Another example of why "orders of protection" do not work

[daisylu]

Tell me again how gun reform is not the issue. link

Amber Rodriguez was "terrified" in the weeks before she died and had been granted an order of protection against Elias Huizar, her ex-husband, who was accused of fatally shooting her outside the elementary school where she worked on the day his teenage girlfriend was found dead in Washington state.



Rodriguez filed for divorce from Huizar in December 2020, Tara Symons told NBC News. Symons was appointed as the guardian ad litem in the divorce proceedings to handle custody issues involving their children.



Rodriguez was killed outside William Wiley Elementary School in West Richland on Monday, a little over a year after her divorce was finalized on April 7, 2023, Symons said.



Court documents say a gunman wearing black clothing and a black hat shot Rodriguez, 31, as classes were being let out shortly before 3:30 p.m.



The pair's 9-year-old son witnessed the killing, the court filing says. They have one other child together.



Later that day, police found the body of Angelica Santos, 17, whom police described as Huizar's "girlfriend."

It is early in the investigation and no mention yet if he owned the gun before the OOP or if it was obtained illegally. I understand that states have different rules for OOPs, but IMO everyone should agree that if an OOP is issued all firearms should be confiscated. Dude was CLEARLY not a "nice guy with a gun".

That poor 9YO, to have to have witnessed that. I pray that the 1YO does not retain any memory from the ordeal, but it is still in the record books so they will undoubtedly have to deal with it in the future.

[Sharon]

This guy was truly scum all the way through.  He was a former police officer who met his "girlfriend" when he was a school resource officer and impregnated her when she was 15.  He was due in court on charges of rape the day the shootings occurred.

[Artemis Windsong]

The police did not do due diligence on this man's mental health. 

[Tiny]

Just thinking outloud about the situation:  

Amber Rodriguez would not have benefited from owning a gun "for protection" in this case. 

How come there's no gun toting group that would volunteer to be bodyguards for someone who needs a  order of protection  and where their lawyer or the judge wishes they could do more because of the threat but cannot under the law?  The gun toting group could be heroes and sing the joys and honor of owning firearms to protect others.  


On the other hand - would a trained bodyguard be willing to take on this kind of job - even if well paid?  They would know the order of protection was against a serious threat. 

[toomuchreality]

🥀 I hope the guy rots in prison and is taken advantage of constantly, for hurting and taking advantage of others.

I've met exprisoners who were nicer than he is.

[scgal]

Apr 25, 2024 7:24:47 GMT -5 daisylu said:

Tell me again how gun reform is not the issue. link

Amber Rodriguez was "terrified" in the weeks before she died and had been granted an order of protection against Elias Huizar, her ex-husband, who was accused of fatally shooting her outside the elementary school where she worked on the day his teenage girlfriend was found dead in Washington state.



Rodriguez filed for divorce from Huizar in December 2020, Tara Symons told NBC News. Symons was appointed as the guardian ad litem in the divorce proceedings to handle custody issues involving their children.



Rodriguez was killed outside William Wiley Elementary School in West Richland on Monday, a little over a year after her divorce was finalized on April 7, 2023, Symons said.



Court documents say a gunman wearing black clothing and a black hat shot Rodriguez, 31, as classes were being let out shortly before 3:30 p.m.



The pair's 9-year-old son witnessed the killing, the court filing says. They have one other child together.



Later that day, police found the body of Angelica Santos, 17, whom police described as Huizar's "girlfriend."

It is early in the investigation and no mention yet if he owned the gun before the OOP or if it was obtained illegally. I understand that states have different rules for OOPs, but IMO everyone should agree that if an OOP is issued all firearms should be confiscated. Dude was CLEARLY not a "nice guy with a gun".

That poor 9YO, to have to have witnessed that. I pray that the 1YO does not retain any memory from the ordeal, but it is still in the record books so they will undoubtedly have to deal with it in the future.

