Israel's Palestinian Arab Spring

[lakhota]

The converging of thousands of Palestinians on Israel’s borders is a sign that they have lost faith in American promises—and that if Israel and the U.S. don't work toward a Palestinian state near 1967 lines, others will seize the initiative in shaping the Middle East, writes Peter Beinart.

Why did thousands of Palestinians yesterday converge upon Israel’s borders? Partly because Syria’s war-criminal leader, Bashar al-Assad, and his ally, Hezbollah, wanted them to. But there’s more to it than that. Palestinians also marched from Jordan and Egypt, whose governments did their best to stop the protests. In fact, they marched from every corner of the Palestinian world, in a tech-savvy, coordinated campaign. What hit Israel yesterday was the Palestinian version of the Arab spring.

Something fundamental has changed. I grew up believing that we—Americans and Jews—were the shapers of history in the Middle East. We created reality; others watched, baffled, paralyzed, afraid. In 1989, Americans gloated as the Soviet Union, our former rival for Middle Eastern supremacy, retreated ignominiously from the region. When Saddam Hussein tried to challenge us from within, we thrashed him in the Gulf War. Throughout the 1990s, we sent our economists, law professors and investment bankers to try to teach the Arabs globalization, which back then meant copying us. In a thousand ways, sometimes gently, sometimes brutally, we sent the message: We make the rules; you play by them.

For Jews, this sense of being history’s masters was even more intoxicating. For millennia, we had been acted upon. Mere decades earlier, American Jews had watched, trembling and inarticulate, as European Jews were destroyed. But it was that very impotence that made possible the triumph of Zionism, a movement aimed at snatching history’s reins from gentiles, and perhaps even God. Beginning in the early 20th century, Zionists created facts on the ground. Sometimes the great powers applauded; sometimes they condemned, but acre by acre, Jews seized control of their fate. As David Ben-Gurion liked to say, “Our future does not depend on what gentiles say but on what Jews do.” The Arabs reacted with fury, occasional violence, and in Palestine, a national movement of their own. But they could rarely compete, either politically or militarily. We went from strength to strength; they never missed an opportunity to miss an opportunity.

That world is gone. America and Israel are no longer driving history in the Middle East; for the first time in a long time, Arabs are. In Tahrir Square, Egypt’s young made a revolution. President Obama bowed to reality and helped show Hosni Mubarak the door; Benjamin Netanyahu stood athwart history, impotently yelling stop. Now Egypt’s leaders are doing its people’s will, bringing Hamas and Fatah together in preparation for elections. Hamas and Fatah are complying because they fear their own Tahrir Square. They sense that in Palestine too, a populist uprising stirs; that’s part of what yesterday’s marches were about. For American and Israeli leaders accustomed to Palestinian autocrats and Palestinian terrorists, this is something new. Netanyahu and his American backers are demanding that Obama rewind the clock, but he can’t. The Palestinians no longer listen to functionaries like George Mitchell. They have lost faith in American promises, and they no longer fear American threats. Instead, they are putting aside their internal divisions and creating facts on the ground.

When Israelis look at Salam Fayyad, who Mahmoud Abbas reportedly wants to be prime minister of the united Palestinian government, they see a man with all the qualities old-fashioned Zionists revere. He does not bluster; he builds his state. And he does so based on a ruthlessly unsentimental view of the world. While Netanyahu and the gerontocrats of the American Jewish establishment yearn for a return to the days of George W. Bush, Fayyad has developed a strategy for the post-American age. He knows that if Netanyahu continues to entrench the occupation and Palestinian leaders keep nonviolently demanding a state near the Green Line, it won’t ultimately matter what Obama does. The more America sticks by Netanyahu, the less relevant America will become. Other powers will begin taking matters into their own hands, and their strategies for achieving a two-state solution will have none of the tenderness of Dennis Ross. Just last week, German and French companies pulled out of railway projects in the West Bank.

The more America sticks by Netanyahu, the less relevant America will become.

