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Post by Deleted on May 9, 2011 15:30:28 GMT -5
CA can't POSSIBLY afford to maintain that, then. SO-- would the entire country then have to fund it through Fed taxes forever?? Or it just sits there rusting.........
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deziloooooo
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Post by deziloooooo on May 9, 2011 15:30:40 GMT -5
Interesting article I ran across while searching for cost per mile info on high speed rail a while back. www.thehispanicconservative.com/Madison/doyles-high-speed-rail-problem-cost-effectiveness.htmlIn 2000, Florida voters passed an amendment to the state’s constitution forcing the construction of a high-speed rail system that could run at speeds of 120 mph. Florida’s High Speed Rail Authority planned to build a 92 mile rail line from Orlando to Tampa. The project would cost about $2.5 billion, which represents $27 million per mile of track laid. Apparently, building a track for high speed rail in Florida is nearly 40 times more costly than building a highway of similar lengths. When the costs were revealed to Florida citizens, they repealed the measure.
In 2000, the California High Speed Rail Authority published a plan to build a rail line in the San Francisco Bay area (the plan itself cost $58 million). To build the rail line, it would cost anywhere from $33 to $37 billion, which is about $47 to $52 million per mile of track laid. The California high-speed rail system is estimated to represent $2.30 per annual passenger mile. This is still more than 3 times the cost efficiency of rural highways of similar lengths. Also, if building railroad track is roughly 3 times as costly as building highway, then the continuing maintenance costs should be similarly proportional. These examples are sufficient to support the conclusion that high speed transit is a flawed idea that liberals just can’t seem to let go. See that is your problem Florida and just about all the other conservatives posters here. I agree we middle to the left have a few, I admit it, but youse guys, brudder..give it a rest already, liberal this , that ..makes you barph. THIS middle to the left agrees with you, High Speed Rail, to many questions and I am afraid , just to expensive, in most areas of the country. Boston to Washington, being done now, so many people, they do travel it, also along the way, but once you stop , takes away from the high speed, possible make passengers jump as pass through statiions, lay out mattresses? Better to upgrade rail where it is now so still get faster commuting trains, straighten curves, better track, signals, gate crossings..might accomplish almost as well. Florida I always thought a Orlando to Miami run would be a more feasable place for thr high speed and not sure if High speed is needed, just up grade the service, more track, as the problem is freight always has the priority now over passenger. Never understood that , beyond more profitable, as as long as freight moves along fairly fast, gets there, some hours for most of it, what's the big deal. Prioity rush shipments, use trucks, air. Does the coal cars HAVE to be there in 18 hours, how about 22 hours? Not going bad, spoiling. ;D
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pappyjohn99
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Post by pappyjohn99 on May 10, 2011 6:28:48 GMT -5
So now it is a union thing? Is that why Scott Walker,governor of Wi., put in for some of the rail funds?
I call Bullsh!t. The first thing Walker did was kill the rail project in Wisconsin. Everyone Knew it would be a boondoggle and would cost us money in the long run.
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ugonow
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Post by ugonow on May 10, 2011 7:19:49 GMT -5
.After saying that,he ended up applying for the funds----Here are a few other sites if you still want to call bs --- www.google.com/search?q=scott+walker+rail+funds&rls=com.microsoft:en-us&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&startIndex=&startPage=1&rlz=1I7ADSA_enGovernor Scott Walker Snubbed: Request for Rail Funds Denied, WI on Hook for $150 Million By Patrick DePula Gov. Walker Rail Plan Derailed. During his gubernatorial campaign, Governor Scott Walker consistently labeled the $800 million Wisconsin received in federal high speed rail funds as a waste of tax payer dollars, an Obama Administration boondoggle, and completely unnecessary. Shortly after winning his election, he got his wish; US Transportation Secretary Ray LaHood happily took back the money allotted to Wisconsin and redistributed it to other states who actually desired to enter the 21st century, provide transportation alternatives and create jobs. Governor Walker then touted the loss of the money as a huge win for his administration, and the taxpayer. Fast forward a couple of months when our inept governor realized that the Milwaukee to Chicago Hiawatha line actually needs improvements, new train sets and 8 locomotives that would have been provided for with the original $810 million rail grant. So what does he do? He applies for $150 million in federal funds to, well, buy new train sets, replace locomotives, and upgrade the tracks. You canft make this stuff up. In a press release issued by the U.S. Department of Transportation, Secretary Ray LaHood said: gPresident Obama and Vice President Bidenfs vision for a national rail system will help ensure America is equipped to win the future with the fastest, safest and most efficient transportation network in the world,h said Secretary LaHood. gThe investments wefre making today will help states across the country create jobs, spur economic development and boost manufacturing in their communities.h In a conference call, LaHood avoided answering a question about whether Mondayfs decision was related to Walkerfs rejection of the original $810 million grant, which negated two decades of planning by previous administrations. But Secretary