Florida: Koch Buys FSU's Academic Freedom

[moon/Laura]

May 11, 2011 11:59:42 GMT -5 shelby said:

go ahead and report me doesn't change the facts you so want to ignore.

how about the FACT that calling someone retarded is a personal attack shelby, which is against the CoC??

[shelby]

Yes dezi so true...I don't like the koch brothers and what they do so I am not surprised. I am surprised so many are fine with this and the board who accepted it. Where does it end? What are the people who support this thinking?

[shelby]

I know moon it was wrong I do regret it.

[cme1201]

Also worth noting he wants to make welfare recipients pay for their own drug tests

Which will be repaid when they have a positive result, the cost of a simple urine test is 25-35 dollars. That's not really unfair.

I have provided Federal Guidelines as to drug testing you have provided only hat air and speculation.

The facts are the facts, mine are printed in black and white and backs up my claims you say alot yet prove nothing.

[deziloooooo]

May 11, 2011 13:16:27 GMT -5 shelby said:

I know moon it was wrong I do regret it.

Then why not remove it and we move on..S happens, but it is easy to clean up, bit messy, but still, a little water, soap, holding ones nose, viola, all gone.

[cme1201]

I'd rather it stay, it's easier to ignore the juvenile comments and poster when you can see what they really think.

[deziloooooo]

May 11, 2011 13:19:46 GMT -5 cme1201 said:

I'd rather it stay, it's easier to ignore the juvenile comments and poster when you can see what they really think.

ok, but as I said, mistakes happen, S too, and to clean up the mistakes , if admitted, this was, and definitly the S, that has to go, health reasons if no other, to clean it up, way to go in my book.

[cme1201]

May 11, 2011 13:28:53 GMT -5 deziloooooo said:

May 11, 2011 13:19:46 GMT -5 cme1201 said:

I'd rather it stay, it's easier to ignore the juvenile comments and poster when you can see what they really think.

ok, but as I said, mistakes happen, S too, and to clean up the mistakes , if admitted, this was, and definitly the S, that has to go, health reasons if no other, to clean it up, way to go in my book.

A mistake happens once and you learn from it if it is done more than once, it is not a mistake.

[deziloooooo]

May 11, 2011 13:36:10 GMT -5 cme1201 said:

May 11, 2011 13:28:53 GMT -5 deziloooooo said:

ok, but as I said, mistakes happen, S too, and to clean up the mistakes , if admitted, this was, and definitly the S, that has to go, health reasons if no other, to clean it up, way to go in my book.

A mistake happens once and you learn from it if it is done more than once, it is not a mistake.

[EVT1]

May 11, 2011 13:16:36 GMT -5 cme1201 said:

Also worth noting he wants to make welfare recipients pay for their own drug tests

Which will be repaid when they have a positive result, the cost of a simple urine test is 25-35 dollars. That's not really unfair.

I have provided Federal Guidelines as to drug testing you have provided only hat air and speculation.

The facts are the facts, mine are printed in black and white and backs up my claims you say alot yet prove nothing.

You can argue all the facts you want- I have the law and precedent on my side.

Scotus:
489 U.S. 656

The last case in Florida cost them a 150K verdict and the policy was declared unconstitutional- in 2004. Nothing has changed but the governor. He's an obvious fraud and cares nothing about the law.

Are you that naive to think this about saving money? Since when has drug testing ever saved money? This is about 100K employees that would have the state random test them in clinics like his.

Drug testing is a waste of money and an insult to employees.

[shelby]

I will admit I have a hot temper and can be quite crass at times. I will take a few minutes before I post anything from now or I fully expect to be banned.

[EVT1]

Sounds to me like he violated his oath of office- as if it mattered to him in the first place.

[cme1201]

May 11, 2011 13:49:08 GMT -5 EVT1 said:

May 11, 2011 13:16:36 GMT -5 cme1201 said:

Also worth noting he wants to make welfare recipients pay for their own drug tests

Which will be repaid when they have a positive result, the cost of a simple urine test is 25-35 dollars. That's not really unfair.

I have provided Federal Guidelines as to drug testing you have provided only hat air and speculation.

The facts are the facts, mine are printed in black and white and backs up my claims you say alot yet prove nothing.

You can argue all the facts you want- I have the law and precedent on my side.

