Swift Justice in Egypt, no fooling around ..

[deziloooooo]

What ever one says about justice in Muslim countries, the most populated, most powerful...when you think of how short a time the removal of Mubarak took place, just weeks ago, as you read this article , not only this particular former policeman , but also sentences of some who were much higher in the pecking order of the former regime.
Can we learn anything from them, fair but swift justice.Fair justice? Why not, prosecutors, witnesses, defense attorneys, laws that we have, as long as no out side governmental influence, if so, well let it come out. I am going with the idea, they don't move slow, no continuous flippant defense objections put up, to slow down the system, possible along the lines of the British system, they were the Colonial power here for a long time. Just a thought there, not sure of what the Egyptian legal system is based on.
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english.aljazeera.net/news/middleeast/2011/05/2011522154824715521.html
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Middle East

Death sentence for Egyptian policeman

Officer convicted of shooting dead 20 protesters during upheaval that led to Mubarak's fall.

Egyptians have continued to call for Mubarak-era officials to face prosecution over protester deaths [EPA]

An Egyptian police officer convicted of killing 20 protesters during demonstrations that brought down Hosni Mubarak's government in February has been sentenced to death.

Mohamed Ibrahim Abdel-Monem was found guilty in his absence on Sunday of shooting dead "at random" 20 protesters on January 28, one of the most violent days of the uprising that lasted 18 days.

The criminal court in Cairo referred the case to the Grand Mufti, Egypt's religious authority who must approve all death sentences. Abdel-Monem has evaded capture and his present location is unknown.

The sentencing follows long jail terms given to Mubarak-era officials who have been found guilty of corruption in an ongoing campaign by the military-led government to address protesters' demands, including swift trial for people accused of wrongdoing.

Mubarak himself, his wife Suzanne and his powerful sons are being investigated for abuse of power and amassing illegally acquired wealth.

In May, Habib al-Adly, Egypt's former interior minister, was sentenced to 12 years in jail for money laundering and profiteering.

Al-Adly is accused of ordering police to fire upon pro-democracy protesters and is one of the most senior ministers from the former government to be put on trial.

Another former minister, Zoheir Garranah, who headed the tourism portfolio, was sentenced to five years after he was found guilty of handing out tourism licences illegally."

[Deleted]

Well, good they caught a bad guy. Yes, I am sure the Muslim Brotherhood will exact quick vengeance... like burning down the Coptic Christian churches a few weeks ago.

[deziloooooo]

May 22, 2011 15:21:58 GMT -5 @krickitt said:

Well, good they caught a bad guy. Yes, I am sure the Muslim Brotherhood will exact quick vengeance... like burning down the Coptic Christian churches a few weeks ago.

How did the brother hood get into this topic?
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"Soul, first Mass in the Coptic church burned down by Islamic extremists
Over 700 people attended the celebration. The reconstruction of the church of St. Mina and St. George took place thanks to the army. The Copts complain of the failure to arrest Islamic extremists responsible for the sttack and announce new protests.


Cairo (AsiaNews / Agencies) - The Coptic Christians of the village of Soul (30 km south of Cairo) once again have their church, destroyed on March 4 by Islamic extremists (pictured) and rebuilt in exactly one month thanks to 'support of the army. Yesterday morning, more than 700 people attended the first Mass and the ceremony of raising the cross on the roof of the building.

Adel Medhat, Coptic Christian from the village, thanked the soldiers who allowed him to pray again in his church. Many Christian activists have praised the work of the army, which last March 13 had promised the reconstruction of the building before Easter, after protests by tens of thousands of Copts and moderate Muslims.

The simple reconstruction of the church, however, has not satisfied many of the villagers, who accuse authorities of not doing anything to prosecute the perpetrators of the fire, preferring to informally resolve the conflict between Christian and Muslim communities. For tomorrow, Coptic activists will stage a demonstration to demand the arrest and conviction of extremists responsible for the attack and the release of more than 17 Christians arrested during the protests which took place last March 11
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While there may have been members of the Brother Hood in the group of the Muslim Extremists who burned the church, I doubt that they were directly involved in ordering such action, or being involved in any way ias a organization formenting the act.
It just is not in their interests to do so, turn people aginst them , especially now as the Egyptians think about a new constitution, put together the rules for elections, not wanting to run into any problems, prejudice against their organization.
I wouls suggest in fact that the leaders of the movement , Brother Hood, took actions against those of their organization who MIGHT have been perasonally involved.