There we go again with blaming guns. What would you blame it on if he beat her to death instead? You do know most restraining orders are broken by the offender beats the victim. Here is something from personal experience. I help counsel domestic violence victims and often get called to domestic violence scenes. One particular woman I was working with was having lunch when her "boyfriend" who she had a restraining order on came up to the table (sitting outside) yanked her and started hitting her I pulled my handgun he immediately stopped and ran off. Here is where a handgun saved a woman. This happened 9 months ago he was arrested for the violating the RO and received 3 years on his other offences. 

[daisylu]

Apr 26, 2024 10:17:34 GMT -5 scgal said:

Apr 25, 2024 7:24:47 GMT -5 daisylu said:

Tell me again how gun reform is not the issue. link



It is early in the investigation and no mention yet if he owned the gun before the OOP or if it was obtained illegally. I understand that states have different rules for OOPs, but IMO everyone should agree that if an OOP is issued all firearms should be confiscated. Dude was CLEARLY not a "nice guy with a gun".

That poor 9YO, to have to have witnessed that. I pray that the 1YO does not retain any memory from the ordeal, but it is still in the record books so they will undoubtedly have to deal with it in the future.

There we go again with blaming guns. What would you blame it on if he beat her to death instead? You do know most restraining orders are broken by the offender beats the victim. Here is something from personal experience. I help counsel domestic violence victims and often get called to domestic violence scenes. One particular woman I was working with was having lunch when her "boyfriend" who she had a restraining order on came up to the table (sitting outside) yanked her and started hitting her I pulled my handgun he immediately stopped and ran off. Here is where a handgun saved a woman. This happened 9 months ago he was arrested for the violating the RO and received 3 years on his other offences. 

Tone deaf, as usual. I NEVER BLAMED GUNS. I BLAME THE LEGAL SYSTEM FOR DOING DUE DILIGENCE. I stated the investigation is in the early phase, so no idea if it was his legally obtained gun or if he stole it, purchased on the streets, whatever. IF IT WAS HIS LEGALLY OBTAINED GUN PRIOR TO THE OOP IT SHOULD HAVE BEEN CONFISCATED. 

You do know most restraining orders are broken by the offender beats the victim

Stats, links? In the 70s, 80s, yes. I also work with domestic abuse women, so your anecdote means zero to me.

[billisonboard]

You do know most restraining orders are broken by the offender beats the victim.

Therefore we should not worry about the ones where a gun is used (?).

[pulmonarymd]

And again ignore the fact that situations where a gun is used(such as this, and in cases of suicides), the outcome is far morelikely to be fatal. But because some of these case do result in fatalities, "it can't be a guns fault".

[toomuchreality]

How often in those beating cases, does a gun get used in the end?

Sure, there are times a gun helps a person. No one disputes that. The problem is when a person ends up dead, because someone used a gun that shouldn't have.

Notice, I blamed the person, not the gun? 😊

[pulmonarymd]

Gun fanatics also rail against red flag laws. They claim that mental illness is the problem, not guns, but then are against a law that can actually take guns away from people who might use them to kill someone. Can't have any laws that might interfere with gunowners "right", even if it affects our "right to life".

[scgal]

Apr 26, 2024 11:38:05 GMT -5 pulmonarymd said:

Gun fanatics also rail against red flag laws. They claim that mental illness is the problem, not guns, but then are against a law that can actually take guns away from people who might use them to kill someone. Can't have any laws that might interfere with gunowners "right", even if it affects our "right to life".

Now you are starting to understand

[scgal]

Apr 26, 2024 10:38:12 GMT -5 billisonboard said:

You do know most restraining orders are broken by the offender beats the victim.

Therefore we should not worry about the ones where a gun is used (?).

That correct in this case he was an ex police officer he probably had a legal firearm a restraining order should not have violated his right to own a firearm

[billisonboard]

Apr 26, 2024 12:15:41 GMT -5 scgal said:

Apr 26, 2024 10:38:12 GMT -5 billisonboard said:

You do know most restraining orders are broken by the offender beats the victim.

Therefore we should not worry about the ones where a gun is used (?).

That correct in this case he was an ex police officer he probably had a legal firearm a restraining order should not have violated his right to own a firearm

Why was he an "ex" police officer? I can think of multiple reasons why a person might no longer by employed nor employable as a police officer which make it a very good idea they not have a gun.

