MN-Investor
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Post by MN-Investor on May 4, 2011 17:38:18 GMT -5
Another thread raises the issue of parents supporting their grown children.
But what about the reverse? What portion of adult children have to chip in to support their parents? Do your parents expect a handout? Do they want to live with you? Do you want them to live with you? Or are you young enough that the issue hasn't arisen yet, but you fear it may arise? Are your grandparents dependent on your parents?
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hoops902
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Post by hoops902 on May 4, 2011 17:44:28 GMT -5
"Do they want to live with you? Do you want them to live with you?"
I don't think they'd want to, I wouldn't mind if they did (too young to be an issue right now). Either way it has nothing to do with finances though, it would stricly be a lifestyle decision.
In my experience (watching parents and grandparents) the line always seemed somewhat blurry. My mom would often get groceries and bring them over to my grandmother, my parents had the money, she was living on fixed income. It was at least partially due to her not getting around very well, but I'm sure my mom simply paid for them herself without expecting any money back. I'm also sure my grandmother tried to pay her for them even if she couldn't really afford to. I could see the same thing happening with my parents and myself except they have a substantial retirement savings. I can't see them expecting it, and probably a fight to make them accept a gift like that on a regular basis even if they couldn't afford to pay for it themselves.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 4, 2011 17:50:41 GMT -5
I do think adult children are partially responsible for support of their parents. That doesn't have to be financial support, by the way. You can support your parents in a myriad of ways from taking them to doctors' visits to the grocery store.
I have a 98-year-old aunt who sort of raised my sister and me. There was money so she didn't support us, but she did provide a stable environment. I expect her daughter (my cousin) to provide "support" if she needs it. It was pointed out to me very clearly when my uncle (her husband) died, that we shouldn't "expect" anything. This was at the funeral, no less.
It gets complex, though, because, as I said, support is more than money. I refuse to take responsibility for her. It would be a money pit. If I did straighten everything out financially, my cousin would just inherit everything. What I do, though, is buy groceries when I visit at my expense, pay the phone bill occasionally at my expense, etc.
This is sort of like the parents supporting their grown children thread in that I do "gifts." Just don't count on them as monthly income.
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Post by tea4me on May 4, 2011 17:51:21 GMT -5
My parents would never want to depend on us children. Thankfully they worked hard and saved money so this would never happen. My mother passed away. My father has long-term care insurance because he does not even want us helping him with medical things.
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tskeeter
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Post by tskeeter on May 4, 2011 17:52:56 GMT -5
One of each. Will probably use gifts from my parents to assist in-laws.
Many similar family circumstances. Both sets of parents well educated. FIL is a chemical engineer with a JD. Mil has a BS. Dad has doctorate. Mom has MS. Both raised large families. Wife has 5 siblings, I have 4.
Differences. Wife's family has 5 girls = 5 weddings. My family has 2 girls, one of whom eloped. FIL worked for large companies until forced into an early retirement. Dad was an educator for 30 years, then became a small business owner. In-laws came from small families (1 sibling each), which lived comfortably. My parents are both from large farm families that struggled financially. In-laws lived well, with cruises, and nice vacations. My parents drove to visit relatives for vacation. FIL has had health issues for 45 years. My parents have been relatively healthy for the most part. Dad has a nice public employee pension. FIL has a much smaller private employee pension with SS.
Many factors probably contribute to the difference in wealth accumulation by each couple.
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midjd
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Post by midjd on May 4, 2011 18:26:21 GMT -5
This topic scares me to death, because my mom is 53 and had $15K in retirement the last time she mentioned it, which was about a year ago. The 2008-2009 market really spooked her so I don't even know if she's still contributing. She's spent most of her working life so far making just over minimum wage, so her SS benefits won't be very high. Her attitude is "I'll work until I die" but I don't know if she's considered the possibility that she might (physically) not be able to.
My brother and sister and I have discussed it in veiled terms and the idea seems to be that if she has to live with one of us, it'll be my brother (who is an excellent caregiver and gets along best with our mom) and DSis and I will help out financially. Hopefully this is quite a way down the line, but my mom is a smoker and a drinker so I worry.
