Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 22, 2011 6:24:18 GMT -5
My wife is thinking about leaving her job because what she thought to be a perfect fit for her is not working as well. She has come home many nights stressed out, crying, etc.
She started working there last September and she is worried that it might look bad on her resume, so might want to stick it out till eventually I get moved by my job again (so less job hoping). The other thing is she doesn't want prospective employers to call her current employer.
Honestly I am the one pushing her to find another job because while she is seriously in love with her job and the research/survey she is working on now... it seems her boss lives to make her live a living hell. She once embarrassed my wife in front of other people and the CEO called her in and asked her to apologize to my wife which she did. Front what it seems she has mood swings and can't seem to control her temper.
Anyway, I told her there is nothing keeping her to start looking around. She doesn't have to take any job (also my wife is extremely loyal and she feels leaving her current job would be a slap in their face) but she can browse and see what is out there and also she can ask them not to contact her current employer (can she do that?)
So... what would you guys think?
The Pro's: - short commute to work (10 minutes) - she loves her job - her research will look good on her application for a PhD program
Con's - Her boss is a total biatch!
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Post by Deleted on Apr 22, 2011 10:07:09 GMT -5
bump
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sheilaincali
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Post by sheilaincali on Apr 22, 2011 10:13:31 GMT -5
cawiau- here's my 2 cents... when I look at resumes I tend to look at how often they change jobs. I don't want to have to invest time and effort into training someone that job hops every 6 months to a year. Also if you are going to be relocating within the next year or less I would suggest she stick it out at her current job.
I know that it sucks- I have had some pretty horrible supervisors in the past. Encourage her to document her dealings with the Biatch Boss. I am betting that this woman is harassing more people than just your wife. It would be good to have some documentation in the event it all blows up into a bigger issue.
Plus the whole "don't contact my current employer thing" always raises a small red flag for me. There isn't really a graceful way to say "if they know I am looking it will cause problems for me" without it sounding like you are bad mouthing your employer. She is in a real tough spot and she has my sympathy. But if it were me, I'd probably stick it out if I could.
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Apr 22, 2011 10:16:16 GMT -5
Most of us have worked jobs we haven't liked with supervisors from hell. You suck it up until things change. Sometimes the situation changes and sometimes you change.
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Post by illinicheme on Apr 22, 2011 10:16:43 GMT -5
A few thoughts:
1) It seems a little soon to be looking for a new job after less than a year. It's expected these days to jop hop, but I think most companies would still like to see SOME stability (demonstrating that you have the ability to stick around for at least a couple of years, etc.)
2) When I was searching for a new job back in 2009, most of the companies I applied with had a "yes/no" box I could check for an answer to "may we contact your current employer"
3) There's lots of terrible bosses in this world. Learning to cope with this one may help her in the long run (not that you shouldn't look for a better job, but if this is your wife's first job out of school, I wouldn't give up on it too early).
4) When is she planning to apply to a PhD program? If it's within a year or two, I wouldn't bother with trying to job hop.
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Apr 22, 2011 10:22:25 GMT -5
As I recall you have a fair amount of debt due to school loans and other things. Since some of this is due to her spending and going to school, it is her responsibility to pay them as well as yours. This sounds like a "I wanna quit work and have a baby" thing. She may say that isn't true but down deep, the real world is hard and she has been sheltered from it. Now she isn't.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 22, 2011 10:48:07 GMT -5
Thanks everyone.
- It is possible that I might move next year for work which is why we think it might not be worth it for her to change jobs.
- She is applying for her PhD within the next 2 years depending on if we have to move or not. We are waiting for me to find out next year if I will need to move or not once my assignment is done.
Guess the general idea is for her to just learn how to deal with the boss and hang in there.
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Phoenix84
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Post by Phoenix84 on Apr 22, 2011 10:53:21 GMT -5
I concur with everyone else. It's best to stick with it for at least 1-2 years.
"As I recall you have a fair amount of debt due to school loans and other things. Since some of this is due to her spending and going to school, it is her responsibility to pay them as well as yours."
I agree. From your descriptions of her, she sounds like a spender. She should contribute to the family finances if she really wants the finer things in life. You should nudge her to find another job first before quitting this one.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 22, 2011 10:59:40 GMT -5
I know that it sucks- I have had some pretty horrible supervisors in the past. Encourage her to document her dealings with the Biatch Boss. I am betting that this woman is harassing more people than just your wife. It would be good to have some documentation in the event it all blows up into a bigger issue. From what my wife told me, her temper tamtrum/attitude and lack of respect for the people that work for her are well known. But she is a really smart leady and it seems her presence is crucial to the research they are doing now (Masters from Cornell, PhD from Yale) so they usually just deal with her and her boss might just get reprimand her here and there.