LaHood repeatedly used the word greliableh in describing the leadership of states selected for rail funding. WI State Rep. Brett Hulsey -D, Madison. State Rep. Brett Hulsey, D-Madison, quickly showered the Walker Administration with well-deserved praise: gThis announcement shows all our neighbors get federal train help but Wisconsin,h he says. gGov Walkerfs war on transportation choices pays off for our neighbors while our outdated train lines donft get the upgrades they need.h It appears that Rep. Hulsey is talking about Talgo, a Spanish high-speed train manufacturer that announced it would likely close and move its manufacturing facility, and the jobs that go with it, to Illinois shortly after completing the trains already ordered. Wisconsin taxpayers will now foot the bill to upgrade the Hiawatha line between Milwaukee and Chicago. This is the busiest inter-city passenger rail corridor in the midwest and well-used by both business and leisure travelers. In fact,Ridership on the Milwaukee-to-Chicago Hiawatha rail line has doubled in the past eight years, hitting a record 792,848 in 2010. The $150 million in upgrades the state will now need to self-finance would have paid for maintenance costs on the proposed high-speed rail line for nearly 20 years. Even the cost associated with the completely unjustified increased security measures at the Wisconsin State Capitol has now reached nearly $7 million in a matter of a few months. Yet Governor Walker derailed the train because it gmighth have cost that much in subsidies annually. More accurately, the federal government would have covered some, if not all, of the maintenance costs in contrast with Walker simply flushing money away to finance his personal palace guard. Sadly, while the rest of the midwest builds out high speed rail infrastructure with an eye toward the future, Wisconsin stays firmly planted in the 1950Œs. Thanks Scott.
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ugonow
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Post by ugonow on May 10, 2011 7:21:11 GMT -5
Wisconsin left out of latest high-speed rail funding allocation Published May 9, 2011 - BizTimes Daily Previous | 2 of 7 | Next The U.S. Department of Transportation today announced $2 billion in new funding allocations for high-speed rail projects throughout the country, but none of the funds are headed for Wisconsin. Instead, the funds are headed to build rail lines in Illinois, Missouri, Michigan, Minnesota and several other states as the Obama administration lays the groundwork for a national high-speed rail network. Wisconsin Gov. Scott Walker applied for $150 million in high-speed rail funding for upgrades to the Milwaukee to Chicago Hiawatha Amtrak rail line. However, the state applied for those funds after Walker rejected the $810 million that the federal government had allocated last year to establish a Milwaukee-to-Madison high-speed rail line. Walker said he rejected the federal funding for the Milwaukee-to-Madison line because the state could not afford the operating costs. Those annual costs were estimated at $7.5 million, but a federal reimbursement formula could have reduced it to as low as $750,000 per year. Walker said he supported funding to upgrade the Hiawatha line because he preferred to improve an established and successful rail line rather than attempt to establish a new line to a smaller market (Madison). The Hiawatha Service had 783,060 riders in fiscal 2010, up 6.1 percent from fiscal 2009. The previous ridership record for the Hiawatha was in 2008, when it served 749,000 riders. Walker’s proposed upgrades to the Hiawatha line would have include a new train maintenance facility in Milwaukee and would have reduced the state’s costs for a new train shed at the Milwaukee Intermodal Station. In addition, the state planned to purchase two additional train sets and eight locomotives. Midwest states that are receiving some of the high-speed rail funding include: Illinois, will receive $186.3 million for upgrades to the Chicago-to-St. Louis rail line. The upgrades will allow trains to operate at 110 mph on more than 220 miles of track. Michigan, which is getting $196.5 million for upgrades to the Chicago-to-Detroit rail line and $2.8 million for a new train station in Ann Arbor. The upgrades will allow trains to operate at 110 mph on a 235-mile section of track. The project will reduce the train travel time from Chicago to Detroit by 30 minutes, the DOT said. Minnesota, which is receiving $5 million to engineering and environmental work for the proposed Minneapolis-to-Duluth line. " www.biztimes.com/daily/2011/5/9/wisconsin-left-out-of-latest-high-speed-rail-funding-allocation
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Value Buy
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Post by Value Buy on May 10, 2011 7:51:00 GMT -5
For those of us in the central San Joaquin Valley, I don't know how much it would get used. We're a 3 hour drive to San Francisco, and a 4 hour drive to Los Angeles. While you can get around San Francisco somewhat using public transportation, I don't see your average businessman or tourist trying to do that in Los Angeles. As it is now, you can take Amtrak from my city to one of the SF area BART stations ~ but it's not a money-making route (or even break even route) for Amtrak. And that Amtrak ride takes about 5.5 hours .... for a trip you could drive in 3. High Speed Rail will be built, supposedly, in phases, and the concern is that we'll have multi-billion $$ tracks to nowhere smack dab in the middle of the state, when the government finally wises up and realizes how colossally expensive this is. Ah, but they will be able to use it as the new Underground Railroad to transport the illegals to the vineyards near Frisco, and the salad fields in the lower portions of the state. And San Francisco will then get the illegals to Oregon and Washington a lot quicker than from L.A. The Mexican cartels will save a bundle on moving the human cargo, and gasoline useage will decrease.
