Pressidential Immunity

[ripvanwinkle]

I thought this need its own thread with the today's SCOTUS decision. The vote was 6 to 3 in favor of presidential immunity past, present and future. Hard to say how I feel. The pundits on ABC, CBS, NBC, CNN and MSNBC were running around like their hair was on fire saying this makes presidents like kings and and can kill anybody with impunity.

Ok I'm paraphrasing this a bit but Justice Sotomeyer did say the president could call out Seal Team Six and assassinate their political rivals.

www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/2024/07/01/sotomayor-jackson-trump-immunity-dissent/

Besides helping Trump in his trials this also helps Biden after he leave office.

[pulmonarymd]

So Biden can claim that Trump committed treason on January 6 and have him executed and the only punishment for him is impeachment. That is what the Supreme Court just okayed. Careful what you wished for. Trumps claim is that ANYTHING a president does is legal, an argument that didn’t fly for Nixon. If you agree with the decision, then no president can ever be arrested for any crime. So what is it?

[billisonboard]

It certainly ups the need for voters to make a smart choice when electing a president.

[djAdvocate]

horrendous ruling. historically horrendous.


this undermines the system of checks and balances AND puts the president above the law.


if Trump wins, this will make him infinitely more dangerous.

[dondubble]

Just f’d up beyond all reason from our corrupted 6 pack of ultra Catholics.

[djAdvocate]

i said a year ago that Trump destroyed 2 branches of government, but we can count on the courts.

i was wrong. he destroyed all three.

i don't know how America gets it's country back. the only way i can think of is to vote Democrat for a generation. that is the ONLY way. and i honestly can't imagine that happening. eventually, you will slip up, and someone like Trump or maybe even worse (if Bannon is to be believed) will get in.

checks and balances died today. the only pillar of Democracy remaining is the vote, and that is shaky, at best. i am DEEPLY concerned about the USA.

[Opti]

The pundits on ABC, CBS, NBC, CNN and MSNBC were running around like their hair was on fire saying this makes presidents like kings and and can kill anybody with impunity.

This is true. 
The good thing about Kings though is they regularly were all killed by their own dukes and what not when they got too uppity.

[djAdvocate]

Jul 1, 2024 22:56:18 GMT -5 Opti said:

The pundits on ABC, CBS, NBC, CNN and MSNBC were running around like their hair was on fire saying this makes presidents like kings and and can kill anybody with impunity.

This is true. 
The good thing about Kings though is they regularly were all killed by their own dukes and what not when they got too uppity.

it is what happens when people determine they are powerless to the will of rulers.  it might not happen quickly, but eventually, it will happen.

of course, it won't fix the problem for the governed.  but it certainly puts more risk in the proposition for the government.

[Opti]

Jul 1, 2024 22:48:21 GMT -5 djAdvocate said:

i said a year ago that Trump destroyed 2 branches of government, but we can count on the courts.

i was wrong. he destroyed all three.

i don't know how America gets it's country back. the only way i can think of is to vote Democrat for a generation. that is the ONLY way. and i honestly can't imagine that happening. eventually, you will slip up, and someone like Trump or maybe even worse (if Bannon is to be believed) will get in.

checks and balances died today. the only pillar of Democracy remaining is the vote, and that is shaky, at best. i am DEEPLY concerned about the USA.

Its very simple actually but I am not sure if Biden is willing to fall on his sword and test the will of the Supreme Court.

Don't know, but I am good at shit like this in theory at least. So if they do not reverse the decision prior to Jan 20 2025 Biden now has clearance to assassinate Trump with no legal consequences whatsoever. The world court might be unhappy, but I can craft a story right now of how to make a GOPer actually pull the trigger on the Dark Op.

I forget who the GOP speaker of the House is at the moment, but let's just say in my political fan fic, Biden has a medical emergency, Harris has to go w/ Sec of State on a out of country emergency. ... who OKs the Mission?

Mike Johnson. 
Or use spies to setup Putin and Trump. Heck, though I think all the comics should just run with skit ideas. I have several already.  

[Opti]

Jul 1, 2024 23:03:03 GMT -5 djAdvocate said:

Jul 1, 2024 22:56:18 GMT -5 Opti said:

This is true. 
The good thing about Kings though is they regularly were all killed by their own dukes and what not when they got too uppity.

it is what happens when people determine they are powerless to the will of rulers.  it might not happen quickly, but eventually, it will happen.

of course, it won't fix the problem for the governed.  but it certainly puts more risk in the proposition for the government.

Well they got browbeat or not into executing his playbook. I am choosing not to panic, but fastest way to fix this is late comics ...
Good PR move in trying to erase the "black jobs" comment, but it does not work for me. I think I need to start a spreadsheet on this shit.

Anyone know how to contact major late nite hosts? Kimmel, Fallon et al?

[Opti]

www.congress.gov/days-in-session/1

I was wondering if Congress was on break for the summer already. I think the answer is yes. And this timing was carefully planned by he who could be named.