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NomoreDramaQ1015
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Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on Apr 22, 2011 11:08:42 GMT -5
I'd stick it out and learn to deal with the boss. If she loves everything about the job besides the boss AND it'll give her an advantage when applying for her PHD, she should learn to deal with the boss. The benefits outweigh it just based on the OP.
I worked with a huge ahole and basically I got around the stress by not playinng with him, if he wanted to chew me out I'd just say "You're right, I am sorry" and it totally deflated his sails because he wanted me to get upset/angry basically get any sort of rise out of me.
You can't run away from all of them. While you don't have to tolerate abuse, at the same time you need to learn to deal with aholes in the workplace eventually.
I checked out this book at the library:
The no asshole rule : building a civilized workplace and surviving one that isn't / Robert I. Sutton.
I suggest your wife read it, it's really insightful.
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raeoflyte
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Post by raeoflyte on Apr 22, 2011 11:18:13 GMT -5
If I were really unhappy I'd look for a new job even if it would look bad on a resume. Life is too short to come home crying every night (been there, done that).
I still agree that she should have a new job before quitting, but I didn't get from your post that she was trying to just up and walk out.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 22, 2011 11:26:42 GMT -5
If I were really unhappy I'd look for a new job even if it would look bad on a resume. Life is too short to come home crying every night (been there, done that). I still agree that she should have a new job before quitting, but I didn't get from your post that she was trying to just up and walk out. No she would try to find a job first before quitting which is where "do not contact my current employer" would come in. In case she doesn't find a job, it wouldn't put her current job in jeopardy.
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raeoflyte
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Post by raeoflyte on Apr 22, 2011 11:30:28 GMT -5
Forgot to add--when I was looking during my maternity leave I included a sentence on my cover letter that I was happy to provide current work references after our first interview. I spoke with a couple HR people that said it was reasonable request. I had other professional references that I could give out up front.
On applications I would put that they could contact my current employer, but also put in the notes to please wait until after the interview.
Why should I alert my job that I am looking, when I don't even know if I would want to work for your company.
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Firebird
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Post by Firebird on Apr 22, 2011 11:46:41 GMT -5
cawiau, my mom was in a job like this and my dad and I encouraged her EVERY DAY to leave. It's no good to work at a job that makes you miserable. It's just not.
But a few things come to mind here.
1) While I don't discount your wife's stress, is it possible that she is one of those people who simply doesn't like to work? If so, you need to help her figure out whether her hatred of this job is really due to the boss, or due to the fact that she could never be happy at any job.
FWIW, my mother is not a work-outside-the-home type by nature. She has an incredible work ethic which has pushed her to work all of her adult life (3 jobs in college, for starters) but she's never LIKED it. She LIKES to stay at home and take care of her family. That's the kind of job in which she thrives. And you know what? There is nothing wrong with being that kind of person or acknowledging that about yourself. Once you do, the chore is figuring out how to fit that into the lifestyle you want. Maybe she'll have to work for awhile, but then she can stay home with your kids and she just needs to suck it up for awhile.
OR maybe her boss really is a major problem and that's legitimately the entire issue here. That was the case with my mom - that's why we eventually encouraged her to leave. Working with a truly toxic person is a different issue from not liking to work in general. If that's the case, it's a different story. But from what I know of your wife, she likes to be taken care of and she has some entitlement issues. So I think that the question of whether she wants to work in the first place is a legitimate one here.
2) Don't let her quit in the heat of the moment without having another job lined up. She should start looking (quietly) now.
3) If she refuses to look for another job, I would seriously question how unhappy she really is. Actions speak so much louder than words. DF is supposedly unhappy with his job (actually, he's not - he's just unhappy with the way management is running things, which is totally legit but that's another story) BUT he's not unhappy enough to be hunting for a new one. And until he is ready to make the effort to job-hunt on his off-days and hours, I don't think he REALLY WANTS to change jobs. Because actions talk.
So suggest to her that she start knocking on some doors and see what she does. That answer will tell you a lot more than her coming home crying from work ever will.
And I don't mean to sound like a bitch - I honestly don't. I'm just going from my own experience here. When people are truly, truly unhappy with a specific situation, something changes. End of story. And I think it's in your interest to make sure that the "something" that happens isn't detrimental to your financial situation. Like me, you're in the process of getting into solid financial footing but you're not there yet. I think it's dangerous to allow a situation like this to fester, and potentially explode eventually, without doing everything in your power to find out what's really going on beneath the surface.
My $0.02.
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azphx1972
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Post by azphx1972 on Apr 22, 2011 13:54:38 GMT -5
IMO you really need to assess the situation and determine if the job really does suck so bad that it's impossible for a reasonable person to cope, or if it's a case of "the grass is greener on the other side" mentality. There's no way for a bunch of strangers on an anonymous message board to be able to determine that and give you valid advice.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 22, 2011 14:11:18 GMT -5
From a previous thread, I think your wife and I are in the same field. Part of the challenge is that job opportunities are fewer in number and most likely would be with an organization that knows the folks she is working with now. She can say "don't contact my current employer" all she wants, but it may not keep word from getting back to her department.