Scotus:
489 U.S. 656

The last case in Florida cost them a 150K verdict and the policy was declared unconstitutional- in 2004. Nothing has changed but the governor. He's an obvious fraud and cares nothing about the law.

Are you that naive to think this about saving money? Since when has drug testing ever saved money? This is about 100K employees that would have the state random test them in clinics like his.

Drug testing is a waste of money and an insult to employees.

Sure, like his. It is an insult to people who pay the state taxes so that state workers are not held to the same standard as private emplyed citizens.

[cme1201]

Drug testing is a waste of money

I agree that Drug testing is a waste of money. Though I doubt anyone who doesn't do drugs sees it as an insult.

[deziloooooo]

May 11, 2011 13:49:08 GMT -5 EVT1 said:

May 11, 2011 13:16:36 GMT -5 cme1201 said:

Also worth noting he wants to make welfare recipients pay for their own drug tests

Which will be repaid when they have a positive result, the cost of a simple urine test is 25-35 dollars. That's not really unfair.

I have provided Federal Guidelines as to drug testing you have provided only hat air and speculation.

The facts are the facts, mine are printed in black and white and backs up my claims you say alot yet prove nothing.

You can argue all the facts you want- I have the law and precedent on my side.

Scotus:
489 U.S. 656

The last case in Florida cost them a 150K verdict and the policy was declared unconstitutional- in 2004. Nothing has changed but the governor. He's an obvious fraud and cares nothing about the law.

Are you that naive to think this about saving money? Since when has drug testing ever saved money? This is about 100K employees that would have the state random test them in clinics like his.

Drug testing is a waste of money and an insult to employees.

How so ? To many people use em, besides being illegal, the fact is, if one is tested positive, knowing that part of the job offer is the fact that one is going to have to P in a cup and have the urine tested and still gets caught, they are users , thus a potential employee problem, and better to not hire then have to go through all the malarkey after wards that takes time , $, and potential losses for employer in poorly done work, even being libel for damages caused by drug addiction leading to negligence they the employer is libel for.

I see nothing wrong with drug testing and the only ones who raise the objection I believe might be ones who have a problem in this way, thus the objection. IMHO.

[AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP]

May 11, 2011 3:52:43 GMT -5 @lakhota said:

BTW, what the heck is going on in Florida. I've been noticing all sorts of articles. Here are just a few:

Florida GOP Passes Radical Overhaul Of Election Law, Jeopardizing Voting Rights Of Elderly, Military, Students

thinkprogress.org/2011/05/09/florida-voter-law/

Florida City Paying $2,500 A Day To Radical Union-Busting Firm To Stop Workers From Organizing

thinkprogress.org/2011/05/10/florida-city-union-busting/

Florida Bill Will Come ‘Between Doctors And Patients’ By Prohibiting Pediatricians From Asking About Guns

thinkprogress.org/2011/05/10/florida-gun-doctors-bill/

Florida's Rick Scott most unpopular of all newly elected governors

www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=439x96069

Florida Governor Rick Scott Rejects Funding for Tampa-Orlando Intercity Rail Project

www.thetransportpolitic.com/2011/02/16/florida-governor-rick-scott-rejects-funding-for-tampa-orlando-intercity-rail-project/

Florida Cuts Unemployment Benefits To Pay For Corporate Tax Cut

thinkprogress.org/2011/05/08/florida-benefits-corporate/

10 things you should know about Rick Scott

1. His firm, Columbia/HCA, pleaded guilty to 14 felonies and paid $1.7 billion in fines making it the largest fraud settlement in U.S. history.

There are 9 more...

www.examiner.com/liberal-in-orlando/10-things-you-should-know-about-rick-scott

I know, right! I LOVE Florida!! It gets better every day!!!

The more liberals whine, the more I know we are doing things right.

Don't like it? Move to California.

[AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP]

May 11, 2011 14:05:45 GMT -5 cme1201 said:

Drug testing is a waste of money

I agree that Drug testing is a waste of money. Though I doubt anyone who doesn't do drugs sees it as an insult.

Of course it's an insult. This is just a variation on the old, "Well, if you've got nothing to hide" argument against refusing a search or invoking one's Fifth Amendment rights.

But then, a government big enough to give you everything you want is a government big enough to take everything you have-- including your freedom.

[shelby]

I don't have a problem with drug testing I have a problem with a politician passing something that he personally stands to gain from. If in fact he does profit from such clinics. Every employer has the right to test for drugs my employer doesn't and we are a health and wellnes company I guess they see no need. have there been drug related incidences lately or just greed I think is what should be asked.

