1 in 3 Americans to Lose Their Healthcare w/ Obama

[AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP]

May 13, 2011 21:36:18 GMT -5 formerexpat said:

The new law does nothing to fix the issues in the industry but does drive up costs. The Dems will use the increase in costs to further place its grasp on more of the market [they're already involved in over 50%].

The good news for the top 15% is that we'll be okay because we'll have buy up plans that cover us for more. The rest of the people, well - you're kind of screwed.

Do you remember how long ago it was that I posted on YM that we're headed for a two tiered system where people with money will get the care they want / can afford, and everyone else will stand in a Soviet-style bread line waiting for care that doesn't exist.

[EVT1]

Some people here already stand in bread lines for health care- surely you have heard of remote area medical- which has to freaking operate in the richest country on Earth?

It's funny- all of the other modern countries are able to provide health care for all its citizens for less than we spend now and don't have all of the doom and gloom you predict for us. Could it be you have no clue what you are talking about? Or is it the idea that you may pay in more than you get out that bothers you?

Update- Health insurers posting record profits yet again:

www.msnbc.msn.com/id/43031343/ns/business-consumer_news

"The nation’s major health insurers are barreling into a third year of record profits, enriched in recent months by a lingering recessionary mind-set among Americans who are postponing or forgoing medical care.

The UnitedHealth Group, one of the largest commercial insurers, told analysts that so far this year, insured hospital stays actually decreased in some instances. In reporting its earnings last week, Cigna, another insurer, talked about the “low level” of medical use.

Yet the companies continue to press for higher premiums, even though their reserve coffers are flush with profits and shareholders have been rewarded with new dividends. "

Just more BS fearmongering- we are going to get to single payer one way or another- private insurance or Medicare will force the issue- we will see who down the road.

[Deleted]

1 in 3 Americans to Lose Their Healthcare w/ Obama

Thirty years ago I would have looked at the above & say "No Way". But looking back just about every liberal policy that has come down the pike to help the poor has in fact hurt them. Liberals won't (or can't) see that or admit it but it's true. In fact they now say that liberal policies that are failures were from the Republicans (changing history, even when it's documented) which on no plain of reality makes sense when they also say that Republican's are against the poor & (of course) baby killers. Seems to me that if I wanted to truly hurt the poor I would best do that by becoming a democrat.

[formerexpat]

Do you remember how long ago it was that I posted on YM that we're headed for a two tiered system where people with money will get the care they want / can afford, and everyone else will stand in a Soviet-style bread line waiting for care that doesn't exist.

I'm not sure when it was but I assure you that I was one of the people nodding their head vigorously as I was living that system in the UK. Fortunately, we were one of the 15% that have private insurance and didn't need to go through the "gatekeepers", as they're called in the UK. The entire country operates as though everyone has the worst HMO you could get. You go to the GP over and over and over again and then finally get to see a specialist. You just hope that your condition isn't one that severely hampers your standard of living.

Any system of meaningful size that's a UHC ends up failing because they simply deny services to contain costs. Our own government created the HMO mess for this same reason, and in their plan to move our country to a single payer system.

I was thinking the other day though, that maybe I am for a single payer system. Not because I believe it increases the quality of care for citizens overall but because it's could be absolutely necessary for the government to get out from under the unfunded liabilities they have. An easy solution to those unfunded liabilities is denying and delaying care.

I'm one of those fortunate 15% so maybe I just say screw it, bring the UHC because I'll be perfectly fine while people are being denied their hip and knee replacements, cataract surgeries, etc, quickly deteriorating the lifestyle of the older population.

[formerexpat]

Thirty years ago I would have looked at the above & say "No Way". But looking back just about every liberal policy that has come down the pike to help the poor has in fact hurt them. Liberals won't (or can't) see that or admit it but it's true.

Sometimes you have to wonder whether they [the liberal politicans that is, I do believe there are liberals that have ivory tower concepts not rooted in reality] want to help the poor, or ensure they have an enslaved and dependent voting base so they can maintain their power.

