Channeling The Clash

[lurkyloo]

Jul 11, 2025 8:08:40 GMT -5 chiver78 said:

Jul 11, 2025 8:04:24 GMT -5 lurkyloo said:

Did you check whether you have a legal benefit through work? For ours we have to elect it during open enrollment though.

wouldn't this count as a qualifying life event, though? open enrollment requirements don't apply for that stuff, or so I thought. 

It would, but I think you would have 30 days after the divorce to make changes—can’t change things beforehand.  Not much help in paying for legal support for the actual event.

[chiver78]

fair point. worth asking about, though. 

[raeoflyte]

Jul 11, 2025 8:04:24 GMT -5 lurkyloo said:

Did you check whether you have a legal benefit through work? For ours we have to elect it during open enrollment though.

Not yet. I think there was an extra legal piece that I wouldn't have opted in for. I will check though.

I am going to work this weekend on Financials. When I say Ive been ignoring stuff, its worse than you think. But work on my taxes, gather year end documents, deeds, all the stuff that won't change.

I realized what I should do, but its really hard to wrap my head around. I should sell the house, buy dh out, and move into the triplex. I could live practically rent free there and I wouldn't even give away all of my retirement accounts. The hard part is its my childhood home I'd be selling. Financially life would stay the same/better as far as spending and be better for savings. But it also changes everything for the kids.

I could possibly take out a loan on the triplex, buy dh out, still move to the triplex and rent out current home. Then my mortgage payment would be paying off new loan, rent on current home would keep it self sustaining, maybe make money, and leave my options open in the future to better homeownership in this area. I'd be poor and changing everything for the kids.

I wish I could ask the kids what's more important to them, but sneaking it in seems manipulative.

[NomoreDramaQ1015]

We can get limited legal assistance through our EAP that might be something to look into.

As far as the houses I would sit down with a financial planner and go over all your thoughts.  While I can see wanting to take the kids into consideration remember that when they turn 18 they will fly the nest.  

Put your own oxygen mask on first financially.  Your kids will adapt to new living arrangements pretty quickly.  You have a lot more variables that need to be considered to make sure you are in the best position you can be as you get older.

I cannot speak for your kids but speaking for myself I WISH my grandmother had been more forward thinking in that regard.  Could have saved a lot of headache. 

[lurkyloo]

Jul 11, 2025 8:56:57 GMT -5 raeoflyte said:

Jul 11, 2025 8:04:24 GMT -5 lurkyloo said:

Did you check whether you have a legal benefit through work? For ours we have to elect it during open enrollment though.

Not yet. I think there was an extra legal piece that I wouldn't have opted in for. I will check though.

I am going to work this weekend on Financials. When I say Ive been ignoring stuff, its worse than you think. But work on my taxes, gather year end documents, deeds, all the stuff that won't change.

I realized what I should do, but its really hard to wrap my head around. I should sell the house, buy dh out, and move into the triplex. I could live practically rent free there and I wouldn't even give away all of my retirement accounts. The hard part is its my childhood home I'd be selling. Financially life would stay the same/better as far as spending and be better for savings. But it also changes everything for the kids.

I could possibly take out a loan on the triplex, buy dh out, still move to the triplex and rent out current home. Then my mortgage payment would be paying off new loan, rent on current home would keep it self sustaining, maybe make money, and leave my options open in the future to better homeownership in this area. I'd be poor and changing everything for the kids.

I wish I could ask the kids what's more important to them, but sneaking it in seems manipulative.

Devil’s advocate speaking:  how big an annoyance would it be to delay official legal things until Jan 2026?

Not ideal for sure, but it gives you time to get things straight in your head about what you can and can’t live with.  In the meantime you would need to collect financials and get things laid out anyway.  You might also ask your hr if it’s possible even as a non-participant to see what’s covered-both in terms of specific services and which lawyers would be available to you.  For mine there is a network where I search what kind of legal help I need in what zip code and it gives me local options.

(Too big an annoyance to make it worthwhile is a totally valid answer, btw-the important part is asking and answering the question )

[raeoflyte]

Jul 11, 2025 12:13:14 GMT -5 lurkyloo said:

Jul 11, 2025 8:56:57 GMT -5 raeoflyte said:

Not yet. I think there was an extra legal piece that I wouldn't have opted in for. I will check though.

I am going to work this weekend on Financials. When I say Ive been ignoring stuff, its worse than you think. But work on my taxes, gather year end documents, deeds, all the stuff that won't change.

I realized what I should do, but its really hard to wrap my head around. I should sell the house, buy dh out, and move into the triplex. I could live practically rent free there and I wouldn't even give away all of my retirement accounts. The hard part is its my childhood home I'd be selling. Financially life would stay the same/better as far as spending and be better for savings. But it also changes everything for the kids.

