What do you think of Susie Orman?

[happyhoix]

I’ve watched parts of her PBS shows a few times. I like how she seems to specialize in providing financial advise to women, especially women who don’t know a lot about finances (like newly divorced women whose husband used to handle everything. 

However, I hard her say something the other day that seems off. I read a few months ago that about 10% of Americans save $1 million by the time they retire. Then a few days ago I saw that Susie was saying no one should retire until they have 2 to 5 million dollars saved. 

Is that realistic or would it  just make people with less throw up their hands and not even try to come up with a retirement plan, if it seems they will never come close to that goal? 

What is your opinion of her advice, in general? 

[minnesotapaintlady]

I don't really watch her but that particular recent article/statement has been misinterpreted as she was talking about EARLY retirement. Of course, there's a huge range of what could be considered early.  But for someone in their late 30's, early 40's with young kids in a HCOL area she's probably not far off the mark.  For someone in their late 50's it's way too conservative.

But Suze is super conservative anyhow.  She's what? 72 years old, still working with a 75 million net worth and still avoids eating out because it's a waste of money.    That's 100% miser territory IMO.

[happyhoix]

May 24, 2024 19:07:34 GMT -5 minnesotapaintlady said:

I don't really watch her but that particular recent article/statement has been misinterpreted as she was talking about EARLY retirement. Of course, there's a huge range of what could be considered early.  But for someone in their late 30's, early 40's with young kids in a HCOL area she's probably not far off the mark.  For someone in their late 50's it's way too conservative.

But Suze is super conservative anyhow.  She's what? 72 years old, still working with a 75 million net worth and still avoids eating out because it's a waste of money.    That's 100% miser territory IMO.

Oh thanks for that clarification - yes if you want to retire in your thirties, you would need a LOT more money. 

I didn’t realize she’s 72 - she doesn’t look it!  

I remember some years ago listening to one of her talks and she was talking about how she was taking care of her elderly mother but kept every single receipt because once her mother passed away she was going to get back every cent of the money she spent on her mom from her mom’s estate prior to dividing up the remainder between herself and her siblings, because one sibling shouldn’t have to pay for the parent’s debts alone. I remember thinking yeah, but if I had a net worth of millions of bucks and my sibs were slogging away at their 9 -5 jobs hoping to earn enough to be able to retire, I would not hesitate to foot the bill for my elderly’s parents needs by myself. So yeah, she may be a bit of a miser! Although I don’t know if she has kids, so maybe she leaves her fortune to her nieces and nephews - that would be nice. 

[TheOtherMe]

Suze Orman finally got me to think of needs vs wants seriously.  Before I watched her show, I didn't seriously consider that.  I just bought what I wanted.  

[busymom]

Like all financial "experts", I always kind of pick & choose which pieces of advice I'm going to follow.  I don't think she's all bad, but I don't follow all of her advice either.  


I do agree with her "people first, then money, then things".  Most of the time, that's pretty good advice.  

[haapai]

I find this difficult to admit but I caught one of her PBS episodes when I was younger and I was impressed.  It was the episode in which she used a three-drawer dresser as a prop and talked about money for everyday use, money for a use that I have forgotten, and money for investment.  I was probably watching this in 1992, but the episode might have been much older. 

I was transfixed.  This might have been because I was twenty-three and sensed that she was family.  I'd prefer to think that it was because she was discussing money in a way that I had never heard before and discussing it in such a common-sense way on a highly respected channel.  I'd never heard anything like this before.  I'd been raised to believe that talking about money was both in poor taste and a bit dangerous both for the speaker and the listener.  

I also was living in what was functionally a single room occupancy (SRO) building at the time and didn't think that this was a particularly bad living arrangement.  That is, despite where I was living, I wasn't particularly hungry for better housing or more stability. 