The Palestinians could still blow it. They could return to widespread terrorism; yesterday’s protests, if they continue, could force Abbas to take a harder line on refugee return, thus making it easier for Netanyahu to say no. But Netanyahu would be foolish to bet on that. From Egypt to Turkey to Palestine, Israel now faces something it hasn’t faced before: adversaries at home in a democratic age. This is not a movement that tear gas can stop.

The Palestinians are taking control of their destiny because Israel has not. Zionism, which at its best is the purposeful, ethical effort to make Jews safe in the land of Israel, has become—in this government—a mindless land grab, that threatens Jewish safety and Jewish ethics alike. Once upon a time, when the Arabs were hapless and America was omnipotent, Israel could get away with that. Not anymore. If Barack Obama cannot get Benjamin Netanyahu to endorse—and work toward—a Palestinian state near 1967 lines, events will pass them both by. Others will take the initiative; in the Middle East, the U.S. and Israel will increasingly find their destinies in other nation’s hands. For those of us raised to believe that Americanism and Zionism were can-do faiths, it is harder to imagine any crueler irony than that.

www.thedailybeast.com/blogs-and-stories/2011-05-16/israels-palestinian-arab-spring-jews-and-americans-losing-ability-to-shape-mideast/?cid=hp:mainpromo4

NOTE: The author of this article, Peter Beinart, is Jewish.

[Value Buy]

I think we all know this is not 100% about the Palistinians and Israel.
Syria and Iran are also trying to steer their people away from the political war that is going on inside their countries, by reminding everyone Israel is the bogeyman, so the political status quo can continue on.

[Deleted]

2nd Israel thread on the front page? Lots of posts there, Lak.

[lakhota]

May 16, 2011 19:00:36 GMT -5 @krickitt said:

2nd Israel thread on the front page? Lots of posts there, Lak.

What's your point? There are currently 7 threads on front page containing "Obama". My thread makes 2 on front page containing "Israel". Plus, my thread is about the rapidly changing evolution/revolution in Israeli/Palestinian relationship.

[Deleted]

Yeah, Lak. Just like the other thread. Whatever.

[deziloooooo]

"http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Salam_Fayyad"

The only point I question of the authors above article is

"who Mahmoud Abbas reportedly wants to be prime minister of the united Palestinian government"

Is that I have read it is the exact opposite. Not because of competence, it is because of Fayyads competence and popularity that is the problem.
Abbas supporters which means Abbas himself feel he is overshadowing Abbas in popularity , is very popular with the populace and definitely popular and trusted by European Countries, and I believe with US.

Hamas has their own PM, who knows he won't continue in the new set up, Hamas, Fatah togetherness, and feel it would be a slap in the face to have Fayyad as PM , also are not happy with him because of his insistence of Hamas must recognize Israel and swear off violence against them, and most important is to westernized , thus both want a change.

The thing is, because of the good feelings of the European , US, only one they trust to see the aid is not wasted, stolen, usurped as the old PLO di with it and their former dead leader, both parties, Abbas and Hamas might have to go along with him as the PM.

The rest of the article is interesting, possible has a lot of truth to it.

Supposedly Obama is going to unveil his idea of a peace plan in August and this week Natalya addresses Congress, according to a report Jerusalem Post more of the same, nothing new.

Is Israel going to fold and give up the game? Doubt it. If a peace was worked out with the Palestinians would then all problems go away, peace in our time, as Chamberlin claimed back in the day, trust no problem. Doubt it.

After 30 years , Egypt , while not at war again with Israel, a ally, friendly county toward them, doesn't seem that way and now suggesting to going back to the over seer, protector of Gaza, against Israel, kep from attacking Hamas and the weapons in Gaza, as it was eons ago, it means the Israeli's and Egyptians could be faced off again, this time, both parties using basically the same weapons.

Same with a possible peace between Israel and the Palestinians.

