cme1201
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Post by cme1201 on May 10, 2011 16:59:29 GMT -5
I'm actually willing to spend some of my tax dollars for cleaner air in California. Yet, my Florida money will also be invested on a project that will be a waste of said money. Looking at the way California handles it's budget, how long will it realistically take to pay back, taking into consideration construction delays, environmental concerns, road closures how hard will this affect business and travel until construction is complete.
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jkapp
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Post by jkapp on May 10, 2011 17:04:46 GMT -5
>>Wisconsin Gov. Scott Walker applied for $150 million in high-speed rail funding for upgrades to the Milwaukee to Chicago Hiawatha Amtrak rail line. However, the state applied for those funds after Walker rejected the $810 million that the federal government had allocated last year to establish a Milwaukee-to-Madison high-speed rail line.<< Why are they comparing these two things? They are two different things...one is to upgrade the trains on an existing track for $150 Million, and the other is to establish a completely useless track from Madison to Milwaukee from scratch for $810M (and the millions of dollars each year to maintain such a worthless track). That MAD-MIL rail needed to be scratched, the last thing a state with a $3.6B deficit needs is another tax drain - although the liberals love to waste tax money, as we all know...
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❤ mollymouser ❤
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Post by ❤ mollymouser ❤ on May 10, 2011 17:12:16 GMT -5
I'm actually willing to spend some of my tax dollars for cleaner air in California. Yet, my Florida money will also be invested on a project that will be a waste of said money. Looking at the way California handles it's budget, how long will it realistically take to pay back, taking into consideration construction delays, environmental concerns, road closures how hard will this affect business and travel until construction is complete.I don't think the money will ever be paid back.
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cme1201
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Post by cme1201 on May 10, 2011 17:14:42 GMT -5
Yet, my Florida money will also be invested on a project that will be a waste of said money. Looking at the way California handles it's budget, how long will it realistically take to pay back, taking into consideration construction delays, environmental concerns, road closures how hard will this affect business and travel until construction is complete.I don't think the money will ever be paid back. And that's my point.
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❤ mollymouser ❤
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Post by ❤ mollymouser ❤ on May 10, 2011 17:17:03 GMT -5
I think that's pretty much the point of all of us who think it's a big boondoggle
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 10, 2011 17:41:51 GMT -5
Does CA still use the older buses? It cost us a FORTUNE to switch out in Tucson, but we are in a valley and our air was getting BAD-- brown skies. Much better now, mainly, I think, because there is, unfortunately, no building going on to stir up the dirt like a few years ago when new home construction was booming. So, no telling if the new buses really help. Blue skies, pathetic economy? But can CA even afford new buses? Probably not with all the illegals you have to support. As long as CA holds on to so many liberal laws about illegals I don't see how you guys are ever going to get better. My Democrat LA school teacher friend agrees with me, and she is deep in the middle of the problem by location AND profession. Too bad they can't put the money in to new buses or something rather than the rail. Wouldn't create jobs, but it wouldn't create unsustainable maintenance either, and would help with the pollution. Rail won't do a bit of good if CA can't afford to operate it. Temporary job creator, like so much of the stupid stimulus turned out to be.
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deziloooooo
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Post by deziloooooo on May 10, 2011 17:56:38 GMT -5
Any one remember trolleys..I remember when they were phased out in New Haven and surrounding Townes..I think Philadelphia, has a kind of one, buses on wheels but powerd by electic hi lines, but I wonder looking back if that was a good thing or a mistake by elimination them. I know, limited by rail but wonder if a mix of the two as areas of population grew, also even on upkeep, New Haven had open air trolleys , only used for Yale Football Games, jump on, off, dad would take me downtown by trolley, just to use them, part of the experience and they were kept in pristine condition.
I think that was a big national mistake when all wanted o be modernized, not a lot of thinking to consider down the road needs .
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cme1201
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Post by cme1201 on May 10, 2011 18:02:42 GMT -5
How hard would it be as a drain on an overworked power grid?
The overhead powerlines would have what kind of "environmental" impact on birds in the area?
As has happened in "cluster groups" near electrical substations, what kind of health impact would the concentration of electricity, in central housing locations be?