I think that she planted a seed in me to pay more attention to money and that it wasn't a moral failure not to know exactly how to handle money.  I never really became a fan or a follower, but she might have had something to do with breaking that tapu against even thinking about money. 

Having said that, I must now confess that I haven't seen one of her shows (on any medium) for at least ten years and kinda hated what I was watching or hearing or reading about her the last time that I gave her some attention.  I hated the histrionics.  I hated the appeal to emotions and adages instead of numbers. 

[Rukh O'Rorke]

May 25, 2024 8:41:46 GMT -5 happyhoix said:

May 24, 2024 19:07:34 GMT -5 minnesotapaintlady said:

I don't really watch her but that particular recent article/statement has been misinterpreted as she was talking about EARLY retirement. Of course, there's a huge range of what could be considered early.  But for someone in their late 30's, early 40's with young kids in a HCOL area she's probably not far off the mark.  For someone in their late 50's it's way too conservative.

But Suze is super conservative anyhow.  She's what? 72 years old, still working with a 75 million net worth and still avoids eating out because it's a waste of money.    That's 100% miser territory IMO.

Oh thanks for that clarification - yes if you want to retire in your thirties, you would need a LOT more money. 

I didn’t realize she’s 72 - she doesn’t look it!  

. 

Maybe she is pincing pennies in the restaurants so she can pay for cosmetic surgeries?

[Rukh O'Rorke]

I do credit a PBS ith suze as a turning point for me. I was sooo poor and with 2 kids and it just never occurred to me to do anything but make it paycheck to paycheck until "things got better". Thanks to seeing that show, I started saving much earlier than I would have, and it took far too long for things to get better.

But in terms of the mechanics on how to do things, I do not follow her. I had several of her books, lent them to somebody and they never returned them. I can't even remember who it was right now. while I don't think I need them or would do anything but give them away, a bit rude to never return them. 

[Tiny]

I think I saw her show on PBS back in the 90's.  I was surprised a woman was talking about Big financial stuff  (not about saving on groceries or how bank offerings work (Savings, Checking, CDs) ). Back then I was already contributing to a 401K, and not "living paycheck to paycheck" but I wasn't really saving more than what was going to my 401K.   She did make think about big upcoming expenses (eventually a new car, maybe a big vacation, maybe buying a house) and I did start "saving" for those kinds of things.   I stilled frittered money away but not as much. 

I haven't really paid much attention to her lately.   I know I saw part of her current show and she seemed like a caricature of herself (the Suze I saw back in the 90's) I kept thinking "she's just trying to remain relevant and to be entertaining".   


What I'd really wish for is that someone would talk about "investing" and clear up that it doesn't mean buying individual stocks.  And then maybe provide some high level as unbiased as possible info about different investments.  And do an unbiased talk about term life insurance and whole life insurance with some examples/reasons to use them.    Over and over and over again.  Because everyday someone gets there first job that offers a 401K or someone gets married or has a kid or, heck, just turns 18 years old. 

I keep having conversations about retirement investments and it turns out who ever I am talking to is "losing money" because they invest in individual stocks and thinks saving for retirement is a scam....     

[jerseygirl]

I liked her show ‘Can I afford it’

People wanted to buy something maybe a trip or an expensive purse. Size would ask about their finances- savings income etc and how person proposed buying

Some had little savings and surprisingly wanted to buy something expensive.Suze would say definitely NOT
Brought to light how unrealistic some people are
She has a podcast now and it’s ok. She lives, owns? A small Bahamas island. I enjoy listening to her talk about her life. She is an inspiration Was a waitress without any financial education . Merrill Lynch took her on maybe to atone for one of their employees who lost all of Suze’s money. Her friends had given her money to start a small restaurant. Also probably to fill a position for a woman.
She does encourage women to get out of a bad financial situation and that you can start saving at any age
So overall, positive

[TheOtherMe]

The Can I Afford It segment was my favorite.  The people almost always got turned down unless it was about a loved one dying and it was more like Make A Wish.  Then she would bring out her People first, then money, then things.