Look at this years calendar and last years. August of 2023 they were off, probably had summer "sessions" scheduled for emergencies. I don't know if this vote actually applies to any real federal laws. So I might actually read my first SCOTUS briefs when this comes out.

[Tennesseer]

Jul 1, 2024 21:15:57 GMT -5 ripvanwinkle said:

I thought this need its own thread with the today's SCOTUS decision. The vote was 6 to 3 in favor of presidential immunity past, present and future. Hard to say how I feel. The pundits on ABC, CBS, NBC, CNN and MSNBC were running around like their hair was on fire saying this makes presidents like kings and and can kill anybody with impunity.

Ok I'm paraphrasing this a bit but Justice Sotomeyer did say the president could call out Seal Team Six and assassinate their political rivals.

www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/2024/07/01/sotomayor-jackson-trump-immunity-dissent/

Besides helping Trump in his trials this also helps Biden after he leave office.

Donald Trump Says Fake Electors Scheme Was 'Official Act'

ADonald Trump lawyer has said that an alleged fake elector scheme was an "official act" and so should be immune from prosecution in Trump's federal election interference case.

Speaking to CNN's Kaitlan Collins on Monday night, Will Scharf, an attorney for the former president, laid out the next steps for special counsel Jack Smith's case following the U.S. Supreme Court ruling that former presidents have absolute immunity for their official acts but no immunity for private acts.

In a federal indictment filed in August, Trump is facing four charges pertaining to his alleged attempt to overturn the results of the 2020 election. He has denied all wrongdoing.

Trump's team is alleged to have created and submitted fraudulent certificates to falsely claim Trump had won the Electoral College vote in certain states to disrupt President Joe Biden's victory.

Speaking to Collins, Scharf said that Smith's "case should be dismissed" because it concerns official acts not private ones.

"We've admitted consistently that there are acts alleged in the indictment that would constitute private conduct but we believe that if the official conduct, the immune acts in the indictment are stripped away, that Jack Smith doesn't have a case, that this case should be dismissed on that basis," he said.

When pressed by Collins whether using a "false slates of electors" would constitute enough for a trial, Scharf denied that the Trump team had used false slates and said using "alternate slates" was an "official act."

He said: "We would say alternate slates of electors and as we argued before the Supreme Court, alternate slates of electors have been a method used by previous presidents."

He continued: "We believe the assembly of those alternate slates of electors was an official act of the presidency."

Rest of article here: Donald Trump Says Fake Electors Scheme Was 'Official Act'

[ken a.k.a OMK]

I'm waiting for the taking of classified documents and hiding them is an official act. Just define anything king trump does as an official act. 

[billisonboard]

The Federal Executive Branch has no role in the Electoral College process. It is neither a core or on the "outer perimeter" of presidential duties.

[swamp]

A really good summary of the case: 

abovethelaw.com/2024/07/trump-immunity-opinion-textualist-originalist/

[Tennesseer]

The challenge Charles I prepared to fling at his accusers on 22 January 1649 has conditioned the thinking of generations of historians. “No earthly power can justly call me, who am your king, in question as a delinquent,” he proclaimed. He reminded those who presumed to judge him that they had been “born his subjects and born subjects to those laws, which determined, ‘that the king can do no wrong,’” a maxim that “guards every English monarch, even the least deserving.” Indeed, there was no established legal process that could hold Charles personally accountable for his actions, even if, as charged, he meant to overthrow the rights and liberties of his people. The tenet the king can do no wrong shifted responsibility onto those who carried out royal orders. Proponents of royal supremacy had seen in that maxim proof that kings were not only legally unaccountable but actually above the law.

Doing No Wrong: Law, Liberty, and the Constraint of Kings

[resolution]

He's already trying to get his porn star hush money conviction overturned, because the evidence included some of his social media posts about his lawyer, which he posted after becoming president.


apnews.com/article/trump-hush-money-supreme-court-immunity-3d97d2e9497a5a208c1309aec7a0cd6a

[Tennesseer]

If the payment was made on October 26, 2016, then the payment to shut up Stormy Daniels was made before trump was president.  Therefore, trump should get no presidential immuity in the Hush Money case.

Trump's attorney pays hush money to Stormy Daniels

On October 8, 2016, Pecker allegedly learned that Daniels was trying to sell the story of her alleged 2006 affair with Trump.[43]

On October 9, Cohen allegedly learned that Pecker had instructed AMI to not purchase Daniels' story.[44]

On October 17, Cohen submitted paperwork to create a Delaware-registered limited liability company named "Essential Consultants, LLC".[45]

On October 25, Pecker again allegedly told Cohen that AMI would not buy Daniels' story and that Pecker believed Cohen should buy her story.[46]

On October 26, Cohen opened a bank account for the LLC and on October 27 used his personal home equity line of credit to wire $130,000 into the LLC's account.[45] Cohen corresponded with the bank using his Trump Organization email account and representing himself as "Special Counsel to Donald J. Trump"

Stormy Daniels–Donald Trump scandal

[billisonboard]

Jul 2, 2024 13:53:04 GMT -5 Tennesseer said:

If the payment was made on October 26, 2016, then the payment to shut up Stormy Daniels was made before trump was president.  Therefore, trump should get no presidential immuity in the Hush Money case.