I could possibly take out a loan on the triplex, buy dh out, still move to the triplex and rent out current home. Then my mortgage payment would be paying off new loan, rent on current home would keep it self sustaining, maybe make money, and leave my options open in the future to better homeownership in this area. I'd be poor and changing everything for the kids.

I wish I could ask the kids what's more important to them, but sneaking it in seems manipulative.

Devil’s advocate speaking:  how big an annoyance would it be to delay official legal things until Jan 2026?

Not ideal for sure, but it gives you time to get things straight in your head about what you can and can’t live with.  In the meantime you would need to collect financials and get things laid out anyway.  You might also ask your hr if it’s possible even as a non-participant to see what’s covered-both in terms of specific services and which lawyers would be available to you.  For mine there is a network where I search what kind of legal help I need in what zip code and it gives me local options.

(Too big an annoyance to make it worthwhile is a totally valid answer, btw-the important part is asking and answering the question )

It could take us that long realistically. I just dont know how to balance the time frame with telling the kids.

[swamp]

Jul 11, 2025 8:56:57 GMT -5 raeoflyte said:

Jul 11, 2025 8:04:24 GMT -5 lurkyloo said:

Did you check whether you have a legal benefit through work? For ours we have to elect it during open enrollment though.

Not yet. I think there was an extra legal piece that I wouldn't have opted in for. I will check though.

I am going to work this weekend on Financials. When I say Ive been ignoring stuff, its worse than you think. But work on my taxes, gather year end documents, deeds, all the stuff that won't change.

I realized what I should do, but its really hard to wrap my head around. I should sell the house, buy dh out, and move into the triplex. I could live practically rent free there and I wouldn't even give away all of my retirement accounts. The hard part is its my childhood home I'd be selling. Financially life would stay the same/better as far as spending and be better for savings. But it also changes everything for the kids.

I could possibly take out a loan on the triplex, buy dh out, still move to the triplex and rent out current home. Then my mortgage payment would be paying off new loan, rent on current home would keep it self sustaining, maybe make money, and leave my options open in the future to better homeownership in this area. I'd be poor and changing everything for the kids.

I wish I could ask the kids what's more important to them, but sneaking it in seems manipulative.

As a former real estate attorney, I tend to be very Spock like over property. It may be your childhood home, but it’s still just a bunch  of wood, bricks, and cement. What is important is the memories. 

or, you can also look at it as giving another family the chance to make happy memories. 

[raeoflyte]

Jul 11, 2025 17:00:55 GMT -5 swamp said:

Jul 11, 2025 8:56:57 GMT -5 raeoflyte said:

Not yet. I think there was an extra legal piece that I wouldn't have opted in for. I will check though.

I am going to work this weekend on Financials. When I say Ive been ignoring stuff, its worse than you think. But work on my taxes, gather year end documents, deeds, all the stuff that won't change.

I realized what I should do, but its really hard to wrap my head around. I should sell the house, buy dh out, and move into the triplex. I could live practically rent free there and I wouldn't even give away all of my retirement accounts. The hard part is its my childhood home I'd be selling. Financially life would stay the same/better as far as spending and be better for savings. But it also changes everything for the kids.

I could possibly take out a loan on the triplex, buy dh out, still move to the triplex and rent out current home. Then my mortgage payment would be paying off new loan, rent on current home would keep it self sustaining, maybe make money, and leave my options open in the future to better homeownership in this area. I'd be poor and changing everything for the kids.

I wish I could ask the kids what's more important to them, but sneaking it in seems manipulative.

As a former real estate attorney, I tend to be very Spock like over property. It may be your childhood home, but it’s still just a bunch  of wood, bricks, and cement. What is important is the memories. 

or, you can also look at it as giving another family the chance to make happy memories. 

Part of me knows that. But the rest of me is so angry that he's going to fuck up even this for me.

The anger has been getting worse this week. Hopefully I can work through some of that this weekend.

[TheOtherMe]

I was very angry when my parents sold my childhood home.  I didn't care they did it so they could move near their grandchildren.  

I no longer had a place to go home.  My home was gone.  

It was hard to visit neighbors and not be able to go home.  

[raeoflyte]

My parents offered to gift me the money to buy him out. If you wondered if I come by codependence naturally now you know.

We haven't talked #'s but that would be hard to pass up. Still lots to think on.

[debthaven]

That's wonderful news raeoflyte ! Seems like a great solution, for the kids and for you. 

[finnime]

It would seriously help to accept your parents' offer, raeoflyte. The gift is also to their grandchildren, think of it that way.

[raeoflyte]

Jul 13, 2025 7:52:11 GMT -5 finnime said:

It would seriously help to accept your parents' offer, raeoflyte. The gift is also to their grandchildren, think of it that way.