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Post by Deleted on May 10, 2011 8:05:03 GMT -5
I'm betting that just before they actually build something they will discover that a HS rail system will endanger a spotted owl (not THE spotted owls as a species but A spotted owl). When they call the project off they will find that most of the money will have already been spent on studies, etc.
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Frappuccino
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Post by Frappuccino on May 10, 2011 10:27:48 GMT -5
I can only speak for myself. I don't think I will be using this train. I live in Northern CA. I can get to Los Angeles (LA) in 5 hours if I drive at night. I usually use 1.5 tanks of gas one-way. If I am in LA with my car, then I don't have to bother with renting a car, returning a rental car, filling up the rental car before I return it, getting luggage from rental car to shuttle or cab and then to the bullet train, etc, etc.
I never fly to LA either when Southwest has their $39 specials (one-way plus taxes and fees). Because there is still the hassle of finding transportation once I am in LA, and transferring luggage place to place. And, airport security and parking turn a one hour flight into a 3 hour flight anyway. Also, is this train making several stops to pick up people or is it a straight shot to LA? If it is picking up people then it will take forever to get to LA. If it is a straight shot, then how long will it take me to get to the station, how long will security and luggage check in be?
These politicians should cancel the train and use the money for California's public schools which are suffering instead of pushing for tax increases that many people can not afford. Oh, and California Universities should stop taking out-of-state residents into our colleges before even taking California citizens first. I believe they are doing this so that they can afford to implement the dream act. I am so upset with the politicians here.
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Post by ty on May 10, 2011 10:40:31 GMT -5
California is broke, and yet they continue to waste and spend money they don't have and on projects they don't need. Sounds like Greece. Spend, spend, spend, and expect all others to bail you out.
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ugonow
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Post by ugonow on May 10, 2011 10:42:54 GMT -5
I think the many states that are using it to upgrade or maintain present systems are happy some states turned it down.......
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deziloooooo
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Post by deziloooooo on May 10, 2011 12:05:51 GMT -5
I can only speak for myself. I don't think I will be using this train. I live in Northern CA. I can get to Los Angeles (LA) in 5 hours if I drive at night. I usually use 1.5 tanks of gas one-way. If I am in LA with my car, then I don't have to bother with renting a car, returning a rental car, filling up the rental car before I return it, getting luggage from rental car to shuttle or cab and then to the bullet train, etc, etc. I never fly to LA either when Southwest has their $39 specials (one-way plus taxes and fees). Because there is still the hassle of finding transportation once I am in LA, and transferring luggage place to place. And, airport security and parking turn a one hour flight into a 3 hour flight anyway. Also, is this train making several stops to pick up people or is it a straight shot to LA? If it is picking up people then it will take forever to get to LA. If it is a straight shot, then how long will it take me to get to the station, how long will security and luggage check in be? These politicians should cancel the train and use the money for California's public schools which are suffering instead of pushing for tax increases that many people can not afford. Oh, and California Universities should stop taking out-of-state residents into our colleges before even taking California citizens first. I believe they are doing this so that they can afford to implement the dream act. I am so upset with the politicians here. I believe they take out of state for diversity AND they get to make some money on those types. I think Ct in State tuition , U-Conn, is about $20 thou a year, out of state $33 thou plus..don't hold me to the exact $ but in those line of figures.