As Natanyahu said in a speech yesterday/today, not sure exactly when, to the Knesset, besides Hamas recognizing Israel as a Jewish State, they, Palestinians would have to swear off any future designs on the lands of Israel, future acquisition, which makes sense to me, why would one make peace if just until the next time, as well as no return of Palestinians to Israel, even symbolic .{That was all it was to be if any, but now he said NONE} and actually, to many Arabs there now, it's a fact, no way were they, Palestinians going to be allowed to return. Also, Jeruselum remains totally Israeli. Some of those things might be able to be worked on but in Natanyahu's speech, I see little that is new.

This is complicated, if it wasn't it would have been satisfied , done and over already, and if this "Arab Spring " of young people is set on the removal of Israel as a Jewish State, which I am believing is the case, or a Palestinian State as the beginning and then the whittling away of Israels defenses till as I believe they feel will happen, it disappears as a Jewish State, we are in for along period of unrest, no matter who is in the Israeli PM position. IMHO.

[lakhota]

There are two sides to the Israeli/Palestinian conflict. One side is powerful and one side is powerless. Strong winds of change are blowing in the Middle East.

[deziloooooo]

"One side is powerful and one side is powerless" For now I'll take it the way it is....as much as you might like to see them go away, they are not going away.

[lakhota]

World opinion is changing, and world opinion will shape the outcome. I foresee a day when the U.S. will not arbitrarily veto U.N. resolutions against Israel.

[Value Buy]

May 16, 2011 19:56:31 GMT -5 @lakhota said:

World opinion is changing, and world opinion will shape the outcome. I foresee a day when the U.S. will not arbitrarily veto U.N. resolutions against Israel.

Yes, as soon as Obama is re-elected, he can name a new person representing the US in the UN and do just that.

[deziloooooo]

May 16, 2011 19:56:31 GMT -5 @lakhota said:

World opinion is changing, and world opinion will shape the outcome. I foresee a day when the U.S. will not arbitrarily veto U.N. resolutions against Israel.

Possible , but if the don't feel safe and secure they will do what they have to do to stay that way..however, better , they settle it..Palestinians , all parties, swear off future hopes of taking over the State of Israel, recognizing their right to exist as a Jewish State, a piece of Jerusalem for their capital, secure borders, spend their substantial energies of making their new State as modern and successful as they can, and the Israeli's too, doing the same, and if invited and welcome I would expect innovations and cooperation between entrepreneurs working together, and all Arab nations making peace with the Israelis...utopia.

[ed1066]

Good news for liberals, anything bad for the Jews...

[lakhota]

Yes, as soon as Obama is re-elected, he can name a new person representing the US in the UN and do just that.

I don't expect any such changes from "Present" Obama during this term or the next. Privately, he may wish for change in this matter, but he doesn't have the courage to publicly do anything about it. In fact, his 2012 budget increases aid to Israel by $75 million ($75,000,000), bringing the yearly total to $3.075 billion ($3,075,000,000).

[deziloooooo]

Your to pessamistk, though it is going into the election period..and whetehr w like it or not, politics does play a big part of what is proposed.

With he new realities of the Middle East, Palastinians togetherness, Egypt, blockade of gaza going away, possible something new in August. Have to see.

[lakhota]

May 16, 2011 20:23:13 GMT -5 deziloooooo said:

Your to pessamistk, though it is going into the election period..and whetehr w like it or not, politics does play a big part of what is proposed.

With he new realities of the Middle East, Palastinians togetherness, Egypt, blockade of gaza going away, possible something new in August. Have to see.

Possibly, but I don't foresee anything substantial from Obama this term - especially until after the 2012 election is over - if he wins. Then maybe, just maybe, he might find some real courage to deal responsibly with this conflict.

[ed1066]

May 16, 2011 21:16:44 GMT -5 @lakhota said:

May 16, 2011 20:23:13 GMT -5 deziloooooo said:

Your to pessamistk, though it is going into the election period..and whetehr w like it or not, politics does play a big part of what is proposed.

