Top 10 pros and cons of Obamacare

[billisonboard]

I would love to lose the lousy coverage from my employer for a better plan.

[deziloooooo]

There is both con and pro there..just opinions of different folk.
I believe it, Obamas plan, is trying to set minimum standards for all health care unlike as in now differences depending of what plan one is under. I don't know if that is good or not..a minimum standard..

[verrip1]

Jan 1, 2011 20:08:52 GMT -5 billisonboard said:

I would love to lose the lousy coverage from my employer for a better plan.

It's like the knight said in the Indiana Jones movie: "He chose ........ badly".

[Deleted]

Con: it does not do enough to address increasing costs, it does not include paying doctors for end of life planning appointments, it still allows insurance companies too much power (no public option)...

Pros: it does offer populations who have a hard time getting insurance the ability to come onto a group plan (in 2013)... it does start to work towards things like focusing on general care over specialists, it allows for certain 'extension' situations which can help people to get insurance outside of employment, which is a step in the right direction, although generally not enough...

[deziloooooo]

"does not include paying doctors for end of life planning "...
I beliece it would be covered..a doctors visit..during the visit it is explained as opat of the explanation of what is happening with the patient, the prognosis, the different treatment options. I had a lecture on the effects and why to stop my smoking, went into detail..there was a charge, i check my bills even though they are covered ..it was a bit over a $100. I am sure the same thing would be done there. Part of the treatment of.

[ugonow]

CON: "According to experts, more than 87 million American could lose access to their current health care plan under the new law. Workers at a majority of the nation’s employers – including as many as four out of every five small businesses – would lose their current coverage, thus providing further evidence that ObamaCare is doing exactly the opposite of what Democrats promised it would do."

Not only that,but no one in this country should have to plead for their lives in front of death panels. Not to worry.The tea party and gop are already joing forces with the industry to beat this so called reform down.

[chiver78]

Jan 2, 2011 9:07:57 GMT -5 ugonow said:

Not only that,but no one in this country should have to plead for their lives in front of death panels. Not to worry.The tea party and gop are already joing forces with the industry to beat this so called reform down.

can I ask how "pleading for their lives in front of death panels" is any different from the people that currently plead for coverage by their insurance companies for life-threatening illnesses now?

[ugonow]

I couldn't answer that,I don't have insurance and Obama can't make me buy it either.

[chiver78]

well, if you can't answer that because you don't have insurance, perhaps you shouldn't bash what you know nothing about. just saying....

[handyman2]

There are some judges having issues with Obamacare. here they are by page by page number.
1-page 50 section 152-The bill will provide insurance to all non-us citizens if they are here even illegally
2-page 58-59-The government will have real-time access to an individuals bank account and will have athority to make electronic transfers from those accounts.
3-page65-section164-The plan will be subsidized by the government for all union members, union retirees and all community orginizations such as ACORN.
4-page-203- lines 14, 15-The tax imposed under this section will not be treated as a tax. HUH
5-page-241 and 253- Doctors will be paid the same regardless of their specialty and the government will set the fee.
6-page-272-section 1145-Cancer hospitals will ration care according to age.
7-page425-line4-12- The government will mandate advance care planning consultations. Those on SS will be required to attend a END-OF-LIFE planning seminar every 5 years.
8-page 429-line13-25- the government will specify which doctors can issue an end of life order.
9-This bill does not apply to members of Congress.
Some premoting this bill you just might want to take time to read it. These are just a few of the issues raised by judges and others. The idea that the government is not taking over healthcare I find hard to accept.

[Deleted]

Can i have a source for that Handyman? I'd like to read more. Thanks...

[handyman2]

OPED: what I pointed out was written by a judge in Texas. You can pull up the bill HB3200 on the net. A lot of reading. The points I posted list the page and section if you wish to review them.

[ungenteel]

aside from the OP ... what kind of fool/clown would want to put their health care in the hands of private enterprise? Please don't call me a socialist or communist ... I've worked in private enterprise all my life .. I understand and support private enterprise .. for the appropriate endeavors

The whole raison d'etre of private enterprise is to maximize cash inflows and minimize cash outflows .. anything less would be counter to the interests of their stockholders .. what kind of fool wants their health care decisions to be predicated on that logic???

[workpublic]

My COBRA Payment went from $191 in 2010 to $555 in 2011. when do we see the pros again?

