Medical question

[thyme4change]

I got some puzzle pieces of a situation and it makes no sense to me - maybe someone here can help. Let me set out the players:

Friend - let’s call her Wilma
Her husband - Fred (in his late 30’s)
His coworker - Barney

Barney and Fred work with toxic chemicals in an uncontrolled environment. They do wear protective gear, but there is still risk.

Barney got cancer and convinced all the coworkers to get tested. I think his cancer was thyroid- but I could be wrong.

Fred gets tested and has cancer, but they won’t know how bad it is until they do surgery (I’m guessing a biopsy- but again, the information is so spotty.) Fred is going to all doc appointments and testing alone - so the info we got is from Wilma who got it from Fred who got it from either Barney or a doctor. Also, my husband heard part of the story and I heard part of the story - so we are seriously hindered for reliable facts.

I asked when he would get surgery and Wilma said they didn’t know, and it took Barney 9 months to get the surgery after he got his test. And his test was worse than Fred’s test, so it may be longer.

None of this makes sense to me. I know our healthcare system is fucked - but do they really wait 9 or more months to get a cancer diagnosis? Does he actually have cancer or do they just see some warning signs in whatever test he took? Does any of this sound close to something that might actually be happening?

[msventoux]

Not sure in this instance but I have a relative that the doctor suspected had laryngeal cancer. From initial exam to biopsy was maybe a week and within a couple weeks they had major surgery. It happened quicker than I thought it would. It was determined to be stage 4 somewhere along the way, maybe that was why things progressed so quickly. It seems odd that it would take 9 months from diagnosis to surgery unless there were other underlying medical issues that need treated or resolved in order to safely get the surgery. 

[Tiny]

Apr 23, 2024 20:14:41 GMT -5 thyme4change said:

 
I asked when he would get surgery and Wilma said they didn’t know, and it took Barney 9 months to get the surgery after he got his test. And his test was worse than Fred’s test, so it may be longer.

None of this makes sense to me. I know our healthcare system is fucked - but do they really wait 9 or more months to get a cancer diagnosis? Does he actually have cancer or do they just see some warning signs in whatever test he took? Does any of this sound close to something that might actually be happening?

Do they live somewhere where hospitals/doctors are very far away and where there are not enough hospitals/doctors?  I live in a densely populated urban area with lots of hospitals/doctors (and all the offices/clinics/what not that goes with them).   Mid 2023 thru current has been really rough - with lots of friends and family getting a cancer diagnosis (everyone is 60yo thru 80yo) and it seems that if cancer is suspected the tests happen fairly quickly (within 4 to 6 weeks) after which they either have a "wait and see" result or they start on some course of treatment for the cancer - which may not include surgery. 

Do they have healthcare coverage?  If you don't have healthcare coverage (atleast where I live) you don't get access to the middle of the road doctors/hospitals and wait times/scheduling is more difficult takes longer.   If you do have healthcare coverage - it depends on your plan/coverage and what level of doctors/hospitals you have access to for how long it takes to get treatment.   Depending on your coverage you might not be much better off than those who don't have healthcare coverage but who seek treatment.         It may just be a matter of what State they live in.    

For the most part the hardest part is getting the first appointment to see a doctor (if you don't regularly go to the doctor). I went "feral" and hadn't been to a doctor in more than 3 years. I couldn't get an appointment less than 8 weeks out into the future. Once I got in the "system" again - follow up appts were pretty quick and easy to get anytime i wanted. I did have to schedule a well woman exam with an OBGyn 3 months in the future (it was the soonest I could get). 


Right now: 
A relative is dealing with lung cancer and some brain tumors (that tend to go along with lung cancer) and they've only had two "in patient" minor procedures to diagnosis the lung cancer and to find the brain tumors.   From there it was radiation/chemotherapy and the never ending follow up visits - and so far so good on the treatment.    

