Roth 401k question!

[Rukh O'Rorke]

ok - my first 401k contribution as roth has gone through - alledgedly! but I can't see it! the full amount of the contribution was added to the fund in the 401k account that I have everything going to (which is now designated as 6% pretax, 4% roth plus company contribution). My employer clearly had me taxed me on the roth portion per my paystub.



In my inidividual accounts at brokerages, these are clear as seaparate accounts (401k rollovers vs roths),



Shouldn't the roth have a different account number, and separate totals?



Do any of you have roth options for the 401k and use it? what does the web site look like? My current company is with principal.

[minnesotapaintlady]

Not sure what their website is like, but with mine (Empower), you have to drill down a little to see the accounts all broken out, the overview has them combined.  I don't have separate Roth, but I can get down to where it has the Employee, Safeharbor, and Employer Match all split out from the total.

[Mardi Gras Audrey]

I have a 401k with both roth and traditional parts through TSP (fed govt 401k). For mine, on the mobile site it shows up as one big sum. If you click into the account for more detail, it has different balances listed for “pretax” and “after tax” (those aren’t the exact wording) and employer contributions.

It doesn’t show up like a different account like my IRAs do at vanguard.

Can you click on the account info for more details?

[saveinla]

Since it's under the same 401K plan, it wont have a separate account.
In my account under Sources, it shows as Roth Catchup since I have the excess amount for past age 50 contributed into the Roth 401k.

I see the following - Basic Before tax, Supplemental Before Tax, Company Match, Supplemental After Tax & Roth catch up.

I also see the breakdown saying Roth Contributions - and showing the details of contributions, balance and first contribution year.

[daisylu]

My 401 is with Fidelity and it shows the Roth as a separate line, but still included in total on the summary page. 

[schildi]

Look if you find something like "Sources" underneath the account.

[tcu2003]

Sept 28, 2024 12:02:17 GMT -5 minnesotapaintlady said:

Not sure what their website is like, but with mine (Empower), you have to drill down a little to see the accounts all broken out, the overview has them combined.  I don't have separate Roth, but I can get down to where it has the Employee, Safeharbor, and Employer Match all split out from the total.

Ditto this. Mine and DH’s are through Empower, and when looking at the landing page, it just shows the total. I have to go down a few levels to see how it’s broken out - it shows Roth, regular, profit sharing, etc.

[Rukh O'Rorke]

thank you all!

I had scoured the site repeatedly yesterday, to no effect. Since several people mentioned the 'source' info, I went there again but saw the same thing - contribution from salary and employer match broken out. But I looked more closely! and there was something underneath my contributions that I could click on - and low and behold! there it was!!

woohoo! I got Roth moneys going on again!

Have not contibuted to roth in a very long time due to multitudinous reasons accross the past 10 years or so....

Now filling out my spreadsheet after close tomorrow willbe a little mroe complicated....in a good way!

[Rukh O'Rorke]

anyone have info on how this works when rolling over?

[Regis]

Sept 29, 2024 11:21:49 GMT -5 Rukh O'Rorke said:

anyone have info on how this works when rolling over?

Pretty sure you can do a direct rollover to your own Roth IRA or to your next employer's Roth 401k, if they have one available.

[schildi]

Sept 30, 2024 8:24:04 GMT -5 Regis said:

Sept 29, 2024 11:21:49 GMT -5 Rukh O'Rorke said:

anyone have info on how this works when rolling over?

Pretty sure you can do a direct rollover to your own Roth IRA or to your next employer's Roth 401k, if they have one available.

Why would you do this rollover, any advantage besides potentially better investment choices?

[Rukh O'Rorke]

Sept 30, 2024 11:22:00 GMT -5 schildi said:

Sept 30, 2024 8:24:04 GMT -5 Regis said:

Pretty sure you can do a direct rollover to your own Roth IRA or to your next employer's Roth 401k, if they have one available.

Why would you do this rollover, any advantage besides potentially better investment choices?

I will rollover as soon as I sever employment.

yes - investments options and I do not like the company, think that are a bit shady. Whenever my contributions would go in, it would as early as 2 days before the pay day to 6 days after.

As you might imagine it was always on the day stocks were trading at the highest prices across that week-10day period. I complained to HR, to which the person just said "I'm sure they're not doing that." and that was the end of it.

Now, I could understand if things are variable along the electronic transfer, etc. but how on earth could it ever be days before payday even happened? I call shady!

[souldoubt]

Sept 30, 2024 12:02:41 GMT -5 Rukh O'Rorke said:

Sept 30, 2024 11:22:00 GMT -5 schildi said:

Why would you do this rollover, any advantage besides potentially better investment choices?

I will rollover as soon as I sever employment.

yes - investments options and I do not like the company, think that are a bit shady. Whenever my contributions would go in, it would as early as 2 days before the pay day to 6 days after.

As you might imagine it was always on the day stocks were trading at the highest prices across that week-10day period. I complained to HR, to which the person just said "I'm sure they're not doing that." and that was the end of it.

Now, I could understand if things are variable along the electronic transfer, etc. but how on earth could it ever be days before payday even happened? I call shady!

