Filing For Bankruptcy & Ignoring Spending Habits

[bex82]

So I have a coworker who just filed for bankruptcy. Creditors have been calling the office for this employee asking for her to pay her bills. Her finances are really non of my business, but what really bothers me is that it seems that she really hasn't tried cutting back her expenses before filing for bankruptcy. For example:

* She brings in an Egg McMuffin and Large Diet Coke every morning for breakfast
* Gets French Acrylic Manicures and Pedicures
* Goes tanning
* Is now looking to move out of her apartment and into a condo or town home
* Receives child support on time every month (she is very lucky!)
* Drives an old vehicle (which is good!)

I know I shouldn't be judging, however she makes it really hard when she tells the whole office every financial detail of her life. To me, it makes no sense to file for bankruptcy and not adjust your spending habits. These people really aren't solving their problems!

[happyscooter]

Co-worker of DH is on EBT. He just got the job and his pay doubled. I am sure he hasn't informed whoever to tell them that he makes quite a bit more money than when he first signed up. Anyway, when they stop for gas, the co-worker goes in and buys $1.29 candy bars, $.99 bags of chips, 20 ounce drinks and says 'hey do you want anything. It's free'. DH slinks back out to the car.

[tea4me]

You would think one's spending habits would change after filing for bankruptcy. If they don't change, the person will end up in the same situation.

I am often accused of being judgmental because I talk about the way people spend money. I would love to help your coworker budget her money. I would like to help her sort out the needs vs. wants.

[thyme4change]

I'd be more surprised by a story where someone knew someone who went through bankruptcy and came out a changed person with changed attitudes about money and spending. It doesn't seem to be the way it goes. Not that everyone gets back into debt, but once they release the obligations they do have, they often find they have plenty of money to fund the things they always wanted.

[midjd]

Thyme, my DH is one of those stories! He declared Chapter 7 at age 23 (about $50K in debt, mostly auto loans). He is 27 now.

We do the yours-mine-ours system, and DH is extremely careful with his pocket money. He knows that in order to spend $X on something he wants, he will have to refrain from spending $X on something ELSE he wants. He is also constantly looking for little side projects to boost his income.

Prior to the BK, he was of the "I can afford the monthly payments, so I can afford it" attitude... and also the "Well, John drives a brand-new truck and I know he makes the same amount I do, so I should be able to afford it too." Reminiscent of the Doxie thread. I think the bankruptcy both scared and shamed him a bit. He is adamant about never getting himself into that situation again (which is good - it makes our financial discussions much easier )

[Gardening Grandma]

May 12, 2011 11:45:58 GMT -5 thyme4change said:

I'd be more surprised by a story where someone knew someone who went through bankruptcy and came out a changed person with changed attitudes about money and spending. It doesn't seem to be the way it goes. Not that everyone gets back into debt, but once they release the obligations they do have, they often find they have plenty of money to fund the things they always wanted.

Isn't pink cashmere one of those stories? (changed person, I mean)

[Clever Username]

She brings in an Egg McMuffin and Large Diet Coke every morning for breakfast
$3/day * 20workdays = $60/mo

* Gets French Acrylic Manicures and Pedicures
$60/mo

* Goes tanning
$50/mo

You've listed about $2000 in yearly spending.
This is likely neither the cause of her bankruptcy nor the sign of her future demise.

[tloonya]

I hope here is ONE at least person who does the same 'unaffordable' things and will come out and explain to freaking me who can't understand HOW can you go buy the BOAT and ask me for the gas money loan??? Why is your wife comes to my store with fresh pedi/manicure and asking me to give her food and she will pay me later when she has money???

Don't we really have NO ONE here who does just that and know HOW???

We were just talking about it yesterday with my hard working friends and now you brought it up and I am steeeeeeeeeeaming...again! HOW DO THEY DO THAT?
Isn't a concept - make money-spend-make again true for everyone?