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Mardi Gras Audrey
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Post by Mardi Gras Audrey on May 4, 2011 19:03:30 GMT -5
Midwestern,
Are you my sister? My stepmom is exactly like that (minus the smoking and drinking). I know that I will end up taking care of her and my dad but it will be a fight to get them to take anything. I am hoping that I can get some land and build 2 houses, one for me/my family and one for them. I plan on having kids so it would be great if they would be willing to provide DC while I pay all their expenses and provide $$ (This way it won't be as much of a fight... it will be them doing me a favor). My dad works in a very physical job and should be retiring in the next few years (can't afford it but should do it before he drops). Both of them are interesting people (have lots of unique hobbies and interests) and are great with kids so I wouldn't mind providing the $$ for them to relax and enjoy being retired.
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suziq38
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Post by suziq38 on May 4, 2011 21:26:43 GMT -5
I am so glad that my mom invested in real estate at the right time (during the 70's and 80's) and gets an income from her properties every month. She is supporting herself and my single sister who lives with her. She also gives my other sister and her two adult children 19 and 22 about $3K a month to help them out. I am glad that we don't have to worry. There will be a problem if Mom needs more care and the sisters don't want to give up Mom's cash. I remember the last time Mom was sick, she needed a night nurse for about 2 weeks so that my sister, who lived with her, could sleep. I think that the cost was $20.00 an hour, so $160.00 a day for 20 days. I think that the total bill was about $3,200.00. My sisters, who are living off of mom asked me who was going to pay the bill. I said "Mom is. She is primary. If nothing else gets paid, her needs are met first." They didn't like it, but they got the message. I also realized that my sister, who has always lived with my mom and never married, is worth a lot to her (my mom). My sister waits on her hand and foot. It is unreal what she has given up for my mom. Her services are worth a lot...$5K a month, perhaps? This is because my mother prefers to live at home rather than a nursing home. Since she can afford it, all the power to her.
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Post by gsbrq on May 4, 2011 21:36:32 GMT -5
I help support my folks. They have never asked for it, but I know their situation.
Currently I am looking for a higher-paying job because I have reason to believe their need is going to increase as they get older, and neither of my siblings is in a position to chip in. Either or both of my parents would be welcome here, although I'd prefer they not share our house (for the sake of my & my SO's privacy). A duplex or guest quarters would be ok. But they don't want to move out here, so I doubt it would happen.
My in-laws are in good shape financially, thank goodness, and are unlikely to need that kind of support. I have no idea what's going to happen when one of them becomes incapacitated, though. They may move to be nearer their older son, who isn't much help to them, but they don't want to move to Texas, so not a lot we can do about that.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 5, 2011 0:03:46 GMT -5
My mom oldest sister took care of my grandfather till he died. My stepfather father currently lives with my parents. He gets social security which covers some of his needs and they cover all the remaining expenses.
My parents and mother in law are financially stable enough that we would not have to worry about that, but I know my mother in law will eventually more in with us as she gets older.
As for my mom/step dad it might be the same case, my siblings and I will need to decide with whom. One thing for sure it will not be with my sister per my mom since they do not get along.
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Phoenix84
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Post by Phoenix84 on May 5, 2011 0:23:55 GMT -5
I have no desire to have my parents move in with me. I wouldn't let them live on the street, but our relationship is a lot better when we live separately.
Right now both they and I are too young for this to be an issue. My mother is 60 and dad is 59. Dad will get a decent, old school public employee pension. Their house should be paid off, and I know my mother got an inheritance that she's saved for retirement. They'll probably be okay and not require monetary help.
I'm not really in a position to do much for them as I live several states away. Any "caretaking" will probably fall on my sister as she lives close.
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cronewitch
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Post by cronewitch on May 5, 2011 1:47:22 GMT -5
My mom has enough money but is 84 and doesn't drive since my brother sold her car and now she doesn't have a drivers license. She lives with my brother and his wife and pays a decent amount of rent that covers food. They have a housekeeper and lawn care and they do the cooking and laundry so mom is living easy. They do the grocery shopping and take her where she wants to go. She can walk about a mile a day so can walk to a couple of stores and she likes to dig up dandelions so she goes to the yard and does that an hour or two a day and picks up pinecones so the dogs don't chew them and cut their mouth.
I being the only daughter am sometimes asked to take mom some place like to a party my brother and his wife would find boring. On Sundays they play poker and sometimes I am invited to take her to Costco or something if she wants to do something while they are out or we take her out for dinner.