I know, and I am eternally grateful to them for everything. I just feel bad and a like I've failed. They already helped us buy it once.

Today I work on getting things in order. Starting the financial process.

[azucena]

Can they easily afford it? If so, acknowledge that it's very generous and take it assuming there aren't strings attached.

My next door neighbor asked her husband for a divorce this weekend. Mostly tired of the mental load and he's also not been affectionate in over a year. She's done therapy, they've had some joint therapy but he's not willing to go solo to work on himself. Their son will start kindergarten this fall and they've been married 15 yrs. Pretty equal earners. He's a good dad but focused on the fun stuff.

Third family on our block. Not lost on me that all 3 of us are mid 40s and just over it. Other wife is a psychiatrist and outearns her husband. He's insisting on keeping the house and she moved out pretty quickly like I did.

[raeoflyte]

Jul 13, 2025 9:20:50 GMT -5 azucena said:

Can they easily afford it? If so, acknowledge that it's very generous and take it assuming there aren't strings attached.

My next door neighbor asked her husband for a divorce this weekend. Mostly tired of the mental load and he's also not been affectionate in over a year. She's done therapy, they've had some joint therapy but he's not willing to go solo to work on himself. Their son will start kindergarten this fall and they've been married 15 yrs. Pretty equal earners. He's a good dad but focused on the fun stuff.

Third family on our block. Not lost on me that all 3 of us are mid 40s and just over it. Other wife is a psychiatrist and outearns her husband. He's insisting on keeping the house and she moved out pretty quickly like I did.

They have the money, although knowing details I still think its a lot. But theyre great about no strings.

[Rukh O'Rorke]

Jul 13, 2025 10:24:59 GMT -5 raeoflyte said:

Jul 13, 2025 9:20:50 GMT -5 azucena said:

Can they easily afford it? If so, acknowledge that it's very generous and take it assuming there aren't strings attached.

My next door neighbor asked her husband for a divorce this weekend. Mostly tired of the mental load and he's also not been affectionate in over a year. She's done therapy, they've had some joint therapy but he's not willing to go solo to work on himself. Their son will start kindergarten this fall and they've been married 15 yrs. Pretty equal earners. He's a good dad but focused on the fun stuff.

Third family on our block. Not lost on me that all 3 of us are mid 40s and just over it. Other wife is a psychiatrist and outearns her husband. He's insisting on keeping the house and she moved out pretty quickly like I did.

They have the money, although knowing details I still think its a lot. But theyre great about no strings.

In addition to being helpful in general, I'm sure that they want to keep the house in the family as well.

[raeoflyte]

Jul 13, 2025 10:30:55 GMT -5 Rukh O'Rorke said:

Jul 13, 2025 10:24:59 GMT -5 raeoflyte said:

They have the money, although knowing details I still think its a lot. But theyre great about no strings.

In addition to being helpful in general, I'm sure that they want to keep the house in the family as well.

Definitely.

My mom: "You never sell the land!" Lol.

But they did make it a point to tell me its ok if I do. That they dont want or need the house and whatever is best for me is what theyll support.

[raeoflyte]

Jul 13, 2025 9:20:50 GMT -5 azucena said:

Can they easily afford it? If so, acknowledge that it's very generous and take it assuming there aren't strings attached.

My next door neighbor asked her husband for a divorce this weekend. Mostly tired of the mental load and he's also not been affectionate in over a year. She's done therapy, they've had some joint therapy but he's not willing to go solo to work on himself. Their son will start kindergarten this fall and they've been married 15 yrs. Pretty equal earners. He's a good dad but focused on the fun stuff.

Third family on our block. Not lost on me that all 3 of us are mid 40s and just over it. Other wife is a psychiatrist and outearns her husband. He's insisting on keeping the house and she moved out pretty quickly like I did.

If only someone had told these guys what they needed to do...

Oh wait...

I'm reaching scorched earth territory and dh is lamenting that he misses me. Yeah, I'd miss me too.

[NastyWoman]

Jul 13, 2025 9:20:50 GMT -5 azucena said:

Can they easily afford it? If so, acknowledge that it's very generous and take it assuming there aren't strings attached.

My next door neighbor asked her husband for a divorce this weekend. Mostly tired of the mental load and he's also not been affectionate in over a year. She's done therapy, they've had some joint therapy but he's not willing to go solo to work on himself. Their son will start kindergarten this fall and they've been married 15 yrs. Pretty equal earners. He's a good dad but focused on the fun stuff.

Third family on our block. Not lost on me that all 3 of us are mid 40s and just over it. Other wife is a psychiatrist and outearns her husband. He's insisting on keeping the house and she moved out pretty quickly like I did.