Trump's attorney pays hush money to Stormy Daniels

On October 8, 2016, Pecker allegedly learned that Daniels was trying to sell the story of her alleged 2006 affair with Trump.[43]

On October 9, Cohen allegedly learned that Pecker had instructed AMI to not purchase Daniels' story.[44]

On October 17, Cohen submitted paperwork to create a Delaware-registered limited liability company named "Essential Consultants, LLC".[45]

On October 25, Pecker again allegedly told Cohen that AMI would not buy Daniels' story and that Pecker believed Cohen should buy her story.[46]

On October 26, Cohen opened a bank account for the LLC and on October 27 used his personal home equity line of credit to wire $130,000 into the LLC's account.[45] Cohen corresponded with the bank using his Trump Organization email account and representing himself as "Special Counsel to Donald J. Trump"

Stormy Daniels–Donald Trump scandal

He wasn't convicted for making the payment.

[tallguy]

Jul 2, 2024 13:10:22 GMT -5 Tennesseer said:

The challenge Charles I prepared to fling at his accusers on 22 January 1649 has conditioned the thinking of generations of historians. “No earthly power can justly call me, who am your king, in question as a delinquent,” he proclaimed. He reminded those who presumed to judge him that they had been “born his subjects and born subjects to those laws, which determined, ‘that the king can do no wrong,’” a maxim that “guards every English monarch, even the least deserving.” Indeed, there was no established legal process that could hold Charles personally accountable for his actions, even if, as charged, he meant to overthrow the rights and liberties of his people. The tenet the king can do no wrong shifted responsibility onto those who carried out royal orders. Proponents of royal supremacy had seen in that maxim proof that kings were not only legally unaccountable but actually above the law.

Doing No Wrong: Law, Liberty, and the Constraint of Kings

So....  Who is Oliver Cromwell here?

[happyhoix]

Jul 2, 2024 12:32:56 GMT -5 billisonboard said:

The Federal Executive Branch has no role in the Electoral College process. It is neither a core or on the "outer perimeter" of presidential duties.

Amy coney Barrett agrees with you.

In her opinion on this ruling she said while Congress has some limited authority over electors, the executive branch has none, and therefore what Trump did related to the fake electors is a personal act and not presidential duties.

No immunity.

I’m sure Alito and Thomas and their crazy wives would disagree.

[happyhoix]

Jul 2, 2024 13:53:04 GMT -5 Tennesseer said:

If the payment was made on October 26, 2016, then the payment to shut up Stormy Daniels was made before trump was president.  Therefore, trump should get no presidential immuity in the Hush Money case.

Trump's attorney pays hush money to Stormy Daniels

On October 8, 2016, Pecker allegedly learned that Daniels was trying to sell the story of her alleged 2006 affair with Trump.[43]

On October 9, Cohen allegedly learned that Pecker had instructed AMI to not purchase Daniels' story.[44]

On October 17, Cohen submitted paperwork to create a Delaware-registered limited liability company named "Essential Consultants, LLC".[45]

On October 25, Pecker again allegedly told Cohen that AMI would not buy Daniels' story and that Pecker believed Cohen should buy her story.[46]

On October 26, Cohen opened a bank account for the LLC and on October 27 used his personal home equity line of credit to wire $130,000 into the LLC's account.[45] Cohen corresponded with the bank using his Trump Organization email account and representing himself as "Special Counsel to Donald J. Trump"

Stormy Daniels–Donald Trump scandal

Trump is claiming a few memos discussed in the trial were written in 2018 and therefore the whole case has to be thrown out.

[djAdvocate]

Jul 2, 2024 16:09:34 GMT -5 happyhoix said:

Jul 2, 2024 12:32:56 GMT -5 billisonboard said:

The Federal Executive Branch has no role in the Electoral College process. It is neither a core or on the "outer perimeter" of presidential duties.

Amy coney Barrett agrees with you.

In her opinion on this ruling she said while Congress has some limited authority over electors, the executive branch has none, and therefore what Trump did related to the fake electors is a personal act and not presidential duties.

No immunity.

I’m sure Alito and Thomas and their crazy wives would disagree.

Barrett has surprised me a bit, here.
if we can just get rid of ONE of the crazies, the SCOTUS might recover (soonish).

[happyhoix]

This made me feel a little better: www.rawstory.com/overturning-supreme-court-trump-immunity/

Plessy vs Ferguson, Dredd Scott, we’ve had horrible findings before and overturned them.

[Tennesseer]

Jul 2, 2024 13:59:52 GMT -5 billisonboard said:

Jul 2, 2024 13:53:04 GMT -5 Tennesseer said:

If the payment was made on October 26, 2016, then the payment to shut up Stormy Daniels was made before trump was president.  Therefore, trump should get no presidential immuity in the Hush Money case.



Stormy Daniels–Donald Trump scandal

He wasn't convicted for making the payment.

True. My error.