Mad Dawg Wiccan
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Rest in Peace
Only Bites Whiners
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Post by Mad Dawg Wiccan on May 23, 2011 16:08:24 GMT -5
Has anybody here ever installed a solar power generator on their home? Was it worth the investment?
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Post by Savoir Faire-Demogague in NJ on May 23, 2011 16:15:03 GMT -5
In 1984 I had a domestic solar hot water system put on my house. Worked great. Even with all the federal and state tax credits it was still borderline.
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sesfw
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Today is the first day of the rest of my life
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Post by sesfw on May 23, 2011 17:41:40 GMT -5
In the late 70s we had a solar water heater installed and saw our electric bill drop 1/3 immediately. If I remember correctly the unit cost $2500 and with all the tax credits it was cost effective within about 2 years.
In this home we did the same thing in 2008 and saw the same thing. The unit price was about $4500 and with all the credits and lower electric bill, the payback was about 18 months. Absolutely no complaints.
At our age it isn't cost effective for us to go whole house. But if we ever did, we would look into leasing the unit instead of purchase. Technology will change and it would be time for an upgrade in about 5 years. From what I understand, the leasing bill would be less than our present electric bill.
Something to check out.
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thyme4change
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Post by thyme4change on May 23, 2011 17:49:52 GMT -5
The people I know say they will break even in 5 years by taking all the tax credits and breaks and grants and other free-handouts.
The technology is just not up to what it needs to be to make it break-even on its own. Anyone who says solar is cheaper is only counting their output, not the government subsidies.
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Post by debtheaven on May 23, 2011 18:06:31 GMT -5
Hi Mad Dawg
Caveat, I am in a VHCOLA in France. We considered it but couldn't afford it, despite all the rebates. Which have decreased by half this year (just one year later). Which makes me wonder ...
We put in a fancy energy efficient boiler / furnace two years ago with a three-year low-interest loan, we will finish paying it off next month, 11 months early. The HVAC guy (who I know well) told us that the "dirty little secret" about solar is that it only lasts for a limited amount of time, and that it costs a fortune to get rid of once its time is up.
Since we didn't go for solar energy, I don't know if this is true or not, because I didn't look into it any further once we decided it was unaffordable despite the rebates. You should look into if you are seriously considering it. It's true that we always hear about how wonderful solar panels are, but IMO they haven't been around for long enough for us to hear (mainstream) about their longevity or their disposal costs.
Anybody who has info, please direct it to Mad Dawg, since we are no longer considering this option, because the installation costs were prohibitive for us.
ETA: Again, that guy's info might be total carp, we didn't look into it further, but I thought those points (longevity and disposal costs) would definitely have been worth exploring had we had opted for that.
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on May 23, 2011 18:20:13 GMT -5
My mom got sold this "bill of goods." If she lives another 20 years, it MIGHT break even even with her rebates and tax credits. She's 76.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 23, 2011 18:27:24 GMT -5
Depends on energy costs where you live. Here in coal country, you have to be in it for the cause not the cost-savings.
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on May 23, 2011 18:28:44 GMT -5
Try the Pacific Northwest where the sun shines occasionally.
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phil5185
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Post by phil5185 on May 23, 2011 18:30:50 GMT -5
In this home we did the same thing in 2008 and saw the same thing. The unit price was about $4500 and with all the credits and lower electric bill, the payback was about 18 months. I think most people forget the cost-of-money when they do the payback calculation. (I've seen the salesman skip it in all cases). Eg, your $4500 is gone, and so is the future earnings of the $4500, it would normally double in about 7 years to $9000. Our electric bill, in our total electric 4 bdrm home, is $1400/year. If it covered our entire $1400/yr bill it would take almost 7 years to reach the $9000 payback point. IMO they are being over-marketed.