How weird is it that these lower earning males insist on "keeping/staying in the house". Over time I have read many times that this was the largest mistake women made in divorces, mostly because they wanted the kids to not feel displaced. That may or may not be true. However, (and I am going to sound very sexixt here) I wonder whether in these cases it is more a matter of keeping up the status symbol? The big house just shows how well they have done*... 

* this is just a rambling thought that has no bearing on the subject at hand. I'm just trying to unerstand people and, as so often is the case, failing.

[azucena]

My X can't forecast his future very well so sticking with what he knows is way easier. It's like that article someone posted about that being key to voters. Those that can't forecast more easily vote against their own best interests.

Friend's X redid most of their house himself when they bought it. Her salary paid for the mortgage and the supplies but he still feels more entitled. Friend didn't want to waste money fighting him and feels better about clean start.

[NomoreDramaQ1015]

I think there is probably some historical background that makes men feel like they are entitled to keep the house because for a very long time if you divorced men got EVERYTHING including often the children.  You were damaged goods and legally not entitled to one red cent of his hard earned money.

I also think there is some red pill talk going on reinforcing the idea women are going to rob you blind when you divorce therefore fight with all you have to keep your stuff even if it is to your detriment. 

[lurkyloo]

Couple of things: first, the housing market got a lot worse for buyers starting around 2019.  Between the great price run-up of 2020 and on and the mortgage rates doubling or tripling, it’s a game of musical chairs and everyone wants to stay where they are if they can rather than paying several times as much (both price and carrying costs) for a comparable “new” home. Of course, that’s not a slam dunk because you have to buy the other spouse out of the equity but you’re still ahead if you get to keep the old mortgage rates. Carrying costs of a new mortgage are going to be much higher (she says to the professional mortgage expert….)

Other thing: these cases in point are largely men who are getting divorced by spouses who are sick of having to do all the planning and managing.  They are always going to default to the path that demands less of them and buying a new house or even renting a new apartment is work 

Ironic a bit since the standard trope (as NastyWoman noted) is that the divorced lower-earning wife will try to keep the house at all costs, I think it’s attributed to being because she wants stability for the kids.  But in that trope I think it’s frequently the husband trading her in on a newer model…so maybe the lesson is that the one who is looking to move on is more willing to give up the house for a fresh start, while the one being left has trouble processing and accepting the change and tends to cling?

I dunno.  It’s all just sad.  Necessary but sad.

[lurkyloo]

As the lower-earning spouse, I would want DH to keep the house bc that damn pool is a ridiculous amount of maintenance and I’m not up to it.  I would need pool support along with child support to keep the house    

[raeoflyte]

A fresh start is definitely appealing. Even the idea of selling and moving to the triplex - cutting our square footage in half and sharing walls with neighbors, etc is enticing. But if my parents can help, I know I'll take them up on it. Gives me time.

It was a little easier to look at some projects and think about getting started on them knowing I'll very likely stay here. Said projects didn't happen this weekend but I thought of them and didn't feel like they were pointless.

[debthaven]

raeoflyte would you also be buying your ex out of the triplex (with your parents' help of course)? 

[raeoflyte]

Jul 14, 2025 10:08:15 GMT -5 debthaven said:

raeoflyte would you also be buying your ex out of the triplex (with your parents' help of course)? 

Yes. I do think there's an argument that its not marital property. The lawyer I consulted with said there could be a case either way. I still need to work up #'s and get appraisals ordered. I am feeling like he'd be leaving in good shape if he got the retirement accounts and a buyout on our house. Definitely good in the short term amd he could make it last long term.

[debthaven]

raeoflyte MIGHT it be worth "sweetening the deal" by letting him stay in the triplex for a pre-determined amount of time for little or no rent? 

I completely understand that you might not want that! But I thought it might be an additional "bargaining chip".

[raeoflyte]

Jul 14, 2025 16:24:11 GMT -5 debthaven said:

raeoflyte MIGHT it be worth "sweetening the deal" by letting him stay in the triplex for a pre-determined amount of time for little or no rent? 

I completely understand that you might not want that! But I thought it might be an additional "bargaining chip".

That was something I was thinking. I like the spin too.

[azucena]

Might be able to get it written into divorce agreement so the timeline of him moving on is more enforceable.

[raeoflyte]

I dont know what dh was trying to prove this morning. He and dc were having the 'where's my charger' convo that happens a half dozen times a day no matter how many chargers we have. Dc said I think its by your bed, and dh is playing dumb with 'what bed?' I think he's upset that the kids haven't noticed that he isnt sleeping in our bedroom anymore and he seems to try to push it.

But it actually helps me out because we're coming up to time to tell the kids. So I can use that a little bit to force his hand.