Who knows how drastic.

As you suggest something you have no way of knowing,

{actually to just put up such a claim with out any links , articles dealing with it is inappropriate. If you have such articles, post the link}

I will do the same, suggest possible go to the desert areas of the area involved and look for some graves of those who might have been involved.
I believe they, Brother Hood , takes strict action when members screw up, go against their wishes , and I feel here their wishes would be to not do this act, don't be personally involved.

Just a thought. I would also suggest if I did a google search , I would find cases , articles that the Brother Hood condemned the burning of these plces of worship. Also a thought of mine.

[henryclay]

desi says:

you suggest something you have no way of knowing,

{actually to just put up such a claim with out any links , articles dealing with it is inappropriate. If you have such articles, post the link}

and:

if I did a google search , I would find cases , articles that the Brother Hood condemned the burning of these plces of worship. Also a thought of mine.

Accusing another poster of having thoughts without backing them up is a practice for some.

Follow that be posting different thoughts without backing them up makes the initial accusation comical.

Then follow it all by threatening to find a backup for the unsubstantiated thoughts makes it fair game for challenge.

So let's see the links that support your thesis, desi. Can you show us anything that shows a hands off position taken by the MB in Egypt? Even better, one that demonstrates action taken by the Brotherhood against any of its members?

[Deleted]

There have been dozens and dozens of MB links on this board. Why post the same stuff over and over? If you care to post links about how great the MB is, and how wonderful and peaceful Egypt will be after the MB takes over feel free to do so.

[deziloooooo]

May 22, 2011 16:14:27 GMT -5 @krickitt said:

There have been dozens and dozens of MB links on this board. Why post the same stuff over and over? If you care to post links about how great the MB is, and how wonderful and peaceful Egypt will be after the MB takes over feel free to do so.

mmmm, now you are telling me what to post as a thread, you who post, and post threads, with nary/never a objection by anyone. regarding your threads.

You get up from bed today the wrong way.

That's what we do here , we find a article, possible comment on it, some do, some don't , so you get a idea of the one who is postings ideas are on the topic, then post the link, a short part of the article and see where it goes.

So what seems to be your problem here.

By the way, this article of swift justice for one who was convicted of 20 murders of innocent potestors as well as later in the article of other convictions, swiftly of other officials of the old Mubarak regime, convicted of abusing their positions, stealing or selling services had no mention of the MB, and the only one who brought up the Muslim Brotherhood was you when the article I posted had no mention of that at all, just the convictions.

It was your , typical for you, off the hip comment making a suggestion, more then that, making the claim that they , MB, were responsible for burning Coptic Churches , which was also not mentioned in the posted article.

The posted article had nothing to do with the Brother hood, any where or copic churches or the burning of.

My answer to you was where is the relevance of that topic , MB, regardiing the article and my question and suggesting to you that if , even though having nothing to do with the article, your claim , in my opinion, held no water and the reason why I felt that way.

You keep shooting any BS from the hip and then when I or anyone answer your off the wall suggestions, you get so up set with them.

Suggest get with it already, geting old.

[deziloooooo]

May 22, 2011 16:07:36 GMT -5 henryclay said:

desi says:

you suggest something you have no way of knowing,

{actually to just put up such a claim with out any links , articles dealing with it is inappropriate. If you have such articles, post the link}

and:

if I did a google search , I would find cases , articles that the Brother Hood condemned the burning of these plces of worship. Also a thought of mine.

Accusing another poster of having thoughts without backing them up is a practice for some.

Follow that be posting different thoughts without backing them up makes the initial accusation comical.

Then follow it all by threatening to find a backup for the unsubstantiated thoughts makes it fair game for challenge.

So let's see the links that support your thesis, desi. Can you show us anything that shows a hands off position taken by the MB in Egypt? Even better, one that demonstrates action taken by the Brotherhood against any of its members?

