Plan 2025

[Tiny]

This seems to be the platform trump is running on.  I've been hearing about for months.   I wonder how many Republican voters understand what they are voting for... 

Perhaps if RipVanWinkle pops in, he can comment on it and what parts of the Plan he's for... 

Anyone else have opinions good/bad on it?     

 

www.project2025.org/

From the main page: 

It is not enough for conservatives to win elections. If we are going to rescue the country from the grip of the radical Left, we need both a governing agenda and the right people in place, ready to carry this agenda out on Day One of the next conservative Administration.



This is the goal of the 2025 Presidential Transition Project. The project will build on four pillars that will, collectively, pave the way for an effective conservative Administration.

I'll see if I can find something more manageable (or some sort of summary). 

[djAdvocate]

AWFUL

[happyhoix]

Horrible. Anti-American. Anti-Freedom. Reminds me of the Handmaid’s Tale.

The dems need to do a better job broadcasting this - GOP is trying to keep it on the down low.

[seriousthistime]

Wikipedia has a reasonable synopsis of Project 2025. 

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_2025

It is scary as hell. And if you read it, it's interesting to see how they frame their ideas and that is how they will fool us. An example: they are not going to cut Medicare and Social Security. They are going to save it to ensure our benefits will continue well into the future. And that's how they get buy-in from the voters.

As a former federal employee, I think the executive branch will be devastated.  Courts are starting to consider whether government employees are entitled to certain job protections that have been codified into law.

It started to shift when GW Bush started hiring a ton of graduates of Liberty University, which Jerry Falwell founded. A lot of them ended up at the DOJ. The Bush administration also hired a bunch of graduates from Pat Robertson's Regent University.

[ripvanwinkle]

Interesting. Not scary to me. I went to Wiki link and read the synopsis and to me it reads like they want less government with a Libertarian slant.

 

Project 2025 envisions widespread changes across the government, particularly economic and social policies and the role of the federal government and its agencies. 

This is good.

The plan proposes slashing funding for the Department of Justice (DOJ), dismantling the Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI) and Department of Homeland Security (DHS), 

This needs a 2nd look.

sharply reducing environmental and climate change regulations to favor fossil fuel production, - This is good.

eliminating the Department of Commerce, and ending the independence of federal agencies such as the Federal Communications Commission (FCC) and Federal Trade Commission (FTC).[8][9] The blueprint seeks to institute tax cuts,[10] though its writers disagree on the wisdom of protectionism - I'm ok with this.

[dondubble]

Jun 21, 2024 23:15:34 GMT -5 ripvanwinkle said:

Interesting. Not scary to me. I went to Wiki link and read the synopsis and to me it reads like they want less government with a Libertarian slant.

 

Project 2025 envisions widespread changes across the government, particularly economic and social policies and the role of the federal government and its agencies. 

This is good.

The plan proposes slashing funding for the Department of Justice (DOJ), dismantling the Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI) and Department of Homeland Security (DHS), 

This needs a 2nd look.

sharply reducing environmental and climate change regulations to favor fossil fuel production, - This is good.

eliminating the Department of Commerce, and ending the independence of federal agencies such as the Federal Communications Commission (FCC) and Federal Trade Commission (FTC).[8][9] The blueprint seeks to institute tax cuts,[10] though its writers disagree on the wisdom of protectionism - I'm ok with this.

Thanks for proving there is something drastically wrong with you. Again.

[djAdvocate]

Jun 21, 2024 20:26:54 GMT -5 seriousthistime said:

Wikipedia has a reasonable synopsis of Project 2025. 

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_2025

It is scary as hell. And if you read it, it's interesting to see how they frame their ideas and that is how they will fool us. An example: they are not going to cut Medicare and Social Security. They are going to save it to ensure our benefits will continue well into the future. And that's how they get buy-in from the voters.

As a former federal employee, I think the executive branch will be devastated.  Courts are starting to consider whether government employees are entitled to certain job protections that have been codified into law.

It started to shift when GW Bush started hiring a ton of graduates of Liberty University, which Jerry Falwell founded. A lot of them ended up at the DOJ. The Bush administration also hired a bunch of graduates from Pat Robertson's Regent University.

this whole project started in around 1973.
early crusaders were Rumsfeld, Cheney and Wolfowitz.
they all had a dramatic impact on policy.

[djAdvocate]

Jun 21, 2024 23:15:34 GMT -5 ripvanwinkle said:

Interesting. Not scary to me. I went to Wiki link and read the synopsis and to me it reads like they want less government with a Libertarian slant.

