Channeling The Clash

[gs11rmb]

Is the triplex marital property?  It doesn't sounds so by your description.

If things are amicable there may not need to be a detailed arrangement about where the children live.  Your son sleeps at your house, unless your ex is available overnight.  Your younger child sleeps at your house until she is ready to be separated from you overnight.

Alternatively, your lives are about to change and he needs to stop working overnights and find a day shift job so that your son can stay with him on a more regular basis.  He doesn't sound like a bad person so would he really insist the younger child sleep at his house knowing her mental health challenges?

[raeoflyte]

Jun 27, 2025 11:44:11 GMT -5 gs11rmb said:

Is the triplex marital property?  It doesn't sounds so by your description.

If things are amicable there may not need to be a detailed arrangement about where the children live.  Your son sleeps at your house, unless your ex is available overnight.  Your younger child sleeps at your house until she is ready to be separated from you overnight.

Alternatively, your lives are about to change and he needs to stop working overnights and find a day shift job so that your son can stay with him on a more regular basis.  He doesn't sound like a bad person so would he really insist the younger child sleep at his house knowing her mental health challenges?

It is. Dh couldn't be on the loan or the deed with the rules at the time but we bought it with my parents.

He definitely wouldn't require dc to stay with him. Theyre just already at that age when parental relationships are tough, that I feel like it will be extra complicated if they dont live together. To azucena's point that really isnt my problem. But still on my radar for how we all get through this as intact as possible.

I dont think changing to days would be a good idea for dh. The shift differential comes out to $12k a year and he tried days and still slept during the day every chance he got. None of that is my problem- and he might try days. Nights for him is better for me though.

[raeoflyte]

There's also a world where we move into all units of triplex. Each of us with separate units, share the 1 bedroom as family space. Rent out current house. I honestly hate that idea even though logistically it kind of makes more sense.

[debthaven]

It does sort of make sense, but with DC at home for another 6 years, you need to think of yourself too raeoflyte

[raeoflyte]

Jun 27, 2025 12:44:27 GMT -5 debthaven said:

It does sort of make sense, but with DC at home for another 6 years, you need to think of yourself too raeoflyte

For sure. And I think thats why it has so little appeal. Lots off access but no privacy. Marriage counselor and I got a good laugh about that when going through options.

If nesting worked I could stay with my parents on my off time and Id love that. Give us some good time together when theyre nearing to much harder years.

Ill sit on if I'm making things more complicated. Guaranteed I am, but Ill give it some thought to getting rid of what I can.

[debthaven]

I hope your DH makes progress in processing things. 

[finnime]

You do have a lot of complicated scenarios as possibilities, raeoflyte. Given, though, that you and STBX are to be divorced, what would your ideal living situation be? If you can envision how you'd like it to be, then construct some parts of that into reality, you'd have something to go for.

[raeoflyte]

Things that will soon not be my problem.

Tomorrow is ds birthday. He has had 0 input in plans. So its just my family coming over for dinner. I bought ds present and dh was handling the cake and meal (I offered on the meal - repeatedly but he declined all offers of help). Dinner plans are in 3 hours. Dh is just now leaving the house to get groceries for dinner. Its a small get together but this makes me nuts.

I had to wake him up yesterday to help me with kid drop off/pickups at 2pm and all day today he keeps talking about how weird it is that hes so tired. But this is normal. Barely getting up, sleeping through alarms, always shocked by it is his normal.

He works nights and has health stuff so I've always made excuses for it, but I will be glad to not be wrapped up in it anymore.

[azucena]

In retrospect, it's amazing what I made excuses about and how often. I had to be fully ready to see it and actually act on it I guess. Talked to him about logistics when I picked up dd12 yesterday and felt no emotions at all. I guess that's the tradeoff of taking so long to be ready to leave. Makes this transition part a lot easier.

[geenamercile]

Jun 30, 2025 8:37:15 GMT -5 azucena said:

In retrospect, it's amazing what I made excuses about and how often. I had to be fully ready to see it and actually act on it I guess. Talked to him about logistics when I picked up dd12 yesterday and felt no emotions at all. I guess that's the tradeoff of taking so long to be ready to leave. Makes this transition part a lot easier.

Yep... At least for me The following part was a big self-awakening, putting myself first, and just really enjoying me.

[raeoflyte]

Jun 30, 2025 8:37:15 GMT -5 azucena said:

In retrospect, it's amazing what I made excuses about and how often. I had to be fully ready to see it and actually act on it I guess. Talked to him about logistics when I picked up dd12 yesterday and felt no emotions at all. I guess that's the tradeoff of taking so long to be ready to leave. Makes this transition part a lot easier.

