School dropouts.

[ugonow]

I agree.Dumb idea. This was discussed on Fox yesterday morning.I think a better idea would be to expand vocational alternatives,give them a chance to learn a trade instead of algebra.

[cme1201]

It's something Florida has done since 1989. If you are under 18 and dropout of school, times can be hard.

www.nytimes.com/1989/10/04/us/education-florida-bars-licenses-to-reduce-dropout-toll.html
www.highschooldriver.com/driving-law/florida-truancy.shtml

Attendance Requirements and Driving Privileges The Florida Legislature enacted attendance requirements for minors to maintain their driving privileges. The superintendent of each school district is responsible for enforcing school attendance requirements by reporting to the DHSMV all students between the ages of 14-18 who accumulate 15 unexcused absences in any 90 calendar day period, or who drops out of school. The DHSMV may not issue a driver's license or learner’s driver's license to such students, and shall suspend any previously issued driver's license, pursuant to Section 322.091, Florida Statutes. This program is operated under the Bureau of Family & Community Outreach. For additional information, contact Dr. Kimberly Davis by phone at 850-245-0551 or by e-mail at [e-mail] .
www.fldoe.org/family/dropoutp/strategies.asp

It can work if enforced.

[mmhmm]

I'm with ugonow on this one. We need to value those in the trades much higher than we do, rather than considering them of lesser value than college-educated individuals. If a young person doesn't excel in academics, that same person may do wonderfully well in one of the trades, but they need training.

[AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP]

I'm completely opposed to compulsory education. I think people ought to be left alone. I think government- at all levels- ought to simply STOP bothering people. We need a reset of government every level to set the government default switch to BUTT OUT.

[mmhmm]

The tendency of teens to "live in the now" is well known, lonewolf. Some are harder to convince that doing so may cost them more than they realize. While the removal of driving priviliges sometimes works when imposed by parents, I don't think it's going to do a lot of good if imposed by some outside influence. The kids will just drive anyway and you'll have a bigger problem on your hands.

There will always be those kids to whom you simply can't get through, no matter what you do. Some learn later and put their noses to the grindstone. Others never learn and end up languishing for life. It's a reality we've always dealt with, and probably always will.

[billisonboard]

May 18, 2011 7:56:18 GMT -5 cme1201 said:

It's something Florida has done since 1989. If you are under 18 and dropout of school, times can be hard.

...

It can work if enforced.

Define "work".

Florida posted its highest-ever high school graduation rate this year.

It's a milestone that should help schools across the state that, for the first time, will be graded in part on how many students earn diplomas.

The state graduation rate hit 79 percent in 2010, buoyed by strong improvements among black and Hispanic students, the Florida Department of Education announced today. articles.orlandosentinel.com/2010-11-18/news/os-fl-high-school-graduation-20101118_1_graduation-rate-diplomas-magnet-school

It may well keep kids showing up for school in Florida. But with a 21% failure to graduate rate, did it really matter.

[Deleted]

Should a school dropout have his license taken away?

To me it really depends on the kid. What motivates them also depends on the age.
Sorry but if they are over 18 then I would tell them it's school or something like that (I'm not going to help with college if there's no chance of them getting a degree either because the aren't interested or talented).

Kids younger than 18. Well I've always found that kids understand demonstrations. Hold them upside down over a toilet & flush it a few times (while lowering them) & explain that they are flushing their life away. If they don't "get it" then at least their hair will be easy to comb.

[cme1201]

Well Bills,

For me to define work I would need to look at a history of graduation rates. In 2003 Florida was graduating just over 57% of students which would be a 43% failure rate, in six years the non graduation rate has decreased by just over half 43% in 2003 vs 21% 2010.

There is no state that has a 100% Graduation rate, we have to find ways to get kids involved in school, make learning fun and make sure they are challanged.

Yes 21% choosing to let the school years pass while they fritter away there lives is there personal choice, but, what ever is being done is working. Slowly eating away at the dropouts year by year, but hey let's look at 1 year and make all of our facts based on that, Not on where we were vs where we are.

[billisonboard]

May 18, 2011 8:51:39 GMT -5 cme1201 said:

Well Bills,

For me to define work I would need to look at a history of graduation rates. In 2003 Florida was graduating just over 57% of students which would be a 43% failure rate, in six years the non graduation rate has decreased by just over half 43% in 2003 vs 21% 2010.

There is no state that has a 100% Graduation rate, we have to find ways to get kids involved in school, make learning fun and make sure they are challanged.

Yes 21% choosing to let the school years pass while they fritter away there lives is there personal choice, but, what ever is being done is working. Slowly eating away at the dropouts year by year, but hey let's look at 1 year and make all of our facts based on that, Not on where we were vs where we are.

Good point.

