Poor (mouth) Rich People

[commentator]

I've seen several posts by right-wingers complaining about (1) working poor paying no income taxes and (2) wealthy people paying ever so much income tax. Well, take a look at this:

money.cnn.com/2011/05/09/pf/taxes/millionaires_income_tax/index.htm

[Deleted]

so....

would you like to tax the non taxable federal/state/local bonds?

if so....hold off building new schools, bridges, roads or major local works projects

most of those come from TAX EXEMPT bonds

and the ONLY reason invest in them is for the tax relief

be careful what you wish for.....

[Savoir Faire-Demogague in NJ]

I recall sometime in the 90s, I believe, that this issue of tax exempts muni's being put on the table to remove the exemption.
State governors went ballistic. Yeah, it had to be in the 90s, because it was Gov. Mario Cuomo of NY who was leading the charge.
Anyone can put money into muni bonds, and it does depend on your tax bracket.

[floridayankee]

May 12, 2011 13:10:28 GMT -5 @gdgyva said:

so....

would you like to tax the non taxable federal/state/local bonds?

if so....hold off building new schools, bridges, roads or major local works projects

most of those come from TAX EXEMPT bonds

and the ONLY reason invest in them is for the tax relief

be careful what you wish for.....

Don't disrupt the class warfare with silly, nonsensical facts and logic. Obvious this poster found a relative handful of exceptions to the norm (damn these evil rich investors for accepting pathetically low state muni interest rates in exchange for tax exempt income) so the liberals must be right. The working poor pay all the income taxes and the rich don't pay their fair share. The IRS data must have been manipulated by a conglomerate of covert evil, capitalist, communist, liberal, fascist conservative misled pub dupes.

[floridayankee]

May 12, 2011 13:18:45 GMT -5 Savoir Faire-Demogague in NJ said:

I recall sometime in the 90s, I believe, that this issue of tax exempts muni's being put on the table to remove the exemption.
State governors went ballistic. Yeah, it had to be in the 90s, because it was Gov. Mario Cuomo of NY who was leading the charge.
Anyone can put money into muni bonds, and it does depend on your tax bracket.

Next we'll be whining about all these evil rich pigs avoiding taxes because they invested in Roth's.

...stirring up that pot and inciting the ignorant. Seems like it should be an Olympic sport or something. I give this one a 3.6.

[rovo]

I think even the tax free bond income falls under the AMT. These people most likely had investment losses carried over from last year to offset the income. I know I was in the +$500K last year of investment income and I paid a ton of taxes.

[❤ mollymouser ❤]

I read the article.

68% (63.2 million) people earning less than $50,000 have no tax liability.

1% (4,000) people earning more than $1 million have no tax liability, with the explanation that many of these people may have had huge losses or whose income is from tax-free investments like municipal bonds.

OK.... these statistics are interesting, and clearly show that people in both income categories (as well as the categories in between) sometimes have no federal tax liability.

[cme1201]

May 12, 2011 14:29:16 GMT -5 ❤ mollymouser ❤ said:

I read the article.

68% (63.2 million) people earning less than $50,000 have no tax liability.

1% (4,000) people earning more than $1 million have no tax liability, with the explanation that many of these people may have had huge losses or whose income is from tax-free investments like municipal bonds.

OK.... these statistics are interesting, and clearly show that people in both income categories (as well as the categories in between) sometimes have no federal tax liability.

What you are to do Molly is throw out the fact that 68% of those making 50k are not paying taxes and only concentrate that 1% of those above 1 million are not paying taxes. If that 1% paid taxes we would not be in the shape we are in.

I think that is what the OP was trying to state, yet anyone who understands basic math knows that this will not happen.

[jkapp]

May 12, 2011 13:48:34 GMT -5 floridayankee said:

May 12, 2011 13:18:45 GMT -5 Savoir Faire-Demogague in NJ said:

I recall sometime in the 90s, I believe, that this issue of tax exempts muni's being put on the table to remove the exemption.
State governors went ballistic. Yeah, it had to be in the 90s, because it was Gov. Mario Cuomo of NY who was leading the charge.
Anyone can put money into muni bonds, and it does depend on your tax bracket.

Next we'll be whining about all these evil rich pigs avoiding taxes because they invested in Roth's.

...stirring up that pot and inciting the ignorant. Seems like it should be an Olympic sport or something. I give this one a 3.6.

I don't know...I'd have to give it more like a 8.4! Think about it - complaining about government selling tax exempt bonds to fund social projects because they can't tax it from their poorer populace. Gotta love it!

[Deleted]

Ohhhh but they CAN tax it from the poorer people

They choose NOT to

Everyone....repeat everyone.....should pay a share of the cost of society

Why should nearly 50% have zero income tax liability? And yes...i understand they pay other taxes.....but why cant they at least pay a token amount into the system they draw benefits from?

And why does a family of 8 pay less than a family of 3 or 4. They use MORE services....shouldnt they be required to pay for them?

I am in the over 250k income area.....and we pay every year. I dont expect someone earning 35k to pay the same % as i do....but they should pay some

If my bracket is at 30%....why cant theirs be at 6-8%?