[floridayankee]

Jan 2, 2011 9:38:48 GMT -5 chiver78 said:

Jan 2, 2011 9:07:57 GMT -5 ugonow said:

Not only that,but no one in this country should have to plead for their lives in front of death panels. Not to worry.The tea party and gop are already joing forces with the industry to beat this so called reform down.

can I ask how "pleading for their lives in front of death panels" is any different from the people that currently plead for coverage by their insurance companies for life-threatening illnesses now?

That's easy....."pleading for their lives in front of death panels" is political hype and spin from the repubs and "pleading for coverage by their insurance companies for life-threatening illnesses" is political hype and spin from the dems.

What do I win?

[floridayankee]

Jan 2, 2011 23:06:39 GMT -5 ungenteel said:

aside from the OP ... what kind of fool/clown would want to put their health care in the hands of private enterprise?

With private businesses, I have choice of which company/Dr gets my business. So, the real question is, what kind of fool would put their health care in the hands of one monopolistic government and give up the free choice of who gets their business?

The whole raison d'etre of private enterprise is to maximize cash inflows and minimize cash outflows .. anything less would be counter to the interests of their stockholders .. what kind of fool wants their health care decisions to be predicated on that logic???

You tell only part of the story. There is another party a private business is interested in....customers. It's a constant balancing act to keep them both happy. The business that does not take care of both their shareholders and their customers will watch them take their business elsewhere.

When the government is the sole provider, there is no competition....one party, one provider....sorry for your luck if you don't like it.

[rockon]

For me the immediate con is that the new regulations eliminate all affordable major medical plans that we have bought for many years. These plans are affordable because they have life time caps and because they do not cover pre existing conditions. These plans were affordable for us and they worked the way insurance is intended to work. We have to pay for our normal health costs but are covered in the event of a major medical or unmanageable cost.
The second major con is that they expect the cost to the taxpayer to be around a trillion dollars. Now I don't know about you but if I fix something that is viewed as too expensive then it should not cost more it should cost less.

[wyouser]

it was reported somewhere on msn a while back the around 5 million college students would lose their plans as the new system phases in because the plans arent broad enough..but they were cheap. So the dilemma...these students could pay for limited coverage for health but not for full major medical plans. Their plans go away now but the alternative stuff doesnt phase in until 2014. So they get..nothing....in the interem??

[chiver78]

Jan 4, 2011 13:57:00 GMT -5 floridayankee said:

Jan 2, 2011 9:38:48 GMT -5 chiver78 said:

can I ask how "pleading for their lives in front of death panels" is any different from the people that currently plead for coverage by their insurance companies for life-threatening illnesses now?

That's easy....."pleading for their lives in front of death panels" is political hype and spin from the repubs and "pleading for coverage by their insurance companies for life-threatening illnesses" is political hype and spin from the dems.

What do I win?

you win another question. I agree that it's spin, but the latter is already happening.....and Republicans don't want to admit it. to do so would admit that the system is broken and needs to be fixed. do you disagree?

[verrip1]

Jan 2, 2011 23:06:39 GMT -5 ungenteel said:

aside from the OP ... what kind of fool/clown would want to put their health care in the hands of private enterprise? Please don't call me a socialist or communist ... I've worked in private enterprise all my life .. I understand and support private enterprise .. for the appropriate endeavors

The whole raison d'etre of private enterprise is to maximize cash inflows and minimize cash outflows .. anything less would be counter to the interests of their stockholders .. what kind of fool wants their health care decisions to be predicated on that logic???

And you wish to have your healthcare decisions predicated on governmental bureaucrats who are motivated by their own sloth, their desire to pad the employment rolls of the monster government Jabba The Hut, and their design for personal power via the primacy of government over the individual.

Your position should frighten every American, and give them cause to arm themselves.

[stayput]

Jan 1, 2011 20:06:40 GMT -5 Ratchets said:

Top ten pros and cons of Obamacare -

CON: "According to experts, more than 87 million American could lose access to their current health care plan under the new law. Workers at a majority of the nation’s employers – including as many as four out of every five small businesses – would lose their current coverage, thus providing further evidence that ObamaCare is doing exactly the opposite of what Democrats promised it would do."

I would say that's a big one LOL.

healthcarereform.procon.org/view.resource.php?resourceID=003725

Goes to show what I know. I was about to point out that Obama, his entire appointments, and most of the DNC, are Professional Con artists. I thought that's what your OP meant by "pro/con". ;D

[EVT1]

Jan 2, 2011 23:04:38 GMT -5 handyman2 said:

OPED: what I pointed out was written by a judge in Texas. You can pull up the bill HB3200 on the net. A lot of reading. The points I posted list the page and section if you wish to review them.