So many of the Can I Afford It segments were about people who were not living in reality.  

[seriousthistime]

I credit Suze Orman with helping me do a 180 on my post-divorce finances.  I watched her show every week on PBS, followed by Till Debt Do Us Part. Add in a bit of Dave Ramsey, the Women in Red, Elizabeth Warren, and the 60% solution (Richard Jenkins), and Liz Perle's "Money: a Memoir."  

At the time of the divorce, I was in my mid-50s and we were cash-flowing college expenses for two kids, with a third one to start college in a few years.  It was easy for us to cash flow since I had just returned to the work force after getting a graduate degree.  But when my salary had to cover my own living expenses plus part of the college expenses, and lawyer's fees on top of that, things got dicey.  I had to put the college expenses on credit cards (because I refused to go along with XH's plan to have them all come home and enroll in state schools, with CC for the youngest one) and take out a Plus loan. Selling the marital home paid off some of it, but I was still left with a staggering amount of debt that kept increasing until the kids graduated college. I had $0 in savings. 

I liked Dave Ramsey's baby steps.  Elizabeth Warren and Richard Jenkins gave me the tools to budget my money in a more meaningful and less bothersome way. The Women in Red kept me accountable.  Liz Perle made me realize the importance of a woman taking control of her own finances; it made me feel less like a "victim" of divorce. 

Suze added consistent reinforcement every week and kept me thinking about my finances, always at the forefront. It got me thinking differently about what I could afford, which had sometimes been in terms of how much more a purchase would increase my minimum payment. Determining wants vs. needs was an important consideration.  Suze could be over the top sometimes, way too conservative with people who had way more money saved than I did, but having that reminder was incredibly helpful when times were tough. 

I remember one "Can I Afford It" segment where a woman wanted to buy a Chanel purse for over $2,000.  I was shocked that someone would even want a $2,000 purse. 

[TheOtherMe]

Faithful watcher of Suze Orman followed by Till Death Do Us Part.  

Both of those made me think.  My now 90 year old cousin has always lived by the envelope method.  She never made much money and knew exactly how long it had to last.  She did not borrow from one envelope to another.  If a category was empty, that was it until she got paid.  

I would still never pay $2000 for a purse.  I don't like going over $50 to this day.

[svwashout]

Is this the interview?



Suze Orman: You Need $10 Million to Retire Early | Afford Anything Podcast (Audio-Only)


I asked her if a $3 million portfolio at a more conservative 3 percent withdrawal rate would be okay for an early retirement. She said no.
If you don’t have at least $5 million or $10 million, don’t retire early, Suze said.

and this just in --

finance.yahoo.com/news/suze-orman-says-70-retirement-160020488.html

Suze Orman Says '70 Is The New Retirement Age' — But Is She Right?

In a column, personal finance expert Suze Orman emphasized the importance of delaying retirement until age 70.
According to Orman, "Seventy is the new retirement age, not a month or year before."
While acknowledging that working until 70 can be challenging, Orman believes it is essential for a secure retirement.

So I guess in Suze's world the right choices are to either retire before age 70 with "at least 5 or 10 million dollars" -- or work until age 70?  I wonder what it takes to get a passing grade from her for someone retiring at 60?  Welp, it's too late for me now!

[minnesotapaintlady]

May 29, 2024 13:54:10 GMT -5 svwashout said:

Suze Orman Says '70 Is The New Retirement Age' — But Is She Right?

In a column, personal finance expert Suze Orman emphasized the importance of delaying retirement until age 70.
According to Orman, "Seventy is the new retirement age, not a month or year before."
While acknowledging that working until 70 can be challenging, Orman believes it is essential for a secure retirement.

Yeah, that's a big hell no from me.

[Pink Cashmere]

Just working until I’m 60 is a NO for me. I will not have even ONE million dollars when I retire. I am okay with that, I’m just gonna have to make it work.

