OK for gays to marry on base?

[ugonow]

Navy says Navy chaplins can marry gays when it is legal in the state the base is in US Navy Gives OK for On Base Same-Sex Marriages
Tagged with: Chaplain Chief of Chaplains of the United States Navy Don't Ask Don't Tell Marriage Same-sex marriage
It would appear the Navy has decided to let same-sex couples in the Navy, get married in Navy chapels that are located on bases in state where same-sex marriage is legal, and will allow willing Navy chaplains to perform those ceremonies.

The changes came in the form of an April 13 advisory memo issued to all chaplains which said the Chaplain Corps was revising its Tier I DADT Repeal training manuals, which had previously indicated that same-sex marriages are not authorized on federal property.

Citing “additional legal review” by Navy attorneys, the Chief of Navy Chaplains, Admiral Michael Tidd said the Navy “has concluded that, generally speaking, base facility use is sexual orientation neutral.”

“If the base is located in a state where same-sex marriage is legal, then the base facilities may be used to celebrate the marriage,” added Tidd.

The admiral’s memo also gives Navy chaplains permission to marry same-sex couples – but would not force them to perform ceremonies if those ceremonies are not within the chaplains religious beliefs.

“Regarding chaplain participation, consistent with the tenets of his or her religious organization, a chaplain may officiate a same-sex, civil marriage: if it is conducted in accordance with the laws of the state which permits same-sex marriages or union; and if the chaplain is, according to applicable state and local laws, otherwise fully certified to officiate that state’s marriages.”

Said Lt Dan Choi, “This is an important step in our military’s work to manifest the American promise to all those who defend the American people. The military’s greatest weapon is its people; the equal treatment of all military families is critical to fulfilling our shared mandate to support our troops and their families.”


lezgetreal.com/2011/05/us-navy-gives-ok-for-on-base-same-sex-marriages/

[Deleted]

Navy says Navy Chaplin's should marry gays when it is legal in the state the base is in US Navy Gives OK for On Base Same-Sex Marriages

Again, I don't care either way if same sex people want to get married. I do think it's interesting that IF the base is in a state that allows same sex marriages they can get married but if it's not they can't. The reason that's interesting is because state laws don't necessarily apply on federal reservations. At 18 years old I could drink on base in a state where the legal drinking age was 21. So.....on THIS issue they have decided to follow state laws? Strange.

[Deleted]

I guess married gays with kids get to live in family housing? Geez, hope the kids are treated will be okay. Imagine the super straight people that may not want their kids to sleep over in a "gay" house. My limit with my kids was no sleeping over with or being transported by alcoholics or drug addict families, but some would put gays in that same category. Base housing is a pretty tight knit group.

[cme1201]

May 9, 2011 16:20:13 GMT -5 @krickitt said:

I guess married gays with kids get to live in family housing? Geez, hope the kids are treated will be okay. Imagine the super straight people that may not want their kids to sleep over in a "gay" house. My limit with my kids was no sleeping over with or being transported by alcoholics or drug addict families, but some would put gays in that same category. Base housing is a pretty tight knit group.

You would be surprised how open these communities are, most everyone on a military block that has been there for any time knows there neighbor.

It actually has no bearing on the article though, I am encouraged by the fact they are not demanding that the Chaplin's go against their religious views.

[billisonboard]

May 9, 2011 15:49:01 GMT -5 @oldtex said:

Navy says Navy Chaplin's should marry gays when it is legal in the state the base is in US Navy Gives OK for On Base Same-Sex Marriages

Again, I don't care either way if same sex people want to get married. I do think it's interesting that IF the base is in a state that allows same sex marriages they can get married but if it's not they can't. The reason that's interesting is because state laws don't necessarily apply on federal reservations. At 18 years old I could drink on base in a state where the legal drinking age was 21. So.....on THIS issue they have decided to follow state laws? Strange.

Q: What do you need to know about marrying if you're in the military?

A: If you are in the States (not assigned overseas), getting married as a member of the military is much the same as civilian marriages. You don't need advanced permission and there is no special military paperwork to fill out before the marriage. You simply get married according the laws of the state where the marriage is taking place after obtaining a marriage license off-base. usmilitary.about.com/od/familydomestic/a/marriage.htm

SOP. You have to get the marriage license from the state. If they won't give you the license for whatever reason, you don't get married on base. Not strange at all.

[Deleted]

It's like family, from what I hear. DMAFB in Tucson has AWESOME family housing. Newly constructed, 2 story houses, streets, parks, very nice for the families. As it should be for our warriors.