Just asking.....

[burnsattornincan]

This has to be the most idiotic article on taxation I've ever seen. Had to go back and see where this garbage came from... yep, the Communist News Network. Every example of "tax avoidance" the rich use is complete bs.

Municipal bonds? If the interest is tax free then its tax free for everyone I guess. So what.

Capital gains? Well just like the idiot said, the rich could use capital losses to offset it. What is the problem with that?

Foreign dividends. It says BP withholds the tax on the dividends. So that withheld tax should be handed over to the US I suppose. So the rich claim the foreign tax credit to avoid double taxation. Is this some sort of problem with anyone?

Giving to charity to reduce your tax liability. It is mind boggling how some think the person is somehow getting ahead by doing this. Read: the person is GIVING something away to slightly reduce taxes. How do you ever come out ahead by giving something away? The government gets a little less tax revenue out of the deal but if they have a problem with that then just eliminate the tax deduction. If more people end up in the street then so what, right?

[chiver78]

May 12, 2011 14:38:27 GMT -5 cme1201 said:

May 12, 2011 14:29:16 GMT -5 ❤ mollymouser ❤ said:

I read the article.

68% (63.2 million) people earning less than $50,000 have no tax liability.

1% (4,000) people earning more than $1 million have no tax liability, with the explanation that many of these people may have had huge losses or whose income is from tax-free investments like municipal bonds.

OK.... these statistics are interesting, and clearly show that people in both income categories (as well as the categories in between) sometimes have no federal tax liability.

What you are to do Molly is throw out the fact that 68% of those making 50k are not paying taxes and only concentrate that 1% of those above 1 million are not paying taxes. If that 1% paid taxes we would not be in the shape we are in.

I think that is what the OP was trying to state, yet anyone who understands basic math knows that this will not happen.

perhaps you should read the whole article. this was at the bottom:

But keep in mind that boosting taxes on the rich by itself won't come close to solving the country's fiscal problems for a number of reasons. Most notably, there simply aren't enough of them.

I took the OP as food for thought, not any agenda to push.

[floridayankee]

May 12, 2011 14:29:16 GMT -5 ❤ mollymouser ❤ said:

OK.... these statistics are interesting, and clearly show that people in both income categories (as well as the categories in between) sometimes have no federal tax liability.

Don't know about you Molly, but as long as I've been in the middle income brackets, I've always had an income tax liability.

[dancinmama]

May 12, 2011 15:00:47 GMT -5 @gdgyva said:

Ohhhh but they CAN tax it from the poorer people

They choose NOT to

Everyone....repeat everyone.....should pay a share of the cost of society

Why should nearly 50% have zero income tax liability? And yes...i understand they pay other taxes.....but why cant they at least pay a token amount into the system they draw benefits from?

And why does a family of 8 pay less than a family of 3 or 4. They use MORE services....shouldnt they be required to pay for them?

I am in the over 250k income area.....and we pay every year. I dont expect someone earning 35k to pay the same % as i do....but they should pay some

If my bracket is at 30%....why cant theirs be at 6-8%?

Just asking.....

I agree. EVERYONE should have some skin in the game.

[cme1201]

May 12, 2011 15:13:24 GMT -5 chiver78 said:

May 12, 2011 14:38:27 GMT -5 cme1201 said:

What you are to do Molly is throw out the fact that 68% of those making 50k are not paying taxes and only concentrate that 1% of those above 1 million are not paying taxes. If that 1% paid taxes we would not be in the shape we are in.

I think that is what the OP was trying to state, yet anyone who understands basic math knows that this will not happen.

perhaps you should read the whole article. this was at the bottom:

But keep in mind that boosting taxes on the rich by itself won't come close to solving the country's fiscal problems for a number of reasons. Most notably, there simply aren't enough of them.

I took the OP as food for thought, not any agenda to push.

I was speaking to this:

OP's original quote: "I've seen several posts by right-wingers complaining about (1) working poor paying no income taxes and (2) wealthy people paying ever so much income tax. Well, take a look at this:"

[floridayankee]

May 12, 2011 14:43:23 GMT -5 jkapp said:

I don't know...I'd have to give it more like a 8.4! Think about it - complaining about government selling tax exempt bonds to fund social projects because they can't tax it from their poorer populace. Gotta love it!

You're way too generous...perhaps you misunderstood the post? They were't actually complaining about the government selling the bonds.....they complained about the evil rich folks actually buying them. Damn them greedy investors....should have bought gas futures instead.

[floridayankee]

May 12, 2011 15:00:47 GMT -5 @gdgyva said:

And why does a family of 8 pay less than a family of 3 or 4. They use MORE services....shouldnt they be required to pay for them?

Breeding current tax deductions and future tax payers is now a sporting event. He shoots....sscccoooooorrrreeeee!!

[Deleted]

www.fairtax.org/site/PageServer?pagename=about_main

What is the FairTax plan?

