If She Won't Sign the Quicclaim Deed - Part 2

[NastyWoman]

Question for the lawyers out here: since ex has not signed the quitclaim what would happen if GG's DH met with an accident (knock on wood) and did not survive? Couldn't the ex than come and claim at least half of the house as hers? How expensive could this turn out to be for GG?

GG may your DH live for a long time to come, but you might want to ask him to consider this as well

[midjd]

May 13, 2011 22:32:26 GMT -5 NastyWoman said:

Question for the lawyers out here: since ex has not signed the quitclaim what would happen if GG's DH met with an accident (knock on wood) and did not survive? Couldn't the ex than come and claim at least half of the house as hers? How expensive could this turn out to be for GG?

GG may your DH live for a long time to come, but you might want to ask him to consider this as well

As long as both names are on the title/deed to the house, both parties have an equal claim to the home. Both parties also have equal liability. There may be a divorce decree that says GG's DH gets the house, but this doesn't mean squat until the quit-claim deed is signed.

[Gardening Grandma]

Questipn for midwesternjd - Why doesn't the divorce decree awarding the house to him "mean squat"?
Isn't it a court order?


Fwiw, I'm readonably sure that no quitclaim was ever signed for several reasons. One of them is a letter from the mortgage co dated in the 80's responding to his request to remove her name from the mortgage. The mortgage co said they needed a quitclaim.
Also, he (generally) is not a procrastinator. His issue here is that he does not want any contact with her. Ever. Period. If he had a quitclaim, he'd have filed it already.

I'm just realizing that it's been 40 years, not 30.

[Deleted]

May 14, 2011 4:33:57 GMT -5 @daphne87 said:

Many states don't check divorce decrees in doing titles, and if she appeared to have 100% title of the property, an innocent third party could buy the house from her and she could abscond (I love that word!) with the money, never to be heard from again....

Occasionally we get posts from people who ask what title insurance is and why they need it- this is a real-life example. Title insurance would cover someone who bougt the property from the Ex, unaware that she was supposed to have quit-claimed it to her ex-husband 40 years ago.

Good luck, GG. I hope you get this resolved.

[midjd]

Karma Daph, you explained it so well!

We run into this issue quite a bit when two parties divorce, and one is awarded the house but doesn't have the credit to re-fi in his or her own name, then stops (or can no longer afford) to pay the mortgage. As long as it is still in both names, creditors can come after both parties equally - regardless of what the divorce decree says. This holds true in non-mortgage situations too.

It is confusing and a bit counterintuitive - you'd think a court order would be the end of it, but unfortunately this usually isn't the case. Good luck, and I hope things work out quickly.

[Bluerobin]

Find the right local bar. Get Vito and Bruno to visit the EX - she will be glad to sign anything when they show up.

[Gardening Grandma]

GG -- the court order is only good if you take her to court. Absent court action -- if your DH and his Ex are Joint Tenants, then should he pass away, she would have title to the entire home. If they are Tenants in Common, she would only have title to her half and his half would need to be probated.

Well, if we have to, we will take her to court to sign the qq deed.

I'm looking at the "Statutory Warranty Deed". It says "John H Doe and Jane H Doe, his wife"....

No mention of Joint Tenants OR Tenants in Common, and she hasn't been his wife for 40 years.....

[kent]

May 12, 2011 20:22:52 GMT -5 cronewitch said:

I wouldn't pay her at all, she owes him a signature. If she doesn't sign take her to court for contempt of court and sue her for all the cost and pain a suffering.

100% agree!

[swamp]

GG, it depends on the state. In NY, husband and wife take title as tenants by the entirety, which means they are joint tenants wtih a right of survivorship, but there is no right of partition. Upon divorce, they become tenants in common, which mean each party owns a half and upon death, that half is subject to probate. So if your DH were to die tomorrow, you're going to have to argue with the probate court that she doesn't have an interest in the house. Equitably, she probably doesn't and you would probably win, but you don't want to have to fight it out.

I have handled situations like this. Usually a letter to the person with the warning if they don't sign, they are going to be brought to court and asked to pay for it, and if they refuse to show up in court, the Sheriff will sign the deed for them. I have seen the court order the other party to pay. Collecting on the judgment is a whole 'nother ball of wax.........

[Gardening Grandma]

May 14, 2011 12:45:05 GMT -5 swamp said:

GG, it depends on the state. In NY, husband and wife take title as tenants by the entirety, which means they are joint tenants wtih a right of survivorship, but there is no right of partition. Upon divorce, they become tenants in common, which mean each party owns a half and upon death, that half is subject to probate. So if your DH were to die tomorrow, you're going to have to argue with the probate court that she doesn't have an interest in the house. Equitably, she probably doesn't and you would probably win, but you don't want to have to fight it out.

