CA ordered to release prisoners

[Mad Dawg Wiccan]

WASHINGTON - A closely divided Supreme Court on Monday cited "serious constitutional violations" in California's overcrowded prisons and ordered the state to abide by aggressive plans to fix the problem.

In a decision closely watched by other states, the court by a 5-4 margin concluded the prison overcrowding violated constitutional protections against cruel and unusual punishment. Pointedly, the court rejected California's bid for more time and leeway.



www.sacbee.com/2011/05/23/3647586/supreme-court-orders-california.html


This at a time when most cities are laying off police.....

[Deleted]

CA can do what Tx does. Kill a few of the murders. (Hey reductions in prison population doesn't always mean letting rapists & murders go free).

[Mad Dawg Wiccan]

Death Row inmates here have a better chance of dying of old age than being executed.

[marshabar1]

Interesting how budget cuts first affect the things that will SCARE the public.

You want cuts? Okay, no streetlights for you!

More cuts? Fewer police!

MORE CUTS!?! RELEASE THE PRISONERS!!!!!!!!

[Deleted]

Interesting. So the SCOTUS has come up with a plan to release the illegals?? I have just read that 27% or so of your prison population is illegals. Fits right in with the big plan, doesn't it. Hey, Dawg, look at this conversation a couple of weeks ago about your Gov wanting to do this, and saying the SCOTUS is likely to demand it, and the people responding, no the SCOTUS won't do that... Oh, YEAH???
freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2716792/posts?page=1

[❤ mollymouser ❤]

California's 33 state prisons held about 147,000 inmates, at the time of the Supreme Court's oral arguments last November. This is down from a high of some 160,000 previously cited in legal filings. The higher figure amounted to "190 percent of design capacity," officials said. Last year, a three-judge panel ordered California to reduce its inmate population to 137.5 percent of design capacity within two years. That's the equivalent of about 110,000 inmates.


Wow. So they need to release 37,000 inmates and not incarcerate any new offenders?!

[Mad Dawg Wiccan]

According to the article, they're cutting loose 47,000.

[AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP]

May 23, 2011 11:15:10 GMT -5 Mad Dawg Wiccan said:

WASHINGTON - A closely divided Supreme Court on Monday cited "serious constitutional violations" in California's overcrowded prisons and ordered the state to abide by aggressive plans to fix the problem.

In a decision closely watched by other states, the court by a 5-4 margin concluded the prison overcrowding violated constitutional protections against cruel and unusual punishment. Pointedly, the court rejected California's bid for more time and leeway.



www.sacbee.com/2011/05/23/3647586/supreme-court-orders-california.html


This at a time when most cities are laying off police.....

There are far too many people in prison for bullshit "crimes". I hope they start with people charged with possession of controlled substances.

[Deleted]

CA will become known as THE place to live if you want to commit crimes. In reality, though, lots of places are letting people off with little punishment, because there is nowhere to put them and no money to keep them. In AZ you don't go to jail for DUI, drugs, any of that now, unless you are a serious repeat offender. They sentence people to "programs", and stats show many are rearrested while on probation or in programs. So, if CA loosens up their probation and parole rules, guess that means if you drop dirty or whatever, too bad, have a nice day. So what is even the point of putting them on probation?? Just let people do whatever they want? As for illegals, once they are out that's it, until next time they are arrested for something really bad. Can't keep an eye on an invisible person.
We have a big work release jail in Tucson for drug, alcohol, and other non-violent offenses. They work, and they pay the state rent. Wonder if CA does that?

[Mad Dawg Wiccan]

They do have work release programs here for DUI offenses. I don't know if other crimes also qualify, but they're all at the county level. These prisoners being released are all state.

[Deleted]

Doesn't make much sense to release them from one overburdened CA jail system to another overburdened CA jail system.

[❤ mollymouser ❤]

I am also sitting here thinking that the release of 47,000 convicted felons back into the workforce won't be helping the unemployment figures or the economy, either. (sigh)

[Mad Dawg Wiccan]

I'm sure most of them will soon be "self employed".