Another relative recently had a kidney removed - the cancer was diagnosed after 4 weeks and an inpatient "something procedure" to get part of the kidney to "biopsy".  Once the type of cancer was determined and that removing the kidney was the best plan --  it was less than 3 weeks to get the actual surgery scheduled and done.    and so far a good outcome.  not sure what radiation/chemo or what was involved if any.   

Another has prostate cancer - but is expected to live many many many more years with minimal treatment. 

I guess what I'm hinting at - is what does "surgery" mean - getting the tumor/whatever sampled and tested?  or the actual "removing the cancer surgically"?   The initial tests seems to happen fairly quickly - but then where I live there are whole buildings on hospital campuses (or near by) dedicated to getting people the basic "tests" needed for diagnosising whatever it is you might have.    

If you know the organ involved  that might be the way to research what MIGHT be involved and may answer some of your questions. 
What part of the body the cancer is effecting (or is believed to effect) might indicate what kind of treatment is required.  

[thyme4change]

[mention]atsiaru [/mention] - all good thoughts.

They live close to at least 4 hospitals and could drive to dozens more in less than 45 minutes. I would think this might be an outpatient surgery - but clearly I don’t know what is going on.

They do have insurance. Wilma told me previously it was very good insurance- but I got no details, and she had been on the open market, so who knows what she was comparing it to.

Wilma said he was going to “all the dr appointments” (plural) alone, so having a doctor doesn’t seem to be the problem. Plus he already got initial testing of some kind. Wouldn’t you need a medical professional to order that?

The whole thing seems so weird

[Tiny]

Apr 24, 2024 9:22:34 GMT -5 thyme4change said:

Wilma said he was going to “all the dr appointments” (plural) alone, so having a doctor doesn’t seem to be the problem. Plus he already got initial testing of some kind. Wouldn’t you need a medical professional to order that?

The whole thing seems so weird

It may just be a semantics thing.   I've heard people refer to outpatient surgery where the entire thing from getting to the hospital/clinic to being able to leave for home would take 8 hours  as a "Dr. Appointment".   And they didn't mention they had a high chance of being kept overnight depending on how the surgery went.    It was talked about like they had a 8am appointment and they'd be home by 9:30am.     On the other hand, I've also heard my overly dramatic friend call having a dental procedure done as "surgery"-  and OK, it was surgery - it was done at the dentist's office and the appointment took less than 60 minutes.  And they were able to drive to and from the appointment.  And recovery wasn't complicated.   The way they said they were having surgery next week wednesday and they wouldn't be able to go to the party the Saturday after that made it sound really dramatic like they'd be in the hospital and that's why they couldn't go to the party on saturday.     I know why they didn't want to go to the party - they couldn't really eat and drink in "party mode".     I guess maybe it's a "know the person who saying stuff, so you can filter/translate/ask more questions" kind of thing. 

But back to the topic: 
The Dr. Appointments might be cancer treatments  - as they might being going every week or every 10 days.  And depending on the treatment you can drive yourself there, get the treatment, and then drive yourself home.    The 9 months thing MIGHT be that if the cancer treatment isn't as successful as the doctors would like it to be - then surgery might be required.   I can see where treatment might go 3 to 6 months and then the wait a bit and retest happens.   perhaps surgery is something in the plan - if the first course and maybe a second course of less invasive treatments (3 to 6 months)  don't work as well as expected.   The doctors may not know if surgery is an option/needed until they go through all the "most likely to solve the problem" courses of action.  I'm betting once it's determined surgery is required it happens in a timely fashion.   
   

Cancer and it's treatments aren't what they were 20 or 30 years ago.   Especially when it's discovered/diagnosed early.  There are lots of treatment plans that do not include surgery (as in removing the cancerous stuff).  or long hospital stays for treatment.  There are lots of people you are passing by or talking to in everyday life who you would never suspect are being treated for cancer.    

FWIW:  The relative who had a kidney removed was in the hospital overnight and then went home to recover.   A week after the surgery they were doing routine day to day stuff (not strenuous stuff).   