[pulmonarymd]

Apr 26, 2024 12:14:22 GMT -5 scgal said:

Apr 26, 2024 11:38:05 GMT -5 pulmonarymd said:

Gun fanatics also rail against red flag laws. They claim that mental illness is the problem, not guns, but then are against a law that can actually take guns away from people who might use them to kill someone. Can't have any laws that might interfere with gunowners "right", even if it affects our "right to life".

Now you are starting to understand

So, an ex police office who makes a threat to shoot someone and tells a psychiatrist he has a plan in detail, has a right to continue to have that weapon. But the psychiatrist can be sued if he fails to warn about a credible threat. But you are incapable of seeing the absurdity of that position

[daisylu]

Apr 26, 2024 12:15:41 GMT -5 scgal said:

Apr 26, 2024 10:38:12 GMT -5 billisonboard said:

You do know most restraining orders are broken by the offender beats the victim.

Therefore we should not worry about the ones where a gun is used (?).

That correct in this case he was an ex police officer he probably had a legal firearm a restraining order should not have violated his right to own a firearm

THAT IS EXACTLY WHAT A RESTRAINING ORDER SHOULD DO. 2 people would likely still be alive IF HIS FIREARM WAS TAKEN BY THE COURT.  

I can fight off a man, I can not fight a firearm. 

[mollyanna58]

Here is another thread which will go on for pages and pages while people try to get someone who has no interest in hearing anything but their own opinion to understand facts.  Why bother? 

[Tiny]

Apr 26, 2024 10:17:34 GMT -5 scgal said:

Apr 25, 2024 7:24:47 GMT -5 daisylu said:

Tell me again how gun reform is not the issue. link



It is early in the investigation and no mention yet if he owned the gun before the OOP or if it was obtained illegally. I understand that states have different rules for OOPs, but IMO everyone should agree that if an OOP is issued all firearms should be confiscated. Dude was CLEARLY not a "nice guy with a gun".

That poor 9YO, to have to have witnessed that. I pray that the 1YO does not retain any memory from the ordeal, but it is still in the record books so they will undoubtedly have to deal with it in the future.

There we go again with blaming guns. What would you blame it on if he beat her to death instead? You do know most restraining orders are broken by the offender beats the victim. Here is something from personal experience. I help counsel domestic violence victims and often get called to domestic violence scenes. One particular woman I was working with was having lunch when her "boyfriend" who she had a restraining order on came up to the table (sitting outside) yanked her and started hitting her I pulled my handgun he immediately stopped and ran off. Here is where a handgun saved a woman. This happened 9 months ago he was arrested for the violating the RO and received 3 years on his other offences. 

Guns are convenient you don't have to be near who ever it is you want to shoot.  And you can conveniently shoot other people who happen to be in range if you want to (and sometimes if you don't).   

I'm glad you were able to scare off an UNARMED person with your gun.    What would you have done if instead of coming up to the outside table he a gun and had opted to drive by and spray bullets at the outside tables hoping to hit his ex?     What if you had been shot?    How would you feel about this guy having access to a gun(s)??  

I guess he could have also driven his vehicle into the outside diners...    

But guns are much more personal and statement making - it's more "manly" to shoot someone than to intentionally drive your car into them.  

 

[Tiny]

Apr 26, 2024 12:59:45 GMT -5 mollyanna58 said:

Here is another thread which will go on for pages and pages while people try to get someone who has no interest in hearing anything but their own opinion to understand facts.  Why bother? 

This is true.

But we never discuss WHY someone would opt to use a gun - when there are other ways they could end the life of the person(s) they are after.

A solid tap on the head from a heavy object. Drive their car into them. Strangulation. Smother them with a pillow while they sleep. Stab them with a knife. perhaps a bit of antifreeze in their smoothie or cocktail. Drown them in the pool (or bathtub). an intentional drug overdose. Why go with a gun?    If you are angry enough, seeking vindication that the other person "must pay" or whatever other reason you feel vindicated to take their life - why choose a gun?  It's not like you are trying to get away with murder.   Especially like in the OP - he killed her in front of witnesses. 

