|
Post by lakhota on May 20, 2011 1:45:36 GMT -5
A Synopsis of the Israel/Palestine ConflictThe following is a very short synopsis of the history of this conflict. We recommend that you also read the much more detailed account, "The Origin of the Palestine-Israel Conflict." For centuries there was no such conflict. In the 19th century the land of Palestine was inhabited by a multicultural population – approximately 86 percent Muslim, 10 percent Christian, and 4 percent Jewish – living in peace. ZionismIn the late 1800s a group in Europe decided to colonize this land. Known as Zionists, they represented an extremist minority of the Jewish population. Their goal was to create a Jewish homeland, and they considered locations in Africa and the Americas, before settling on Palestine. At first, this immigration created no problems. However, as more and more Zionists immigrated to Palestine – many with the express wish of taking over the land for a Jewish state – the indigenous population became increasingly alarmed. Eventually, fighting broke out, with escalating waves of violence. Hitler's rise to power, combined with Zionist activities to sabotage efforts to place Jewish refugees in western countries, led to increased Jewish immigration to Palestine, and conflict grew. UN Partition PlanFinally, in 1947 the United Nations decided to intervene. However, rather than adhering to the principle of “self-determination of peoples,” in which the people themselves create their own state and system of government, the UN chose to revert to the medieval strategy whereby an outside power divides up other people’s land. Under considerable Zionist pressure, the UN recommended giving away 55% of Palestine to a Jewish state – despite the fact that this group represented only about 30% of the total population, and owned under 7% of the land. 1947-1949 WarWhile it is widely reported that the resulting war eventually included five Arab armies, less well known is the fact that throughout this war Zionist forces outnumbered all Arab and Palestinian combatants combined – often by a factor of two to three. Moreover, Arab armies did not invade Israel – virtually all battles were fought on land that was to have been the Palestinian state. Finally, it is significant to note that Arab armies entered the conflict only after Zionist forces had committed 16 massacres, including the grisly massacre of over 100 men, women, and children at Deir Yassin. Future Israeli Prime Minister Menachem Begin, head of one of the Jewish terrorist groups, described this as “splendid,” and stated: “As in Deir Yassin, so everywhere, we will attack and smite the enemy. God, God, Thou has chosen us for conquest.” Zionist forces committed 33 massacres altogether. By the end of the war, Israel had conquered 78 percent of Palestine; three-quarters of a million Palestinians had been made refugees; over 500 towns and villages had been obliterated; and a new map was drawn up, in which every city, river and hillock received a new, Hebrew name, as all vestiges of the Palestinian culture were to be erased. For decades Israel denied the existence of this population, former Israeli Prime Minister Golda Meir once saying: “There is no such thing as a Palestinian.” 1967 War & USS LibertyIn 1967, Israel conquered still more land. Following the Six Day War, in which Israeli forces launched a highly successful surprise attack on Egypt, Israel occupied the final 22% of Palestine that had eluded it in 1948 – the West Bank and Gaza Strip. Since, according to international law it is inadmissible to acquire territory by war, these are occupied territories and do not belong to Israel. It also occupied parts of Egypt (since returned) and Syria (which remain under occupation). Also during the Six Day War, Israel attacked a US Navy ship, the USS Liberty, killing and injuring over 200 American servicemen. President Lyndon Johnson recalled rescue flights, saying that he did not want to "embarrass an ally." (In 2004 a high-level commission chaired by Admiral Thomas Moorer, former Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, found this attack to be “an act of war against the United States,” a fact few news media have reported.) Current ConflictThere are two primary issues at the core of this continuing conflict. First, there is the inevitably destabilizing effect of trying to maintain an ethnically preferential state, particularly when it is largely of foreign origin. The original population of what is now Israel was 96 percent Muslim and Christian, yet, these refugees are prohibited from returning to their homes in the self-described Jewish state (and those within Israel are subjected to systematic discrimination). Second, Israel's continued military occupation and confiscation of privately owned land in the West Bank, and control over Gaza, are extremely oppressive, with Palestinians having minimal control over their lives. Over 10,000 Palestinian men, women, and children are held in Israeli prisons. Few of them have had a legitimate trial; Physical abuse and torture are frequent. Palestinian borders (even internal ones) are controlled by Israeli forces. Periodically men, women, and children are strip searched; people are beaten; women in labor are prevented from reaching hospitals (at times resulting in death); food and medicine are blocked from entering Gaza, producing an escalating humanitarian crisis. Israeli forces invade almost daily, injuring, kidnapping, and sometimes killing inhabitants. According to the Oslo peace accords of 1993, these territories were supposed to finally become a Palestinian state. However, after years of Israel continuing to confiscate land and conditions steadily worsening, the Palestinian population rebelled. (The Barak offer, widely reputed to be generous, was anything but.) This uprising, called the "Intifada" (Arabic for "shaking off") began at the end of September 2000. U.S. InvolvementLargely due to special-interest lobbying, U.S. taxpayers give Israel an average of $7 million per day, and since its creation have given more U.S. funds to Israel than to any other nation. As Americans learn about how Israel is using our tax dollars, many are calling for an end to this expenditure. www.ifamericansknew.org/history/The Origin of the Palestine-Israel Conflict (Long): www.ifamericansknew.org/history/origin.htmlNOTE: The U.S. actually gives Israel $8.4 million per day (Obama's 2012 budget calls for $3.075 billion).