The FairTax plan is a comprehensive proposal that replaces all federal income and payroll based taxes with an integrated approach including a progressive national retail sales tax, a prebate to ensure no American pays federal taxes on spending up to the poverty level, dollar-for-dollar federal revenue neutrality, and, through companion legislation, the repeal of the 16th Amendment.

The FairTax Act (HR 25, S 13) is nonpartisan legislation. It abolishes all federal personal and corporate income taxes, gift, estate, capital gains, alternative minimum, Social Security, Medicare, and self-employment taxes and replaces them with one simple, visible, federal retail sales tax administered primarily by existing state sales tax authorities.

The FairTax taxes us only on what we choose to spend on new goods or services, not on what we earn. The FairTax is a fair, efficient, transparent, and intelligent solution to the frustration and inequity of our current tax system.

The FairTax:

Enables workers to keep their entire paychecks
Enables retirees to keep their entire pensions
Refunds in advance the tax on purchases of basic necessities
Allows American products to compete fairly
Brings transparency and accountability to tax policy
Ensures Social Security and Medicare funding
Closes all loopholes and brings fairness to taxation
Abolishes the IRS

** Something to consider?**

[floridayankee]

May 12, 2011 15:13:24 GMT -5 chiver78 said:

I took the OP as food for thought, not any agenda to push.

I've seen several posts by right-wingers complaining about (1) working poor paying no income taxes and (2) wealthy people paying ever so much income tax. Well, take a look at this:

Sounds more like "you right wingers are wrong so in your face". It's like saying Tampa should start building ski slopes because it snowed here in Jan 2010 (technically it was sleet, but close enough for government).
www.wftv.com/news/22191710/detail.html

[mmhmm]

May 12, 2011 15:14:12 GMT -5 floridayankee said:

May 12, 2011 14:29:16 GMT -5 ❤ mollymouser ❤ said:

OK.... these statistics are interesting, and clearly show that people in both income categories (as well as the categories in between) sometimes have no federal tax liability.

Don't know about you Molly, but as long as I've been in the middle income brackets, I've always had an income tax liability.

I always pay in, as well, floridayankee.

[❤ mollymouser ❤]

My wonderful DH is active duty military and his income is more than $50,000 per year. And we pay taxes ~ both to the IRS as well as to the State of California (10% income tax on those earning more than $47,000). We don't have children and we don't have a mortgage and we don't have any tax-free municipal bond interest; so we pay taxes.

I will concede, though, that our tax liability is significantly reduced for those months that he's deployed to a hostile fire combat zone (Iraq and Afghanistan, for example) ... but, honestly, I'd rather pay taxes and have him not deployed so much.

[Deleted]

I bet, molly. Glad you get some compensation, at least. Do you live near a PX and all that? VA hospital? I hear ours in Tucson is one of the best in the country. Military folks retire here to be near it.

[commentator]

If poor people are evil leeches for paying no income taxes, what are rich people who pay no income taxes? Just asking.

[formerexpat]

Another possibility to investment losses carried forward or interest on tax free bonds is income earned overseas. They'll pay taxes to the governments overseas and then have a credit on their US tax return.

If they're in a jurisdiction with a higher tax rate than the US, then their federal income tax PAID TO THE US would be zero. Then again, the taxes they pay to other governments would be pretty high.

Talk about a false flag.

[Mad Dawg Wiccan]

May 12, 2011 21:49:07 GMT -5 @commentator said:

If poor people are evil leeches for paying no income taxes, what are rich people who pay no income taxes? Just asking.

The 4,000 versus the (about) 150,000,000? Insignificant.

[burnsattornincan]

If poor people are evil leeches for paying no income taxes, what are rich people who pay no income taxes? Just asking.

FYI - This guy knows about taxes and probably came here just looking for some fun.

[❤ mollymouser ❤]

I don't think anyone in this thread has said poor people were evil or leeches.

By the way, leeches are scary and sort of freak me out. EEEEEK.

[commentator]

May 12, 2011 22:52:28 GMT -5 ❤ mollymouser ❤ said:

I don't think anyone in this thread has said poor people were evil or leeches.

By the way, leeches are scary and sort of freak me out. EEEEEK.

In this thread? No. But, I have seen very negative posts by members of this forum attacking poor people in general and the working poor in particular because they pay no income taxes. I'm curious whether their low opinion extends to the idle rich who pay no income taxes. Apparently, it does not.

[burnsattornincan]

I'm curious whether their low opinion extends to the idle rich who pay no income taxes. Apparently, it does not.

Give it up tax man. You know perfectly well you cannot become "idle rich" without paying a ton of taxes on along the way. Unless you get it handed down to you... but then there is the estate tax which is essentially double taxing already taxed wealth. Completely against the Constitution and the ones responsible for enacting and continuing the illegal practice should be executed.

Dalton McGuinty Burns III

[floridayankee]

May 12, 2011 21:49:07 GMT -5 @commentator said:

If poor people are evil leeches for paying no income taxes, what are rich people who pay no income taxes? Just asking.

You really can't be this ....oh, never mind. you probably are.

Smells like troll in here, IMHO.