I have handled situations like this. Usually a letter to the person with the warning if they don't sign, they are going to be brought to court and asked to pay for it, and if they refuse to show up in court, the Sheriff will sign the deed for them. I have seen the court order the other party to pay. Collecting on the judgment is a whole 'nother ball of wax.........

Swamp,
Thanks - I appreciate the input from an attorney. I'm hoping that, til now, she just hasn't realized that ignoring the situation won't make it go away, and that a court summons might do the trick. If we actually have to pay and go to court, so be it. I really want this taken care of. (DH does too - he's expressed his appreciation to me for bird-dogging it). Eventually we'll want to sell the place and the last thing we need is the title issue. It's gone on for far too long already. We're in WA state, btw.

[swamp]

Hiring an attorney now will be cheaper than the probate court fight.

[Gardening Grandma]

Hiring an attorney now will be cheaper than the probate court fight.

Exactly. AND..... DH can't bitch about the cost. LOL ;D ;D ;D

[haapai]

Did the letter from the attorney contain a copy of the divorce decree?

[Knee Deep in Water Chloe]

I agree with greenstone--at some point your husband chose to not take her name off of the mortgage or the title. That was in my divorce decree--I have to remove xh's name from the mortgage.

His ex could be pretty annoyed about that, not that it's caused her any grief--in fact it probably helped her credit score while the mortgage was being paid one time. But, he still didn't take care of his part of it.

Good luck getting this sorted out. I hope it goes most easily for you--you've had a lot to deal with of late!

[Gardening Grandma]

May 14, 2011 20:13:56 GMT -5 Knee Deep in Water Chloe said:

I agree with greenstone--at some point your husband chose to not take her name off of the mortgage or the title. That was in my divorce decree--I have to remove xh's name from the mortgage.

His ex could be pretty annoyed about that, not that it's caused her any grief--in fact it probably helped her credit score while the mortgage was being paid one time. But, he still didn't take care of his part of it.

Good luck getting this sorted out. I hope it goes most easily for you--you've had a lot to deal with of late!

He TRIED to take her name off the mortgage. He wrote to the mortgage co asking them to remove her name. I have their response saying they had to have a copy of the recorded quitclaim deed. Obviously he's procrastinated at getting the qq deed -which leaves me in the present situation.

[2kids10horses]

GG,

His "TRIED" to remove her name from the deed is equivalent to my "TRYING" to go to the moon by jumping on a trampoline.

Sorry.

[Knee Deep in Water Chloe]

I tried to get the mortgage company to "remove" my xh's name from one of my houses. They said I had to refinance the house into my name. I do not qualify for the loan on my own. So, xh could take me to court for not either refinancing or not selling the property--on which I'm at least $45k upside down. He has not chosen to do so, which is good since I'm in contempt of my divorce decree. I tried...it won't mean much to the judge, I'm sure.

[Gardening Grandma]

2kids & UC,
I know.....

If I don't hear from the attorney tomorrow, I'll be calling him.

[happyscooter]

That was in 1971, 40 years ago. Is the house paid off or did DH refinance it several times? If it is paid off, what does the deed say? Paid in Full and it should have the owner's names listed, shouldn't it?

[ty]

Wow, and I often wonder why gay people want to marry after reading this.

Really sad that people get married and then one piece pf paper "marriage certificate" can give one or the other so much power on the other one.

Hopefully the May 21 prediction will come true for those that need it to come true.

Hopefully you have learned a lesson "NOT" to remarry again.

[haapai]

The one time that I signed a quitclaim it was for a piece of property that I had no legal claim on. (My grandmother was donating some undevelopeable swampland that was in a trust to the Nature Conservancy.)

Since I wasn't actually giving up anything and I was somewhat confused regarding why I had to sign, signing the quitclaim wasn't too high on my list of priorities. It took some prodding from relatives and a second letter from the lawyer before I signed.

I don't think that I'd respond very promptly to a letter that asked me to QC a house that I'd given up 40 years earlier in an acrimonious divorce. Heck, even if the divorce had been amicable, I'd probably drag my heels. Obediently signing and returning such a document without knowing exactly why it needs to be signed just seems reckless. I'd probably want some counsel regarding what I was being asked to sign and I'd definitely be cursing my ex for the trouble, expense, or embarrassment of getting that explanation.

In other words, even if the ex-wife isn't bitter or money-grubbing, expecting a quick and positive response is a bit optimistic.

I'd be much more likely to respond to such a request if the letter requesting the quitclaim included a copy of the divorce decree. Expecting the ex-spouse to remember what's in the decree, dig out her own copy, or drive to the adjacent county courthouse to get her own copy, is ludicrous.

[Deleted]

"I tried to get the mortgage company to "remove" my xh's name from one of my houses. They said I had to refinance the house into my name."