I spent 5+ years in a job I loved with a supervisor I hated, so I really can relate. If she can do most of her work independently and keep her head down and limit interactions with her supervisor, I'd try to keep my head down and suck it up. She can also try angling to move to another project with the same department, or what have you.
For as miserable as I was much of the time at my old job, I was fortunate not to have to deal with my supervisor too often. I gained a lot of knowledge and experience and contacts from the position, so in the end, I think it was worth it. I also recognize that as an over-educated know-it-all, I struggled with the transition from being a star pupil at school to being a glorified lackey at work. You are taught to challenge and debate with your professors, so it can be hard to just shut up and do it the boss's way because the boss said so.
Because my work is so central to my identity - lame as that sounds - I have a hard time letting stuff go when I know it could have been done better. So while my supervisor was a giant beeeyotch (and I have independent confirmation of that), I was part of the problem as well because I made too much of some of our conflicts.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 22, 2011 14:25:02 GMT -5
In my field, it's perfectly reasonable to request that prospective employers not contact your current employer. If you go to work for them and then they want to call and verify previous employment, fine. I'd be shocked if someone wanted to contact my current employer while I was interviewing elsewhere and I wouldn't allow it.
Does your wife have other people she could name as references? Former professors, former co-workers who now work somewhere else?
My feeling on the short tenure is that I'll give anyone a break if one of those shows up on a resume. If someone realizes the job is a bad fit and decides to cut their losses, it happens. A niece of mine changed jobs 4 months ago, leaving her first job out of college after 2 years. The new job isn't what she expected at all and she's very unhappy. Another company has approached her and she's seriously considering a move. I think that's a good decision but it better be right this time! Your wife should have a very good explanation prepared for the "what are you looking after so short a time?" question. Is Psycho Boss well-known in the field? If so, people may figure it out without interrogating her.
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Post by The Walk of the Penguin Mich on Apr 22, 2011 15:16:07 GMT -5
From a previous thread, I think your wife and I are in the same field. Part of the challenge is that job opportunities are fewer in number and most likely would be with an organization that knows the folks she is working with now. She can say "don't contact my current employer" all she wants, but it may not keep word from getting back to her department.
This.....and believe me, the field is remarkably small.
It's really in your wife's best interest not to burn any bridges, so she needs to be very careful right now.
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Post by alphayankee on Apr 22, 2011 15:23:11 GMT -5
I can kind of relate. I am in my fifth year with this company and I have hated it since my second week. My boss is a total b*tch, but I've learned how to work around her so we only butt heads a couple of times per year. First, I stuck it out because I didn't want to job hop. Then, I wanted to finish my MBA (paid for by the company). I graduated in December 2008, so we all know how far my prospects of new employment plummeted with the recession. I've been looking for about two years now and actually land an interview every few months. I've been in the final few a couple of times, but have yet to be chosen. It's been a pretty touch market in my industry, but things are starting to look up.
I have a 3-month stint at one company on my resume and it doesn't seem to have any negative effect. I'm able to explain it in such a way that doesn't reflect badly on me, in the rare instances where I am asked about it.
I guess it would depend how your wife would explain why she is looking after such a short time there. She doesn't want prospective employers to read between the lines and infer that she thinks her boss is hard to work with.
Most prospective employers do not get suspicious if employees do not want their current boss contacted. It's understandable that you don't want your current employer to know you are looking elsewhere. That's why there is normally a yes or no box on most applications. Now, if your wife has no other references, it would be difficult for the prospective employer to hire her without talking to someone she has worked for.
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azphx1972
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Post by azphx1972 on Apr 22, 2011 15:39:36 GMT -5
I think we've all had to deal with difficult coworkers/bosses at one point or another in our careers. I've worked with quite a few, but only once did I threaten to hand in my resignation to my manager's face. That act must have been pretty shocking to him, because I normally do not get worked up on the job. He apologized to me afterward (which is something he is not good at doing) for making an unfair characterization about my skills. Ever since that incident, I've found ways to avoid triggering his temperament, and we've gotten along pretty well. He pretty much trusts what I tell him and leaves me along for the most part.
Learning how to handle difficult people is an important asset that will serve you well both in your career and personal life.
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wvugurl26
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Post by wvugurl26 on Apr 22, 2011 17:59:01 GMT -5
If the field's that small then maybe it is wise for her to try and avoid the boss and come up with coping strategies. I came to hate my first professional job with a passion. Doubted my whole career choice and whether I wanted to continue in that field at all.
