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Post by ty on May 12, 2011 23:50:28 GMT -5
"Isn't pink cashmere one of those stories? (changed person, I mean)" YES!!! I will be eternally grateful to the old money boards for what I learned there. I filed Chapter 7 in 2009; I had around $50k in consumer debt, around $20k in medical debt. I found YM in late '07, finally *got it* in early '08. I started following the advice I saw there, but I eventually had to make one of the most difficult decisions I've ever made. I consider myself a person of integrity, so it was NOT easy to wrap my mind around the idea of not paying my debts. I'm not at all proud of having filed BK, but I do believe it was the best decision to be made at the time...... regardless of what other people may think. 2 years later, my automatic response to whether I have a cc is "No". But I do have one locked away, with a limit less than $1k. I know using it wisely could help improve my credit, but I'm too afraid of old habits dying hard, so I rarely use it. For the first time in my adult life, I have no car payment. I'd never kept a car long enough to pay it off. I drool over the new Camaro, but absolutely LOVE having a reliable car that's paid for, so I'm cool. I'd never heard of an EF before YM, now I'm building one. It's kind of pitiful at the moment, but it's more than I've ever had. Before YM, I'd never thought to save for irregular expenses and the unexpected........... now I get to grumble when I have to pull the designated money out of the account to cover them. Then I usually decide that grumbling over spending cash is better than panicking because I don't have any. I'd been a credit junkie since I got my first cc in college........ everything I've paid for since sometime in '08 has been with cash. The only thing I've upgraded since I cut back in '08 has been my cell phone plan. I got a familly plan so DD could have a cell phone when she went away to college (I paid part of her tuition and her books with cash too lol). The cell bill still vexes me when I have to pay it, I'd gotten use to the much lower one. And I have 10% of my gross going to retirement again, with the strict understanding that the funds are FOR RETIREMENT ONLY. I could probably get some credit if I tried hard enough, and Lord knows there's plenty of stuff I want. But the new me pays cash for what I want, even if that means I have to wait. I'm learning patience and discipline although they aren't things I'm good at. So yes, some people do file for BK and really change......... if they really want to and have the knowledge they need. I'm still learning and have room for improvement but I absolutely have changed. I had to do the work, but posters on the old boards taught me what work needed to be done. THANKS!!
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Firebird
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Post by Firebird on May 13, 2011 10:27:34 GMT -5
"Isn't pink cashmere one of those stories? (changed person, I mean)" YES!!! I will be eternally grateful to the old money boards for what I learned there. I filed Chapter 7 in 2009; I had around $50k in consumer debt, around $20k in medical debt. I found YM in late '07, finally *got it* in early '08. I started following the advice I saw there, but I eventually had to make one of the most difficult decisions I've ever made. I consider myself a person of integrity, so it was NOT easy to wrap my mind around the idea of not paying my debts. I'm not at all proud of having filed BK, but I do believe it was the best decision to be made at the time...... regardless of what other people may think. 2 years later, my automatic response to whether I have a cc is "No". But I do have one locked away, with a limit less than $1k. I know using it wisely could help improve my credit, but I'm too afraid of old habits dying hard, so I rarely use it. For the first time in my adult life, I have no car payment. I'd never kept a car long enough to pay it off. I drool over the new Camaro, but absolutely LOVE having a reliable car that's paid for, so I'm cool. I'd never heard of an EF before YM, now I'm building one. It's kind of pitiful at the moment, but it's more than I've ever had. Before YM, I'd never thought to save for irregular expenses and the unexpected........... now I get to grumble when I have to pull the designated money out of the account to cover them. Then I usually decide that grumbling over spending cash is better than panicking because I don't have any. I'd been a credit junkie since I got my first cc in college........ everything I've paid for since sometime in '08 has been with cash. The only thing I've upgraded since I cut back in '08 has been my cell phone plan. I got a familly plan so DD could have a cell phone when she went away to college (I paid part of her tuition and her books with cash too lol). The cell bill still vexes me when I have to pay it, I'd gotten use to the much lower one. And I have 10% of my gross going to retirement again, with the strict understanding that the funds are FOR RETIREMENT ONLY. I could probably get some credit if I tried hard enough, and Lord knows there's plenty of stuff I want. But the new me pays cash for what I want, even if that means I have to wait. I'm learning patience and discipline although they aren't things I'm good at. So yes, some people do file for BK and really change......... if they really want to and have the knowledge they need. I'm still learning and have room for improvement but I absolutely have changed. I had to do the work, but posters on the old boards taught me what work needed to be done. THANKS!! I agree with Lena about the YM awards, I would definitely nominate you for one! Well done!!