[Deleted]

Not unless CA is SO liberal that felons have an edge on employment. I DO know here in AZ there is some kind of re-entry program for felons that get out of prison. I drove a guy in my cab That got a job making $27. an hour doing gas line work straight out of prison and living in a halfway house. Good for him, BUT................I also know of apt complexes that are parolees only, very low rent, state subsidized..... maybe normal people should go to prison for awhile to get ahead??? Seems it is better for people to go to prison in the long term than to just get probation and try to stay employed with that over their head... that's messed up..
Also cab company I once worked for only hired felons on parole for office workers because they HAD to behave, HAD to stay off drugs, HAD to go to work every day... and, most of all, they got a tax break for hiring felons... not sure if that was state or federal, but tis true.
And AZ is a basically conservative state. Good luck in liberal CA.

[Deleted]

Check this out, CA people and others-- the guy that beat the sports fan to brain damage...

www.charlotteconservative.com/index.php/2011/05/giovanni-ramirez-gang-member/
TODAY'S NEWS

So today the news is “kinda filled” with the news of Mexican gang member Giovanni Ramirez.
Giovanni Ramirez who is living in Los Angeles was caught for the crime of assault with a deadly weapon for the beating into a coma of Bryan Stow, a 42-year-old father of two from Santa Cruz, California.
The news noticed they caught him, the noticed he beat a father of 2 into a coma at a dodgers game, they just didn’t notice he is a member of Varrio Nuevo Estrada Mexican street gang. They also didn’t seem to notice the 60%+ likeliness that this makes him an illegal alien, and the 90%+ likeliness that hes at minimum an anchor baby.
Not as much press as the Anchor baby that killed Osama, which turns out is a fake story but still managed to be on every channel and newspaper front page the next day.
It’s ok to mention race when it’s some make believe agenda pusher, but not when 3 Mexican gang members living in Los Angeles beat a white father into a coma for no reason......
MUCH MORE.....

Good luck, CA.

[deziloooooo]

May 23, 2011 11:15:10 GMT -5 Mad Dawg Wiccan said:

WASHINGTON - A closely divided Supreme Court on Monday cited "serious constitutional violations" in California's overcrowded prisons and ordered the state to abide by aggressive plans to fix the problem.

In a decision closely watched by other states, the court by a 5-4 margin concluded the prison overcrowding violated constitutional protections against cruel and unusual punishment. Pointedly, the court rejected California's bid for more time and leeway.



www.sacbee.com/2011/05/23/3647586/supreme-court-orders-california.html


This at a time when most cities are laying off police.....

I don't think SCOTUS makes decisions based on what the consequences of their actions will be, in this case, to solve, raise taxes to build more prisons, even though CA is taxed out, release when shouldn't be released, etc..
I think their decisions are supposed to be based on how the case brought before them relates to the different rights in the Constitution.
How their rulings are followed is up to the parties who are involved, in this case the State of Ca.
One of the comments of a poster regarding the actual article, while not solving all of the problem has merit, possible would be conidered by those who have to find a way to abide by the ruling,

"I say we should let all the pot smokers and other victimless criminals out, so we can concentrate on the truly bad people. Time to move towards restoring sanity to our sentencing laws"

[ed1066]

May 23, 2011 15:01:59 GMT -5 @krickitt said:

Check this out, CA people and others-- the guy that beat the sports fan to brain damage...

www.charlotteconservative.com/index.php/2011/05/giovanni-ramirez-gang-member/
TODAY'S NEWS

So today the news is “kinda filled” with the news of Mexican gang member Giovanni Ramirez.
Giovanni Ramirez who is living in Los Angeles was caught for the crime of assault with a deadly weapon for the beating into a coma of Bryan Stow, a 42-year-old father of two from Santa Cruz, California.
The news noticed they caught him, the noticed he beat a father of 2 into a coma at a dodgers game, they just didn’t notice he is a member of Varrio Nuevo Estrada Mexican street gang. They also didn’t seem to notice the 60%+ likeliness that this makes him an illegal alien, and the 90%+ likeliness that hes at minimum an anchor baby.
Not as much press as the Anchor baby that killed Osama, which turns out is a fake story but still managed to be on every channel and newspaper front page the next day.
It’s ok to mention race when it’s some make believe agenda pusher, but not when 3 Mexican gang members living in Los Angeles beat a white father into a coma for no reason......
MUCH MORE.....

Good luck, CA.

He also has three prior felony convictions...another good Angeleno...

[Deleted]

Another article..
www.latimes.com/news/local/sc-dc-0524-court-prisons-web-20110523,0,2337401.story

............In dissent, Justice Antonin Scalia called the ruling "staggering" and "absurd."