[deziloooooo]

May 11, 2011 14:14:09 GMT -5 AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP said:

May 11, 2011 3:52:43 GMT -5 @lakhota said:

BTW, what the heck is going on in Florida. I've been noticing all sorts of articles. Here are just a few:

Florida GOP Passes Radical Overhaul Of Election Law, Jeopardizing Voting Rights Of Elderly, Military, Students

thinkprogress.org/2011/05/09/florida-voter-law/

Florida City Paying $2,500 A Day To Radical Union-Busting Firm To Stop Workers From Organizing

thinkprogress.org/2011/05/10/florida-city-union-busting/

Florida Bill Will Come ‘Between Doctors And Patients’ By Prohibiting Pediatricians From Asking About Guns

thinkprogress.org/2011/05/10/florida-gun-doctors-bill/

Florida's Rick Scott most unpopular of all newly elected governors

www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=439x96069

Florida Governor Rick Scott Rejects Funding for Tampa-Orlando Intercity Rail Project

www.thetransportpolitic.com/2011/02/16/florida-governor-rick-scott-rejects-funding-for-tampa-orlando-intercity-rail-project/

Florida Cuts Unemployment Benefits To Pay For Corporate Tax Cut

thinkprogress.org/2011/05/08/florida-benefits-corporate/

10 things you should know about Rick Scott

1. His firm, Columbia/HCA, pleaded guilty to 14 felonies and paid $1.7 billion in fines making it the largest fraud settlement in U.S. history.

There are 9 more...

www.examiner.com/liberal-in-orlando/10-things-you-should-know-about-rick-scott

I know, right! I LOVE Florida!! It gets better every day!!!

The more liberals whine, the more I know we are doing things right.

Don't like it? Move to California.

Again , a blast from the past, "love it or leave it", so original, love the history lesson though, but really, so un original.

[cme1201]

May 11, 2011 14:20:57 GMT -5 shelby said:

I don't have a problem with drug testing I have a problem with a politician passing something that he personally stands to gain from. If in fact he does profit from such clinics. Every employer has the right to test for drugs my employer doesn't and we are a health and wellnes company I guess they see no need. have there been drug related incidences lately or just greed I think is what should be asked.

We pre-test, we have a 1 month test and randoms occasionally. Lots of problems can come from a construction worker high on the job.

[AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP]

May 11, 2011 14:20:57 GMT -5 shelby said:

I don't have a problem with drug testing I have a problem with a politician passing something that he personally stands to gain from. If in fact he does profit from such clinics. Every employer has the right to test for drugs my employer doesn't and we are a health and wellnes company I guess they see no need. have there been drug related incidences lately or just greed I think is what should be asked.

They don't have a "right" to drug test. They "may" drug test if enough qualified candidates permit it. Otherwise, we could simply choose to work for another employer.

I think it's quite the insult that many times before you're even made an offer, step one is to take a pee while someone else watches, or stands close by.

More people have to have respect for themselves, and know what THEIR rights are.

Government, quite literally, has NO RIGHT to drug test. It amounts to a search, and without a warrant issued by a judge presented with probable cause-- there's no ability (in the real world, it's different- government routinely violates the law, and our civil rights) legally for the government to do this.

Of course, the government doesn't have a legal right to transfer earnings from those who have earned it to those that haven't. So, once we went down this road, we pretty well sealed our fate.

[EVT1]

Unfortunately, the 4th amendment doesn't apply to private corporations, so they are free to degrade you at will. Statistics do show they are pretty much a waste of time- and considering the sheer number of state employees, it would be a giant waste of time and money. Question is how much are the damages going to be as soon as he is sued by the first fired employee?

Lot's of problems can come from drunk/high people on or off the job- Does drug testing prevent that? Probably not. Will it stop a bad accident? Probably not. Is it worth the invasion of privacy? Probably not.

[shelby]

Yes employers do have a right it is employment at will if you don't like it work some where else. I don't like the fact they are trying to test govermnet workers I am torn on this. I think there are certain jobs it is a good thing like school bus drivers or anyone who has the safety of others in their hands. But the intentions of some and govermnet intrusions are big factors here.