Absolutely. I remember back in January when I still just wanted another answer but once I made that choice its done.

[raeoflyte]

Dh sent more love you/miss you texts last night and a sappy meme this morning and then came outside with me when I was picking up dinner for no reason- just to he near me saying he wanted to give me a hug but knew I didn't want that. It wasn't even a great weekend so I dont know what he thinks changed between therapy on Thursday night and Sunday night. I'm not sending mixed signals.

So I got more stern in my requests for him to stop today.

[raeoflyte]

Hes still hoping he can fix things. He said he needed time to catch up to where I'm at, but he meant time to make me change my mind. Part of me is still angry about that. You've had the last 18 months of clear repeated communication that if you wanted to throw yourself into it, that was the time, not to mention the previous 26 years before that.

Mostly I'm tired. I hate that I have to be the bad guy for him and the kids. Because whether he says it directly or not he'll make sure the kids know this wasn't what he wanted.

[finnime]

I think that should be part of your message to the kids: this is not what you wanted. But it is something that needs to be, because married partners should be in sync for the most part when it comes to working together and being together.

It may take him a very long time to reach acceptance. I'm sorry if that's the case. And when he does, as you've noted, he may be more difficult for a time.

[TheOtherMe]

I am so sorry, Rae.  I would explain to the kids that being miserable in a marriage doesn't mean you have to stay there.  

They have probably noticed things, too.  Kids see things.  

[Rukh O'Rorke]

Jun 30, 2025 22:05:06 GMT -5 raeoflyte said:

Dh sent more love you/miss you texts last night and a sappy meme this morning and then came outside with me when I was picking up dinner for no reason- just to he near me saying he wanted to give me a hug but knew I didn't want that. It wasn't even a great weekend so I dont know what he thinks changed between therapy on Thursday night and Sunday night. I'm not sending mixed signals.

So I got more stern in my requests for him to stop today.

Rae - this is so frustrating and I am angry on your behalf. He doesn't want to "give you" a hug - he wants to take it. he wants a hug, you don't and he really doesn't care that you don't.

He wants to keep pushing these hugs on you as if he is being nice to you! Think about if it was sex, it would be clear how coercive it is. 

He is being coercive, and I think you should flip the script on him and make him own this. Think about those old relatives pushing hugs and kisses on grossed out little relatives just because they want them and we are supposed to think it is affectionate.

We have wised up on that. I think you need to put up a mirror and reflect to him what he is really doing here. He might really know, but let him know you know!

[raeoflyte]

Jul 1, 2025 10:23:35 GMT -5 TheOtherMe said:

I am so sorry, Rae.  I would explain to the kids that being miserable in a marriage doesn't mean you have to stay there.  

They have probably noticed things, too.  Kids see things.  

I wish we could both honestly say that we will be better parents this way. Hes not going to get there anytime soon and I have to find a way to be ok with that.

I know the kids see the workload imbalance and they come to me for most things first. I do think theyll be surprised and how that reaction plays out we'll just have to see.

[raeoflyte]

Jul 1, 2025 11:37:28 GMT -5 Rukh O'Rorke said:

Jun 30, 2025 22:05:06 GMT -5 raeoflyte said:

Dh sent more love you/miss you texts last night and a sappy meme this morning and then came outside with me when I was picking up dinner for no reason- just to he near me saying he wanted to give me a hug but knew I didn't want that. It wasn't even a great weekend so I dont know what he thinks changed between therapy on Thursday night and Sunday night. I'm not sending mixed signals.

So I got more stern in my requests for him to stop today.

Rae - this is so frustrating and I am angry on your behalf. He doesn't want to "give you" a hug - he wants to take it. he wants a hug, you don't and he really doesn't care that you don't.

He wants to keep pushing these hugs on you as if he is being nice to you! Think about if it was sex, it would be clear how coercive it is. 

He is being coercive, and I think you should flip the script on him and make him own this. Think about those old relatives pushing hugs and kisses on grossed out little relatives just because they want them and we are supposed to think it is affectionate.

We have wised up on that. I think you need to put up a mirror and reflect to him what he is really doing here. He might really know, but let him know you know!

I think thats a good comparison. He thinks he's being affectionate but it is just to meet his needs.

Eta... I think thats a lot of his MO. Not malicious but self absorbed. When I asked him what he's done to support me over the years and he could only give examples of ways he supported the kids/us in ways he benefited from or that are just part of parenting. Everything is from his lense. He thinks that dc struggles are because of him. That dc is picking up on his deep sadness which is causing dc mental health struggles. Not that dc is their own person with their own journey.

