT -5
I don't think tort reform will do much.IMO, we can not limit patients right to legal recourse enough to have large enough savings that would be passed from the insurance companies to the providers then to patients. Another problem with tort reform is that currently,states set their own limits.Are you prepared to take away states rights and replace them with federal mandates? I agree 100 percent with immigration reform.No free healthcare...[in reality it is easier said then done.We are not a country to let people suffer]
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formerexpat
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Post by formerexpat on May 27, 2011 20:36:16 GMT -5
The doctors in the US pay 10x the amount for their liability insurance as European doctors. I don't see any other reason for that than our litigious society.
The other component to this is defensive medicine / procedures. The tests / scans / medicines that doctors call for only due cover their ass, not necessarily because they are medically necessary or would otherwise be called for.
These drive up costs significantly.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 27, 2011 20:36:29 GMT -5
Do you REALLY believe in what you said about healthcare for illegals?? Test yourself--- AZ tried and failed to pass a law asking for legal ID, or other proof of a right to be in the USA, in our hospital's ERs. What would have happened is-- the person that could not show ID would be TREATED for their illness or whatever, then turned over to BP to be checked for citizenship status. The LIBERAL outrage was over the top-- accusations that people would be dying in the streets, spreading terrible diseases, and of course-- we are all racists. If you really believe illegals should not get free healthcare-- do you think identifying them pouring in our ERs here in AZ would be an effective and harmless way to identify them? While you think about that, remember when YOU or I go to the ER we are asked for ID-- correct?
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ugonow
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Post by ugonow on May 28, 2011 7:47:52 GMT -5
IMO,you could never limit legal rights enough to create a big enough savings that would allow it to trickle down from the insurance company to the provider,to the patient. And while I think no free healthcare to illegals sounds like a great idea, there would always be exceptions..this is America and people do not die in the streets for lack of healthcare There will always be government programs of some sort for healthcare for seniors and poor,and some "dumba$%#"[sarcasim is on] with morals that won't let illegals die in the street,face it. But legislation proving id and proof of source of payment before treatment at general hospitals would be a start.Illegals are without a doubt a huge burden,as are the gringos using the just use the er or just default on the bills system.
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Post by privateinvestor on May 28, 2011 8:41:22 GMT -5
I admire Paul Ryan for having the guts to take on Social Security, Medicare, and Medicaid if our country wants to get serious about cutting "Entitlements"...And it is true the Liberals will not touch these three programs because they don't want to lose favor with their constituents but if they have a better plan than Ryan's then why not present it instead of just badmouthing congressman Ryan..??
Have the liberals proposed any changes to Social Security?? Would they agree to raising the age limit or having means testing for the wealthy?? Why not exclude Social Security COLA increases for receipients of Social Security who earn more than $250,000 per year?? Liberals would probably object to that idea because it would hit some of them in the wallet.....or exclude Medicare for those who have other medical insurance plans ?? Most high income retired folks probably have never used Medicare or Medicaid..
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ugonow
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Post by ugonow on May 28, 2011 8:59:25 GMT -5
Actually,Ryan left SS alone. When Obama suggested cutting Advantage, the most fraud and waste filled part of the system, and using the regular system to provide the necessary trayments cheaper, republicans cried he was cutting millions in benefits from seniors,remember? They still do on and off when they are not crying about him not cutting medicare. --- Boehner---"The only people in Washington, DC who have voted to cut Medicare have been the Democrats,” said Boehner, “when they voted to cut $500 billion in Medicare during Obamacare.”"
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Post by privateinvestor on May 28, 2011 9:03:22 GMT -5
Actually,Ryan left SS alone. When Obama suggested cutting Advantage, the most fraud and waste filled part of the system, and using the regular system to provide the necessary treatments cheaper, republicans cried he was cutting millions in benefits from seniors,remember? They still do on and off when they are not crying about him not cutting Medicare. Not true if you read Paul Ryan's Road map to Recovery that you can google there is a section devoted to Social Security with his proposed changes as well as a section to overhaul the entire Federal Income Tax System... however I don't think he has the necessary congressional support yet in the House of Representatives for those changes..as you can imagine.. Social Security for those now entering the work force has to be changed or else it will not be there when they want to retire. I think the changes will be gradual or moving the age to 70 for benefits in 2025 ?? Or don't give COLA to those who are in a high income bracket..... In case you are not aware of it but we have folks who really don't need social security and some may be more than willing to see the so called "means test" applied...I would be OK with that but then again I have a military pension..which most don't have.
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ugonow
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Post by ugonow on May 28, 2011 9:06:05 GMT -5
I stand corrected then.I was under the impression SS was left untouched.
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Post by privateinvestor on May 28, 2011 9:10:17 GMT -5
I stand corrected then.I was under the impression SS was left untouched. I believe Ryan's proposed changes to Social Security have also been labeled too radical by the Liberals for obvious reasons. As you know the retirees in this country have a lot of voting power and would not be too happy with any major changes..
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ugonow
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Post by ugonow on May 28, 2011 9:20:14 GMT -5
SS changes are not in the GOP budget.Libs did not write their budget. The social security administration's operating budget was cut in it,but not the program itself.But you are right,Ryan did address it in his roadmap. He proposed letting those under 55 have half their contribution be perivatized.Not nearly as radical as his medicare plan.
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tbop77
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Post by tbop77 on May 28, 2011 9:25:02 GMT -5
Funny P.I. that you admire Ryan and McConnell, two Pubs that voted to expand Medicare. Of course back then, older Americans were the ones voting. Talk about not wanting to lose favor with constituents.
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Post by privateinvestor on May 28, 2011 9:26:38 GMT -5
SS changes are not in the GOP budget.Libs did not write their budget. The social security administration's operating budget was cut in it,but not the program itself.But you are right,Ryan did address it in his roadmap. Social Security changes were also addressed in the so called Republcan debates hosted by Fox....Governor Pawlenty has some suggestions for Social Security but again the Liberals just scoffed at his ideas.. Rand Paul is trying to get Harry Reid to bring this subject up in the senate but so far Reid will not give Rand Paul the time of day as you can expect... Again I think Obama could do a lot but he doesn't have a clue about this issue or doesn't want to touch it since it would cost him some votes I guess??
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Post by privateinvestor on May 28, 2011 9:29:45 GMT -5
Funny P.I. that you admire Ryan and McConnell, two Pubs that voted to expand Medicare. Of course back then, older Americans were the ones voting. Talk about not wanting to lose favor with constituents. I never said anything about McConnell but did study Ryan's Roadmap for Recovery and we discussed it here a few weeks ago before my four week hiatus ...I like his idea and I am not a Republican or a conservative but do agree changes have to be made to entitlements because our government is broke and I have two grand kids who may have a tough time in this country if we continue along the path of spending we are on
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ugonow
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Post by ugonow on May 28, 2011 9:31:47 GMT -5
So why didn't the GOP include it in their budget?
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tbop77
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Post by tbop77 on May 28, 2011 9:35:59 GMT -5
Oh--I was just going on the other thread about how Mitch had grown a pair....after 27 years and his and Ryan voted to expand a few short years ago!
Of course, as expat reminded us, in her compassionate conservative way, the biggest voting block coming up will be generation Y, and us boomers will take it whether we like it or not.
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