Mostly it is on my brother and his wife since they invited her to live with them. My brother is retired and his wife retires next month so they have time to take her to appointments and things. She can walk a mile so sometimes she asks to be dropped off at a store to shop and picked up later or once walked to a store and bought more than she could carry back so called and asked them to come get her. They are really good to her and are taking her on vacation with them. If they go to Spain and a Mediterranean cruise next year I will go visit her most days while they are gone and my nephew will too, his sister and her husband will go to Spain with them so someone has to feed the upstairs cat and dogs and mom doesn't do stairs. The upstairs cat lives under the bed, doesn't like the downstairs cat or the dogs or the people and only comes out to eat and use the litter box.
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qofcc
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Post by qofcc on May 5, 2011 8:26:11 GMT -5
My dad is 69 and he's working part-time again now after being let go from another part-time job last fall. I hope he'll be able to continue the part-time work for a few more years. He's a bit unsteady on his feet. First day on the new job he fell in the parking lot and scraped his leg bad and broke out in hives from the stress and embarrassment. He has no savings and I pay for him to be on our car insurance and cell phone plan. I also need to help with irregular expenses like car repairs, etc. At some point I expect he'll need to come live with us, but I'm trying to postpone it until we're in a house where he can have his own 1st floor bedroom & bathroom. He lived with us for a couple of months last year and it was stressful. He's on the waiting list for section 8 and some other income based senior housing.
My mom is 72 and I think she's ok for money. She had a big inheritance a few years ago. She lives near my sister and helps sis with the kids and let sis live with her for years after her divorce so if there is any help needed sis and her husband will be providing it.
My inlaws are comfortable financially. FIL is slowing down physically, but MIL is younger and was a nurse so I don't expect we'll need to do more than the occasional strenuous projects we currently help them with (taking down trees, etc.)
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on May 5, 2011 8:30:30 GMT -5
This situation where parents stay too long in the family home because going to senior living would make them unhappy is as selfish as not planning your estate so that it goes smoothly. Another poster is dealing with that right now.
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Wisconsin Beth
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Post by Wisconsin Beth on May 5, 2011 8:57:48 GMT -5
Another thread raises the issue of parents supporting their grown children. But what about the reverse? What portion of adult children have to chip in to support their parents? Do your parents expect a handout? Do they want to live with you? Do you want them to live with you? Or are you young enough that the issue hasn't arisen yet, but you fear it may arise? Are your grandparents dependent on your parents? Currently, no one supports my parents or my ILs. Neither expect handouts. Nope, none of them want to live with any of their children. Nope, none of us want to live with them. My parents and my ILs are all in their late 60s/early 70s. There is 1 living grandparent left between DH and I - my grandmother. And she's pretty broke. Gift cards and cash are going to be the preferred presents for her from here on out. The good news is that there are a lot of us and if everyone kicks in a little, it will add up to a lot for her. She's in an apartment in a retirement community and her rent was just upped. I think my ILs will need help in the future. They don't have a lot of cash on hand and they don't have much in retirement accounts. My impression is that they're living on SS and that cash on hand. I don't think they're taking distributions yet but I could be wrong. My parents are comfortable living on their small pensions and SS. They're trying to determine what to do with their required distributions. They're doing some repairs to the house and some traveling so far.
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973beachbum
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Post by 973beachbum on May 5, 2011 9:00:34 GMT -5
DH's mother had a massive stroke 5 years ago at the age of 65. She has been in a nursing home ever since. She lost almost all function on one side of her body. She seems to be able to hear but can only say a few words. She has figured out how to work the remote with her left hand though. Because after the stroke she had lost her ability to communicate the court declared her incompetent. DH's brother and sister were put in as the guardians.
Before that she hadn't talked to DH in years. She didn't have much money but what she did have she had given to DH's brother and sister. Ever since she went into the nursing home guess who is paying the bills for her phone and cable?
My mom is in her 80's and is still doing well living on her own. DH's Dad is 70 and still in good health. It is always surprising how the youngest one is the one to have this type of thing first.
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Cookies Galore
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Post by Cookies Galore on May 5, 2011 9:18:46 GMT -5
I dread my mom getting older. My sister and I have a vague idea of what we'll do (Mom moves into her house and I'll help out with something or other), but whatever happens is going to cost us. Mom has $0 to her name (no EF, no retirement fund) and makes $14 an hour in a pharmacy. I don't even know if she has any insurance right now. She's 59 and in good health, but I dread the future. The woman has never saved a dime in her life, so every little thing that has happened has been a crisis (car repairs, etc.). When she was laid off in 2003 she cashed out her 401(k) instead of rolling it over. It "only" had maybe $5,000 in it, but even whatever it would have grown into today is better than the squat she has. When my grandfather died and my Mom got a few thousand from his estate, she took us all on vacation. Anytime she's had access to money, she's blown it.