I’ve never watched her, but I do read her FB posts when they show up on my feed. When I started learning about personal finance, you all were my “teachers”. Since I thought you all were crazy at first, when you all dissected people’s budgets and pointed out all the things they couldn’t afford, I’m sure I would’ve thought the same about Susie Orman at the time. I probably wouldn’t have stuck with her like I did with you all, long enough for me to finally understand the truth in the advice being offered.

[movingforward]

The thought of working until 70 makes me want to vomit. I can't imagine working past 58 max. Ideally, not past 56. I actually like my job too so I really can't imagine those that hate their jobs having to work until the age of 70. That must be complete misery. 

I feel really lucky in that I have a great job. For me, it's more about being young enough and having the time to devote to other things. Working full-time doesn't allow for extended trips. I would like stay in Ireland for a few months (I am told 90 days is all you are allowed). I also would like to spend 4-6 weeks traveling around New Zealand and Australia. Traveling can be hard on ones body. I would prefer to do really long flights like to New Zealand while in my 50's if possible. I hope to still be able to travel in my 60's and 70's but I don't have a crystal ball. Who knows what will happen...

That's not to say I wouldn't take on some temp/contract work here or there. I just don't want to be tied to a permanent job forever. 

[busymom]

DH will probably work until 70, but that's who he is.  I cannot imagine him slowing down at all, even once he decides he's had enough on the job.  Hoping he won't drive me crazy.  I'm gonna have to be sure he has a hobby, or three...  

[Pink Cashmere]

May 29, 2024 15:41:34 GMT -5 movingforward said:

The thought of working until 70 makes me want to vomit. I can't imagine working past 58 max. Ideally, not past 56. I actually like my job too so I really can't imagine those that hate their jobs having to work until the age of 70. That must be complete misery. 

I feel really lucky in that I have a great job. For me, it's more about being young enough and having the time to devote to other things. Working full-time doesn't allow for extended trips. I would like stay in Ireland for a few months (I am told 90 days is all you are allowed). I also would like to spend 4-6 weeks traveling around New Zealand and Australia. Traveling can be hard on ones body. I would prefer to do really long flights like to New Zealand while in my 50's if possible. I hope to still be able to travel in my 60's and 70's but I don't have a crystal ball. Who knows what will happen...

That's not to say I wouldn't take on some temp/contract work here or there. I just don't want to be tied to a permanent job forever. 

Yeah, if I knew now that I absolutely had to work until I am 70yo, I would just give up and resign from my job tomorrow. I am not joking.

Since I can’t even wrap my mind around working until I’m 60yo, 70yo is completely out of the question. Completely.

I have 7 years left, at most. I will be 59yo in 7 years. That is me acknowledging that I may need to work a couple of extra years to make retirement make sense or just be more comfortable. I prefer to plan for a couple of years more, if necessary, and be pleasantly surprised if I don’t need those 2 extra years, vs the other way around. If I can make the numbers work when I first become eligible at 57yo, I am out. DONE! The doorknob can hit me where the good Lord split me on my way out the door, and imma just rub my ass and be glad that I am DONE.

[Pink Cashmere]

May 29, 2024 16:05:29 GMT -5 busymom said:

DH will probably work until 70, but that's who he is.  I cannot imagine him slowing down at all, even once he decides he's had enough on the job.  Hoping he won't drive me crazy.  I'm gonna have to be sure he has a hobby, or three...  

I have a coworker that is planning to retire in 2 years. He and his wife were high school sweethearts, married now for about 30 years, and his wife has always been a SAHM. They are in couples counseling now, because he feels like they need to work out some kinks before he retires and is home all day every day. Nothing major, just things he doesn’t want to get worse once the dynamics change. And surprisingly, he admits that what has come out in counseling, has shown him that he is the cause of a lot of the kinks. Where do they make people like him, is what I wanna know. 