[TheOtherMe]

The kids may not understand what they have seen now but will as they get older.

It took me many years for me to understand that the way my mom treated my half sister when she lived with us was not alright.  She treated her horribly and it was so obvious.  I was in junior high.  I saw it but I couldn't believe it.  I was in my 40's before I could admit to myself that my mom had mistreated her.  

Amazingly, my sister agrees with my opinion on this topic.  Yes, it was bad.  

It is what led her to get on a bus back to California and to further estrangement from our dad.  It didn't have to be the way it was.

[azucena]

Rae - keep clearly advocating for what you need and what you don't. Very clearly and maybe in writing like text so you can refer him back to it and there's no mishearing.

I'm sure several of us here can vouch for you trying and trying to work on this with him from your posts here thru the last few years. You've done the work and waited for him to figure out his part in it and to make real effort. Like you said, it's too late for him to turn it around. Even if he did a complete 180 emotionally and picked up closer to his half of the workload, you'd still question why he didn't do it sooner and if he can even sustain it. And you'd question that for good reason based on repeated past experiences.

[raeoflyte]

I dont know what to do about our vehicles. We have a 2008 toyota sienna and a 2008 Hyundai sedan. We both hate the Hyundai but it gets better mileage so its the commuter car and the van is the family vehicle. Neither can be worth much, but a used car that you know cant be measured by kbb values. It makes sense for dh to take the sedan although the insurance on it is ridiculous. But it feels like a dick move when I'll probably keep the house too to get the 'good' car too. Although if he gets all the cash he'll be in a better position for a new vehicle than I will be for quite a while.

I need to really split finances. Right now I pay all the big bills and he pays the random stuff. I gave up on dh with money and I've just done damage control for the last few years. I need to get those random things moved to make sure things like life insurance are paid. Of course now he wants to work together on everything. I should try to use that to my advantage but it is so frustrating.

This morning he asked about my ketamine appointment on the calendar. Since we did that together for couples counseling, he got his hopes up that I was doing it for us. I told him I set it up to help with my work stuff and I think it broke him. He's living in an alternate reality. I feel bad for him, but also get so annoyed and frustrated.

[raeoflyte]

And then there's the pets. We each have a dog and cat that we wanted/brought home. The cats are most affectionate with the kids. They all like the beast (dh's dog) best but only because he's quiet. He's definitely problematic but the kids would miss him. I can't imagine the kids managing without the cats but I guess they will.

And I'm over the chickens, or more aptly, I'm over the chickens rodents. Dh just brought home 2 more, and we got 1 egg from them. Nothing since in the last 3 + weeks. Im dreading dealing with them.

[gs11rmb]

I'd say let him choose the vehicle and offer to keep all the pets until he is settled in a place (if he's renting) that will accept animals.  He's clearly an animal lover too and the children will still see 'his' dog and cat when they are at his house. The chickens I would allow to die off and not replace.

ETA - if he's buying a place you can move the chicken coop to his once he's settled.

[geenamercile]

Jul 2, 2025 11:02:10 GMT -5 raeoflyte said:

I dont know what to do about our vehicles. We have a 2008 toyota sienna and a 2008 Hyundai sedan. We both hate the Hyundai but it gets better mileage so its the commuter car and the van is the family vehicle. Neither can be worth much, but a used car that you know cant be measured by kbb values. It makes sense for dh to take the sedan although the insurance on it is ridiculous. But it feels like a dick move when I'll probably keep the house too to get the 'good' car too. Although if he gets all the cash he'll be in a better position for a new vehicle than I will be for quite a while.

I need to really split finances. Right now I pay all the big bills and he pays the random stuff. I gave up on dh with money and I've just done damage control for the last few years. I need to get those random things moved to make sure things like life insurance are paid. Of course now he wants to work together on everything. I should try to use that to my advantage but it is so frustrating.

This morning he asked about my ketamine appointment on the calendar. Since we did that together for couples counseling, he got his hopes up that I was doing it for us. I told him I set it up to help with my work stuff and I think it broke him. He's living in an alternate reality. I feel bad for him, but also get so annoyed and frustrated.

It sounds like you may have the kids the most so the Van may be the better option for you between the two.  After my I had to get a new car, hit a deer my car was totaled, I got a little car that I figured would be great for me and could hold the girls.  Yea now my trailblazer (another new car due to a woman hitting me head on) is a much better fit for my life.  So my point, what ever car you do get may or may not end up being the best for you depending on what the future holds.  Figure out what choices you really need to over think, and which ones are- It really doesn't matter because it will work out either way in the end. 