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Post by Deleted on May 13, 2011 10:29:23 GMT -5
blackcard, I actually added a "Camaro" line to my spending plan last year. The line is blank all the way across lol. I guess I don't want the car bad enough to figure out how to make some numbers for it fit in the plan. I love to travel, and that line item gets funded, so I'm no longer denying myself everything. Kreepy, thanks for the thumbs up and the Karma. Lena, thank you for the kind words. That time of my life was miserable enough and stressful enough (I was so stressed I started getting physically sick) that I knew I didn't want to EVERRRRRRRR be in that position again if I could avoid it. So I was very serious about learning from my mistakes. I must admit that I was too afraid to tell the whole story at once on YM and ask for advice. I learned mostly from reading responses to other people. The advice usually boiled down to the same things, and it finally all made sense to me. I mention that because I know it gets frustrating trying to help posters that don't seem to want to change. The poster asking for advice may be resistant, but surely there are other people like me, lurking, reading and learning without you all ever knowing it.
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Post by Deleted on May 13, 2011 10:31:03 GMT -5
Firebird, thank you!
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Post by ty on May 13, 2011 10:56:49 GMT -5
You are a true inspiration Pink. More KARMA for you in about 40 minutes.
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Firebird
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Post by Firebird on May 13, 2011 11:22:22 GMT -5
Lena, thank you for the kind words. That time of my life was miserable enough and stressful enough (I was so stressed I started getting physically sick) that I knew I didn't want to EVERRRRRRRR be in that position again if I could avoid it. So I was very serious about learning from my mistakes.
See, this is so encouraging to me because a lot of people would rather just stay miserable. I SO wish Doxie would listen to you!!!
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Post by Deleted on May 13, 2011 12:05:47 GMT -5
firebird, Doxie isn't miserable yet. She's a little concerned, but thinks that if she can just hold on, she can keep doing what she's doing and things will somehow work out. I understand that kind of thinking, I use to be like that.
The thing is, even the best advice is useless if the person being advised isn't ready. Doxie isn't ready. She can't see that SHE'S one of her problems. And honestly, I believe that for most people like Doxie and my former self, money problems aren't really just about money. There's almost always something else going on that the person may not even be aware of or is afraid to acknowledge. Why else would it be so difficult to accept the numbers and do what needs to be done? Math is simple and doesn't change, it's our thoughts that cause the problems. I did a lot of soul searching; improving my money habits was just part of the work I was doing to become who I really wanted to be. I'm almost 40, but I feel like I finally started growing up a few years ago. LOL
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AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP
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Post by AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP on May 13, 2011 12:09:30 GMT -5
So I have a coworker who just filed for bankruptcy. Creditors have been calling the office for this employee asking for her to pay her bills. Her finances are really non of my business, but what really bothers me is that it seems that she really hasn't tried cutting back her expenses before filing for bankruptcy. For example: * She brings in an Egg McMuffin and Large Diet Coke every morning for breakfast * Gets French Acrylic Manicures and Pedicures * Goes tanning * Is now looking to move out of her apartment and into a condo or town home * Receives child support on time every month (she is very lucky!) * Drives an old vehicle (which is good!) I know I shouldn't be judging, however she makes it really hard when she tells the whole office every financial detail of her life. To me, it makes no sense to file for bankruptcy and not adjust your spending habits. These people really aren't solving their problems! Has anyone posted, "Mind your own business" yet? Yeah, she 'tells' but you don't have to listen. Of course bk is a quick fix for a lot of people, and for those people, they will NEVER 'get it', so just let it roll off and go on about your day.
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Firebird
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Post by Firebird on May 13, 2011 12:09:48 GMT -5
Pink, that's very true. One of my favorite expressions is, "You're ready to do something when you're ready to do it." All the advice and talk in the world won't make someone do something they're not ready to do.