[TheOtherMe]

My parents retired at age 62.  On their first visit to me in Colorado, all they did was argue.  All dad wanted to do is watch game shows and play along--all day.  Mom had retired a few months earlier than him and she was fine with knitting or crocheting.  The game shows drove her crazy.

She later told me that was the only time in their 67 year marriage she seriously considered a divorce.  They had never lived together 24/7 in their lives and she said it was very hard.

He quit the game shows in about a year.

[movingforward]

May 29, 2024 18:36:07 GMT -5 TheOtherMe said:

My parents retired at age 62.  On their first visit to me in Colorado, all they did was argue.  All dad wanted to do is watch game shows and play along--all day.  Mom had retired a few months earlier than him and she was fine with knitting or crocheting.  The game shows drove her crazy.

She later told me that was the only time in their 67 year marriage she seriously considered a divorce.  They had never lived together 24/7 in their lives and she said it was very hard.

He quit the game shows in about a year.

My mom retired at 60 and dad at 62. Dad had to develop a "man cave." He wanted to watch news on all day and play games on his computer. Mom wanted to watch The View in the mornings, read her books in the afternoon or listen to music. They ended up with a decent routine where they had breakfast together, sometimes out and sometimes at home, then did their own thing for a bit. Came back together for dinner, evening walk and prime time TV.

[nidena]

Interesting dive into some very quick numbers via a google search does show that 10% have one million dollars but that's 10% of the people with retirement savings.  Only 54% of Americans have retirement accounts, according to Nerd Wallet.

I don't know when I'll "retire" retire since I already have perpetual income (knock wood) through my military retirement but I'm considering taking SS before age 70 because "Why not?"  My Early benefit is $1137, Full is $1615, and Delayed is $2002.  Cumulatively, Early is better from the way my math works.

[The Walk of the Penguin Mich]

May 29, 2024 21:00:03 GMT -5 nidena said:

Interesting dive into some very quick numbers via a google search does show that 10% have one million dollars but that's 10% of the people with retirement savings.  Only 54% of Americans have retirement accounts, according to Nerd Wallet.

I don't know when I'll "retire" retire since I already have perpetual income (knock wood) through my military retirement but I'm considering taking SS before age 70 because "Why not?"  My Early benefit is $1137, Full is $1615, and Delayed is $2002.  Cumulatively, Early is better from the way my math works.

Roughly 40% of Americans are under 24 years of age.  Unless this 54% is qualified someplace, then that accounts for roughly 94% of Americans.  

[tallguy]

May 29, 2024 23:35:22 GMT -5 The Walk of the Penguin Mich said:

May 29, 2024 21:00:03 GMT -5 nidena said:

Interesting dive into some very quick numbers via a google search does show that 10% have one million dollars but that's 10% of the people with retirement savings.  Only 54% of Americans have retirement accounts, according to Nerd Wallet.

I don't know when I'll "retire" retire since I already have perpetual income (knock wood) through my military retirement but I'm considering taking SS before age 70 because "Why not?"  My Early benefit is $1137, Full is $1615, and Delayed is $2002.  Cumulatively, Early is better from the way my math works.

Roughly 40% of Americans are under 24 years of age.  Unless this 54% is qualified someplace, then that accounts for roughly 94% of Americans.  

54.4% of American families hold retirement accounts, according to the link.  It goes on to list percentages, averages, and medians for a series of ten-year age ranges.  Interestingly, the highest percentage of families with retirement accounts headed by someone in a particular age range was 62%. 

[svwashout]

More advice from Suze, maybe not about retirement per se, but it could be connected in the worst-case. This one I can get behind:
finance.yahoo.com/news/suze-orman-says-never-more-183012144.html
Suze Orman Says "Never Take Out More Than What Your First Year Out Of College Will Pay You"
Orman believes that student loan debt is one of the worst kinds of debt you can incur. She bluntly said, "Student loans are the most dangerous loans you can have, bar none."