|
|
|
Post by lakhota on May 20, 2011 1:46:56 GMT -5
Dear Moderators:
I personally thought this was worthy of a separate thread. If you disagree I will understand.
|
|
Value Buy
Senior Associate
Joined: Dec 20, 2010 17:57:07 GMT -5
Posts: 18,680
Today's Mood: Getting better by the day!
Location: In the middle of enjoying retirement!
Favorite Drink: Zombie Dust from Three Floyd's brewery
Mini-Profile Name Color: e61975
Mini-Profile Text Color: 196ce6
|
Post by Value Buy on May 20, 2011 7:16:35 GMT -5
1967 War & USS Liberty Quote In 1967, Israel conquered still more land. Following the Six Day War, in which Israeli forces launched a highly successful surprise attack on Egypt, Israel occupied the final 22% of Palestine that had eluded it in 1948 – the West Bank and Gaza Strip. Since, according to international law it is inadmissible to acquire territory by war, these are occupied territories and do not belong to Israel. It also occupied parts of Egypt (since returned) and Syria (which remain under occupation). Endquote
You had me until this paragraph. I actually thought you might have found and posted an honest assessment of Israel, up to this statement. Silly me. You are only continueing to prove Ed correct about your real feelings about the Jewish Israeli people.
|
|
|
Post by lakhota on May 20, 2011 8:34:40 GMT -5
What about that paragraph is untrue? What have Jews for Justice in The Middle East said that was untrue?
|
|
|
Post by magichat on May 20, 2011 8:41:33 GMT -5
Your snyopsis is a bit one sided, or did you really not know that Egypt was as ready to attack Israel in the 6 days war?
There is a difference in telling the truth and telling the whole truth.
|
|
Deleted
Joined: May 2, 2024 12:44:35 GMT -5
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on May 20, 2011 8:44:53 GMT -5
This summarized history of Israel doesn't seem all that different from the formation of our own country. Indigenous people are always being displaced by new orders throughout human history. Maybe France shouldn't of helped us during our early years?
|
|
|
Post by lakhota on May 20, 2011 8:46:09 GMT -5
Where did you people learn history? The war began with a large-scale surprise air strike by Israel on Egypt.
|
|
Deleted
Joined: May 2, 2024 12:44:35 GMT -5
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on May 20, 2011 8:48:50 GMT -5
Where did you people learn history? The war began with a large-scale surprise air strike by Israel on Egypt. Which says nothing about Egypts readiness
|
|
|
Post by magichat on May 20, 2011 8:48:55 GMT -5
In May 1967, Nasser received false reports from the Soviet Union that Israel was massing on the Syrian border[18]. Nasser began massing his troops in the Sinai Peninsula on Israel's border (May 16), expelled the UNEF force from Gaza and Sinai (May 19) and took up UNEF positions at Sharm el-Sheikh, overlooking the Straits of Tiran.[19][20] Israel reiterated declarations made in 1957 that any closure of the Straits would be considered an act of war, or justification for war.[21][22] Nasser declared the Straits closed to Israeli shipping on May 22–23. On May 30, Jordan and Egypt signed a defense pact. The following day, at Jordan's invitation, the Iraqi army began deploying troops and armored units in Jordan.[23] They were later reinforced by an Egyptian contingent. On June 1, Israel formed a National Unity Government by widening its cabinet, and on June 4 the decision was made to go to war. The next morning, Israel launched Operation Focus, a large-scale surprise air strike that was the opening of the Six-Day War. Like I said, the whole truth, geez. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/6_days_war
|
|
|
Post by lakhota on May 20, 2011 8:52:04 GMT -5
Spin, spin, spin...