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Post by Deleted on May 10, 2011 12:18:31 GMT -5
CA does not need diversity. The greatest social experiment fail in the entire country. Enough, all ready. How anyone can stand to live there any more is beyond me.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 10, 2011 12:20:37 GMT -5
Not to insult Californians. I'm really sorry what has happened to your beautiful state. I have a son there. Wish he would leave.
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Post by ty on May 10, 2011 12:21:39 GMT -5
They are going to spend all this money knowing they are already billions in debt, and instead of using the funds to create jobs for the people, how do they expect the people to use this system if they have no job to pay for the ride.
STUPID, STUPID CA at it as usual.
SPEND, Spend, spend... on another waste of a project imo.
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Mad Dawg Wiccan
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Post by Mad Dawg Wiccan on May 10, 2011 12:25:25 GMT -5
CA does not need diversity. The greatest social experiment fail in the entire country. Enough, all ready. How anyone can stand to live there any more is beyond me. Believe me, I wish I could leave. This whole stupid train idea was actually voted on and approved by the people..... most of whom live in LA and SF.
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floridayankee
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Post by floridayankee on May 10, 2011 12:36:17 GMT -5
In 2000, Florida voters passed an amendment to the state’s constitution forcing the construction of a high-speed rail system that could run at speeds of 120 mph. Florida’s High Speed Rail Authority planned to build a 92 mile rail line from Orlando to Tampa. The project would cost about $2.5 billion, which represents $27 million per mile of track laid. Apparently, building a track for high speed rail in Florida is nearly 40 times more costly than building a highway of similar lengths. When the costs were revealed to Florida citizens, they repealed the measure.
In 2000, the California High Speed Rail Authority published a plan to build a rail line in the San Francisco Bay area (the plan itself cost $58 million). To build the rail line, it would cost anywhere from $33 to $37 billion, which is about $47 to $52 million per mile of track laid. The California high-speed rail system is estimated to represent $2.30 per annual passenger mile. This is still more than 3 times the cost efficiency of rural highways of similar lengths. Also, if building railroad track is roughly 3 times as costly as building highway, then the continuing maintenance costs should be similarly proportional. These examples are sufficient to support the conclusion that high speed transit is a flawed idea that liberals just can’t seem to let go. See that is your problem Florida and just about all the other conservatives posters here. I agree we middle to the left have a few, I admit it, but youse guys, brudder..give it a rest already, liberal this , that ..makes you barph.Congratulations for being elected to speak for all "middle to the left" posters of the board Dezi. As spokesman for the "middle to the left" gang, I'd suggest you get in touch with the author of the article and "let 'em have it" for using that nasty word liberal. I said it was interesting for the numbers presented, not because some evil conservative bass turd use the word liberal (apparently some believe a word describing a political philosophy is a cuss word or something). I do find it curious.....one word is all you brought away from that article? Not too long ago, you argued for high speed rail and how it was absolutely needed. Glad to see you finally thinking about the costs / benefits Dezi...really I am. Take the emotion out of a situation and it allows you to look at it a lot clearer and a lot more objectively. And that is the major problem here in FL...too much urban sprawl. In most European countries that benefit from high speed rail, they have densely packed urban areas and vast open areas in between. The more stops you add, the less high speed rail makes sense. IMHO, it's like the difference of taking an express, non-stop elevator to the top of a 200 story high rise or another that stops every two or three floors. Gate crossings are dangerous as well. Thanks to the high prices of commodities, a town east of Tampa has had their crossing guards pillaged for the copper. That one is easy....CSX owns the world. We have a track behind our shop but we never used it because our largest distributor has a regional distribution warehouse in Lakeland. We can get it trucked in cheaper. A couple years ago, CSX told us we need to receive at least 10 rail cars per year or they were going to start billing us some ungodly amount for non-usage fees. This year, we're up to 25 cars...mandatory...dictated by CSX rail....or pay the fee...or pay to have the rails and switch removed (which would likely decrease the value of our warehouse).
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floridayankee
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Post by floridayankee on May 10, 2011 12:39:56 GMT -5
California is broke, and yet they continue to waste and spend money they don't have and on projects they don't need. Sounds like Greece. Spend, spend, spend, and expect all others to bail you out. Cost estimates according to that article I posted were $47-52 million per mile to construct. Using a round number of $50 mil, they'll get a whopping 40 miles of track out of FL's $2 billion in "lost" rail funds. Party like it's 1999 Kalifornia!!