With he new realities of the Middle East, Palastinians togetherness, Egypt, blockade of gaza going away, possible something new in August. Have to see.

Possibly, but I don't foresee anything substantial from Obama this term - especially until after the 2012 election is over - if he wins. Then maybe, just maybe, he might find some real courage to deal responsibly with this conflict.

I had heard rumors that Obama isn't anti-Semitic enough for the hard left. Seems it's true...

[lakhota]

Restoring Courage? Glenn Beck Announces Plans For An August Rally In Jerusalem

Well, it looks like Glenn Beck wasn’t just checking out the sights in Israel last week, he was making plans. Beck had promised a “big announcement” on his radio show this morning and he certainly did not disappoint. This August, around a year after he took to the steps of the Lincoln Memorial to “restore honor,” Glenn Beck will be “restoring courage” in Jerusalem! Hmmm…something tells us The Daily Show won’t be holding a counter rally this time…
For the past few months, Beck has made the plight of Israel into one of the centerpieces of his show, discussing it for at least a few minutes every day. It’d be interesting to know just how long he had this rally in the works. It was at least enough time to get a poster designed and up on GlennBeck.com. The poster is a play off the now iconic image of the Lincoln Memorial used for last year’s rally with Moses replacing Honest Abe. The rally doesn’t seem to have an exact date set yet, but it does appear to be planned for August.

Here’s a quote from today’s radio show:

“I invite you to join me in Israel this summer to stand together and show the world what living a life of faith and honor really means. I invite you to join me in my quest to Restore Courage.”

Man, all the critics who thought Beck was being egotistical in speaking where Martin Luther King, Jr. spoke are going to have an absolute field day when they find out he’s going for the birthplace of Jesus Christ!

www.mediaite.com/tv/glenn-beck-announces-plan-to-hold-a-rally-in-jerusalem-this-august/

[lakhota]

"God is involved in man's affairs, but so is the force of darkness," Beck continued ominously. "I believe I've been asked to stand in Jerusalem. Many in the history of man have had the opportunity to stand with the Jewish people...and they have failed." He asked listeners to "stand with me, in Jerusalem" in August.

Beck candidly admitted that he didn't know how many people would show up, or how much the event would cost. But he called the rally a "life altering event" and warned that the "very gates of hell" would fight his attempts to hold the rally.

www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/05/16/glenn-beck-restoring-courage-jerusalem_n_862403.html

[lakhota]

Man, all the critics who thought Beck was being egotistical in speaking where Martin Luther King, Jr. spoke are going to have an absolute field day when they find out he’s going for the birthplace of Jesus Christ!

So, Beck has evolved from a civil rights leader to the Messiah. It was inevitable...

[deziloooooo]

May 16, 2011 22:05:05 GMT -5 @lakhota said:

Man, all the critics who thought Beck was being egotistical in speaking where Martin Luther King, Jr. spoke are going to have an absolute field day when they find out he’s going for the birthplace of Jesus Christ!

So, Beck has evolved from a civil rights leader to the Messiah. It was inevitable...

The second coming?

[ungenteel]

<<The Palestinians could still blow it.>>

They will definitely blow it if Hamas continues to deny Israels right to exist

[ed1066]

May 16, 2011 22:35:20 GMT -5 ungenteel said:

<<The Palestinians could still blow it.>>

They will definitely blow it if Hamas continues to deny Israels right to exist

You might have to explain that in more detail to the other liberals...most of them have never heard that...

[lakhota]

May 16, 2011 22:35:20 GMT -5 ungenteel said:

<<The Palestinians could still blow it.>>

They will definitely blow it if Hamas continues to deny Israels right to exist

I agree.

Food for thought: israelipalestinian.procon.org/view.answers.php?questionID=339

[hello fromWarsaw]

They would give that up if Israel would EVER give up ANYTHING! ;D Time to buy them BOTH off- only thing that ever worked...and it's a good deal- couple billion a year each should do it...