With my ex, I kept and still have the bills in my name.  Our joint account became one just for those things that we both put money in.  He had a date to put his share in.  When he took over things like his car insurance/paid off his car we adjusted the amount that when in.  House payment and utilities are pretty much all that comes out of that one now, and he and ODD still put money in it.    

Rae- from my limited view, It really doesn't sound like you are going to be able to nest together in a healthy manner.   

[raeoflyte]

Jul 3, 2025 7:06:56 GMT -5 geenamercile said:

Jul 2, 2025 11:02:10 GMT -5 raeoflyte said:

I dont know what to do about our vehicles. We have a 2008 toyota sienna and a 2008 Hyundai sedan. We both hate the Hyundai but it gets better mileage so its the commuter car and the van is the family vehicle. Neither can be worth much, but a used car that you know cant be measured by kbb values. It makes sense for dh to take the sedan although the insurance on it is ridiculous. But it feels like a dick move when I'll probably keep the house too to get the 'good' car too. Although if he gets all the cash he'll be in a better position for a new vehicle than I will be for quite a while.

I need to really split finances. Right now I pay all the big bills and he pays the random stuff. I gave up on dh with money and I've just done damage control for the last few years. I need to get those random things moved to make sure things like life insurance are paid. Of course now he wants to work together on everything. I should try to use that to my advantage but it is so frustrating.

This morning he asked about my ketamine appointment on the calendar. Since we did that together for couples counseling, he got his hopes up that I was doing it for us. I told him I set it up to help with my work stuff and I think it broke him. He's living in an alternate reality. I feel bad for him, but also get so annoyed and frustrated.

It sounds like you may have the kids the most so the Van may be the better option for you between the two.  After my I had to get a new car, hit a deer my car was totaled, I got a little car that I figured would be great for me and could hold the girls.  Yea now my trailblazer (another new car due to a woman hitting me head on) is a much better fit for my life.  So my point, what ever car you do get may or may not end up being the best for you depending on what the future holds.  Figure out what choices you really need to over think, and which ones are- It really doesn't matter because it will work out either way in the end. 

With my ex, I kept and still have the bills in my name.  Our joint account became one just for those things that we both put money in.  He had a date to put his share in.  When he took over things like his car insurance/paid off his car we adjusted the amount that when in.  House payment and utilities are pretty much all that comes out of that one now, and he and ODD still put money in it.    

Rae- from my limited view, It really doesn't sound like you are going to be able to nest together in a healthy manner.   

I agree that we're not going to be able to nest. I know it, but am struggling with it. That's something we discussed even before having kids on how we'd handle things in case if divorce.

In the month since I told him he's stepped up a ton on house work - still limited - he's not dusting or cleaning the bathroom. He did get out the vacuum once, promptly told me it was broken and offered to buy a new one which is when I flipped the switch for carpet which magically fixed it. But he's still done a lot more compared to his baseline. What he hasn't done is anything as far as clearing out his office to set up a separate bedroom. He sleeps on couches, or on the crash pad. Whether thats intentional or overwhelmed avoidance, its what would actually help me and show me we could work together. I'd be dealing with stuff like that for years. And it would be cruel to him at this point. I'm certain I'm not sending mixed signals but he has a different story going in his head.

I brought up to him a couple days ago that sharing the house wasn't working which is when I realized that him asking for time to process is actually time to change my mind.

I dont want things to be contentious and even more expensive but if we cant communicate with each other, I dont see a way around that either. I had thoughts that we could self file, but will get on the phone with the lawyer I consulted with a little ways back.

This got more rambling than intended and I even took a good bit out. Just trying to get the extra stuff out of my brain so I can focus on what needs to get done.

[raeoflyte]

Dh has said whatever I want he will do. Which I dont believe, but I need to see if I can get this done. So Ill call the attorney tomorrow that I've already talked to, and try to get another referral for another opinion. I really want to hammer out as much as we can without lawyers if possible but need some advice.

I talked more to my parents and they dont feel like the triplex is marital property and if things get ugly I can probably push that angle. But it was intended as marital property. We just couldn't legally marry back then.

On the flip side he's never done anything with or for it. My parents put the down payment. The property itself is self sufficient. We contributed toward the mortgage when we lived in 1 of the units.

I was starting to think that I was over estimating his income and being really unfair to him, but he sent me a paycheck and he's making more than me. So any option should be as ok for him as possible.