I love my Mom, but I'm afraid she'll ruin me financially because she didn't plan.
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telephus44
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Post by telephus44 on May 5, 2011 9:23:25 GMT -5
Financially, my parents will be all set. I live closer than my sister, so I expect to be doing most of the care-taking.
My inlaws - well, they don't have a lot saved, and their retirement is based almost entirely on pensions and SS (he worked for GM and she was a nurse). They have a lot of health issues, and longetivity doesn't run in the family - so while I am worried about them not having enough savings to supplement their pension/SS, I also don't think they'll live so long it will become a real issue. If nothing else, their house is paid off and they could tap it if they had to. I also sincerely hope I don't wind up as the primary care-giver. They only had sons, and I'm the only DIL, but since they still have one son at home (aged 35) and another son that's a nurse living nearby, I hope that they pick up most of the care-giving.
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on May 5, 2011 9:25:18 GMT -5
They will unless you are willing to let them stick you with it.
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msgumby
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Post by msgumby on May 5, 2011 11:48:22 GMT -5
We have always assumed we would help out our parents if needed, but had been hoping it would take longer to be needed...
My parents are both in their 60s. Between my dad's pension and social security, they should each be able to count on enough income to not starve, but not live comfortably. My dad and step-mom are pretty good with money and recently moved to a much lower COL area, so I'm not too worried about him. My mom makes a lot of money, but can't seem to hold onto any of it. She is the type that lives paycheck to paycheck, even though she really shouldn't have to. Her HELOC used to be her emergancy fund, but that got cut-off 1-2 years ago (she's not underwater, but no longer has any equity). She also took out a massive car loan about 2.5 years ago (thankfully only a 3 year loan) for about 50k. She is of the mindset that if something costs more, it must be better (and so paid extra for EVERY available package to be added to her new lexus). Last year she ran into some tax troubles (self-employed and underwith-held on her taxes) and things went a bit crazy for a while. She was able to get everything caught back up in about 6 months, and then we were working on her emergancy fund. I'm not really certain where that emergancy fund went, because this year she has gotten herself back into tax trouble and needs more help... She has a small amount of retirement money saved up (a few hundred thousand, but the way she lives that won't last long) and is terrified of the stock market after the past 10 years. She is still planning on working until she is at least 70, but because she is self-employed, I'm mostly worried that she will get sick or unable to work and lose most of her income before planned. We have often loaned her money (she is always prompt about paying us back). She really never wants to be dependant on us, but the way she spends money, I don't see her retirement money lasting her very long.
I posted a while back about my DH side of the family (MIL in 50s, but with a small child, recently unemployed, and absolutely nothing to her name). We have helped her out a lot over the years, most recently covering a lot of divorce and education-related expenses. We always knew we would need to help her out, but we were hoping it wouldn't be until we were older.
I'm mostly worried about needing to take care of both our kids and our parents at the same time - that's going to be stressful... Given our parents ages, I had been hoping we wouldn't need to provide much parental support for a at least another 10-20 years, but things never go according to plan. We also have help on my side of the family (I have a brother who is financially responsible and would help if my parents really needed anything), but on DH side, his sister is still quite young and won't be able to help out.
My personal opinion on helping parents, is that while it's not required, it's just a nice thing to do. I may feel differently if I had parents who hadn't worked hard while raising us, but I don't see it as a problem to help them out after they've helped us out. I just get very frustrated when I try to help my mom budget and she can't see that $300 for a haircut is not a necessity...
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on May 5, 2011 11:56:46 GMT -5
They can see it if they don't have someone else pick up their bills so they can blow it on their wants. I cannot imagine giving my parents money for anything other than the normal gift giving occasions. They had years to work, to save, to get on track but chose not to. It's too much like the ant and the grasshopper but the grasshopper had fun while the ant worked. I have zero issue with letting the chips fall. my mom is having issues now with cd rates tanking but she still has rentals. If she wasn't still supporting a man/child, she'd be fine so i don't listen to her complain because she made her bed and now she gets to lie in it. Not taking me down with her.