[deziloooooo]

May 16, 2011 22:39:21 GMT -5 @lakhota said:

May 16, 2011 22:35:20 GMT -5 ungenteel said:

<<The Palestinians could still blow it.>>

They will definitely blow it if Hamas continues to deny Israels right to exist

I agree.

Food for thought: israelipalestinian.procon.org/view.answers.php?questionID=339

This is a very interesting link, I put it on my desk top, read some, lots in there , different aspects, can't study all tonight but from what I read, pro./con some other ideas , very interesting...manana and later..time for zzzz's now.

[lakhota]

Israel: No Peace in Sight

Netanyahu’s government has greeted Palestinians’ Arab Spring protests with bullets. Leslie H. Gelb on the dangers of an Israeli overreaction.

The Arab Spring has come crashing onto Israel’s doorstep. It was bound to happen. Eventually, Palestinians unhappy with their lot would take inspiration from their rebelling Arab brethren throughout the region and turn against Israel, their nemesis. Equally inevitable, Israel is responding, fearfully, with bullets. Arab dictators in Syria, Yemen, Bahrain and elsewhere can get away with force against their protesters. Those dictators can even keep killing until their rebels’ voices are silenced. But for a true democracy like Israel, a country all too familiar with history’s tragedies, shooting unarmed people never sits well and cannot be the answer.

More: www.thedailybeast.com/blogs-and-stories/2011-05-16/israels-dilemma-in-policing-the-palestinian-border-protests/?cid=hp:mainpromo3

[ed1066]

May 17, 2011 18:55:58 GMT -5 @lakhota said:

Israel: No Peace in Sight

Netanyahu’s government has greeted Palestinians’ Arab Spring protests with bullets. Leslie H. Gelb on the dangers of an Israeli overreaction.

The Arab Spring has come crashing onto Israel’s doorstep. It was bound to happen. Eventually, Palestinians unhappy with their lot would take inspiration from their rebelling Arab brethren throughout the region and turn against Israel, their nemesis. Equally inevitable, Israel is responding, fearfully, with bullets. Arab dictators in Syria, Yemen, Bahrain and elsewhere can get away with force against their protesters. Those dictators can even keep killing until their rebels’ voices are silenced. But for a true democracy like Israel, a country all too familiar with history’s tragedies, shooting unarmed people never sits well and cannot be the answer.

More: www.thedailybeast.com/blogs-and-stories/2011-05-16/israels-dilemma-in-policing-the-palestinian-border-protests/?cid=hp:mainpromo3

Yawn...

[ungenteel]

<<The Arab Spring has come crashing onto Israel’s doorstep. It was bound to happen. Eventually, Palestinians unhappy with their lot would take inspiration from their rebelling Arab brethren throughout the region and turn against Israel, their nemesis>>

Lakhota ... I'm a lib and I abhor that Israel is currently controlled by their right wing ... but one more time .. as long as Hamas denies Israel's right to exist ... there will be no Palestinian state ... only fools would think otherwise ... please don't throw any web sites at me ... no exercise in "would be" logic will change the fact that no Palestinian state could exist that denied Israel's right to exist

[lakhota]

Lakhota ... I'm a lib and I abhor that Israel is currently controlled by their right wing ... but one more time .. as long as Hamas denies Israel's right to exist ... there will be no Palestinian state ... only fools would think otherwise ... please don't throw any web sites at me ... no exercise in "would be" logic will change the fact that no Palestinian state could exist that denied Israel's right to exist

If you say so...

[lakhota]

Is Israel at a Strategic Dead End as Palestinian "Arab Spring" Arrives?

The Palestinian "Arab Spring" is arriving and Israel has no political strategy to deal with it. Instead, Israel used the only weapon in its current arsenal - brute force.

More: www.alternet.org/world/150973/is_israel_at_a_strategic_dead_end_as_palestinian_%22arab_spring%22_arrives/?page=entire