What puzzles me, though, is how she can have hundreds of strangers tell her flat-out that she's on thin ice and if she falls into the chilly water she will drown, and just... ignore it. I don't get that. If you actually were skating, and you inadvertently skated into thin-ice territory and everyone was yelling at you to come back to where they were because you were going to fall through the ice any second, wouldn't you LISTEN TO THEM?! Wouldn't it tell you something when NO ONE agreed with you that you probably wouldn't fall through the ice if you skated carefully enough?
Teh mindz, it bogglez.
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Clever Username
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Post by Clever Username on May 13, 2011 12:28:21 GMT -5
I would not wish it on anyone, but what are the "excusable" reasons for someone declaring BK? Grace is alive and well in this world. Bankruptcy works the same way. You don't need to deserve the relief that you get in bankruptcy. But, also similar to gifts of grace, it's nice to see the receiver straiten up and fly right afterwards.
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Post by Deleted on May 13, 2011 13:22:02 GMT -5
firebird, if you've repeatedly skated on that same thin ice before and didn't fall through, you're likely to believe that you can keep doing it without falling through. Until you finally actually do fall through.
And if you have someone (parents perhaps) on thicker ice that you know would save you if you fall through, and you're ok with making your problems someone else's problems, why not keep taking chances and skating on thin ice?
Until you realize that you don't HAVE to stay on thin ice, acknowledge that it's completely up to you and within your control to decide whether you stay there or not, and you choose to do something different, you'll keep skating. Until you can't anymore, of course.
It's really no different than all the other bad habits people have that they know aren't good for them. Smoking, overeating, blah blah blah. We know it can kill us, but we do it anyway because we want to. Lots of people don't do those things in the first place just because they value their health. But for some of us, it takes actually having a heart attack, stroke, or whatever, and suddenly we see the light and want to do better. Then some of us get really sick and still don't do what's necessary to get healthier and stay that way.
I've learned that people do what they want to, including me. If I'm dissatisfied with something in my life, but I'm not doing whatever is within my control to change it, it must not be that important to me. When something is really important to us, we find a way to make it happen.
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Firebird
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Post by Firebird on May 13, 2011 13:27:47 GMT -5
You have much knowledge.
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TheOtherMe
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Post by TheOtherMe on May 13, 2011 20:44:55 GMT -5
"Isn't pink cashmere one of those stories? (changed person, I mean)" I filed Chapter 7 in 2009; I had around $50k in consumer debt, around $20k in medical debt. I found YM in late '07, finally *got it* in early '08. I started following the advice I saw there, but I eventually had to make one of the most difficult decisions I've ever made. I consider myself a person of integrity, so it was NOT easy to wrap my mind around the idea of not paying my debts. I'm not at all proud of having filed BK, but I do believe it was the best decision to be made at the time...... regardless of what other people may think. 2 years later, my automatic response to whether I have a cc is "No". But I do have one locked away, with a limit less than $1k. I know using it wisely could help improve my credit, but I'm too afraid of old habits dying hard, so I rarely use it. So yes, some people do file for BK and really change......... if they really want to and have the knowledge they need. I'm still learning and have room for improvement but I absolutely have changed. I had to do the work, but posters on the old boards taught me what work needed to be done. THANKS!! I had to file BK in 2004. It started with major medical bills. However, consumer debt got added to it because I had no money left after attempting to pay the medical bills. By the time I filed, I was charging food just to eat. Minimum payments were eating me up. It's over 7 years ago. I never discovered these forums. However, I discovered myself. The collection calls were driving me to suicide. A friend told me that day to call a BK attorney. If I hadn't done that, I wouldn't be here to tell about it. When the BK judge asked me why I filed, I told him it was either this or suicide. He didn't ask me any more questions, but said I made the right choice. I got a secured credit card and would charge one tank of gas a month on it and pay it off. I now have no secured credit cards. I have three CCs with fairly low limits. I try to use them every month and I pay them off each month. I was able to qualify for a home mortgage. I am already retired on a federal pension. I have health insurance through that, but I was doing experimental treatment which wasn't covered. It did save my life, so it was worth it. I am now on a plan that a financial counselor at the credit union worked out. $250 goes directly in to savings. $100 of it is designated for property taxes and I will not touch that account until I get the bill from the mortgage company for what needs to go into the escrow account. The house had a one year property tax abatement, so not much is being escrowed for them. The other $150 is for car savings/EF. It's building quite nicely. He approved me spending some money on a vacation to where I used to live. I will not incur lodging. I found a great deal on the air fare and will only need to rent a car. Since I will be staying at a friend's house, I will be buying food and cooking there. He agrees that I need some contact with my friends who have been my friends for 35 years. I just moved "home" 2 years ago. I miss Colorado and love to go home home. Thanks for reading. I am getting through this and my credit rating has improved tremendously. And KARMA for you, Pink.