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thyme4change
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Post by thyme4change on May 5, 2011 11:57:38 GMT -5
My Mom use to buy my grandma clothes and especially the "big ticket" clothing items like a winter coat, etc. I don't know if my Grandma didn't have the money or just refused to spend the money. My Mom also gave her $5k when she moved into a senior apartment. The money was the difference between her getting a studio and her getting a 1 bedroom apartment. I don't think there was any actual cash money left when Grandma died, but her house sold and after the expenses were paid (funeral, looming tax bill, etc.) I think my Mom and my Uncle split $60 or $70k. I can see being in the same situation with my Mom - she has money, but is either cash poor, or doesn't think it is necessary to buy new pajamas or whatever. I will buy her whatever she needs. She will hate every minute of it.
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on May 5, 2011 11:57:52 GMT -5
I'm getting that with DD and I resent it greatly. I pay for her needs so she can blow money on her wants. Not a happy situation.
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Clever Username
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Post by Clever Username on May 5, 2011 12:20:56 GMT -5
I'm getting that with DD and I resent it greatly. I pay for her needs so she can blow money on her wants. Not a happy situation. This resonates pretty well with a description of my Mother-out-law. We refused her requests for money and strongly refused her request to move in with us. I'm not funding your gambling addiction. I'm not funding your joblessness (so-called disability). I'm not going to make my family available for emotional abuse. She's already squandered two nest eggs sufficient to get her through retirement. She's already sold her paid for house and spent the proceeds. She's got a new condo and I'm not sure how she's making the payment. She did not respond well to this message.
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on May 5, 2011 12:23:28 GMT -5
They don't like it when the money flow gets cut off and usually that is when you realize that is all you were to them.
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dancinmama
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Post by dancinmama on May 5, 2011 12:23:31 GMT -5
Between DH and I, the only living parent is my mom. She is very well-off financially and has SOME health issues (who doesn't at age 85) and is still "with it" mentally, but is extremely dependent in other ways - mostly just wants attention (she always has), but it has gotten worse since my dad passed away almost (3) years ago. We all love her dearly, but none of us can handle being around her for too long because her interests and viewpoints about things just do not mesh with any of ours. She has already told us that she does not EVER want to leave her home. Even though we are all married, she expects one of us to come LIVE WITH HER when the time comes which could be at any time as she has already had a couple of mini strokes. Of all the children, I'm the one that can mentally handle being around her for longer periods of time. I don't think, however, that I could live with her and DH (as sweet and patient as he is) definitely could not. In addition, we live 45 minutes away and would not want our home sitting idle for what could be many many years (her mom lived to be 96). At this point, we have no idea what we will do if something should happen. My preference would be to have her move close to us so that I could split my time between helping her and still having some independence (mine not hers), but I don't think she would even consider it. When the time comes, maybe she'll change her mind.
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on May 5, 2011 12:28:25 GMT -5
She sure will if there's no other choice. It amazes me what some parents and some children think they are "owed."
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whoami
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Post by whoami on May 5, 2011 12:36:22 GMT -5
My parents are financially set. They will never spend all they have. My MIL is extremely frugal and I assume she has enough. I wouldn't have a problem with my mom living with us. I would take dad but he and I are exactly alike so we would probably butt heads occasionally. There is no way in hell I would ever allow my MIL to live here. As of now, she isn't even allowed to be in my house for more than 36 hours and DH has to be here to deal with her the entire time. I refuse to put up with her crap.
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gawgagranny
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Post by gawgagranny on May 5, 2011 13:28:57 GMT -5
My mom should be very well set financially (she's almost 73 and still owns & operates her own very successful business!) and has already said she doesn't want to live with any of her kids--although any of the 3 of us would take her in a heartbeat. I hope we don't have to make that decision for many more years to come as the women in her family tend to live into their 90's.
My MIL, on the other hand, has lived with DH & I for most of our marriage--she's been with us 4 1/2 yrs now--but she does have her own MIL apt. attached to our home and is financially secure. Our support for her is emotional, etc., not financial....but I can see the day coming when she will burn thru her $$ quickly when caretakers become needed, as she is one of those who "never wants to go to a home"...
ETA: my MIL will be 90 next year and I am the second wife of her only son...
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patchwork150
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Post by patchwork150 on May 5, 2011 17:26:14 GMT -5
It scares me that my mom is disabled and my dad has $0 in retirement savings. Mom is 54, dad is 51. There is only me and my little brother- who at 21 became a dad, and supports the baby mommie who has no job, no license, and plans to be a SAHM for the rest of her life. mom has had 3 strokes and has vasculitis and only 1 functioning kidney. dad has rheumatoid arthritis. Both have family histories of cancer- it's genetic on dad's side.
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