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deziloooooo
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Post by deziloooooo on May 10, 2011 12:45:18 GMT -5
CA does not need diversity. The greatest social experiment fail in the entire country. Enough, all ready. How anyone can stand to live there any more is beyond me. Have you been there , just curiouse, to live , not passing through. I know some complain a lot here, ole ed not happy, , however I know relatives there, ex is there in a retirement area, S California, desert really, loves it, ok heat summer, but I am in S florida, no prob, your in AZ for lordy sake, summer there, give me a break and don't tell me about no humidity, 120 in the shade, walk around 1/2 naked here anyway, in summer, and also relatives in northern calif, living just fine. Diversity in a University, well you may not have experienced it or any of your family, but it is important, one of the things good universitys, colleges klook for when they put together their incoming classes, experience, learning from others, what the whole idea of educaion, higher learning is all about. Possible you didn't understand that, but it is important, plus as said above, they earn important $ by so doing, helps keep instate costs down.
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Post by Deleted on May 10, 2011 12:50:11 GMT -5
My son lives in LA, Dez. Yes, I have been there. Aside from going to do the tourist things, once, I would never go there again except to see my son. Terrible place to raise kids, as my son is trying to do.
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deziloooooo
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Post by deziloooooo on May 10, 2011 12:59:17 GMT -5
See that is your problem Florida and just about all the other conservatives posters here. I agree we middle to the left have a few, I admit it, but youse guys, brudder..give it a rest already, liberal this , that ..makes you barph. Congratulations for being elected to speak for all "middle to the left" posters of the board Dezi. In that case, as spokesman for the "middle to the left" gang, I'd suggest you get in touch with the author of the article and "let 'em have it" for using that nasty word liberal. I said it was interesting for the numbers presented, not because some evil conservative bass turd use the word liberal (apparently some believe a word describing a political philosophy is a cuss word or something). Not too long ago, you argued for high speed rail and how it was absolutely needed. Glad to see you finally thinking about the costs / benefits Dezi...really I am. Take the emotion out of a situation and it allows you to look at it a lot clearer and a lot more objectively. And that is the major problem here in FL...too much urban sprawl. In most European countries that benefit from high speed rail, they have densely packed urban areas and vast open areas in between. The more stops you add, the less high speed rail makes sense. IMHO, it's like the difference of taking an express, non-stop elevator to the top of a 200 story high rise or another that stops every two or three floors. Gate crossings are dangerous as well. Thanks to the high prices of commodities, a town east of Tampa has had their crossing guards pillaged for the copper. That one is easy....CSX owns the world. We have a track behind our shop but we never used it because our largest distributor has a regional distribution warehouse in Lakeland. We can get it trucked in cheaper. A couple years ago, CSX told us we need to receive at least 10 rail cars per year or they were going to start billing us some ungodly amount for non-usage fees. This year, we're up to 25 cars...mandatory...dictated by CSX rail....or pay the fee...or pay to have the rails and switch removed (which would likely decrease the value of our warehouse). Allways open to change Florida, my objection is the word lib. left, right, con..used just to damn much here and thus my out burst..I know it's a fluff zone, but after a while it gets old thus the outburst, to me keeps from really having intelligent , ok intelligent, a bit much, sorry, but how about civil discourse. Allways eem the paint brush to all discussion, all Libs, all cons, hell all one eyed jackasses more like it... Hi Speed, love it, sounds great, but like nuclear, forgetting the possible melt down, so expensive it seems, way beyond the norm, Seems China right now is running into that and I am sure their invironmental and court cases for emminent domain, taking property for use of..so much less , if any negative dialogue allowed, then ours, yet still billions in the red per quarter. "Thanks to the high prices of commodities, a town east of Tampa has had their crossing guards pillaged for the copper." S happens , think I read were man hole covers disappearing, selling for scrap some where, what you going to do when the inmates are out running free. "I'd suggest you get in touch with the author of the article and "let 'em have it" for using that nasty word liberal" Never said we don't have em either, didn't look back but think I mentioned it..but feel in a poker game, you could see my raise, and raise me again with yours and I would have empty pockets, and have to fold, playing table stakes, you have soooo many more of those types, here at least. ;D
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❤ mollymouser ❤
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Post by ❤ mollymouser ❤ on May 10, 2011 13:29:59 GMT -5
I can understand the APPEAL of high speed rail ~ fewer cars on the highways and a more environmentally friendly way to get to/from northern and southern California. But the REALITY and COST of high speed rail are my primary stumbling blocks to the California project. And the fact that the project will create, temporarily, a fair number of construction jobs doesn't, in my opinion, present a good enough reason for spending billions and billions of dollars when the nation (and the State) are up to their ears in debt.