This is typical. Think about it from the lender's perspective; if you can currently go after two people to get the mortgage paid why would you agree to let one off the hook? UC's husband is probably hoping UC keeps paying. A short sale or foreclosure will really hurt his credit. If he pushes for resolution she might just do that. And I'm guessing she can file BK easier than he can if there's a deficiency.

Swamp- would it make sense for GG's husband to file for a quiet title action? How do you "make" someone file a quitclaim?

[Gardening Grandma]

Is the house paid off or did DH refinance it several times? If it is paid off, what does the deed say? Paid in Full and it should have the owner's names listed, shouldn't it?

The house is paid off. There is a letter from the mortgage co saying they included the mortgage documents and unrecorded discharge. And that those documents needs to be recorded immediately. Apparently he did so (this is dated 1997) since those documents aren't here. I'd have to go to the county office to see what the actual deed says (but I'm pretty sure it's both of them)...


Hopefully you have learned a lesson "NOT" to remarry again.
kreepy, I think the lesson here is not to procrastinate...

I'd be much more likely to respond to such a request if the letter requesting the quitclaim included a copy of the divorce decree. Expecting the ex-spouse to remember what's in the decree, dig out her own copy, or drive to the adjacent county courthouse to get her own copy, is ludicrous.

haapai. Good point, I went back in my email to read the exact wording the atty sent the ex:
"Dear Ms Doe,
I represent Mr Gardeninggrandpa from whom you were divorced by Decree of Dissolution dated July 20, 1976.

I have enclosed for your review copies of a letter from XYZ Mortgage Company and of the Order of King County Superior Court clarifying the Degree of Dissolution making it clear that the property at (address) was awarded to Mr Gardeninggrandpa.

Unfortunately, whoever was responsible for drafting and recording a Quit Claim deed to fulfill the Court's Order didn't do so.
This has several implications for you.
1) The Order needs to be complied with
2) Any title report or credit report that references the property will still show you as one of the owners and if the credit report or title report contains negative information, that negative information could impact your own credit rating.

For those reasons alone, I strongly suggest that you sign the enclosed QQ deed, in the presence of a notary and return it to me in the SASE I have enclosed. Once the Deed as been recorded I will send you a copy so that both parties can be assured that the matter has been resolved.

Please call if you have questions.

Swamp- would it make sense for GG's husband to file for a quiet title action? How do you "make" someone file a quitclaim?

What's a "title action"
I don't think anyone can "make" her sign it, but hopefully, she can be "encouraged" to sign it? Or we can go to court and ask the court to sign off on it?

[Deleted]

May 15, 2011 15:47:00 GMT -5 @bonnap said:

Swamp- would it make sense for GG's husband to file for a quiet title action? How do you "make" someone file a quitclaim?

An action to quiet title is a request to the court to determine who exactly owns property when there are ambiguities. (I'm not a lawyer; I looked it up on Wikipedia.) It sounds like there aren't really ambiguities here. The decree said she should sign a quit-claim deed giving away all her rights to the property. She didn't. The way to resolve it is to get her to sign the deed.

But real lawyers may have a different opinion!

[Deleted]

My question to Swamp refers to the possibility that the ex does nothing. How do you clear title? In a situation where an old owner can't be found or where deeds weren't properly signed off one can file a "Quiet Title Action".

What's really a shame is that Gardening Grandpa's lawyer failed to file this paperwork.

[swamp]

May 15, 2011 15:47:00 GMT -5 @bonnap said:

"I tried to get the mortgage company to "remove" my xh's name from one of my houses. They said I had to refinance the house into my name."

This is typical. Think about it from the lender's perspective; if you can currently go after two people to get the mortgage paid why would you agree to let one off the hook? UC's husband is probably hoping UC keeps paying. A short sale or foreclosure will really hurt his credit. If he pushes for resolution she might just do that. And I'm guessing she can file BK easier than he can if there's a deficiency.

Swamp- would it make sense for GG's husband to file for a quiet title action? How do you "make" someone file a quitclaim?

No, because it's not a cloud on title issue, it's enforcing a judgment of divorce issue. Enforcement actions are also cheaper and easier than quiet title actions.

[swamp]

May 15, 2011 18:44:07 GMT -5 @bonnap said:

My question to Swamp refers to the possibility that the ex does nothing. How do you clear title? In a situation where an old owner can't be found or where deeds weren't properly signed off one can file a "Quiet Title Action".

What's really a shame is that Gardening Grandpa's lawyer failed to file this paperwork.

You do an an action to enforce the judgment and ask the sheriff to sign the deed on the ex's behalf, and charge the costs of the lawsuit to the ex.

GG's lawyer may not have been able to prepare a deed, if there is a mortgage on the property, in NY at least, it's a misdemeanor to knowingly transfer real property with an open mortgage on it. Until the mortgage was refinanced without the ex, or the mortgage was paid off in full, the property couldn't be transferred.