We've all heard how a relatively small looking lump of savings accumulated early in life can grow into a surprisingly large retirement balance if left invested after many decades of compounding returns. My take is the flipside is also true, a large debt incurred as a teenager can do a surprising amount of damage over time if not paid off quickly. What's especially onerous about this kind of debt is the uncertainty about where it leads. The mostly very young people who sign up for these loans can't be sure whether they will complete their degrees, and an unfinished degree adds little to future earnings prospects. Even if degree completion is assured, the financial impact may be uncertain, especially in some fields where supply/demand changes quickly and unpredictably.

[haapai]

I agree that we're doing something terrible to our kids and our future by saddling them with so much student loan debt at such an early age.  On the other hand, good financial advice rarely includes the word "never".  Suze spouts a lot of "nevers". 

[TheOtherMe]

May 29, 2024 19:43:28 GMT -5 movingforward said:

May 29, 2024 18:36:07 GMT -5 TheOtherMe said:

My parents retired at age 62.  On their first visit to me in Colorado, all they did was argue.  All dad wanted to do is watch game shows and play along--all day.  Mom had retired a few months earlier than him and she was fine with knitting or crocheting.  The game shows drove her crazy.

She later told me that was the only time in their 67 year marriage she seriously considered a divorce.  They had never lived together 24/7 in their lives and she said it was very hard.

He quit the game shows in about a year.

My mom retired at 60 and dad at 62. Dad had to develop a "man cave." He wanted to watch news on all day and play games on his computer. Mom wanted to watch The View in the mornings, read her books in the afternoon or listen to music. They ended up with a decent routine where they had breakfast together, sometimes out and sometimes at home, then did their own thing for a bit. Came back together for dinner, evening walk and prime time TV.

My parents got to where they only watched the news during the daytime.  They had one soap they watched, but it was a 30 minute one.  They each took a nap after that and the tv stayed off again until the evening when they had to watch Jeopardy and Wheel.  

Mom's sisters came once a week to town for grocery shopping and stopped to play cards.  They went out for lunch several days a week until mom's health failed.  

They worked out things.  Dad mowed every 3rd day whether it needed it or not and he washed his car numerous times a week.

He also had days of the week that he would go visit his siblings.  They took walks on their block.  They learned to enjoy each other's company again after the adjustment time.

[NomoreDramaQ1015]

May 29, 2024 18:36:07 GMT -5 TheOtherMe said:

My parents retired at age 62.  On their first visit to me in Colorado, all they did was argue.  All dad wanted to do is watch game shows and play along--all day.  Mom had retired a few months earlier than him and she was fine with knitting or crocheting.  The game shows drove her crazy.

She later told me that was the only time in their 67 year marriage she seriously considered a divorce.  They had never lived together 24/7 in their lives and she said it was very hard.

He quit the game shows in about a year.

Something similar happened when my dad quit his day job to devote his time to the business so he was home with my mom.  She said they had to learn to live together all over again.  She said for the first few months they practically hated each other.  It was a major adjustment.

[teen persuasion]

I was pleasantly surprised at how well DH and I got along during the Covid lockdown being together 24/7. He taught one more school year, and then retired.

Now roles are reversed - he's SAHS, and I'm suddenly working full time with a crazy schedule and unexpected work stuff coming up. So he's making dinner and doing laundry, etc. But he also loves the freedom to go for a run most mornings (started during lockdown). Yesterday was beautiful, he decided to walk into the village to meet me as I finished up work, and we could ride home together. Not driving each other crazy, yet

I was already planning just a few more years of working. This new situation at work might accelerate that. T and I are supporting each other RN, but we are both *this close* to retirement - her DH just retired from teaching too, and is looking to enjoy spending time with her. He's got a smaller pension (started late), but I don't think they've got much extra saved, so she's working for a bit more money.