He said the high court had repeatedly overruled the 9th Circuit Court of Appeals for ordering the release of individual prisoners. Now, he said, the majority were ordering the release of "46,000 happy-go-lucky felons." He added that "terrible things are sure to happen as a consequence of this outrageous order." Justice Clarence Thomas agreed with him.

In a separate dissent, Justice Samuel A. Alito Jr. and Chief Justice John G. Roberts Jr. said the ruling conflicted with a federal law intended to limit the power of federal judges to order a release of prisoners......

.............The American Civil Liberties Union said the court had "done the right thing" by addressing the "egregious and extreme overcrowding in California's prisons."

David Fathi, director of the ACLU national prison project, said "reducing the number of people in prison not only would save the state taxpayers half a billion annually, it would lead to the implementation of truly rehabilitative programs that lower recidivism rates and create safer communities."

Meanwhile, the court took no action on another California case in which a conservative group is challenging the state's policy of granting in-state tuition at its colleges and universities to students who are illegal immigrants and have graduated from its high schools.

The justices said they would consider the appeal in a later private conference.
MORE..

[ed1066]

David Fathi, director of the ACLU national prison project, said "reducing the number of people in prison not only would save the state taxpayers half a billion annually, it would lead to the implementation of truly rehabilitative programs that lower recidivism rates and create safer communities."

How much do you want to bet this guy lives in a lily-white suburb that would actively block any released inmates from settling there? If he has courage in his convictions, he should lobby to have at least some of these inmates settled in his community...

[Deleted]

No worry. They will probably all be in college soon on tax payer $$$$ if you sane people in CA can't put a stop to this!

[❤ mollymouser ❤]

While there are a great many sane people in the State of California, few of them are involved in State politics.

[SweetVirginia]

May 23, 2011 15:01:59 GMT -5 @krickitt said:

Check this out, CA people and others-- the guy that beat the sports fan to brain damage...

www.charlotteconservative.com/index.php/2011/05/giovanni-ramirez-gang-member/
TODAY'S NEWS

So today the news is “kinda filled” with the news of Mexican gang member Giovanni Ramirez.
Giovanni Ramirez who is living in Los Angeles was caught for the crime of assault with a deadly weapon for the beating into a coma of Bryan Stow, a 42-year-old father of two from Santa Cruz, California.
The news noticed they caught him, the noticed he beat a father of 2 into a coma at a dodgers game, they just didn’t notice he is a member of Varrio Nuevo Estrada Mexican street gang. They also didn’t seem to notice the 60%+ likeliness that this makes him an illegal alien, and the 90%+ likeliness that hes at minimum an anchor baby.
Not as much press as the Anchor baby that killed Osama, which turns out is a fake story but still managed to be on every channel and newspaper front page the next day.
It’s ok to mention race when it’s some make believe agenda pusher, but not when 3 Mexican gang members living in Los Angeles beat a white father into a coma for no reason......
MUCH MORE.....

Good luck, CA.

You are right krickitt. It is possible that Ramirez is a gang member and might be the child of a former llegal immigrant (now legal though)

CA has major gang problems. Most of the Mexican and Salvadorian gangs are made up of illegal aliens or children of illegal aliens. For whatever political and economic reasons, CA government refuses to acknowledge the growing problem of gangs and illegal immigration.

[Deleted]

Sweet-- I bet it won't be just the potheads that get let out. I imagine the illegals that didn't rape or kill someone will be out the door, too, right back in the gangs. I could be wrong, but I know I keep up with illegal stuff and this just fits so well...

[❤ mollymouser ❤]

[txbo]

May 23, 2011 13:47:04 GMT -5 @krickitt said:

Not unless CA is SO liberal that felons have an edge on employment. I DO know here in AZ there is some kind of re-entry program for felons that get out of prison. I drove a guy in my cab That got a job making $27. an hour doing gas line work straight out of prison and living in a halfway house. Good for him, BUT................I also know of apt complexes that are parolees only, very low rent, state subsidized..... maybe normal people should go to prison for awhile to get ahead??? Seems it is better for people to go to prison in the long term than to just get probation and try to stay employed with that over their head... that's messed up..
Also cab company I once worked for only hired felons on parole for office workers because they HAD to behave, HAD to stay off drugs, HAD to go to work every day... and, most of all, they got a tax break for hiring felons... not sure if that was state or federal, but tis true.
And AZ is a basically conservative state. Good luck in liberal CA.