[Frugal Nurse]

My MIL had to file bankruptcy because her POS ex-husband ran up over $200K in debt by forging her signature on loans and credit cards while they were still married. I'm not sure if she's a saint or crazy, but she refused to press charges because she didn't want her daughter to see her dad go to jail. Anyhow, my MIL had a decent amount of savings, and her lawyer told her to spend most of it and live the good life before they filed the bankruptcy, because it would all be taken to pay back those debts if she didn't. Maybe your co-worker is receiving similar advice?

[bex82]

May 12, 2011 12:49:56 GMT -5 Frugal Nurse said:

My MIL had to file bankruptcy because her POS ex-husband ran up over $200K in debt by forging her signature on loans and credit cards while they were still married. I'm not sure if she's a saint or crazy, but she refused to press charges because she didn't want her daughter to see her dad go to jail. Anyhow, my MIL had a decent amount of savings, and her lawyer told her to spend most of it and live the good life before they filed the bankruptcy, because it would all be taken to pay back those debts if she didn't. Maybe your co-worker is receiving similar advice?

Actually Frugalnurse, somthing similar happened to my mom. Her now Ex husband ruined her credit and forced her to file for bankruptcy because he took out loans in her name...in amounts that he never intended to pay back. Early in the marraige she added his name to her savings account, and he wiped out most of that money too. Of course she was very naive and too trusting, but she'll have to pay for that the rest of her life.

I guess that's why people like my co-worker really get under my skin. You have someone like my mother who has rid herself of all luxuries before filing for bankruptcy - and still lives in this manner - while people like my co-worker thinks that filing for bankruptcy will solve all of her problems.

And back to my co-worker...she has already filed and everything is finalized, but still spending money on things (wants, not the necessities) that you would think she would be hesitant about.

[Clever Username]

May 12, 2011 12:40:19 GMT -5 Lady Gaga Gaga Snerd said:

Bankruptcy - Go big or go home. If you are going to file, why do so for a mere few K? Run up as many CC's as possible to the max $100k or more and THEN file. Stupid people.

Don't forget the Brewster's Millions Paradox.
You must rack up this debt while simultaneously only accumulating exempt assets.

It's like camping.
Take only pictures.
Leave only footprints.

[Firebird]

Bankruptcy - Go big or go home. If you are going to file, why do so for a mere few K? Run up as many CC's as possible to the max $100k or more and THEN file. Stupid people.

Uh, there's a word for that. I think they call it fraud.

[Firebird]

As for the few of you who posted judgemental, negative comments, shame on you. God forbid should it ever happen to you.

I'm pretty confident in saying that getting to the point where you think something is okay to buy just because you can afford the monthly payment and filing BK because of that attitude is something that will never happen to most of us here...

But that's just me.

For every success story there are at least ten repeat customers. People don't learn from their mistakes all that often.

[Firebird]

I am often accused of being judgmental because I talk about the way people spend money. I would love to help your coworker budget her money. I would like to help her sort out the needs vs. wants.

Head on over to the Dox thread then... we're about to give up

[dancinmama]

May 12, 2011 16:06:51 GMT -5 @insurancegal said:

May 12, 2011 11:57:59 GMT -5 midjd said:

Thyme, my DH is one of those stories! He declared Chapter 7 at age 23 (about $50K in debt, mostly auto loans). He is 27 now.

We do the yours-mine-ours system, and DH is extremely careful with his pocket money. He knows that in order to spend $X on something he wants, he will have to refrain from spending $X on something ELSE he wants. He is also constantly looking for little side projects to boost his income.

Prior to the BK, he was of the "I can afford the monthly payments, so I can afford it" attitude... and also the "Well, John drives a brand-new truck and I know he makes the same amount I do, so I should be able to afford it too." Reminiscent of the Doxie thread. I think the bankruptcy both scared and shamed him a bit. He is adamant about never getting himself into that situation again (which is good - it makes our financial discussions much easier )

As for the few of you who posted judgemental, negative comments, shame on you. God forbid should it ever happen to you.

I would not wish it on anyone, but what are the "excusable" reasons for someone declaring BK?

[dancinmama]

May 12, 2011 17:52:25 GMT -5 Firebird said:

I am often accused of being judgmental because I talk about the way people spend money. I would love to help your coworker budget her money. I would like to help her sort out the needs vs. wants.