Better check snopes-that is some old bs that keeps popping up.

[ungenteel]

Medical decisions should be made by physicians and their patients .. not insurance companies who are watching the bottom line or gummint bureaucrats

righties ... one reason we have "Obamacare", as you like to call it ... is because insurance companies refused to cover pre-existing conditions .. private health care was too willing to say .. 'too bad .. go ahead and die . just not on my dime"

[verrip1]

Jan 4, 2011 23:36:08 GMT -5 ungenteel said:

Medical decisions should be made by physicians and their patients .. not insurance companies who are watching the bottom line or gummint bureaucrats

righties ... one reason we have "Obamacare", as you like to call it ... is because insurance companies refused to cover pre-existing conditions .. private health care was too willing to say .. 'too bad .. go ahead and die . just not on my dime"

That issue can be simply resolved without the need for 2300 pages of bureaucratic bullshit that not even a Democrat can understand.

Oh, yes, and continue to blame "Big Health Insurers" for all the country's ills, right after the "Filthy Rich", "Big Tobacco", and "Big Oil". Care to marginalize anybody else before you break out the pitchforks and torches? Guys like you unequivocally prove why we need a US Republic and not a Democracy.

[warsaw (banned)]

Incredible amount of BS fear mongering from thhe Pubs leads to all this ignorance...oh, physicins, patients, and family will make the decisions, and an end of life counsellor for twenty minutes and Pubs call it a death panel...remain calm, people...

[floridayankee]

Jan 4, 2011 23:36:08 GMT -5 ungenteel said:

righties ... one reason we have "Obamacare", as you like to call it ... is because insurance companies refused to cover pre-existing conditions .. private health care was too willing to say .. 'too bad .. go ahead and die . just not on my dime"

And, this piece of the bill is so important, they decided to wait until 2014 for it to kick in. I guess it's ok to suffer without coverage for pre-existing conditions until them.

[ugonow]

And you wish to have your healthcare decisions predicated on governmental bureaucrats who are motivated by their own sloth, their desire to pad the employment rolls of the monster government Jabba The Hut, and their design for personal power via the primacy of government over the individual.

Your position should frighten every American, and give them cause to arm themselves.

To be fair,this spin is not true and is used by both sides. The government nor insurance companies dictate what care you may recieve. They both dictate what they will pay for.There is a huge difference.You are free to seek any treatments you want if you are willing to spend your own money on it.

[jkapp]

Jan 2, 2011 23:06:39 GMT -5 ungenteel said:

aside from the OP ... what kind of fool/clown would want to put their health care in the hands of private enterprise? Please don't call me a socialist or communist ... I've worked in private enterprise all my life .. I understand and support private enterprise .. for the appropriate endeavors

The whole raison d'etre of private enterprise is to maximize cash inflows and minimize cash outflows .. anything less would be counter to the interests of their stockholders .. what kind of fool wants their health care decisions to be predicated on that logic???

the same kind of clown/fool who would want their health care in the hands of incompetent, uncaring government bureaucrats?

Government health care has shown us what they are all about: No oversight, no cost saving measures, no protections from abuse and fraud...

Medicare/Medicaid is causing more damage to the health industry than many other private industry problems - the money it loses to fraud and abuse far out weigh the profits of private insurance companies...why anyone would want everyone to be on that socialized trainwreck boggles the mind

[jkapp]

Jan 4, 2011 23:36:08 GMT -5 ungenteel said:

Medical decisions should be made by physicians and their patients .. not insurance companies who are watching the bottom line or gummint bureaucrats

righties ... one reason we have "Obamacare", as you like to call it ... is because insurance companies refused to cover pre-existing conditions .. private health care was too willing to say .. 'too bad .. go ahead and die . just not on my dime"

As opposed to a public option that would say: "too bad, you're going to have to die - we already spent the dime...and the quarter." ;D

[sanityjones]

Jan 4, 2011 23:36:08 GMT -5 ungenteel said:

righties ... one reason we have "Obamacare", as you like to call it ... is because insurance companies refused to cover pre-existing conditions .. private health care was too willing to say .. 'too bad .. go ahead and die . just not on my dime"

I hear ya. I rolled my new Humvee yesterday and did not have insurance on it; now I can't find an insurance company that will cover it so I can get it fixed. I wish the government would pass some laws that force auto insurance companies to cover preexisting conditions.