As far as my suggestion of possible action taken against the possible members of the Brother hood who took part, I stated as Krickett was putting up a hypothesis with no back up, so was i regarding my thoughts of POSSIBLE actions against them, just a thought.
Suggest improve your reading skills.
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My post regarding my ideas , response to Kricketts suggestion, hypothesis
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"As you suggest something you have no way of knowing,

{actually to just put up such a claim with out any links , articles dealing with it is inappropriate. If you have such articles, post the link}

I will do the same, suggest possible go to the desert areas of the area involved and look for some graves of those who might have been involved.
I believe they, Brother Hood , takes strict action when members screw up, go against their wishes , and I feel here their wishes would be to not do this act, don't be personally involved.
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They say if you ask you may receive..so here ya go and there are others.
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..Muslim Brotherhood calls for protection of churches

Muslim Brotherhood calls for protection of churches
Omar Mazin | Nov 03, 2010
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CAIRO: Egypt’s Muslim Brotherhood urged the state to protect Christian places of worship after an Al-Qaeda group in Iraq, which claimed a deadly attack on a church in Baghdad, issued a threat against Egypt’s Coptic church. Al-Azhar also condemned the attacks in statement on Tuesday.

“The Muslim Brotherhood is stressing to all, and primarily Muslims, that the protection of holy places of all monotheistic religions is the mission of the majority of Muslims,” the group said in a statement on its website late on Tuesday.

“The Brothers reject all stupid threats against Christian places of worship in Egypt issued by anyone and under any pretext,” the group said.

“The Egyptian state and the Egyptian people must protect holy places of all worshippers of monotheistic religions,” it added.

The self-proclaimed Islamic State of Iraq (ISI) has declared Christians “legitimate targets” as a deadline expired for Egypt’s Coptic church to free women allegedly held after converting to Islam.

ISI said in an internet statement its threat was justified by the church’s refusal to indicate the status of the women it said were being held captive in monasteries, the US-based monitoring group SITE said.

“All Christian centers, organizations and institutions, leaders and followers, are legitimate targets for the mujahedeen (holy warriors) wherever they can reach them,” said the statement.

The group which claimed the capturing of Christians in a Baghdad church that ended Sunday with the killing of 46 worshippers in a rescue drama, had said that the attack was to seek the release of the alleged converts in Egypt.

An Egyptian security source told AFP that security around Coptic places of worship had been “discreetly reinforced with plainclothes police and patrols.”

Egypt’s top cleric condemned on Tuesday the massacre of hostages by Al-Qaeda gunmen in a Baghdad church, calling it a “heinous act,” his spokesman said.

Ahmed al-Tayyeb, grand imam of Al-Azhar, the oldest Islamic seat of learning, affirmed that “Islam and Muslims have nothing to do with such acts, which harm Islam and violate Islamic precepts,” state news agency Mena quoted spokesman Mohamed Al-Tahtawi as saying.

“Regarding the threat to target Egyptian churches, Al-Tayyeb affirmed that this is something to be rejected and strongly denounced, and it serves none but those who want to spark discord and target national unity,” Al-Tahtawi said

[Deleted]

MB is taking control of Egypt, Dez. Surely you know that. And, no, I'm not going to post links posted elsewhere. LOL, I don't have to. And I know you know this stuff because you participate in threads about it. I agreed with you-- there will be swift justice. The future will tell what form it take if MB gets power, with help from the USA, of course.

[Deleted]

www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2011/05/egypts-muslim-brotherhood-sticks-with-bin-laden/238218/

Egypt's Muslim Brotherhood Sticks With Bin Laden
MAY 3 2011, 7:00 AM ET
Most of yesterday's headlines proclaiming the death of Osama bin Laden used epithets like "terror mastermind" or "bastard" to refer to the internationally feared mass murderer. (That latter headline is from the New York Post.) But in its first public statement on the killing of bin Laden, Egypt's Muslim Brotherhood used the honorific term "sheikh" to refer to the al-Qaeda leader. It also accused Western governments of linking Islam and terrorism, and defended "resistance" against the U.S. presence in Iraq and Afghanistan as "legitimate."

The Muslim Brotherhood's response to bin Laden's death may finally end the mythology -- espoused frequently in the U.S. -- that the organization is moderate or, at the very least, could moderate once in power. This is, after all, precisely how Muslim Brothers describe their creed -- "moderate," as opposed to al-Qaeda, which is radical. "Moderate Islam means not using violence, denouncing terrorism, and not working with jihadists," said Muslim Brotherhood youth activist Khaled Hamza, for whom the organization's embrace of "moderate Islam" was the primary reason he joined.