|
|
|
Post by magichat on May 20, 2011 8:53:37 GMT -5
Label it whatever you want, or do you have some evidence to dispute the majore buildup of Egyptian troops in the Sinai?
|
|
Deleted
Joined: May 2, 2024 12:44:35 GMT -5
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on May 20, 2011 9:45:00 GMT -5
Some people seem to think Israel should just sit silently and be blown to bits before they react. If Israel was not aggressive in her own defense, there would BE no Israel. You mean THIS group, Lak?? Jews For Justice for Palestine??? Just another radical group. Jews that support Hamas. Give me a break. jfjfp.com/
|
|
ihearyou2
Well-Known Member
I smell better then I look
Joined: Dec 20, 2010 13:05:34 GMT -5
Posts: 1,857
|
Post by ihearyou2 on May 20, 2011 11:27:59 GMT -5
I am not sure if there is one piece of truth to the entire article, quite remarkable. If I had a day I could deconstruct it piece by piece.
|
|
|
Post by lakhota on May 20, 2011 12:03:00 GMT -5
I am not sure if there is one piece of truth to the entire article, quite remarkable. If I had a day I could deconstruct it piece by piece. Apparently all you can do is smear...
|
|
AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP
Distinguished Associate
Joined: Dec 21, 2010 11:59:07 GMT -5
Posts: 31,709
Favorite Drink: Sweetwater 420
|
Post by AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP on May 20, 2011 12:08:01 GMT -5
You skipped the part about Israel being there 6,000 years ago, and the Roman genocide of the Jews around 600 a.d. and their deliberately re-naming Jerusalem and the land of Israel-- which they changed to "Palestine"- a bastardization of the name of the Jew's enemies the Philistines.
|
|
ihearyou2
Well-Known Member
I smell better then I look
Joined: Dec 20, 2010 13:05:34 GMT -5
Posts: 1,857
|
Post by ihearyou2 on May 20, 2011 13:11:01 GMT -5
I am not sure if there is one piece of truth to the entire article, quite remarkable. If I had a day I could deconstruct it piece by piece. Apparently all you can do is smear... That was what the article did, quite shocking in its revisionist history but purposeful which is the most dangerous.
|
|
|
Post by magichat on May 20, 2011 13:30:17 GMT -5
I am not sure if there is one piece of truth to the entire article, quite remarkable. If I had a day I could deconstruct it piece by piece. Apparently all you can do is smear... So that would be an answer of "no" about having in contradictory facts to what I posted. Got it, glad to see you are all hat and no cattle.
|
|
|
Post by magichat on May 20, 2011 13:42:33 GMT -5
You skipped the part about Israel being there 6,000 years ago, and the Roman genocide of the Jews around 600 a.d. and their deliberately re-naming Jerusalem and the land of Israel-- which they changed to "Palestine"- a bastardization of the name of the Jew's enemies the Philistines. Do you have a link showing that Palestine didn't show up until Roman times? This timeline shows differently. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_the_name_Palestine
|
|
deziloooooo
Senior Associate
Joined: Dec 20, 2010 16:22:04 GMT -5
Posts: 10,723
|
Post by deziloooooo on May 20, 2011 13:46:46 GMT -5
The title of the thread of Lakhota and the subsequent 1/4 and 1/2 truths of the thread put up by Lakhota is one that is straight out of the revisionist play book, some facts that happened but are only a part of the story , which is common on all historical incidents.
Does anyone really believe the "Boston Tea Party" is the real cause of our Revolution against King George back in the day,. It happened, but..there was SO MUCH MORE to the story.