[BeenThere...DoneThat...]

<<< So.....on THIS issue they have decided to follow state laws? Strange. >>>

...agreed... (irrespective of bills' response)

[❤ mollymouser ❤]

As has been noted above, military chaplains conducting marriage ceremonies, like any other ordained clergy, are required to follow the laws of the state that they are in when the ceremony is to occur.

[billisonboard]

May 9, 2011 16:35:06 GMT -5 BeenThere...DoneThat... said:

<<< So.....on THIS issue they have decided to follow state laws? Strange. >>>

...agreed... (irrespective of bills' response)

The military has a process for marriage of service members already in place. Why change it simply because of gender of the two people?

[Deleted]

Do navy chaplains typically have to marry anyone who asks them?

[❤ mollymouser ❤]

Not if the marriage isn't in accordance with their religious beliefs, it seems. After all, some states let minors get married, and other states let cousins get married, and some clergy may refuse to marry people who were previously divorced or too young or cousins (for example) because their denomination doesn't permit that.

[henryclay]

The military has a process for marriage of service members already in place.

They do? You mean like _____(you fill in the blank)____ has a process in place for marriage of assosicates/members/employees already in place?

Tell us more. Please tell us more.

Well, just a hint of a link, anyway.

[billisonboard]

May 9, 2011 19:20:18 GMT -5 henryclay said:

The military has a process for marriage of service members already in place.

They do? You mean like _____(you fill in the blank)____ has a process in place for marriage of assosicates/members/employees already in place?

Tell us more. Please tell us more.

Well, just a hint of a link, anyway.

See reply #4.

[Mad Dawg Wiccan]

[henryclay]

bill's screwed up posts, (# 4 and 12), really do say it all. The military has no policy on marriage. The military simply follows state laws regarding "getting married".

The question of whether the military will allow itself to be drawn into disputes with individual state laws on how it handles same sex couples "after they are married" regarding traditional support services for married families has not been answered.

And it probably won't be answered until faced with one.

[ty]

YAWN, this was long overdue. Gays have been fighting and dying for our country, so they deserve to be married and pay taxes just like everyone else in America.

[billisonboard]

May 9, 2011 21:42:53 GMT -5 henryclay said:

bill's screwed up posts, (# 4 and 12), really do say it all. The military has no policy on marriage. The military simply follows state laws regarding "getting married".
....

Wow henry. Follow the bouncing ball.

OP states that the Navy indicated that base chapels will hold gay marriages when that chapel is in a state that allows gay marriages.

Reply #1 indicates it is "strange" that they would decide to follow state law.
Reply #2 and #3 were off topic.
My Reply #4 states that it is SOP (Standard Operating Procedure) for the military to follow the laws of the state in which the base is located.
My Reply #12 simply asks you to look at the link in #4.

Not sure exactly how that is "screwed up."

[Value Buy]

I guess it is no different than when you are overseas in the military, and you have to get a driver's license, based on the country you are stationed, to drive our military vehicles on their roads.
Makes sense about following state law, but still an oxymoron based on Federal law superseding state law, except when the Government says you have to follow state law.
Hmmn.

[billisonboard]

May 9, 2011 23:11:57 GMT -5 Value Buy said:

I guess it is no different than when you are overseas in the military, and you have to get a driver's license, based on the country you are stationed, to drive our military vehicles on their roads.
Makes sense about following state law, but still an oxymoron based on Federal law superseding state law, except when the Government says you have to follow state law.
Hmmn.

There are no federally issued marriage licenses.

[Deleted]

If you are in the military, you can still be married by whoever you want, right? So there is nothing that says you have to be married by the navy chaplain?

[billisonboard]

May 9, 2011 23:17:30 GMT -5 oped said:

If you are in the military, you can still be married by whoever you want, right? So there is nothing that says you have to be married by the navy chaplain?

Well, anyone who is legally authorized to perform a wedding in the state you are getting married in.

[ty]

May 9, 2011 23:17:30 GMT -5 oped said:

If you are in the military, you can still be married by whoever you want, right? So there is nothing that says you have to be married by the navy chaplain?

But the people in the military that are gay shouldn't have to go out and look for a Chaplin to marry them. If it is offered to the heterosexual men and women in the military, then it as well should be available to all the gay men and women that are serving our country as well.

[billisonboard]

May 10, 2011 0:46:53 GMT -5 @ty said:

May 9, 2011 23:17:30 GMT -5 oped said:

If you are in the military, you can still be married by whoever you want, right? So there is nothing that says you have to be married by the navy chaplain?