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oreo
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Post by oreo on May 23, 2011 18:35:10 GMT -5
We installed solar panels a little over 2 years ago. For us, it wasn't as much an immediate cost savings as an insurance policy that we are protected if rates go up. Plus I wanted to use our a/c and there was NO WAY I was going to let us use it and pay hundreds of dollars/month. Our bill wasn't that much to begin with--probably around $50/month. We now generate more than we use so our bill is less than $5/month (we are still on the grid) although with the credits from the excess we generated I think that will be canceled out plus a little. I think with all of the incentives it will still be a long time before we recoup (I thought the recoup time was over 10 years) but we plan to be in the house forever so we'll recoup it eventually. I'm sure we'll have to replace the inverter in 10ish years for like $5K and the panels will eventually produce less than when they are new but the have a 20 year warranty that they'll produce at least 80% of their rated value for that length of time (or something close to that)
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thyme4change
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Post by thyme4change on May 23, 2011 19:00:21 GMT -5
Where is arch to try and convince us that economies of scale will make this thing work?
I guess if we are able to manufacture panels for about 1/10th of the current price it would make this viable.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 23, 2011 20:37:48 GMT -5
3 year ROI makes me jump out of my seat. 5 year ROI has me actively interested. 7 year ROI has me passively interested.. Over 7 years, GTFO. ![](http://forum.blu-ray.com/images/smilies/imported/crazy.gif) I'd love to do solar on the new house. We have perfect pitch and orientation in our roof line to maximize production and being in San Diego, we have plenty of sun. We also have high electrical rates.. But I need it to be 5 years or under ROI to get my wallet out. We either need the cost of existing panels to go down or new higher efficiency panels to come to market that might cost more per unit, but be overall cheaper because less panels would be needed
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 23, 2011 20:41:38 GMT -5
Solar is the future!
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❤ mollymouser ❤
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Post by ❤ mollymouser ❤ on May 23, 2011 21:14:33 GMT -5
We have some neighbors who spent $28,000 (after credits/government assistance) to go solar a year ago. They still pay about $100-$200 per month for their power bill, but they are saving roughly $300 per month by going solar.
(That's $3,600 per year in utility savings, which means in about 8 years they will break even IF you don't count the lost use of $28,000.)
Oh, and they financed that $28,000 at 3% interest ... and that's not factored in.
And they had to spend $2500 to chop down the trees that used to shade their roof/home.... that's not factored in.
And they need to either clean their own solar panels regularly, or pay someone to do so ... that's not factored in.
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2kids10horses
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Post by 2kids10horses on May 23, 2011 21:50:32 GMT -5
THere's a consumer advocate talk show host here in Georgia who is known as being very cheap, and is all about saving money. He recent said that solar now makes sense here. And, he says that it is one investment you can make to your house that will really increase the resale value of your house equal to the amount you spend on it. If HE (Clark Howard) says it's an OK deal, then it must be. He's usually very skeptical. By the way, I went to high school with Clark. I know him VERY well. My ex used to work at his radio station, I've been to his house. While he is a landlord, he would advise most people not to do one of the things I do, which is flip houses, in this market. Bear in mind, he has to dumb down his on-air investment advice. Most people are not as good at picking fixer uppers as I am, and know how to get the repairs done for what I can do them for. My point is, if he is saying that solar might be a good idea ON THE AIR, then it is probably worth looking into. Check out his website: www.clarkhoward.com
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brdsl
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Post by brdsl on May 23, 2011 21:54:20 GMT -5
My soon to be father in law loves listening to Clark Howard. He agrees that if he says it, it is probably a good thing.
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schildi
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Post by schildi on May 24, 2011 0:16:09 GMT -5
(That's $3,600 per year in utility savings, which means in about 8 years they will break even IF you don't count the lost use of $28,000.) Oh, and they financed that $28,000 at 3% interest ... and that's not factored in. If they financed the $28K then you'd NOT count the loss of use of $28,000 because there is no loss of use, right? At 3%, they'll pay about $840 (a little less) in interest the first year. If this saved them $3,600 per year, then they are ahead. They'd pay off the loan with the $300 monthly savings in about 9 years. If they go 10 years then they'd have the cost of the tree cutting included as well, plus one cleaning. ![:)](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/smiley.png) After 10 years: profit. And that's not factoring in the rise in energy prices over those 10 years. I am pretty sure they will not fall. That rise will probably more than cover the cleaning cost of those panels. So I guess it IS all factored in, or did I miss something? ![:)](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/smiley.png) I think those neighbors did the right move. Talk to them in 10 years, when their system is paid for, and they pay $600 or so less in utilities every month .... ![8-)](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/cool.png)
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❤ mollymouser ❤
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Post by ❤ mollymouser ❤ on May 24, 2011 1:20:13 GMT -5
Well, our house is larger than theirs, and we pay about $200 per month in utility bills ... I think we're more conservation-oriented. And we don't expect to be living in our house 10 years from now. And I'd miss my trees. ![:)](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/smiley.png)
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 24, 2011 7:17:00 GMT -5
Try the Pacific Northwest where the sun shines occasionally. It's the same here in NW Arkansas (regardless of what the Chamber of Commerce says)
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thyme4change
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Post by thyme4change on May 24, 2011 14:29:04 GMT -5
When the trees next to our bedroom got chopped down our electric bills went up about $75 each month in the summer (which is 5 or 6 months here.) Those trees kept the room shaded and cool. Now it is hot as hell in the bedroom so I crank the A/C down and the rest of the house has icicles hanging from the furniture.