[floridayankee]

May 11, 2011 14:13:27 GMT -5 deziloooooo said:

I see nothing wrong with drug testing and the only ones who raise the objection I believe might be ones who have a problem in this way, thus the objection. IMHO.

What do you mean the police can't have a camera linked to your house...what do you have to hide?

Makes me cringe whenever I hear the "nothing to hide" excuse. Don't go down that slippery slope.....

So, I'll say that I don't do drugs (you'll just have to take my word for it) and I don't support random, unwarranted testing either private or public. In most cases, there is no need. I do support testing when there is a need such as a new hire or working in a position where "your" drug abuse could kill other innocent people.

We do random tests on drivers, a mandatory pre-hire test and a mandatory test after a workplace accident...no other time. In 10 years and many accidents, we have caught just one person after an accident with a forklift. I still can't honestly can't say it's a total waste of money because the fear of being caught and losing your job most likely cuts down abuse by some that might otherwise use.

[AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP]

May 11, 2011 15:02:26 GMT -5 EVT1 said:

Unfortunately, the 4th amendment doesn't apply to private corporations, so they are free to degrade you at will. Statistics do show they are pretty much a waste of time- and considering the sheer number of state employees, it would be a giant waste of time and money. Question is how much are the damages going to be as soon as he is sued by the first fired employee?

Lot's of problems can come from drunk/high people on or off the job- Does drug testing prevent that? Probably not. Will it stop a bad accident? Probably not. Is it worth the invasion of privacy? Probably not.

No, they're only as free as we permit them to be. If EVERY applicant simply said, "NO!" then things would change. But people with a job mentality seem to have a subservient attitude. Employers can only do what the market permits them to do.

Drug users have ways around this anyway. I think it's about control. I'm a cynic when it comes to both big business AND big government. I think the market needs to speak loudly with one voice that we just aren't going to roll over and be treated like livestock.

[AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP]

I do support testing when there is a need such as a new hire or working in a position where "your" drug abuse could kill other innocent people.

I would be fine with government regulation that severely punishes people who cause accidents as a DIRECT RESULT of their drug use as shown by their obvious, demonstrable impairment.

I'm just not for searches based upon suspicion of every single person.

In fact, if I were to let government step in-- and I don't think it should, btw, in spite of how distasteful I think drug testing is-- but if I were to permit government to step in, I'd step in on behalf of workers and say companies may NOT drug test.

Still, I think companies should be permitted to do what the market allows.

[EVT1]

A lot of companies are doing it because solely because their insurance carriers have bought into it. There is another ball of wax there with liability.

Back to FL- what good is randomly testing state employees? Is there some drug abuse crisis I am unaware of that requires spending the money to test them even if they could find a way around the law? Cost benefit please: Cost-FL taxpayers, Benefit- Rick Scott's companies- Oh I see how that works.

"One of the more popular services at Solantic, the urgent care chain co-founded by Florida Gov. Rick Scott, is drug testing, according to Solantic CEO Karen Bowling.

Given Solantic's role in that marketplace, critics are again asking whether Scott's policy initiatives - this time, requiring drug testing of state employees and welfare recipients - are designed to benefit Scott's bottom line.

The Palm Beach Post reported in an exclusive story two weeks ago that while Scott divested his interest in Solantic in January, the controlling shares went to a trust in his wife's name."

www.palmbeachpost.com/money/gov-rick-scotts-drug-testing-policy-stirs-suspicion-1350922.html

[lakhota]

I know Florida Republicans have a history of manipulating elections, but it sounds like things are getting much worse.

It appears Tea Party crackpots like Scott, West and Koch have totally hijacked the state.

I sure wouldn't want to live there...

[Value Buy]

May 11, 2011 18:22:34 GMT -5 @lakhota said:

I know Florida Republicans have a history of manipulating elections, but it sounds like things are getting much worse.

It appears Tea Party crackpots like Scott, West and Koch have totally hijacked the state.

I sure wouldn't want to live there...

Well, we also know Cook County Illinois Democrats steal elections and have even stolen Presidential elections, ala Kennedy in 1960. Do you want to live there?

[AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP]

May 11, 2011 18:22:34 GMT -5 @lakhota said:

I know Florida Republicans have a history of manipulating elections, but it sounds like things are getting much worse.

It appears Tea Party crackpots like Scott, West and Koch have totally hijacked the state.

I sure wouldn't want to live there...

Trust me when I tell you we don't want you voting here, so carry on.