[pulmonarymd]

Apr 26, 2024 13:17:02 GMT -5 Tiny said:

Apr 26, 2024 12:59:45 GMT -5 mollyanna58 said:

Here is another thread which will go on for pages and pages while people try to get someone who has no interest in hearing anything but their own opinion to understand facts.  Why bother? 

This is true.

But we never discuss WHY someone would opt to use a gun - when there are other ways they could end the life of the person(s) they are after.

A solid tap on the head from a heavy object. Drive their car into them. Strangulation. Smother them with a pillow while they sleep. Stab them with a knife. perhaps a bit of antifreeze in their smoothie or cocktail. Drown them in the pool (or bathtub). an intentional drug overdose. Why go with a gun?    If you are angry enough, seeking vindication that the other person "must pay" or whatever other reason you feel vindicated to take their life - why choose a gun?  It's not like you are trying to get away with murder.   Especially like in the OP - he killed her in front of witnesses. 

Because you want to kill them. It is easier than doing the other things you point out. It has a higher likelihood of being effective.

[billisonboard]

Many of the discussed methods require a movement towards the victim while shooting someone requires a physical movement away from the victim. That is a significant psychological difference.

[tallguy]

Apr 26, 2024 13:17:02 GMT -5 Tiny said:

Apr 26, 2024 12:59:45 GMT -5 mollyanna58 said:

Here is another thread which will go on for pages and pages while people try to get someone who has no interest in hearing anything but their own opinion to understand facts.  Why bother? 

This is true.

But we never discuss WHY someone would opt to use a gun - when there are other ways they could end the life of the person(s) they are after.

A solid tap on the head from a heavy object. Drive their car into them. Strangulation. Smother them with a pillow while they sleep. Stab them with a knife. perhaps a bit of antifreeze in their smoothie or cocktail. Drown them in the pool (or bathtub). an intentional drug overdose. Why go with a gun?    If you are angry enough, seeking vindication that the other person "must pay" or whatever other reason you feel vindicated to take their life - why choose a gun?  It's not like you are trying to get away with murder.   Especially like in the OP - he killed her in front of witnesses. 

Because those other methods actually require some effort to both face your victim and to come up with and perform the act.  Face it, gun users are lazy, unimaginative cowards.   

[Tennesseer]

Just another typical couple of days here in Memphis.  First video last weekend.  Second video just the other day.

[toomuchreality]

Apr 26, 2024 16:56:48 GMT -5 Tennesseer said:

Just another typical couple of days here in Memphis.  First video last weekend.  Second video just the other day.

Horrible!

[Tennesseer]

Apr 26, 2024 19:22:10 GMT -5 toomuchreality said:

Apr 26, 2024 16:56:48 GMT -5 Tennesseer said:

Just another typical couple of days here in Memphis.  First video last weekend.  Second video just the other day.

Horrible!

Earlier a child was found shot and on the ground here in Memphis. No one around to claim him. Critical condition.

Just another day of innocent victims in Memphis.

[toomuchreality]

Apr 26, 2024 19:28:53 GMT -5 Tennesseer said:

Apr 26, 2024 19:22:10 GMT -5 toomuchreality said:

Horrible!

Earlier a child was found shot and on the ground here in Memphis. No one around to claim him. Critical condition.

Just another day of innocent victims in Memphis.

😳 🥀 Sad.

[swamp]

Apr 25, 2024 7:24:47 GMT -5 daisylu said:

Tell me again how gun reform is not the issue. link

Amber Rodriguez was "terrified" in the weeks before she died and had been granted an order of protection against Elias Huizar, her ex-husband, who was accused of fatally shooting her outside the elementary school where she worked on the day his teenage girlfriend was found dead in Washington state.



Rodriguez filed for divorce from Huizar in December 2020, Tara Symons told NBC News. Symons was appointed as the guardian ad litem in the divorce proceedings to handle custody issues involving their children.