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SweetVirginia
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Post by SweetVirginia on May 10, 2011 18:33:46 GMT -5
I was in LA a couple of times 20 years ago? I am not familiar with inter-city rail lines out there. I guess my real question is are Californians big users of public transportation? You guys are supposed to be free-spirits and what not; and value your freedom and ability to travel at will by hopping in your car. I live in Southern CA. and yes, lots of people use public transportation, especially those who live in the suburbs but work in LA. (they use the metro line) Also, since the recession began, more and more people are using public transportation. Public transportation is the main form of transportation for illegal immigrants and CA has the largest illegal population.
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Mad Dawg Wiccan
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Post by Mad Dawg Wiccan on May 10, 2011 18:37:04 GMT -5
<<The overhead powerlines would have what kind of "environmental" impact on birds in the area?>>
None. It's a single line, and a bird would have to touch both the line and a ground source to be electrocuted.
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cme1201
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Post by cme1201 on May 10, 2011 19:36:15 GMT -5
<<The overhead powerlines would have what kind of "environmental" impact on birds in the area?>> None. It's a single line, and a bird would have to touch both the line and a ground source to be electrocuted. One line per trolley, 2 trolleys run north south 2 run east west, intersections and turnabouts, it would require more than 1 line for an area like Philly or Boston to run an electric trolley system. The mass of electrical interference could have an impact on migratory habits or nesting.
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formerexpat
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Post by formerexpat on May 10, 2011 19:43:39 GMT -5
California needs a 200mph train - people can't get the hell out fast enough!
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Mad Dawg Wiccan
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Post by Mad Dawg Wiccan on May 10, 2011 19:44:53 GMT -5
<<The overhead powerlines would have what kind of "environmental" impact on birds in the area?>> None. It's a single line, and a bird would have to touch both the line and a ground source to be electrocuted. One line per trolley, 2 trolleys run north south 2 run east west, intersections and turnabouts, it would require more than 1 line for an area like Philly or Boston to run an electric trolley system. The mass of electrical interference could have an impact on migratory habits or nesting. Sorry, I was thinking along lines of electrocution, with one electrical line per rail line. Since the rail route coincides with the north-south migratory bird route and would be just a few yards wide, I doubt there would be a measurable impact.
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cme1201
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Post by cme1201 on May 10, 2011 19:50:07 GMT -5
Last study I have seen is from 2002 in EU, there determination about 500 birds are electrocuted each kilometer of line per annum, mainly by cheap power poles, not the wires themselves.
though you doubt there would be an impact I assure you, environmentalist will have a study, tying development up for years and millions if not billions in legal fees.
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❤ mollymouser ❤
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Post by ❤ mollymouser ❤ on May 10, 2011 19:51:28 GMT -5
I haven't heard that power lines were as much of a problem for birds as wind turbines. I don't think buses are a state purchase, or function ~ I'm pretty sure it's a local (City, County, Region) sort of thing. And, yes, they are expensive. And, no, no local government has spare money for new/more buses ... which is why I suggested using all those billions of federal boondoggle bucks.
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formerexpat
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Post by formerexpat on May 10, 2011 19:56:35 GMT -5
Oh wind turbines kill all sorts of birds and affect the habitat of animals in the area [sometimes killing them off too]. My buddy does research on those types of things and the effect on wildlife.
He used to be a liberal but it appears his policy views are coming to the center a bit since there is more common sense there [like nuclear instead of wind].
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Mad Dawg Wiccan
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Post by Mad Dawg Wiccan on May 10, 2011 20:06:45 GMT -5
The Enviro-Nazis are funny - they will support the train because it's "green", but they will oppose it because it means development. The CA Central Valley has a Mediterranean climate - cold wet winters with very hot dry summers. Most areas with heavy clay soil have vernal pools, created by winter rains which evaporate in the early summer. Nature has adapted by creating life which takes advantage of this short wet season, most notably a tiny crustacean called the Fairy Shrimp. According to the libs, it is an endangered species. However, try to do ANY development ANYWHERE and they will start screaming you are hurting the Fairy Shrimp. If it's so endangered, why is it freaking everywhere?
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Post by Deleted on May 10, 2011 20:09:53 GMT -5
Go tell them what you want, molly!!