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qofcc
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Post by qofcc on May 24, 2011 14:50:09 GMT -5
I looked at the websites that offered solar leasing and plugged in my home and utility bills. With $0 down, I could save about $5/mo, but lock in at current price for 10 years. But if I moved in less than 5 years, I would have to get the new people to take over the solar panels or pay a penalty. Just not worth the hassle at this point since I still would really like to move within the next few years, but the house I eventually build I would like to go with radiant heat from electric hot water and I think solar will make sense when the house is fully electric. When we replaced our HW heater, I found to my surprise that in our area electric rates have been increasing at a much lower rate than natural gas and the most efficient electric water heater is cheaper to operate compared to the most efficient gas water heater - it wasn't that way 10 years ago when we replaced the last one.
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Tiny
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Post by Tiny on May 24, 2011 14:51:31 GMT -5
The only way to figure out if it's worth it would be to do some math. You'll need to know how much electricity costs (where you live) and how much you use (NOT the total dollar from your monthly bill) now and a guesstimate of how much more load you'll add in the future to get started. You should be able to find advice and the way to calculate the ROI for going solar on line. I suspect that it depends greatly on where you live and how much per kilowatt you are paying. I spend less than $500 a year on the electricity I use and then another $400 or so on delivery charges, taxes, fees, and whatnot on the bill. If you do go to solar you will still probably need to pay the Electric company something every month (for the meter and whatever other electricity you use, and taxes, and fees and whatnot). Not trying to talk you out of it... just saying you need to some research and some math to figure out if it's cost effective for you. Generally, you're best savings come from using LESS electricity versus switching to a different source. FWIW: I solar cook and use a solar clothes dryer... i also live near the World's Largest Laundry that uses solar heated water
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 24, 2011 15:26:51 GMT -5
Here in San Diego, we have price tiers for electrical.. They more you use, the higher the cost tier you move into. Has anyone priced out a smaller system with the goal of staying in the lostest tier? I wonder if the ROI improves if you eliminate the goal of replacing all your net usage with a more modest goal?
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gobermitcheese
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Post by gobermitcheese on May 24, 2011 16:20:49 GMT -5
I think in my area it is the opposite where the more you use the cheaper it is. Because of this a small solar system would be replacing the cheapest electricity.
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2kids10horses
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Post by 2kids10horses on May 24, 2011 18:09:55 GMT -5
How about going solar, and adding a geothermal heat pump?
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TD2K
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Post by TD2K on May 25, 2011 7:01:51 GMT -5
In the late 70s we had a solar water heater installed and saw our electric bill drop 1/3 immediately. If I remember correctly the unit cost $2500 and with all the tax credits it was cost effective within about 2 years.
I think this and some other posts show how many factors can affect the payback for these systems. For myself, I use natural gas to heat my hot water and my gas bills in the summer are minimal, I'd never justify much of an investment in terms of hot water. My water bill is also mostly fixed charges so water savings don't yield much actual savings. In other places, that can be very different.
My yearly electrical bill is around $800 a year. I've seen some articles in the local paper about people who have put solar cells on their house. To me, the payback is marginal.
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Post by Savoir Faire-Demogague in NJ on May 25, 2011 7:56:34 GMT -5
I use natural gas to heat my hot water I always wondered why people waste energy heating hot water. It is already hot. ![](http://syonidv.hodginsmedia.com/vsmileys/idunno.gif)
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