Do you work for a small Company and/or a plan that isn't audited?  Annually for our 401K audit we have to provide funding details for each contribution and would get dinged for too many instances of not uploading within a day or two of the pay date.  Regardless when you leave like you said I'd definitely get out of a plan that's doing sketchy things with funding dates.  Our plan is with Fidelity and has great options so I wouldn't be in a hurry to roll it out because even if something happened to the Company it's 100% vested and not tied to the Company.  That said for convenience purposes when I retire I'll move everything to Vanguard. 

[Rukh O'Rorke]

Sept 30, 2024 13:35:01 GMT -5 souldoubt said:

Sept 30, 2024 12:02:41 GMT -5 Rukh O'Rorke said:

I will rollover as soon as I sever employment.

yes - investments options and I do not like the company, think that are a bit shady. Whenever my contributions would go in, it would as early as 2 days before the pay day to 6 days after.

As you might imagine it was always on the day stocks were trading at the highest prices across that week-10day period. I complained to HR, to which the person just said "I'm sure they're not doing that." and that was the end of it.

Now, I could understand if things are variable along the electronic transfer, etc. but how on earth could it ever be days before payday even happened? I call shady!

Do you work for a small Company and/or a plan that isn't audited?  Annually for our 401K audit we have to provide funding details for each contribution and would get dinged for too many instances of not uploading within a day or two of the pay date.  Regardless when you leave like you said I'd definitely get out of a plan that's doing sketchy things with funding dates.  Our plan is with Fidelity and has great options so I wouldn't be in a hurry to roll it out because even if something happened to the Company it's 100% vested and not tied to the Company.  That said for convenience purposes when I retire I'll move everything to Vanguard. 

and the other thing that bugs me is there is no money market option. There is nothing that can't go down in value, no way to just park cash. But since i may retire soon, I have some in the base fixed income that can lose value.

And then the two other fixed income options that have 2 year and 5 year requirements, where if you take out before 2/5 years depending on fund, there is a surrender charge. 

I just want a money market account for cash.....so yeah - going to get out as soon as I retire.

[souldoubt]

Sept 30, 2024 13:54:45 GMT -5 Rukh O'Rorke said:

Sept 30, 2024 13:35:01 GMT -5 souldoubt said:

Do you work for a small Company and/or a plan that isn't audited?  Annually for our 401K audit we have to provide funding details for each contribution and would get dinged for too many instances of not uploading within a day or two of the pay date.  Regardless when you leave like you said I'd definitely get out of a plan that's doing sketchy things with funding dates.  Our plan is with Fidelity and has great options so I wouldn't be in a hurry to roll it out because even if something happened to the Company it's 100% vested and not tied to the Company.  That said for convenience purposes when I retire I'll move everything to Vanguard. 

and the other thing that bugs me is there is no money market option. There is nothing that can't go down in value, no way to just park cash. But since i may retire soon, I have some in the base fixed income that can lose value.

And then the two other fixed income options that have 2 year and 5 year requirements, where if you take out before 2/5 years depending on fund, there is a surrender charge. 

I just want a money market account for cash.....so yeah - going to get out as soon as I retire.

That's crazy to me but I've been spoiled by the plan I'm in.  We have some mutual funds that have short term trading fees if you sell shares that were purchased in the last 30 or 60 days but you can avoid those by waiting the period out and those are really to prevent day or rather pay period trading.  Our Company is in the investment industry, we have a 401K Audit Committee and annually at the meeting they review the election choices while those that are watch listed are replaced if they don't turn it around.  It's done for everyone in the plan but particularly those that are less investment savvy so they don't end up in under performing funds with high fees.  There's target retirement date funds, index funds and a MM option.  It's no surprise that a lot of people who leave keep their money in the plan.  I know our plan is not the norm and why the consensus advice out there is if you have poor election choices to just contribute the minimum for the match then go IRA and taxable.

[schildi]

I am with a large corp also, and the accounts are with Fidelity.
The money always (really, always) get's credited to the accounts either a day before payday, or on payday.

So no issues with that. I am doing Roth in plan conversions, and could transfer that to my individual Roth, no problem. But the investment options are great in the company plan, so no need to transfer from that point of view.

Are there any other advantages to transferring the Roth in plan conversion from my 401k to my individual Roth? Or should I just leave it where it is?

[The Walk of the Penguin Mich]

Sept 29, 2024 11:21:49 GMT -5 Rukh O'Rorke said:

anyone have info on how this works when rolling over?

TD said your contributions go into a Roth IRA, your employer’s a traditional IRA.

[WannabeWealthy]

Sept 30, 2024 20:02:27 GMT -5 schildi said:

I am with a large corp also, and the accounts are with Fidelity.
The money always (really, always) get's credited to the accounts either a day before payday, or on payday.

So no issues with that. I am doing Roth in plan conversions, and could transfer that to my individual Roth, no problem. But the investment options are great in the company plan, so no need to transfer from that point of view.

Are there any other advantages to transferring the Roth in plan conversion from my 401k to my individual Roth? Or should I just leave it where it is?