Head on over to the Dox thread then... we're about to give up

You can't help someone that doesn't want to change.

[Firebird]

I would not wish it on anyone, but what are the "excusable" reasons for someone declaring BK?

I can understand it if people have humongous medical debt that they can't realistically be expected to get a handle on in the next five to ten years. This can easily happen if you or - God forbid - one of your kids has a deadly illness. Even with good insurance, the costs can become astronomical in a big hurry when you're trying to save someone's life. And naturally, because you're trying to save someone's life, you spare no expense.

So I cut people a lot of slack if they declare for that reason. And that reason only.

[april47]

I think the only "excusable" reason for bankruptcy would be a major health problems or debilitating accident. However even if a person declares bankruptcy for less, it does no good to beat your head against the wall. Learn from your mistakes and get on with life.

[hurley1980]

May 12, 2011 17:52:25 GMT -5 Firebird said:

I am often accused of being judgmental because I talk about the way people spend money. I would love to help your coworker budget her money. I would like to help her sort out the needs vs. wants.

Head on over to the Dox thread then... we're about to give up

I keep seeing poster mention this thread, so I wanted to check it out and see what all the fuss was about. Then I noticed its 45 FREAKING PAGES! That must be one serious trainwreck! Is she anything like that CM poster from the old boards?

[Firebird]

I keep seeing poster mention this thread, so I wanted to check it out and see what all the fuss was about. Then I noticed its 45 FREAKING PAGES! That must be one serious trainwreck! Is she anything like that CM poster from the old boards?

A lot of us have come to believe they are one and the same. She says they're not, but there are an awful lot of eerie similarities, up to and including identical personalities.

It's 45 pages because her train hasn't quite wrecked yet. It will soon and we're trying to talk her out of letting it.

[hurley1980]

Now I'm totally curious Firebird! I might have to check it out after all...

[Firebird]

Reader's Digest Version:

Dox is in her early 30s, married to a 26 year old. She has a child from a previous marriage, for whom she receives child support, and she and the current DH have a baby together. These kids are watched for free by her parents.

Their housing costs and transportation costs are almost equal because they have three vehicles: a gas-guzzling SUV, a truck, and a sentimental car that Dox refuses to sell. Between the upkeep of these vehicles and the gas (they both have lengthy commutes) they are actually spending MORE on the cars than they are on their house (their housing costs are actually okay, although naturally they both want a bigger house).

Their relationship is utterly dysfunctional. They are not a team in any sense of the word, and they play passive-aggressive mind games with each other all day, every day, to avoid taking responsibility for anything (two small examples: he COULD get a job making 2.5x what he is but chooses not to, and she has been signing him up for interviews for these jobs even though he clearly states he won't take them).

What else... their overall spending is 107% of their income on a good month. They make $73k together in a HCOLA of Maryland. We've discussed the possibility of them moving, but it doesn't look like it's going to happen for a variety of reasons.

They used to have a truck that Dox's brother GAVE her DH - he recently sold it and pocketed the money instead of using it to improve their situation.

I'm probably forgetting a ton of egregious details, but that's the basic gist.

[ty]

Pam Anderson filed bankruptcy after she ran up a home remodel/rebuild of close to 2 mil. After six months of not paying the bill she declared bk and was allowed to keep her home and all the work that was done to it.
Read story: gossip.whyfame.com/pamela-anderson-bankrupt-due-to-1-2-million-in-debt-821
I don't think that was right. They should have put her home up for sale and pay off the debts she stuck the builders with. Make her downsize if she files BK, the same for Donald Trump too. If he can't pay the bills, sell his businesses that he continues to keep to pay off his debts.

It seems more as if the rich file more than the poor folks do because they can afford a BK attorney to represent them.
The poor people can't afford an attorney and is stuck with the letter in the mail and the harassment calls. Where are the legal teams to help them file and get a free ticket out of debt?