[geenamercile]

I would think knowing your DH makes more than you, would ease some of the being fair worries in your head.  


I talked more to my parents and they dont feel like the triplex is marital property and if things get ugly I can probably push that angle. But it was intended as marital property. We just couldn't legally marry back then.  I hit something similar with the house with my aunt.  Technically she owns it and we rent it, so when we split they were more then willing just to have him leave.  However, it was always bought with the idea that we would pay it off to them and it was our house.  So in both his and my mind it was always marital property.  We came to the agreement that worked for us, and happily I never really had to test my morality with it.  Your tri-plex sounds as messy in that sense in different ways. 


Good luck talking to the lawyers.  

[resolution]

Jul 6, 2025 17:56:28 GMT -5 raeoflyte said:

Dh has said whatever I want he will do. Which I dont believe, but I need to see if I can get this done. So Ill call the attorney tomorrow that I've already talked to, and try to get another referral for another opinion. I really want to hammer out as much as we can without lawyers if possible but need some advice.

I talked more to my parents and they dont feel like the triplex is marital property and if things get ugly I can probably push that angle. But it was intended as marital property. We just couldn't legally marry back then.

On the flip side he's never done anything with or for it. My parents put the down payment. The property itself is self sufficient. We contributed toward the mortgage when we lived in 1 of the units.

I was starting to think that I was over estimating his income and being really unfair to him, but he sent me a paycheck and he's making more than me. So any option should be as ok for him as possible.

I think its a good idea to involve a lawyer asap. Having an objective third party to look at the data with you is important.

So far you have been bending over backwards to accommodate him and it seems like you are placing his financial interests way above your own. For example, you have been paying all the large bills while he just picks up extras, and you have also made all the contributions to the property that you are concerned about, but it turns out that he makes more than you. Has he been able to accumulate savings and retirement in separate accounts? I am concerned that if you negotiate an agreement with him privately it will come out entirely skewed to his advantage and that you won't notice until years later. I know he has substantial health issues and that you care deeply for him, but at the same time it is important to care for yourself.

[raeoflyte]

Jul 7, 2025 8:22:04 GMT -5 geenamercile said:

I would think knowing your DH makes more than you, would ease some of the being fair worries in your head.  


I talked more to my parents and they dont feel like the triplex is marital property and if things get ugly I can probably push that angle. But it was intended as marital property. We just couldn't legally marry back then.  I hit something similar with the house with my aunt.  Technically she owns it and we rent it, so when we split they were more then willing just to have him leave.  However, it was always bought with the idea that we would pay it off to them and it was our house.  So in both his and my mind it was always marital property.  We came to the agreement that worked for us, and happily I never really had to test my morality with it.  Your tri-plex sounds as messy in that sense in different ways. 


Good luck talking to the lawyers.  

What you did with the house though might be an option for us. If he'd be ok with my ownership passing to the kids it would cut down on how much I have to pay out to him.

Especially if he gets to live their nearly rent free for a while.

[raeoflyte]

Jul 7, 2025 8:48:55 GMT -5 resolution said:

Jul 6, 2025 17:56:28 GMT -5 raeoflyte said:

Dh has said whatever I want he will do. Which I dont believe, but I need to see if I can get this done. So Ill call the attorney tomorrow that I've already talked to, and try to get another referral for another opinion. I really want to hammer out as much as we can without lawyers if possible but need some advice.

I talked more to my parents and they dont feel like the triplex is marital property and if things get ugly I can probably push that angle. But it was intended as marital property. We just couldn't legally marry back then.

On the flip side he's never done anything with or for it. My parents put the down payment. The property itself is self sufficient. We contributed toward the mortgage when we lived in 1 of the units.

I was starting to think that I was over estimating his income and being really unfair to him, but he sent me a paycheck and he's making more than me. So any option should be as ok for him as possible.

I think its a good idea to involve a lawyer asap. Having an objective third party to look at the data with you is important.

So far you have been bending over backwards to accommodate him and it seems like you are placing his financial interests way above your own. For example, you have been paying all the large bills while he just picks up extras, and you have also made all the contributions to the property that you are concerned about, but it turns out that he makes more than you. Has he been able to accumulate savings and retirement in separate accounts? I am concerned that if you negotiate an agreement with him privately it will come out entirely skewed to his advantage and that you won't notice until years later. I know he has substantial health issues and that you care deeply for him, but at the same time it is important to care for yourself.

I might have to post your last sentence around my stuff as a reminder.

I really cant believe how stupid I've been about things. But just have to move forward now.