(((Hey-- one off topic real quick and I'll stop--speaking of birds, etc--- this guy in Tucson had a break in his main water line. During the repair it was discovered that some rare lizard was nesting there. Environmentalists got involved... blahblahblah--- courts decided the guy had to wait until the lizard died or chose to leave to make the repair. He had to move out of his house that he OWNED!!! Geez-- hope that thing died by now so he could reclaim his property.)))
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Cookies Galore
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Post by Cookies Galore on May 10, 2011 20:50:07 GMT -5
Any one remember trolleys..I remember when they were phased out in New Haven and surrounding Townes..I think Philadelphia, has a kind of one, buses on wheels but powerd by electic hi lines, but I wonder looking back if that was a good thing or a mistake by elimination them. I know, limited by rail but wonder if a mix of the two as areas of population grew, also even on upkeep, New Haven had open air trolleys , only used for Yale Football Games, jump on, off, dad would take me downtown by trolley, just to use them, part of the experience and they were kept in pristine condition. I think that was a big national mistake when all wanted o be modernized, not a lot of thinking to consider down the road needs . Yes, Philadelphia has a number of trolley lines that serve West Philadelphia and parts of Delaware County. I work in West Philly, so I'll use the trolley to head into Center City. These trolleys run on street level tracks and share the subway tracks with the El (both go underground for a portion of their lines). My daily commute is on the high speed line and then the El. It's much quicker and cheaper than driving to work. It would be cool to have the old jump on, jump off trolleys.
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❤ mollymouser ❤
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Post by ❤ mollymouser ❤ on May 10, 2011 20:58:31 GMT -5
I once represented a farmer who was told to stop farming because the San Joaquin Kit fox was spotted on his lands, and there was a concern that the water-filled irrigation canals were keeping it from doing normal fox things (presumably hunting and making baby foxes.) Things were at impasse when, during a mediation, I jokingly suggested he offer to build little fox bridges all over the place so he could keep farming (almond trees and peach trees.) The other side agreed. So now he has the cutest little fox bridges scattered around his property ~ and no one has ever seen a fox use them. He even had his kids paint the bridges and install signs.
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Mad Dawg Wiccan
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Post by Mad Dawg Wiccan on May 10, 2011 21:27:23 GMT -5
I once represented a farmer who was told to stop farming because the San Joaquin Kit fox was spotted on his lands, and there was a concern that the water-filled irrigation canals were keeping it from doing normal fox things (presumably hunting and making baby foxes.) Things were at impasse when, during a mediation, I jokingly suggested he offer to build little fox bridges all over the place so he could keep farming (almond trees and peach trees.) The other side agreed. So now he has the cutest little fox bridges scattered around his property ~ and no one has ever seen a fox use them. He even had his kids paint the bridges and install signs. Reminds me of when Cal Trans spent umpteen millions of taxpayer dollars to build tunnels under I-80 near Davis so that migratory frogs didn't have to risk being squished by cars. The tunnels just turned into a Predator's Paradise.
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Post by ty on May 10, 2011 21:32:35 GMT -5
Yes... but at least these jobs would be for providing a useful service that benefits many, in the form of cleaner air in an already over-polluted region. Volcanoes and other natural disaster cause more harm and pollution than all the people on the planet combined. CA has imposed so many regulations on the people that one day they won't be allowed to fart in their own home, and yes, politicians are attacking farm animals for shitting and hurting the ozone layer. Read More: volcanoes.usgs.gov/hazards/gas/index.phpThis project they are creating will cause damage to the Eco system, destroy animal habitats, and the paint and other chemicals they will use to paint and build with is no safer than those in New Orleans in those trailer homes handed out by FEMA.
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Post by Deleted on May 10, 2011 22:06:50 GMT -5
Wow, molly! Neat story. I mean weird, but good for you for resolving it. The guy in Tucson was poor, no idea if he had good legal representation. But the lizard was underground, a real problem for him. It was in the papers and everything.
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Post by ty on May 10, 2011 22:21:17 GMT -5
California needs a 200mph train - people can't get the hell out fast enough!
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Post by Deleted on May 10, 2011 22:23:18 GMT -5
Now THAT is a funny LOL, Kreepy!!!!!
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