I'm curious why the government created such a loophole.  Especially for people that can contribute more than the limit each year.  It almost feels like they should just make a Roth IRA have unlimited limit.  I am putting in my 401k Roth and at the end of each year, I'll just roll it over to my outside Roth. It's essentially being able to add as much as you want to a RothIRA.

[schildi]

Oct 9, 2024 20:03:47 GMT -5 WannabeWealthy said:

Sept 30, 2024 20:02:27 GMT -5 schildi said:

I am with a large corp also, and the accounts are with Fidelity.
The money always (really, always) get's credited to the accounts either a day before payday, or on payday.

So no issues with that. I am doing Roth in plan conversions, and could transfer that to my individual Roth, no problem. But the investment options are great in the company plan, so no need to transfer from that point of view.

Are there any other advantages to transferring the Roth in plan conversion from my 401k to my individual Roth? Or should I just leave it where it is?

I'm curious why the government created such a loophole.  Especially for people that can contribute more than the limit each year.  It almost feels like they should just make a Roth IRA have unlimited limit.  I am putting in my 401k Roth and at the end of each year, I'll just roll it over to my outside Roth. It's essentially being able to add as much as you want to a RothIRA.

Yeah, it is weird.
I am maxing my pre-tax 401(k) to the limit, $30,500 this year to maximise the tax deduction. And then I am adding another $25k to my Roth through after tax contributions and RIPC, then transferring out to my individual IRA every couple of years or so. I just this week did a $70k rollover. Then my employer adds some $15k this year, and I still haven't reached the limit.

What I am wondering is if there is really much of an advantage in transferring the RIPC money out of my 401(k) plan every few years, or not.

[Rukh O'Rorke]

Oct 10, 2024 19:25:24 GMT -5 schildi said:

Oct 9, 2024 20:03:47 GMT -5 WannabeWealthy said:

I'm curious why the government created such a loophole.  Especially for people that can contribute more than the limit each year.  It almost feels like they should just make a Roth IRA have unlimited limit.  I am putting in my 401k Roth and at the end of each year, I'll just roll it over to my outside Roth. It's essentially being able to add as much as you want to a RothIRA.

Yeah, it is weird.
I am maxing my pre-tax 401(k) to the limit, $30,500 this year to maximise the tax deduction. And then I am adding another $25k to my Roth through after tax contributions and RIPC, then transferring out to my individual IRA every couple of years or so. I just this week did a $70k rollover. Then my employer adds some $15k this year, and I still haven't reached the limit.

What I am wondering is if there is really much of an advantage in transferring the RIPC money out of my 401(k) plan every few years, or not.

wait - am I able to transfer my 401k money to my rollover ira without quitting?

I thought you could not do this?

[minnesotapaintlady]

Oct 10, 2024 20:48:44 GMT -5 Rukh O'Rorke said:

Oct 10, 2024 19:25:24 GMT -5 schildi said:

Yeah, it is weird.
I am maxing my pre-tax 401(k) to the limit, $30,500 this year to maximise the tax deduction. And then I am adding another $25k to my Roth through after tax contributions and RIPC, then transferring out to my individual IRA every couple of years or so. I just this week did a $70k rollover. Then my employer adds some $15k this year, and I still haven't reached the limit.

What I am wondering is if there is really much of an advantage in transferring the RIPC money out of my 401(k) plan every few years, or not.

wait - am I able to transfer my 401k money to my rollover ira without quitting?

I thought you could not do this?

It depends on if your plan allows in-service rollovers.  Mine does not.

[schildi]

Oct 10, 2024 21:10:07 GMT -5 minnesotapaintlady said:

Oct 10, 2024 20:48:44 GMT -5 Rukh O'Rorke said:

wait - am I able to transfer my 401k money to my rollover ira without quitting?

I thought you could not do this?

It depends on if your plan allows in-service rollovers.  Mine does not.

I can rollover the RIPC funds from my 401k to my individual Roth, no problem. As I said, I just did it this week, partial rollover of $70k. Last time before that was in 2021.
I get a 1099 with taxable amount = 0.

[minnesotapaintlady]

Oct 10, 2024 21:20:31 GMT -5 schildi said:

Oct 10, 2024 21:10:07 GMT -5 minnesotapaintlady said:

It depends on if your plan allows in-service rollovers.  Mine does not.

I can rollover the RIPC funds from my 401k to my individual Roth, no problem. As I said, I just did it this week, partial rollover of $70k. Last time before that was in 2021.

I'm not denying you can do it.  But it is plan dependent.

[schildi]

Oct 10, 2024 21:23:02 GMT -5 minnesotapaintlady said:

Oct 10, 2024 21:20:31 GMT -5 schildi said:

I can rollover the RIPC funds from my 401k to my individual Roth, no problem. As I said, I just did it this week, partial rollover of $70k. Last time before that was in 2021.

I'm not denying you can do it.  But it is plan dependent.

Yes, I believe it's plan dependent. I actually meant to reply to Rukh.

[Rukh O'Rorke]

thanks!

I will check if mine does next week