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Post by Deleted on May 14, 2011 5:44:34 GMT -5
I'm encouraged by the stories of people who got out of BK and decided they never wanted to live paycheck-to-paycheck, making minimum cc payments again. It can be a learning experience. I also have to admit that exorbitant uninsured medical expenses would have been one thing that might have driven me into that decision over the years. I've been very fortunate to be pretty healthy and to have always had decent health insurance coverage.
I'm suspecting, though, that the OP's co-worker is not going to change her ways. A woman in my church, a dentist in her 40s, told me she'd declared BK 3 times. She had a huge wardrobe (from what I saw on Sundays) and was known for her eccentric hats. She even owned a pair of red cowboy boots that she wore with one outfit. She disappeared after she lost her last job and I wonder what happened to her.
BK isn't free. The unpaid debts result in lower tax revenue to the government (because unpaid debts are a reduction to taxable income), they raise borrowing costs for the rest of us, and they can leave small businesses without money to pay their suppliers or their employees. If the person declaring BK understands this, they won't want to go through this more than once. It's the repeats, who never "get it" and think it's just a way to wipe the slate clean every few years, who really bother me.
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TheOtherMe
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Post by TheOtherMe on May 14, 2011 10:14:44 GMT -5
While sitting in the courtroom waiting for my turn, I saw people who were there for the 3rd time. The judge had no mercy on them. I saw young people in their early 20's filing BK over a ridiculously expensive car and crying because the precious car was going to be gone.
I told the judge I would never be back in a BK courtroom unless it was over medical expenses again. And I won't be. I wouldn't have been there in the first place if it wasn't for that.
My car was fully paid for and they let me keep it. I was renting, so no problem there. I did not declare loans from friends and family. I have paid all of those back in full. I would not burn my friends and family who trusted me.
I have a friend whose daughter burned them. She borrowed $20K from her parents, cashed the check and filed BK the next day. Parents were listed as debtors. They told parents they would pay it back. So far, they have paid $50. It's been probably 5 years.
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TheOtherMe
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Post by TheOtherMe on May 14, 2011 18:29:50 GMT -5
I don't know the details on the $20K check. I just know how angry the parents were. Maybe mom and dad didn't fight it and believed the son-in-law when he said they would repay it.
I was equally surprised when she told me that husband got a new job, they couldn't sell their house as told by the BK trustee and had to rent it at a loss, went to Florida for his new job and bought another house. She said they also opened up a bunch of CCs right away and were headed in the same direction in 7 years.
My friend has now passed away or I'd call her to see how it all turned out. She did tell me she had changed her will when she found out she was ill, so that the daughter didn't inherit a dime until this loan was "repaid" from her inheritance. Parents had divorced and dad has also passed away. Kids made some money on mom's house, but when split four ways, I doubt if she got much.
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DVM gone riding
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Post by DVM gone riding on May 15, 2011 13:43:47 GMT -5
I have been thinking. Doxie isn't CM, CM had three kids, though we had to pull the info out of her for the last one, plus CM's first kid wasn't the husbands but someone elses so he was making her life worse by trying to get the kid (cause he was on the birth certificate) and refusing to pay child support because they both knew it wasn't actually his kid. Also CM was horribly inconsistent. Doxie has been surprisingly consistent (I know there are minor things like selling the truck but the basic story hasn't changed from thread to thread) plus I think both were posting at the same time on YM.