But the people in the military that are gay shouldn't have to go out and look for a Chaplin to marry them. If it is offered to the heterosexual men and women in the military, then it as well should be available to all the gay men and women that are serving our country as well.

I can't find the Navy Regulation on-line that would answer this situation directly. If Navy Chaplains were required by regulation to perform a wedding for any service member when asked prior to repeal of DADT, then they should not be allowed to say no if the service member is marrying someone of the same gender. If Navy Chaplains had discretion prior, they should still have discretion.

[BeenThere...DoneThat...]

<<< If Navy Chaplains were required by regulation to perform a wedding for any service member when asked prior to repeal of DADT, then they should not be allowed to say no if the service member is marrying someone of the same gender. If Navy Chaplains had discretion prior, they should still have discretion. >>>

...disagree... our military, and its Chaplaincy, is not static... if we cannot adapt to new "opposing forces," then we're toast...

[billisonboard]

May 10, 2011 8:47:47 GMT -5 BeenThere...DoneThat... said:

<<< If Navy Chaplains were required by regulation to perform a wedding for any service member when asked prior to repeal of DADT, then they should not be allowed to say no if the service member is marrying someone of the same gender. If Navy Chaplains had discretion prior, they should still have discretion. >>>

...disagree... our military, and its Chaplaincy, is not static... if we cannot adapt to new "opposing forces," then we're toast...

Marriage remains the same old battlefield, without regard for the gender of the two people involved. Heard a song once by a local duet, two gals. One sang a verse of problems she had with her boyfriend, the other a verse of problems she had with her girlfriend, back and forth a couple of times, and then in the final verse they decide the problems involved relationship not gender.

[BeenThere...DoneThat...]

May 10, 2011 8:55:40 GMT -5 billisonboard said:

May 10, 2011 8:47:47 GMT -5 BeenThere...DoneThat... said:

<<< If Navy Chaplains were required by regulation to perform a wedding for any service member when asked prior to repeal of DADT, then they should not be allowed to say no if the service member is marrying someone of the same gender. If Navy Chaplains had discretion prior, they should still have discretion. >>>

...disagree... our military, and its Chaplaincy, is not static... if we cannot adapt to new "opposing forces," then we're toast...

Marriage remains the same old battlefield, without regard for the gender of the two people involved. Heard a song once by a local duet, two gals. One sang a verse of problems she had with her boyfriend, the other a verse of problems she had with her girlfriend, back and forth a couple of times, and then in the final verse they decide the problems involved relationship not gender.

...I'll still disagree... love relationships remain an old battlefield... but the legalization of one is not...

...whoa-oa-oa... we are young... heartache to heartache, we say...

[billisonboard]

May 10, 2011 9:06:23 GMT -5 BeenThere...DoneThat... said:

...I'll still disagree...

Point of clarification please.

Are you saying that even if they did not have any right of refusal in the past, that they should be granted the right in the situation of same sex marriage?

[BeenThere...DoneThat...]

<<< Are you saying that even if they did not have any right of refusal in the past, that they should be granted the right in the situation of same sex marriage? >>>

...sure, why not?

[billisonboard]

May 10, 2011 14:23:40 GMT -5 BeenThere...DoneThat... said:

<<< Are you saying that even if they did not have any right of refusal in the past, that they should be granted the right in the situation of same sex marriage? >>>

...sure, why not?

First off, I would support them always having the choice to perform any particular wedding. I am sure that if, in the past, they were unwilling to perform interracial weddings, the military would be able to shorten the chaplain's career effectively. However, if there is a directive that chapain's will perform such marriages or be disciplined directly for failure to do so, that same standard should be applied for same sex marriages.

[BeenThere...DoneThat...]

May 10, 2011 14:38:18 GMT -5 billisonboard said:

May 10, 2011 14:23:40 GMT -5 BeenThere...DoneThat... said:

<<< Are you saying that even if they did not have any right of refusal in the past, that they should be granted the right in the situation of same sex marriage? >>>

...sure, why not?

First off, I would support them always having the choice to perform any particular wedding. I am sure that if, in the past, they were unwilling to perform interracial weddings, the military would be able to shorten the chaplain's career effectively. However, if there is a directive that chapain's will perform such marriages or be disciplined directly for failure to do so, that same standard should be applied for same sex marriages.

...which puts the federal government, via its common defense, in a position to violate the 1st ammendment... do you agree with their doing that?