For the money that's being spent/proposed, I can think of any number of alternative projects that would reduce the number of cars on the road, helping with our dwindling dismal air quality. In my City, it costs $1.25 to ride the City bus (one way) I can't help but wonder if there were federal funds to (a) make riding the bus free and (b) buying low-emission buses only; and (c) improving/adding routes to actually make it a better choice for working people .... that bus ridership here (in California's 5th largest city, a sprawling place) would skyrocket.
But no one asked me about how I'd spend Transportation Dollars.
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Post by Deleted on May 10, 2011 13:57:24 GMT -5
molly- Tucson bought new buses a few years ago that run on some alternate fuel. They are pretty nice. Unless you get behind an old one pulled out of the bone yard for a breakdown you would never know you were around a bus. Big difference. FREE bus rides?? We had an issue last year. Welfare people here get free bus rides. In budget cuts and changes we switched to 10 cents- 25 cents for welfare passes. They has an absolute cow, If you ever start that you will never get out of it.... I wonder if CA already has free bus passes for welfare. I bet it does... I'll go look. When our Gov broke down the cost of those rides compared to paid rides it was an incredible amount of $$$.
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Post by Deleted on May 10, 2011 14:05:53 GMT -5
Looks like CA maybe just does low income passes for students, maybe. We do it for everyone. It is costly.
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pappyjohn99
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Post by pappyjohn99 on May 10, 2011 14:06:17 GMT -5
ugonow- The high speed rail funds were intended to run a new line from Milwaukee to Madison. That was the only thing that the feds would allow the money to be used for. It was estimated that after completion the ridership of this line would only cover 20% of the operating cost. Wisconsin could not afford it. And it was estimated to create only 55 permanent jobs. 150 million for upgrades to an existing line to Chicago makes sense. This line is in the top 10 for Amtrack ridership. A new line with suspect financials does not.
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❤ mollymouser ❤
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Post by ❤ mollymouser ❤ on May 10, 2011 16:40:35 GMT -5
Krickitt ~ I agree that free bus rides would be costly ... but nowhere near as costly as High Speed Rail. ;D (Plus, look at all those nifty jobs for bus drivers and bus mechanics that would be created!)
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cme1201
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Post by cme1201 on May 10, 2011 16:43:42 GMT -5
Krickitt ~ I agree that free bus rides would be costly ... but nowhere near as costly as High Speed Rail. ;D (Plus, look at all those nifty jobs for bus drivers and bus mechanics that would be created!) jobs inevitably paid for on the backs of American tax payers.
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Post by ty on May 10, 2011 16:46:13 GMT -5
Krickitt ~ I agree that free bus rides would be costly ... but nowhere near as costly as High Speed Rail. ;D (Plus, look at all those nifty jobs for bus drivers and bus mechanics that would be created!) jobs inevitably paid for on the backs of American tax payers.
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❤ mollymouser ❤
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Joined: Dec 18, 2010 16:09:58 GMT -5
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Today's Mood: Gen X ... so I'm sarcastic and annoyed
Location: Central California
Favorite Drink: Diet Mountain Dew
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Post by ❤ mollymouser ❤ on May 10, 2011 16:46:51 GMT -5
Yes... but at least these jobs would be for providing a useful service that benefits many, in the form of cleaner air in an already over-polluted region.
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cme1201
Junior Associate
Tennis Elbow, Jock Itch, and Athletes Foot, every man has a sports life!
Joined: Apr 6, 2011 13:55:07 GMT -5
Posts: 5,503
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Post by cme1201 on May 10, 2011 16:48:11 GMT -5
Yes... but at least these jobs would be for providing a useful service that benefits many, in the form of cleaner air in an already over-polluted region. I refer you to message number 55.
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❤ mollymouser ❤
Senior Associate
Sarcasm is my Superpower
Crazy Cat Lady
Joined: Dec 18, 2010 16:09:58 GMT -5
Posts: 12,858
Today's Mood: Gen X ... so I'm sarcastic and annoyed
Location: Central California
Favorite Drink: Diet Mountain Dew
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Post by ❤ mollymouser ❤ on May 10, 2011 16:49:21 GMT -5
I'm actually willing to spend some of my tax dollars for cleaner air in California.
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