 

Project 2025 envisions widespread changes across the government, particularly economic and social policies and the role of the federal government and its agencies. 

This is good.

The plan proposes slashing funding for the Department of Justice (DOJ), dismantling the Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI) and Department of Homeland Security (DHS), 

This needs a 2nd look.

sharply reducing environmental and climate change regulations to favor fossil fuel production, - This is good.

eliminating the Department of Commerce, and ending the independence of federal agencies such as the Federal Communications Commission (FCC) and Federal Trade Commission (FTC).[8][9] The blueprint seeks to institute tax cuts,[10] though its writers disagree on the wisdom of protectionism - I'm ok with this.

you ok with curtailing civil rights, ending abortion, and unifying power around the president.  because, just to be clear, i am not.

if Trump wins, i am leaving, and they can bring me back in an urn.

[pulmonarymd]

I would like rip or other conservatives to answer
1 question. Are you willing to give a democrat the same powers you are willing to cede to Trump? If not, you are all idiots, or are willing to live in a non-democratic country, because no 1 party is going to win every election. But I suspect this point is too deep for them to understand

[billisonboard]

Jun 22, 2024 9:12:19 GMT -5 pulmonarymd said:

I would like rip or other conservatives to answer
1 question. Are you willing to give a democrat the same powers you are willing to cede to Trump? If not, you are all idiots, or are willing to live in a non-democratic country, because no 1 party is going to win every election. But I suspect this point is too deep for them to understand

Once the government and country is purged of Un-American elements, no candidate left-leaning at all will be electable.

[pulmonarymd]

Jun 22, 2024 9:49:12 GMT -5 billisonboard said:

Jun 22, 2024 9:12:19 GMT -5 pulmonarymd said:

I would like rip or other conservatives to answer
1 question. Are you willing to give a democrat the same powers you are willing to cede to Trump? If not, you are all idiots, or are willing to live in a non-democratic country, because no 1 party is going to win every election. But I suspect this point is too deep for them to understand

Once the government and country is purged of Un-American elements, no candidate left-leaning at all will be electable.

Good luck with that. But again, they aren’t that deep thinking. If that happens, it will be a “careful what you wish for” moment, because our economic standing and our environment will have suffered greatly as it happens

[billisonboard]

Jun 22, 2024 10:43:22 GMT -5 pulmonarymd said:

Jun 22, 2024 9:49:12 GMT -5 billisonboard said:

Once the government and country is purged of Un-American elements, no candidate left-leaning at all will be electable.

Good luck with that. But again, they aren’t that deep thinking. If that happens, it will be a “careful what you wish for” moment, because our economic standing and our environment will have suffered greatly as it happens

Which is where effort needs to be focused, the full impact of the plan. Not on attempting to change the "true believers" but focused on those still to some degree open to discussion.

[happyhoix]

I always have to laugh at Americans who want to eliminate all the environmental regulations because they know that would be good for business.

We forgot what it was like before we had environmental laws. In Cleveland, the river caught on fire. More than once. We had Love Canal and Valley of the Drums before we had haz waste rules. In NE Tennessee, a company emitted so much sulfuric acid it destroyed the vegetation over such large area the bald batch was visible from space. When local farmers tried to sue the company back in the 30s, the judge turned them down, saying that their land wasn’t worth that much to begin with.

This is what you get when companies can do what they want. So what if it impacts your space or reduces your life. The wealthy people can afford to live somewhere clean.

This is what the GOP wants us to return to.

[Tennesseer]

Jun 22, 2024 12:01:31 GMT -5 happyhoix said:

I always have to laugh at Americans who want to eliminate all the environmental regulations because they know that would be good for business.

We forgot what it was like before we had environmental laws. In Cleveland, the river caught on fire. More than once. We had Love Canal and Valley of the Drums before we had haz waste rules. In NE Tennessee, a company emitted so much sulfuric acid it destroyed the vegetation over such large area the bald batch was visible from space. When local farmers tried to sue the company back in the 30s, the judge turned them down, saying that their land wasn’t worth that much to begin with.

This is what you get when companies can do what they want. So what if it impacts your space or reduces your life. The wealthy people can afford to live somewhere clean.

This is what the GOP wants us to return to.

And ripvanwinkle is okay with all that.

[mollyc]

My experience with the people that think we don’t need environmental protections is that they are the same people who think acid rain, ozone holes and the 2000 computer issues were overhyped. They don’t realize these things weren’t catastrophic because laws were set up, things were changed and people worked their asses off.