A further look into the numbers: "Crooms Academy of Information Technology boasted a 100 percent graduation rate".
croomsaoit.org/

[handyman2]

If it works by taking away driving privileges then use it. There is an up side to this if it works but a down side also. The downside is that teen will most likely end up driving anyway without a license and when caught ends up in the legal system.
Parents should also stress that you cannot even get a job at MC Donald's if past high school age without a high school diploma now a days.
I also agree that we need more technical training opportunities for high school students.

[cme1201]

A further look into the numbers: "Crooms Academy of Information Technology boasted a 100 percent graduation rate".
croomsaoit.org/

Several schools whether magnat or alternative schools boast graduation rates in the high 80's low 90's, the "publicly funded and intercity schools" are where you are finding the highest dropout rates, the question becomes why.

at Magnet or Alternative schools, most people come up with out of pocket expenses, showing the children that parents take education seriously, meaning, one is working hard to give you a better than average chance so most times the kids don't waste it. at public schools (I am not against public schools) the parents drop junior off come back and get him/her and never really have to worry about can I get the few hundreds (or thousands) need to get my child through this semester.

[burnsattornincan]

Hold them upside down over a toilet & flush it a few times (while lowering them) & explain that they are flushing their life away.

Sounds like a plan but you'd have to be a pretty strong mofo to hold a 17 year old obese gamer upside down over a toilet.

[wyouser]

oh my gosh...you infer one size fits all education might be flawed? Every single child cannot be turned into a rocket scientist? Some children might do better in vocational school? People might be individuals???Top down mandates might not work??? Spread the word..the sky is falling!!!

[❤ mollymouser ❤]

Does withholding driving privileges from under 18 high school dropouts encourage them to return to school or to obtain their GED?

[thyme4change]

The problem is that most drop-outs ended the educational process long, long before they actually leave school. I taught math for GED to a bunch of drop-outs and these guy didn't stop getting educated when they were 15 - they stopped in about 4th grade. I doubt any of them could read above a 6th grade level, and they didn't know basic stuff - like fractions. I was teaching them elementary stuff - not calculus and economics - like I learned in high school. A lot of drop-outs have learning disabilities that were not caught, or that no one dealt with. It doesn't mean the kids are dumb - it just means that they are so far behind, keeping them in school might not mean they learn anything. I mean - I'm pretty highly educated, but drop me in a college Jr level engineering class, and you know how much I would learn - ZERO. Without the basics behind me, you might as well be speaking russian.

If the kids are bright and dropping out because school is too easy, but they were actually participating through 8th grade, they could easily spend a couple days brushing up on the basics and then pass the GED. After that, they could use the community college system or some state universities to get to a level of education that pleases them. But this isn't the majority of drop-outs.

[wyouser]

[Bluerobin]

Some of the most successful people I know never finished school. Book learning just wasn't their thing. Every day was torture for them until they could quit. Different strokes and all that!

[AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP]

We need more choice and competition in the marketplace. This one-size-fits-all education from government isn't working.

We need less government, not more. And we need to face a fact that horrifies most people, and used to horrify me: Not everyone is fit for an education, and no matter how much we spend to force them to sit and be spoon fed information-- some kids are NEVER going to learn. Alternative schools, and accomodating different learning styles which would happen near instantaneously in a competitive free market, isn't a panacea, either. Some kids are going to grow up uneducated.

And then we have to face another fact, equally as horrifying to some, but remarkably calming and soothing to the sane and rational:

"Life is tough without an education / high school diploma" is nothing more than propaganda for a failing government-run education monopoly. To the extent it is true, it is a self-fulfilling prophecy. It's really only true if a person skips ONE PART of the whole "system"-- the education part. But many individuals have succeeded without a high school education by rejecting the WHOLE system-- altogether.

Life outside the mainstream can seem hard from the outside looking in, but maybe it's just right- and the best path for some people.

The education component is really only missing for people who buy in, or are forced into the whole rest of the government's cradle-to-grave system of control. What we really need to do is as I've said-- we need a MASSIVE RESET of government at EVERY LEVEL so that the default setting of government is LEAVE PEOPLE ALONE.

If you could start a business without a permission slip from anyone, for example-- there'd be plenty of work, plenty of jobs, and following government proscribed rules for working for a company that has to follow myriad government rules and regulations would not be necessary, and therefore wouldn't be as much of a hinderance.

I'm not knocking the idea of education-- I'm not even saying that it's not a great, fantastic, wonderful idea-- and you'll go farther if you can read and do math. But we just have got to get this giant, smothering, behemoth OFF of us. Or we're gonna suffocate and die.

[kent]

May 18, 2011 7:57:53 GMT -5 mmhmm said:

I'm with ugonow on this one. We need to value those in the trades much higher than we do, rather than considering them of lesser value than college-educated individuals. If a young person doesn't excel in academics, that same person may do wonderfully well in one of the trades, but they need training.