Yet the Muslim Brotherhood's promise that its "moderation" means rejecting violence includes a gaping exception: the organization endorses violence against military occupations, which its leaders have told me include Iraq, Afghanistan, Chechnya, Bosnia, and Palestine -- in other words, nearly every major conflict on the Eurasian continent. "I never fought in Afghanistan," Mehdi Akef, the former Supreme Guide of the Muslim Brotherhood, told me in January, just before the revolt. "But I encouraged them and sent money to Bosnia and Palestine until now." Muslim Brotherhood leaders have endorsed attacks on Israeli civilians as an exception to their no-violence-except-against-occupation exception, viewing all of Israel as an occupation. "Zionism is gangs," said Akef. "It's not a country. So we will resist them until they don't have a country."

The attacks of September 11, 2001, however, created a real problem for the Muslim Brotherhood's paradigms, since it was a violent attack against civilians on territory that could not be considered occupied. Rather than denounce the attacks, however, the organization chose to argue, outrageously, that Islamists were not responsible.

In some cases, Muslim Brothers have simply expressed doubts about the "theory" that al-Qaeda was behind the attacks. "I don't believe it was jihadists. It was too big an operation," said Abdel Monem Aboul Fotouh, a former member of the Muslim Brotherhood Guidance Office who is often touted as one of the organization's reformers. "This was done by a country, not individuals. It's not a conspiracy theory -- it's just logical. They didn't bring this crime before the U.S. justice system until now. Why? Because it's part of a conspiracy."

More frequently, Muslim Brotherhood leaders blame a more predictable target. "The Jews and the Zionist lobby," Muslim Brotherhood legal thinker and former parliamentarian Sobhi Saleh declared to me one March afternoon in his Cairo office, when I asked him who was responsible for the attacks. "And this study is well-known in America and it's on the Internet. And a Christian preacher in Lebanon gave me a book on this at a conference. And it was a scientific research."

Now in their most recent statement on the death of bin Laden, the Muslim Brotherhood has gone a step further. "The whole world, and especially the Muslims, have lived with a fierce media campaign to brand Islam as terrorism and describe the Muslims as violent by blaming the September 11th incident on al-Qaeda." It then notes that "Sheikh Osama bin Laden" was assassinated alongside "a woman and one of his sons and with a number of his companions," going on to issue a rejection of violence and assassinations. It goes on to ominously declare that the Muslim Brotherhood supports "legitimate resistance against foreign occupation for any country, which is the legitimate right guaranteed by divine laws and international agreements," and demands that the U.S., the European Union, and NATO quickly "end the occupation of Afghanistan and Iraq, and recognize the legitimate rights of the Palestinian people." It closes by demanding that the U.S. "stop its intelligence operations against those who differ with it, and cease its interference in the internal affairs of any Arab or Muslim country."

In a way, the Muslim Brotherhood's statement is vintage bin Laden: it's Muslim lands, not America, that are under attack; it's Muslims, not American civilians, who are the ultimate victims; and, despite two American presidents' genuine, effusive promises to the contrary, Islam is the target. It's an important indicator that despite its increased responsibility in post-Mubarak Egypt, the Muslim Brotherhood may well remain deeply hostile toward even the one of the most basic and defensible of American interests in the Middle East -- that of securing Americans from terrorism.

[deziloooooo]

May 22, 2011 17:26:55 GMT -5 @krickitt said:

MB is taking control of Egypt, Dez. Surely you know that. And, no, I'm not going to post links posted elsewhere. LOL, I don't have to. And I know you know this stuff because you participate in threads about it. I agreed with you-- there will be swift justice. The future will tell what form it take if MB gets power, with help from the USA, of course.

No I don't and neither do you. You are hearing sound bytes by talking heads, doing little research your self and just posting your ideas as the way it is.

As far as the MB, time will tell, with the Military not giving up control,

{ that is one of the complaints coming from the ones , young people, four of the leaders as well as the woman attorney who is so involved on all these events from the side of the protesters were on Zakaria today , voicing their concerns }

and the thought that they are a long way from holding elections, and better for that, to give all parties more time to get all the ducks set up in a row. The MB is the most organized but by a longer waiting period , other parties have time to form.

Concern now in Egypt , the next uprising, will be not the young students as this one was, and the educated but the poor , over 7 million of them, where there are so many, and who's main concerns is food, shelter $, they have none, and that is what they will be demanding and Egypt is broke.
Thus the aid offered by Obama , very important if one wants this revolution to succeed.