Is it obvious these things are amongst my pet peeves?

[djAdvocate]

Jun 22, 2024 12:01:31 GMT -5 happyhoix said:

I always have to laugh at Americans who want to eliminate all the environmental regulations because they know that would be good for business.

We forgot what it was like before we had environmental laws. In Cleveland, the river caught on fire. More than once. We had Love Canal and Valley of the Drums before we had haz waste rules. In NE Tennessee, a company emitted so much sulfuric acid it destroyed the vegetation over such large area the bald batch was visible from space. When local farmers tried to sue the company back in the 30s, the judge turned them down, saying that their land wasn’t worth that much to begin with.

This is what you get when companies can do what they want. So what if it impacts your space or reduces your life. The wealthy people can afford to live somewhere clean.

This is what the GOP wants us to return to.

anyone who has studied the industrial revolution will tell you that there were weeks on end where they never saw the sun in England.

[djAdvocate]

Jun 22, 2024 14:18:31 GMT -5 mollyc said:

My experience with the people that think we don’t need environmental protections is that they are the same people who think acid rain, ozone holes and the 2000 computer issues were overhyped. They don’t realize these things weren’t catastrophic because laws were set up, things were changed and people worked their asses off.

Is it obvious these things are amongst my pet peeves?

the religious right really doesn't buy into the climate change stuff for one of two reasons:

1) God will take care of everything OR
2) The Rapture

as weird as it might sounds, i find it far easier to go for those two reasons than anything else that i hear.  there is literally nothing else that even passes the sniff test for me.

[mollyc]

Jun 22, 2024 17:15:51 GMT -5 djAdvocate said:

Jun 22, 2024 14:18:31 GMT -5 mollyc said:

My experience with the people that think we don’t need environmental protections is that they are the same people who think acid rain, ozone holes and the 2000 computer issues were overhyped. They don’t realize these things weren’t catastrophic because laws were set up, things were changed and people worked their asses off.

Is it obvious these things are amongst my pet peeves?

the religious right really doesn't buy into the climate change stuff for one of two reasons:

1) God will take care of everything OR
2) The Rapture

as weird as it might sounds, i find it far easier to go for those two reasons than anything else that i hear.  there is literally nothing else that even passes the sniff test for me.

That may be true but it doesn’t explain the denial from the non-religious. It also requires Catholics and Protestants to ignore the stewardship of the earth requirements.

[djAdvocate]

Jun 22, 2024 22:01:48 GMT -5 mollyc said:

Jun 22, 2024 17:15:51 GMT -5 djAdvocate said:

the religious right really doesn't buy into the climate change stuff for one of two reasons:

1) God will take care of everything OR
2) The Rapture

as weird as it might sounds, i find it far easier to go for those two reasons than anything else that i hear.  there is literally nothing else that even passes the sniff test for me.

That may be true but it doesn’t explain the denial from the non-religious. It also requires Catholics and Protestants to ignore the stewardship of the earth requirements.

this is what i meant by "nothing else passes the sniff test".  the justifications for the anti-AGW position are utterly vapid.  there is no INTELLECTUAL argument that can be reasonably made.  that is why i can't accept it (them).

[djAdvocate]

i wish we could have a HEALTHY debate on the subject.

on one side, we would have the irrational argument.
on the other, we would have the rational one.

presuming the rational on won, we would then create policies which rationally addressed it. and the rational community would recognize the rights of the irrational to not believe the rational position. that is fine. believe whatever you like. believe that space aliens are coming to get us. the rest of us are not going to wait, thanks. and we won't persecute or ridicule you, even though we think your position is foolish and ill informed.

[happyhoix]

Now that more Republicans are learning what’s included in project 2025, it may be negatively impacting Trump’s voters.

www.salon.com/2024/07/05/project-2025-was-supposed-to-boost-donald-campaign--but-it-may-be-backfiring-instead/

Now some MAGA people are claiming Trump never said he would support Project 2025, but the head of the heritage foundation

However, the Heritage guy who is head of the project 2025 said we’re in the middle of a second American revolution and it will remain bloodless ‘if the liberals allow it to remain bloodless; - so I’m assuming, he expects bloodshed.

apnews.com/article/project-2025-trump-american-revolution-6e02a297fb91b55de01ba7e86615bb08

You know that Trump has no clue what’s in project 2025, and couldn’t care less if his administration adopts it or not. He just wants to be the hollow figurehead again, get to stand in front of adoring crowds and golf a lot. He’ll include Project 2025 in his next administration if he thinks the MAGA minions want it. If he does, that will be extremely dangerous for democracy.