Same here, and since Lakhota's real feelings have come out in many posts of his, using those "key words" key phrases, even he isn't aware of, his bias is known and to bother to refute item by item , is just a waste of time, as one did, rather then discuss the posts put up that are shedding a different light on the topic , not what he would be interested in, he would be scurrying around on his little feet, pulling up other 1/4 and 1/2 truths to defect from a real discussion, not his own words by the way, have you noticed how few times Lakhota ever posts his thoughts, just article after article of others or organizations with their own agenda on the topics.
|
|
|
Post by ed1066 on May 20, 2011 13:54:10 GMT -5
Indeed. A "synopsis" of the conflict from the point of view of a raging anti-Semite? Amusing, predictable, totally bigoted? Yes, yes, and yes...if you loved your country as much as you hate the Jews, you would not have so many issues.
|
|
Deleted
Joined: May 2, 2024 12:44:35 GMT -5
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on May 20, 2011 13:57:24 GMT -5
You skipped the part about Israel being there 6,000 years ago, and the Roman genocide of the Jews around 600 a.d. and their deliberately re-naming Jerusalem and the land of Israel-- which they changed to "Palestine"- a bastardization of the name of the Jew's enemies the Philistines. I remember having a very similar discussion with Comokate a couple of years ago on MSN's site with her taking the same position as Lakhota using a very short and recent time frame to portray the Jewish people in a negative light. When you consider their considerably lengthy history and get the whole story, Lakhota's position is as about as relevant as judging an 80 year old man's lifetime accomplishments by what he did in the last 5 minutes.
|
|
Deleted
Joined: May 2, 2024 12:44:35 GMT -5
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on May 20, 2011 14:07:35 GMT -5
Lak wasn't even totally honest about the organization he mentioned. Jews For Justice in the Middle East.. I looked it up, could only find Jews For Justice for PALESTINE!!! I posted the link above. If you look around it you will see where Lak's head is at when it comes to Israel, unless Lak can show me some OTHER organization than the one I found, which may be Jews, but they are BRITS that support Palestine.
|
|
|
Post by lakhota on May 20, 2011 14:15:09 GMT -5
Dezi, since you seem to be a self-proclaimed expert on Israeli/Palestinian affairs, I will not attempt to argue the finer points with you. But I will say this...
Do I believe the OP is 100% accurate? I honestly don't know. But this I do know: It portrays a much different historical perspective than the one usually coming out of Israel. Also, I'm 64 years old, and the OP portrays Israeli/Palestinian history more closely to how I remember it during my lifetime.
You can try to dismiss/smear me as anti-Semitic all you want. If it's anti-Semitic to not totally condemn Palestinians and exalt Israel - then I guess I'm anti-Semitic. However, I think it's very telling of those who condemn people as anti-Semitic just for not praising Israel and bashing Palestinians. There are two sides to this conflict, and neither are saints. However, I believe Israel has historically been the bully.
|
|
|
Post by magichat on May 20, 2011 14:18:24 GMT -5
Please explain how you are trying to be fair and equitable by claiming only that Israel started the 6 days war with a surprise attack, without mentioning first the closing of the Suez or the massing of troops in the Sinai? Have you ever been sworn into court and asked to tell the whole truth? Do you know what that means?
|
|
deziloooooo
Senior Associate
Joined: Dec 20, 2010 16:22:04 GMT -5
Posts: 10,723
|
Post by deziloooooo on May 20, 2011 14:21:47 GMT -5
Lak wasn't even totally honest about the organization he mentioned. Jews For Justice in the Middle East.. I looked it up, could only find Jews For Justice for PALESTINE!!! I posted the link above. If you look around it you will see where Lak's head is at when it comes to Israel, unless Lak can show me some OTHER organization than the one I found, which may be Jews, but they are BRITS that support Palestine. I know exactly where Lakhota is coming from, however at times he will post a article that has facts that I agree with, and I will post accordingly. That doesn't mean what he posted, the article or my thoughts on it are correct. For those who disagree, just post the objections, you might , probably will at times, post good retorts to the views expressed. However, when I do so post, in a positive way on the posted article, my agreement is not on his personal views and beliefs, which are readedly apparent, { not suure of raving is the right word ed but I get your point and in some ways agree, can you believe that, , it is the article I am posting about, positive or against, not Lakhotas personal feeling of the "those "people. Those I just {sigh} and move on from, no way one can discuss such ideas logically, so for me , best to just mosey along. Some times a quick shower after encountering his thoughts is also something that as Martha says, "It's a good thing "
|
|
|
Post by lakhota on May 20, 2011 14:27:31 GMT -5
Lak wasn't even totally honest about the organization he mentioned. Jews For Justice in the Middle East.. I looked it up, could only find Jews For Justice for PALESTINE!!! I posted the link above. If you look around it you will see where Lak's head is at when it comes to Israel, unless Lak can show me some OTHER organization than the one I found, which may be Jews, but they are BRITS that support Palestine. Once again I will post the 2nd link from the OP. And if you click on the link you will see the following at the top and bottom of the article: TOP Published by Jews for Justice in the Middle East BOTTOM Thank you for taking the time to read
“The Origin of the Palestine-Israel Conflict”
Compiled, Edited, and Published by Jews for Justice in The Middle East The Origin of the Palestine-Israel Conflict (Long): www.ifamericansknew.org/history/origin.html
|
|
|
Post by lakhota on May 20, 2011 14:32:50 GMT -5
Please explain how you are trying to be fair and equitable by claiming only that Israel started the 6 days war with a surprise attack, without mentioning first the closing of the Suez or the massing of troops in the Sinai? Have you ever been sworn into court and asked to tell the whole truth? Do you know what that means? Are you saying Israel didn't launch a "surprise" AIR attack?