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Firebird
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Post by Firebird on May 16, 2011 12:45:28 GMT -5
CM only had two kids, the child support fiasco was with the older one. I haven't heard Dox mention any baby daddy drama, though.
And actually, CM was fairly consistent... she just provided strange details at strange times, much like Dox. As I've said a lot, though, I don't really care if they're the same person or not. My advice to her would be the same regardless, and I think that's true of most of us. But whatever.
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AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP
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Post by AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP on May 16, 2011 13:16:57 GMT -5
I don't say this to brag, but to bolster your point. Millionaires don't drive their net worth.
I have been driving a 1997 Civic EX Coupe since I bought it used in 1999. It has 177K miles on it. I could write a check for the new Camero any time I wanted, but it would really bother me to see $45K or so evaporate into $30K in a matter of a year or two.
We buy things when our assets can support the decision, and we're not opposed to financing things as long as our assets make the payments-- to wit:
The family DID buy a new (our first new vehicle) 2007 Honda Odyssey in February of 2007 and we will be done paying for that in June.
We chose to finance it so we could "keep our powder dry" and we subsequently used the cash to buy two (2) houses from a small bank in South Bend, Indiana for $28,700 (including rehab) which are now pay us a combined $920 in rent (annual taxes are $1,800 and we keep 20% of the rent in reserve). Depreciation keeps the taxable income low and we net-- take-home, spendable cash flow-- about $600 a month. Our payment on the van is $382, and that will be done in June.
After that, the $600 or so keeps right on rolling in.
We're taking a full-fledged vacation in July for about three weeks. We're gonna charge it to our Marriott Rewards card, and then pay it off. Zero-interest. Lots of points to make the next trip cheaper.
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wmpeon
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Post by wmpeon on May 16, 2011 22:24:01 GMT -5
I'll admit, it can be so very easy to judge others filing BK, yet so much of it comes down to financial education. I have parents that filed twice and two sisters that each filed once. These are educated, intelligent people, yet they brought it on themselves. Sis shrugging off a $30 overdrawn fee when buying $10 in gas? Then doing that again when she bought dinner and again when she bought a few groceries? Other sis intentionally paying her mortgage late and incurring a late fee each month, just so she'd have an extra month's worth of "wiggle room". It's this type of stuff that drives me nuts.
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TheOtherMe
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Post by TheOtherMe on May 17, 2011 9:56:02 GMT -5
That was the kind of stuff my bankruptcy judge was not taking to very kindly. He let them cry as he told them they had to sell their house, car, etc.
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qofcc
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Post by qofcc on May 17, 2011 10:25:32 GMT -5
I have been thinking. Doxie isn't CM, CM had three kids, though we had to pull the info out of her for the last one, plus CM's first kid wasn't the husbands but someone else's so he was making her life worse by trying to get the kid (cause he was on the birth certificate) and refusing to pay child support because they both knew it wasn't actually his kid. Also CM was horribly inconsistent. Doxie has been surprisingly consistent (I know there are minor things like selling the truck but the basic story hasn't changed from thread to thread) plus I think both were posting at the same time on YM.
CM only had 2 kids. We thought she had a 3rd when she finally admitted she was out on maternity leave when she had her foot surgery, but it turns out she had been counting the unborn child as the "child under one year" all along for a total of 2 children.
CM's first child was from a guy she dated before her EXH, but the EXH was paying child support knowing full well it wasn't his kid (and making her life miserable). Doxie's first child is from someone unspecified prior to her husband and she's also receiving child support. She hasn't discussed her relationship with the person paying the support. CM was considering marrying the trucker BF, Doxie hasn't said when she and trucker DH were married.
CM wasn't inconsistent in what she said, she was just very vague and let people speculate then didn't correct them and she was having trouble finding time to post. Doxie has been better at correcting the speculation. Of course, she's checking the thread from her IPhone so it's quicker.
I don't recall if they were posting at the same time, but CM admitted she's been a poster for years under different names.
I'm not sure they're the same person, but I haven't seen anything that makes me believe they're NOT the same person either. There are so many similarities and so few differences that can't be explained by changes that could have happened in the last few months. If they're not the same person, than it's quite a coincidence and I think we've discovered a new geographic stereotype, the kind of situation they make sitcoms about.
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