[djAdvocate]

Jul 5, 2024 8:08:47 GMT -5 happyhoix said:

Now that more Republicans are learning what’s included in project 2025, it may be negatively impacting Trump’s voters.

www.salon.com/2024/07/05/project-2025-was-supposed-to-boost-donald-campaign--but-it-may-be-backfiring-instead/

Now some MAGA people are claiming Trump never said he would support Project 2025, but the head of the heritage foundation

However, the Heritage guy who is head of the project 2025 said we’re in the middle of a second American revolution and it will remain bloodless ‘if the liberals allow it to remain bloodless; - so I’m assuming, he expects bloodshed.

apnews.com/article/project-2025-trump-american-revolution-6e02a297fb91b55de01ba7e86615bb08

You know that Trump has no clue what’s in project 2025, and couldn’t care less if his administration adopts it or not. He just wants to be the hollow figurehead again, get to stand in front of adoring crowds and golf a lot. He’ll include Project 2025 in his next administration if he thinks the MAGA minions want it. If he does, that will be extremely dangerous for democracy.

really?  this is not how i would interpret that.

i would interpret that as "if liberals don't quietly acquiesce, we will smash their heads in."

this is why i am out of here.  i could not resist the temptation to put myself in the line of fire.  and i know, because history is my friend, that this results is abuse, injury, and often death.  my remaining life is too short to expose myself to that kind of risk.

[happyhoix]

Jul 5, 2024 11:48:32 GMT -5 djAdvocate said:

Jul 5, 2024 8:08:47 GMT -5 happyhoix said:

Now that more Republicans are learning what’s included in project 2025, it may be negatively impacting Trump’s voters.

www.salon.com/2024/07/05/project-2025-was-supposed-to-boost-donald-campaign--but-it-may-be-backfiring-instead/

Now some MAGA people are claiming Trump never said he would support Project 2025, but the head of the heritage foundation

However, the Heritage guy who is head of the project 2025 said we’re in the middle of a second American revolution and it will remain bloodless ‘if the liberals allow it to remain bloodless; - so I’m assuming, he expects bloodshed.

apnews.com/article/project-2025-trump-american-revolution-6e02a297fb91b55de01ba7e86615bb08

You know that Trump has no clue what’s in project 2025, and couldn’t care less if his administration adopts it or not. He just wants to be the hollow figurehead again, get to stand in front of adoring crowds and golf a lot. He’ll include Project 2025 in his next administration if he thinks the MAGA minions want it. If he does, that will be extremely dangerous for democracy.

really?  this is not how i would interpret that.

i would interpret that as "if liberals don't quietly acquiesce, we will smash their heads in."

this is why i am out of here.  i could not resist the temptation to put myself in the line of fire.  and i know, because history is my friend, that this results is abuse, injury, and often death.  my remaining life is too short to expose myself to that kind of risk.

No we interpreted it the same way. You just phrased it better.

[djAdvocate]

Jul 5, 2024 11:52:45 GMT -5 happyhoix said:

Jul 5, 2024 11:48:32 GMT -5 djAdvocate said:

really?  this is not how i would interpret that.

i would interpret that as "if liberals don't quietly acquiesce, we will smash their heads in."

this is why i am out of here.  i could not resist the temptation to put myself in the line of fire.  and i know, because history is my friend, that this results is abuse, injury, and often death.  my remaining life is too short to expose myself to that kind of risk.

No we interpreted it the same way. You just phrased it better.

so, as some of you are aware, i have been out of the country for two months, and just got back.  during that time, we had the horrendous Biden "debate" and the SCOTUS annointing the president as monarch.  my bandmate, and person i have probably the most in common with of any other person on Earth in terms of his background and perspective told me he was looking to expatriate, and has been getting offers from New Zealand.  apparently they want to create a tech hub in Auckland, which is trying to create their own silicon valley.

this is just the beginning of the brain drain, folks.  if Trump gets elected, i predict that people of means will move.  America is just not that great.  what keeps many people of means here are THREE things.  one is inertia (family, job, house, etc).  another is fear of the unknown (and the hassle of moving and becoming a PR or citizen elsewhere).  and finally, there is the sense that the US is better than other places.