I think that guy was BS’ing you. I used to hire prisoners in Virginia for $3 per hour tops. The sheriff would deliver them to me in the morning by Van. I always made a big hit at the local coffee shop as we walked in with my prisoners wearing prison overalls.

[txbo]

The CA situation is based on a five-year plan so not all 47,000 prisoners would hit the street at once. Texas is also considering the same. I’m not a big supporter of letting prisoners out early but if the state can select whom it would release early, I can understand it. My guess is most will be back behind bars within a year. I may be wrong.

[Deleted]

txbo-- you were hiring prisoners. I am talking about programs for post release prisoners. The guy in my cab could have been lying to me, but I see no reason for him to. The cab company info I posted is 100% accurate. I worked there for over 6 years, knew all the dirt. Heck, that's how I met my accountant. She was in prison for embezzlement before she ran the cab company's accounting. To her credit she now does the books for a large dairy and is a contributing member of society. I don't think tax credits for hiring felons is unusual. Same for disabled people, I believe, but not sure on that one. I don't think that is fair in this economy, and may not even be happening any more, but it was as of 5 years ago in AZ.
;D

[AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP]

May 23, 2011 12:05:27 GMT -5 @lonewolf said:

May 23, 2011 12:01:44 GMT -5 AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP said:

There are far too many people in prison for bullshit "crimes". I hope they start with people charged with possession of controlled substances.

The problem here is that these are the same people that are ripping us off in order to buy their drugs.

Because government has driven up the price, and the risks.

[Deleted]

I agree that some drug offenders should be released, but some are very bad guys/girls. Gotta be careful there, especially considering that lots of people in prison only got busted for one of many crimes that they never got arrested for. I don't like drug laws, either, not because I like drugs, but because the drug war is a massive fail. Take one away, 10 more pop up.
That is exactly what a cop told me a few years ago when I snitched on a crack house I knew about from my cabbing because they have small children there. After a few weeks I spoke to the same cop, that I always parked near at night, asked him why I was still making drug runs to that house. He told me-- we watch the drug houses. Does no good to shut them down. Shut one down, 10 more pop up. Made me mad because of the kids in the house. I later learned from a druggie customer in my cab that those kids were the grandchildren of the dealers, and that their mother was in prison for selling crack... messed up. If CA lets people like this out of jail... I dunno... I don't know how the cops pick who to arrest any way. Sure did not help those kids arresting their mother. From one crack house to another, and the crack business carried on without her.
I also drove the great grandmother of those little kids to pick them up from the crack house on many Sundays and take them to church. Strange world, the drug world.

[deziloooooo]

May 24, 2011 6:25:11 GMT -5 txbo said:

The CA situation is based on a five-year plan so not all 47,000 prisoners would hit the street at once. Texas is also considering the same. I’m not a big supporter of letting prisoners out early but if the state can select whom it would release early, I can understand it. My guess is most will be back behind bars within a year. I may be wrong.

Just a little off topic but still on topic, who are in Prisons, NPR just finished interviewing a author of a new book, he is the leader/head of the group who defends those on death roll, in Texas, and it was very interesting.

He got into it by accident, was in favor of the death penalty at the time, went to a prison with a friend who was defending a convicted one just to observe, and afterwords on the drive home, was asked to take over the appeals on this one, even though had never done such a thing and it led to 50 years of doing this and being known as the most knowledgeable on the topic.

I am not taking a side here, but it was a good interview.
A lot brought out, and one of the things he believes, for those who believe in the death penalty, he doesn't now, but it took about 12 years to get that way, he was still doing the appeals while he believed in the death penalty, is for those who DO believe in it, the death penalty to also sign off on the fact that there WILL be some who are Innocent who will be put to death and they should just admit that as tragic as it is, they accept that possibility as the price we will pay to keep the penalty in effect.

I found that very interesting, and agree with him, for those who do believe in it to so sign off. It happens, and will continue to happen, and for me, that has me thinking that just possible, except for the most horrible, possible we are over doing it.

Just a fact Texas since Supreme Court came back with OK ing the penalty has executed about 480 [give or take a few], next largest # by State is Florida, my State, about 69 or so.