|
|
|
Post by magichat on May 20, 2011 14:36:11 GMT -5
Please explain how you are trying to be fair and equitable by claiming only that Israel started the 6 days war with a surprise attack, without mentioning first the closing of the Suez or the massing of troops in the Sinai? Have you ever been sworn into court and asked to tell the whole truth? Do you know what that means? Are you saying Israel didn't launch a "surprise" AIR attack? Did I say that, no I didn't. Of course I recognize that singular event as the outright start of hostilities. But I don't look at events in a vacuum I actually view historical evidence leading up to the event. Now answer the damn question, do you know what it means to tell the whole truth?
|
|
Deleted
Joined: May 2, 2024 12:44:35 GMT -5
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on May 20, 2011 14:47:04 GMT -5
hhmmmmm........... I DID find your Jews For Justice in the Middle East... a few places... and here it is right from Harvard-- where Obama got his "training". But, geez, all the links inside are DEAD. Wonder why...What we ARE able to see pretty much explains their "mission." www.physics.harvard.edu/~wilson/Washington%20Report%20%20Jews%20for%20Justice.htmOther places I saw the name are JUST like the link I posted. These are Jewish people against Israel, and pro-Palestine. If that is how you choose to get your news, that's your business, but admit, at least, that it is not factual and is very biased.
|
|
|
Post by lakhota on May 20, 2011 14:55:13 GMT -5
What is it about " synopsis" that you don't understand? The 1967 War and the Israeli Occupation of the West Bank and GazaDid the Egyptians actually start the 1967 war, as Israel originally claimed?“The former Commander of the Air Force, General Ezer Weitzman, regarded as a hawk, stated that there was ‘no threat of destruction’ but that the attack on Egypt, Jordan and Syria was nevertheless justified so that Israel could ‘exist according the scale, spirit, and quality she now embodies.’...Menahem Begin had the following remarks to make: ‘In June 1967, we again had a choice. The Egyptian Army concentrations in the Sinai approaches do not prove that Nasser was really about to attack us. We must be honest with ourselves. We decided to attack him.’“ Noam Chomsky, “The Fateful Triangle.” Was the 1967 war defenisve? — continued“ I do not think Nasser wanted war. The two divisions he sent to The Sinai would not have been sufficient to launch an offensive war. He knew it and we knew it.” Yitzhak Rabin, Israel’s Chief of Staff in 1967, in Le Monde, 2/28/68 Moshe Dayan posthumously speaks out on the Golan Heights“Moshe Dayan, the celebrated commander who, as Defense Minister in 1967, gave the order to conquer the Golan...[said] many of the firefights with the Syrians were deliberately provoked by Israel, and the kibbutz residents who pressed the Government to take the Golan Heights did so less for security than for the farmland...[Dayan stated] ‘They didn’t even try to hide their greed for the land...We would send a tractor to plow some area where it wasn’t possible to do anything, in the demilitarized area, and knew in advance that the Syrians would start to shoot. If they didn’t shoot, we would tell the tractor to advance further, until in the end the Syrians would get annoyed and shoot. And then we would use artillery and later the air force also, and that’s how it was...The Syrians, on the fourth day of the war, were not a threat to us.’” The New York Times, May 11, 1997 www.ifamericansknew.org/history/origin.html
|
|