100% Agree.

[Bluerobin]

I really don't care if my mechanic has a degree, just if he can fix my car.

[Tennesseer]

I don't think too many parents would be happy after their kid drops out of school and cannot get a low paying job because he or she has no transportation.

The kid will be sitting around the house or wandering the streets-every parent's nightmare.

[kent]

May 18, 2011 10:55:29 GMT -5 Bluerobin said:

Some of the most successful people I know never finished school. Book learning just wasn't their thing. Every day was torture for them until they could quit. Different strokes and all that!

Some High School dropouts

Richard Branson... Billionaire British businessman.
George Carlin... Comedian.
Jim Carrey... Comedian and actor.
Tom Cruise... Actor
George Eastman... Founder of the Kodak company.
Albert Einstein... Mathematician.
Michael J. Fox... Actor.
George Gershwin... Composer
Wright brothers... Inventors of the airplane.

www.increasebrainpower.com/high-school-dropouts.html

More at:

abundanceunlimited.com/high-school-dropouts-are-more-successful/

[handyman2]

I wonder what Bill Gates would say about having to have a college degree to be successful? I spent one year in college and was bored to death. I am the classic example of my technical abilities being stronger than my class room focus. Not putting a college degree down but I probably made more money than many college grads over my life time. I realized where my talent lay and focused on that. To many college students make choices accoreding to what they percieve as paying the most money not what their real talent is and over the long hall pay for that mistake. If some how after elementary school we could find and focus on young adults talents they and we would be much better off. No telling what they could create. Many industrial revolution inventions were brought about by people who never finished the lower grades of school. I am not knocking a good education but the present system of one size fits all after grade school is lacking.

[Tennesseer]

May 18, 2011 11:39:08 GMT -5 @lonewolf said:

May 18, 2011 11:27:02 GMT -5 Tennesseer said:

I don't think too many parents would be happy after their kid drops out of school and cannot get a low paying job because he or she has no transportation.

The kid will be sitting around the house or wandering the streets-every parent's nightmare.

Most drop outs with low paying jobs can't even afford to own and maintain a car.

Most families have two or more cars.

[sesfw]

Engineers to design the roads are needed, so are the people driving the backhoes and handling shovels. Not everyone should go to higher academic education. Under the age of 21 the driving privilege should be taken away for a dropout, UNLESS they are learning a trade in a viable school/work place.

Too many kids drop out so they can smoke on the street corners. At age 18 they are legally adults and nothing can be done without their co-operation. Under 18, it's still parental rule, hopefully.

[Deleted]

My kids never dropped out, but they all worked and bought and paid for their own cars and insurance. IF they had ever dropped out they would have needed that car more than ever to work more hours, or go to trade school. No slackers allowed in my home. I say no, as long as they are square with the state driving laws let them keep their licenses. They won't last long if they make bad choices from there, any way. No job, no money, insurance lapses, cop sees burned out tail light, bye bye car, bye bye license. Kids need to take their knocks for bad choices or they will make them forever.

[kent]

"If you're looking to earn those big bucks, but don't have a college degree, here are a few fields to consider:"


msn.careerbuilder.com/Article/MSN-2598-Job-Info-and-Trends-Six-Figure-Jobs-Anyone-Can-Get/?SiteId=cbmnshp42598&sc_extcmp=JS_2598_home1>1=23000

[Deleted]

Hey, my ex was an 8th grade punk pothead dropout, but VERY smart. Started bagging groceries at a grocery store as a young teen. 20 years later, same grocery chain, district manager, 6 figure salary plus benefits... it can happen. A lot depends on if the parent allows the kid to lay around and do nothing. Not in MY house.

[❤ mollymouser ❤]

Wow. California's drop-out rate seems pretty high to me.

In 2008-09, 70.1 percent of public school students in California graduated from high school, up from 68.5 percent last year. The adjusted four-year derived dropout rate for the same school year is 21.5* percent, up from 18.9 percent last year.

When reviewed by subgroup statewide, the graduation and dropout rate data continue to highlight the achievement gap. The graduation rate among Hispanic students is 59 percent, a 4.9 percentage point increase since last year. Among African-American students the graduation rate is 59.6 percent, a 1.4 percentage point increase.

The estimated dropout rate among Hispanics is at 26.9 percent and among African-Americans it is 36.9 percent. The percentages for both subgroups are up by approximately 3 percentage points, mirroring the percentage increase in the statewide results.

source: www.cde.ca.gov/nr/ne/yr10/yr10rel140.asp

[Tennesseer]

May 18, 2011 12:15:20 GMT -5 @lonewolf said:

May 18, 2011 11:52:47 GMT -5 Tennesseer said:

Most families have two or more cars.

I take it you plan on supporting your kids forever.

I wore 'protection'.