Rodriguez was killed outside William Wiley Elementary School in West Richland on Monday, a little over a year after her divorce was finalized on April 7, 2023, Symons said.



Court documents say a gunman wearing black clothing and a black hat shot Rodriguez, 31, as classes were being let out shortly before 3:30 p.m.



The pair's 9-year-old son witnessed the killing, the court filing says. They have one other child together.



Later that day, police found the body of Angelica Santos, 17, whom police described as Huizar's "girlfriend."

It is early in the investigation and no mention yet if he owned the gun before the OOP or if it was obtained illegally. I understand that states have different rules for OOPs, but IMO everyone should agree that if an OOP is issued all firearms should be confiscated. Dude was CLEARLY not a "nice guy with a gun".

That poor 9YO, to have to have witnessed that. I pray that the 1YO does not retain any memory from the ordeal, but it is still in the record books so they will undoubtedly have to deal with it in the future.

It is federal law that guns need to be confiscated and you cannot purchase another one while an order of protection is pending. 

[scgal]

Apr 26, 2024 14:50:51 GMT -5 tallguy said:

Apr 26, 2024 13:17:02 GMT -5 Tiny said:

This is true.

But we never discuss WHY someone would opt to use a gun - when there are other ways they could end the life of the person(s) they are after.

A solid tap on the head from a heavy object. Drive their car into them. Strangulation. Smother them with a pillow while they sleep. Stab them with a knife. perhaps a bit of antifreeze in their smoothie or cocktail. Drown them in the pool (or bathtub). an intentional drug overdose. Why go with a gun?    If you are angry enough, seeking vindication that the other person "must pay" or whatever other reason you feel vindicated to take their life - why choose a gun?  It's not like you are trying to get away with murder.   Especially like in the OP - he killed her in front of witnesses. 

Because those other methods actually require some effort to both face your victim and to come up with and perform the act.  Face it, gun users are lazy, unimaginative cowards.   

Guns are a tool, that tool can be used for sport shooting, hunting, protection and yes people can kill other people but it is still just a tool no different than a screwdriver or hammer. 
We are going to build a gun "tool" this gun will have 16 shot mini mag, infrared nite scope, and a 5 baffle suppressor. Thats right semi auto rifle that can be super quiet and you can see your target in the dead of nite. Why would anyone would want that you may ask it doesn't matter I want it and i'm allow to have it. 

[billisonboard]

Apr 27, 2024 8:48:41 GMT -5 scgal said:

Apr 26, 2024 14:50:51 GMT -5 tallguy said:

Because those other methods actually require some effort to both face your victim and to come up with and perform the act.  Face it, gun users are lazy, unimaginative cowards.   

Guns are a tool, that tool can be used for sport shooting, hunting, protection and yes people can kill other people but it is still just a tool no different than a screwdriver or hammer. 
We are going to build a gun "tool" this gun will have 16 shot mini mag, infrared nite scope, and a 5 baffle suppressor. Thats right semi auto rifle that can be super quiet and you can see your target in the dead of nite. Why would anyone would want that you may ask it doesn't matter I want it and i'm allow to have it. 

Is that really as extreme a weapon as you can come up with to jerk someone's chain?

[Tennesseer]

Apr 27, 2024 8:48:41 GMT -5 scgal said:

Apr 26, 2024 14:50:51 GMT -5 tallguy said:

Because those other methods actually require some effort to both face your victim and to come up with and perform the act.  Face it, gun users are lazy, unimaginative cowards.   

Guns are a tool, that tool can be used for sport shooting, hunting, protection and yes people can kill other people but it is still just a tool no different than a screwdriver or hammer. 
We are going to build a gun "tool" this gun will have 16 shot mini mag, infrared nite scope, and a 5 baffle suppressor. Thats right semi auto rifle that can be super quiet and you can see your target in the dead of nite. Why would anyone would want that you may ask it doesn't matter I want it and i'm allow to have it. 

A potential victim has a chance to fight off an attacker with "a screwdriver or hammer". A potential victim does not have a chance to fight off an attacker with a firearm who is standing 15 feet away.