So all this led to me not really knowing what field I wanted to look for a new job in. I was also stuck in a place where I had no time off till I had been with the company for a year. I had a few exceptions where I was out for something I couldn't put off but I had to make up the time. Leading me to think I'll just make it to my one year then I'll have a year on the resume and vacation time available.
No coping strategy in the world was going to suddenly make me have the knowledge and skills of an experienced accounting associate. Manager had way too high of expectations for new staff that she knew had no experience. She worked all through college in the field and had that experience when she started, I didn't.
They gave you no training whatsoever other than this is how you open up our software. The most training the firm ever gave other than some tax stuff at the beginning of tax season was the week I got fired. And the partner made me go to that knowing he was going to fire me on Friday. Waste of my time for sure and time I'd spent planning meals for that training.
Its a good sign that a higher level boss is looking out for her. It can't hurt for her to brush up the resume and just casually look at what is out there. No need to apply for anything if she doesn't want to just get a feel for what's being offered. I think a stint of six months of so on my resume would have been preferable to having to say I'd been fired.
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formerexpat
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Post by formerexpat on Apr 22, 2011 19:59:59 GMT -5
Stick it out. I throw resumes away that are habitual job changers.
The CEO is at least aware of the situation and if the situation continues, then I'd suggest your wife speak directly to the CEO.
As others have said, we've all worked with difficult bosses and co-workers. It toughens you up and thickens your skin. Your wife can use that.
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qofcc
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Post by qofcc on Apr 23, 2011 9:31:38 GMT -5
It sounds like she's going to be leaving this job within a year or so to either move with your job or go back to school (or possibly have a baby). Sounds like she should make herself a countdown calendar and put it in perspective... I only have to deal with this crap for x more days. In the meantime, a seminar or book on dealing with difficult people could give her some tools for coping with the situation and perspective about how bad it is. She might even want to approach the HR department from the angle of wanting help making her job work out.
If all else fails she could start looking. Nobody expects to be able to contact your current employer for references. A co-worker at your current employer, maybe, but not the boss or the HR department. It sounds like she's been out of school and at this job for long enough that it would be a gap on her resume to leave it off in the future, so she might be better off working it out. If she had only been there a month or two, it would be easier to just quit and move on.
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daylight
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Post by daylight on Apr 23, 2011 13:53:03 GMT -5
I'll be honest with you and start with how I have *not* been surprised by your post. Your wife does have entitlement issues and this combined with a difficult boss is bound to lead to problems. I agree with Firebird that you need to find out what your wife really wants. If she is after all a home-making person, you should arrange your life accordingly. However, since she also took out student loans etc., I also agree with everyone else who pointed out that she should take responsibility for her actions, the form of which you two have to decide. Wasn't it last year that you agreed to pay back her student loans (together with her)? I agree that she could feel cushioned, which may easily bring her deeper wants and needs to light. Since other posts enlightened me and now I know that this is a small field, I'd say that she absolutely needs to learn how to deal with difficult people. She has all my sympathy, as I'm at my first workplace and my immediate boss is a sociopath. But...everyone has difficult bosses or co-workers, you just need to learn to deal with them. Immediate boss and I are on excellent (well, okay) terms since I learned to deal with him and he realized that he cannot do me in. I realize that it's hard to take this, esp. if you are in your first job and still green behind the ears, still very enthusiastic and all, but that's life. And I'm not saying this to be sarcastic. The truth is that she may move on to another company and face another difficult co-worker or boss. And while the difficulty you face may vary, it's still extremely useful to know that you can deal with anything. You also mentioned how her higher-up boss stood up for her, that's of course an excellent sign. I'd add two titles, Martha Stout's The sociopath next door and Roy Lilley's Dealing with Difficult People to her reading list. And...it's always worth to find out why the company keeps the difficult co-workers and learn said assets. I'm not sure how easily she cries, I've also been coming home crying at one point, but it's more proof of how her self-esteem is lacking, how extremely drained and defenseless she feels. You know her best, but to me this suggests that she feels absolutely helpless. Another point that occurred to me is that while your wife may feel that only her boss is the problem, she herself is inevitably part of the problem to a point. She can learn a lot about herself, see what it does to you if you open up too much/too little about your life at work, see what happens if you act too helpful etc. There are a lots of little things some people know instinctively or are prepared by parents/friends at some point, but lots of people have to learn things the hard way. She will pick up her defenses, learn a lot from this, and move on, eventually. Get the books, they really are helpful. I wish you the best.
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suziq38
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Post by suziq38 on Apr 25, 2011 0:09:54 GMT -5
She sounds miserable. I sympathize with her, but she needs to stick it out until you get a transfer. That is a good excuse to leave the job.
I would pretend to like the biatch. Just be professionally polite, even though the biatch hasn't been professional.
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