[Deleted]

Thirty years ago I would have looked at the above & say "No Way". But looking back just about every liberal policy that has come down the pike to help the poor has in fact hurt them. Liberals won't (or can't) see that or admit it but it's true.

Sometimes you have to wonder whether they [the liberal politicans that is, I do believe there are liberals that have ivory tower concepts not rooted in reality] want to help the poor, or ensure they have an enslaved and dependent voting base so they can maintain their power.

Formerexpat I hope that isn't the reason but it just doesn't seem logical to me that they can look at the failures of this type system around the world & not understand that they are fighting for a system that doesn't work. I also find it strange that they don't understand that to have a system like this in place our form of government has to fundamentally change because of costs. A free market type government can't support something like this.

What I believe (& I hope that I'm right) is that they just don't bother or can't truly see the cost's & end results of their programs. Honestly I hope that is the reason for their agenda because anything else would really disappoint me in these Americans. I too believe that many of them just aren't based (at least large scale) in reality.

[Deleted]

Oh & I was stationed in the UK for 3 years & in Holland for 4.5 years & saw the same thing you did. Holland's system was a little better but that's because (it seemed to me) that the government got a piece of just about every transaction in the country. Gas was more than double there, housing was EXPENSIVE (for what you got), food was expensive, & to top it off everybody (not just the wealthy) was taxed out the ass. As I remember it VAT (their sales tax) in the U.K was something like 18%.

[hello fromWarsaw]

Just more parrotting of Pub fear mongering, total BS. What we will get is the end of obscene profiteering from KILLING people, getting people off ALSO ridiculously expensive and cruel ER care, and in the end more GPs and doctors who are more interested in helping people rather than getting rich...
Over 80% of people love universal care everywhere they have it.. This is the death throes of rich bastids, the bought off,and the misled. If you think you're getting the truth from insurers, doctor's groups, and bought off pubs, you're quite mad...

[hello fromWarsaw]

We don't think you want to kill people. We think you are misled and have blinkers on...The pub mythology of we're # 1 and all is well is a disaster for everyone but the rich...

[hello fromWarsaw]

#37- The 2nd part of your post has nothing to do with Obamacare or their NHC. The UK's system suffers because the Tories (UK's pubs) keep screwing with it. Same way their austerity program has ruined the UK's recovery...

[EVT1]

'Failures of this type system around the world'

OURS IS THE FAILURE

Please someone point out all of these failed single payer systems when they consistently outrank ours in quality and cost. Sure, you can't please everyone in a country but ask a few Canadians, or French, or ...... they wouldn't have our system.

[Deleted]

www.nytimes.com/2011/05/15/us/politics/15address.html?_r=2&hp
HHS approves 200 more new healthcare reform waivers
By Julian Pecquet - 05/13/11 04:52 PM ET
The Obama administration approved 204 new waivers to Democrats' healthcare reform law over the past month, bringing the total to 1,372.

The waivers are temporary and only apply to one provision of the law, which requires health plans to offer at least $750,000 worth of annual medical benefits before leaving patients to fend for themselves. Still, Republicans have assailed the waivers as a sign of both favoritism and of major problems with the law.

"The fact that over 1,000 waivers have been granted is a tacit admission that the healthcare law is fundamentally flawed," Energy and Commerce Chairman Fred Upton (R-Mich.) said in March. Upton is one of three House committee chairmen who has used new oversight powers to investigate the annual limit waivers.
Administration officials say the law allows the Health and Human Services Department to grant the waivers to avoid disrupting the insurance market before the law overhauls the insurance system in 2014. They say the waivers are granted through a transparent process.

[Deleted]

I wonder if all these businesses are getting waivers because Zombiecare is so awesome??

[txbo]

May 13, 2011 18:47:48 GMT -5 AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP said:

May 13, 2011 14:51:20 GMT -5 @krickitt said:

Correct, Paul. Which will lead to Zombiecare.

I guess we have to stick to landlording. We can't possibly know how to read, and form opinions on anything else.



Whatevs. Time for a beer.

This possibly the most accurate thing you ever posted.