[JustLurkin]

Is she anything like that CM

May 12, 2011 18:31:04 GMT -5 Firebird said:

Reader's Digest Version:

LOL, that's her. Only her truck driver boyfriend wouldn't marry her.

Right before the board closed her story unraveled pretty badly.

I wasn't even so sure it was even a "her".

[Sum Dum Gai]

Oh, yeah. It sounds like the truck driver boyfriend cheated on her or something. They're married, he's now a delivery driver, and not allowed to go back on the road. There was counseling involved but she won't talk about what happened.

[JustLurkin]

May 12, 2011 19:48:49 GMT -5 Sum Dum Gai said:

Oh, yeah. It sounds like the truck driver boyfriend cheated on her or something. They're married, he's now a delivery driver, and not allowed to go back on the road. There was counseling involved but she won't talk about what happened.

Ok, I'll take a stab at this one...pretending I believe the story at all ... won't come up until page 100 or so ... but if he was refusing to marry her, then suddenly they got married, he's no longer allowed to be on the road, and is desperate to go on an out-of-town trip ... sounds like he has a new baby and/or family somewhere.

[Deleted]

"Isn't pink cashmere one of those stories? (changed person, I mean)"

YES!!! I will be eternally grateful to the old money boards for what I learned there.

I filed Chapter 7 in 2009; I had around $50k in consumer debt, around $20k in medical debt. I found YM in late '07, finally *got it* in early '08. I started following the advice I saw there, but I eventually had to make one of the most difficult decisions I've ever made. I consider myself a person of integrity, so it was NOT easy to wrap my mind around the idea of not paying my debts. I'm not at all proud of having filed BK, but I do believe it was the best decision to be made at the time...... regardless of what other people may think.

2 years later, my automatic response to whether I have a cc is "No". But I do have one locked away, with a limit less than $1k. I know using it wisely could help improve my credit, but I'm too afraid of old habits dying hard, so I rarely use it.

For the first time in my adult life, I have no car payment. I'd never kept a car long enough to pay it off. I drool over the new Camaro, but absolutely LOVE having a reliable car that's paid for, so I'm cool. I'd never heard of an EF before YM, now I'm building one. It's kind of pitiful at the moment, but it's more than I've ever had. Before YM, I'd never thought to save for irregular expenses and the unexpected........... now I get to grumble when I have to pull the designated money out of the account to cover them. Then I usually decide that grumbling over spending cash is better than panicking because I don't have any. I'd been a credit junkie since I got my first cc in college........ everything I've paid for since sometime in '08 has been with cash. The only thing I've upgraded since I cut back in '08 has been my cell phone plan. I got a familly plan so DD could have a cell phone when she went away to college (I paid part of her tuition and her books with cash too lol). The cell bill still vexes me when I have to pay it, I'd gotten use to the much lower one. And I have 10% of my gross going to retirement again, with the strict understanding that the funds are FOR RETIREMENT ONLY.

I could probably get some credit if I tried hard enough, and Lord knows there's plenty of stuff I want. But the new me pays cash for what I want, even if that means I have to wait. I'm learning patience and discipline although they aren't things I'm good at.

So yes, some people do file for BK and really change......... if they really want to and have the knowledge they need. I'm still learning and have room for improvement but I absolutely have changed. I had to do the work, but posters on the old boards taught me what work needed to be done. THANKS!!

[blackcard]

That new Camaro three years from now will be a used one, with 30k miles on it for 1/2 the price. Start budgeting for it now. Life is too short to deny all your wants

[ty]

May 12, 2011 22:45:15 GMT -5 blackcard said:

That new Camaro three years from now will be a used one, with 30k miles on it for 1/2 the price. Start budgeting for it now. Life is too short to deny all your wants

It loses value the moment you drive it off the lot, and is then considered used. You don't have to wait 3 years.

[whoisjohngalt]

Pink,
AWESOME AWESOME job, posts like yours should be "pinned' to the top of the page so all newbies and some not-so-newbies can read it every day!!!!!!!

Not only you did the work, but you also listened to the harsh truth, and I think that's even harder than to do the work.

We should have some kind of YM awards going for people like you!

Lena