when people become educated about other places, two of those three things fall away.  if you shed everything other than family RIGHT NOW, it will eliminate all but that one rather thorny problem.  and then, it will be up to them to decide what to do WHEN the time comes.  i say WHEN now, instead of IF because eventually, some right wing loon will be elected, and unless the SCOTUS decision is overturned before then (unlikely), y'all are fucked.

sorry to be so pessimistic, but our experiment in Democracy is likely over.  and it will be years, if not decades (or maybe forever) for the US to recover from this.  i hope that young people become educated and plan for the long haul, and defend against every single transgression against democracy, but i am not optimistic based on what i see (dumping Biden over his Palestinian policy?  REALLY?).  

so start planning now.  because if you wait until November, the mad rush is going to make it impossible/costly to do what you need to do in an orderly way.

i wish you all the very best.  you are good people, and you did not earn this.

[billisonboard]

The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants. 

[djAdvocate]

jmho- but if Trump wins there will be no liberty to fight for.

the fight, if we are to have one, is for THIS NOVEMBER. and bills, i am ALL IN for that fight. and if Trump loses, i am ALL IN for whatever fight comes AFTER that (if any), just as i have been for the last (8) years.

but if this nation is stupid enough to ELECT a tyrant, that is the opposite of standing up to tyranny. it is standing up FOR tyranny. it is standing against fairness, empathy, equality, and all of the things i believe in. if you expect me, and others, to fight FOR that, you have another thing coming.

i appreciate your sense of history and your dedication to all things politic. but if Trump wins, you will find yourself in a post political world. i am not going to expand on that for you or anyone else here. it is far too dark a vision of the future. but suffice to say that everything you now believe in is at stake this November. it is not too late, but that hour is drawing near.

[busymom]

Jul 5, 2024 12:06:14 GMT -5 billisonboard said:

The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants. 

      I'd prefer only the blood of tyrants...

[happyhoix]

Jul 5, 2024 12:22:41 GMT -5 djAdvocate said:

jmho- but if Trump wins there will be no liberty to fight for.

the fight, if we are to have one, is for THIS NOVEMBER. and bills, i am ALL IN for that fight. and if Trump loses, i am ALL IN for whatever fight comes AFTER that (if any), just as i have been for the last (8) years.

but if this nation is stupid enough to ELECT a tyrant, that is the opposite of standing up to tyranny. it is standing up FOR tyranny. it is standing against fairness, empathy, equality, and all of the things i believe in. if you expect me, and others, to fight FOR that, you have another thing coming.

i appreciate your sense of history and your dedication to all things politic. but if Trump wins, you will find yourself in a post political world. i am not going to expand on that for you or anyone else here. it is far too dark a vision of the future. but suffice to say that everything you now believe in is at stake this November. it is not too late, but that hour is drawing near.

I don’t think you’re wrong on this, but I think it will get derailed in one of two ways.


1) Trump is less healthy than Biden. I think it’s more likely Trump will die before his term if over, or 2) his dementia becomes so apparent he has to be removed.

The problem for the GOP is how divided they are. Once Trump is gone the whole coalition falls apart. His vp, his son and a variety of MAGA groupies will attempt to seize control, and split the party. MAGA will end up an angry minority.

The problem is how much damage Trump could do before that happens.

[busymom]

I don't think the current GOP would remove Trump, even if he got so crazy he needed a straitjacket.  He's halfway there as it is.  JMHO.


I do believe there would be a HUGE fight in the GOP on who would lead if his health problems did take him down.  Like an ugly fight.

[The Walk of the Penguin Mich]

Jun 22, 2024 14:10:25 GMT -5 Tennesseer said:

Jun 22, 2024 12:01:31 GMT -5 happyhoix said:

I always have to laugh at Americans who want to eliminate all the environmental regulations because they know that would be good for business.

We forgot what it was like before we had environmental laws. In Cleveland, the river caught on fire. More than once. We had Love Canal and Valley of the Drums before we had haz waste rules. In NE Tennessee, a company emitted so much sulfuric acid it destroyed the vegetation over such large area the bald batch was visible from space. When local farmers tried to sue the company back in the 30s, the judge turned them down, saying that their land wasn’t worth that much to begin with.

This is what you get when companies can do what they want. So what if it impacts your space or reduces your life. The wealthy people can afford to live somewhere clean.

This is what the GOP wants us to return to.

And ripvanwinkle is okay with all that.

I wonder if he’d be ok with another Bophal, India in the US?  Shit like this happens when both OSHA and environmental regulations are considered an option, not the law.  How many resulting deaths would be acceptable?