A relative recently died from pancreatic cancer (which is one of the bad/fast ones).  And for them it was fast - less than 6 months from diagnosis to death.    I don't want to victim blame - but they were morbidly obese for decades, did the minimum to deal with type2 diabetes, and avoided medical care at all costs.   They died at 60yo.   At least it was quick-ish.  From what I heard there wasn't much that could be done - the relative wasn't ever well enough to make treatments easy.    

[TheOtherMe]

In my limited expierence, if cancer patients get treatment quickly.  9 months with no treatment may leave no options

[wvugurl26]

My aunt was diagnosed with cancer that had spread to other organs in early October. She had surgery MLK day. They did chemo first to shrink the tumors. Then she had to wait 3 weeks after last chemo session because one of the drugs in the chemo cocktail is a blood thinner. She also fired the first oncology surgeon because he wanted to do surgery first and the oncologist didn't agree.

Second surgery will be in June. Second round of chemo will finish in May. At the time of January surgery they had both needed surgeons (one for each organ) there but the first one took way too long. Took 4 hours longer than they planned for doing both.

I agree it sounds weird but getting information third or fourth hand makes it hard to know for sure. In 9 months, my aunt will have finished 2 separate surgeries and 2 rounds of chemo.

[thyme4change]

Apr 24, 2024 14:15:50 GMT -5 Tiny said:

Apr 24, 2024 9:22:34 GMT -5 thyme4change said:

Wilma said he was going to “all the dr appointments” (plural) alone, so having a doctor doesn’t seem to be the problem. Plus he already got initial testing of some kind. Wouldn’t you need a medical professional to order that?

The whole thing seems so weird

It may just be a semantics thing.   I've heard people refer to outpatient surgery where the entire thing from getting to the hospital/clinic to being able to leave for home would take 8 hours  as a "Dr. Appointment".   And they didn't mention they had a high chance of being kept overnight depending on how the surgery went.    It was talked about like they had a 8am appointment and they'd be home by 9:30am.     On the other hand, I've also heard my overly dramatic friend call having a dental procedure done as "surgery"-  and OK, it was surgery - it was done at the dentist's office and the appointment took less than 60 minutes.  And they were able to drive to and from the appointment.  And recovery wasn't complicated.   The way they said they were having surgery next week wednesday and they wouldn't be able to go to the party the Saturday after that made it sound really dramatic like they'd be in the hospital and that's why they couldn't go to the party on saturday.     I know why they didn't want to go to the party - they couldn't really eat and drink in "party mode".     I guess maybe it's a "know the person who saying stuff, so you can filter/translate/ask more questions" kind of thing. 

But back to the topic: 
The Dr. Appointments might be cancer treatments  - as they might being going every week or every 10 days.  And depending on the treatment you can drive yourself there, get the treatment, and then drive yourself home.    The 9 months thing MIGHT be that if the cancer treatment isn't as successful as the doctors would like it to be - then surgery might be required.   I can see where treatment might go 3 to 6 months and then the wait a bit and retest happens.   perhaps surgery is something in the plan - if the first course and maybe a second course of less invasive treatments (3 to 6 months)  don't work as well as expected.   The doctors may not know if surgery is an option/needed until they go through all the "most likely to solve the problem" courses of action.  I'm betting once it's determined surgery is required it happens in a timely fashion.   
   

Cancer and it's treatments aren't what they were 20 or 30 years ago.   Especially when it's discovered/diagnosed early.  There are lots of treatment plans that do not include surgery (as in removing the cancerous stuff).  or long hospital stays for treatment.  There are lots of people you are passing by or talking to in everyday life who you would never suspect are being treated for cancer.    

FWIW:  The relative who had a kidney removed was in the hospital overnight and then went home to recover.   A week after the surgery they were doing routine day to day stuff (not strenuous stuff).   

A relative recently died from pancreatic cancer (which is one of the bad/fast ones).  And for them it was fast - less than 6 months from diagnosis to death.    I don't want to victim blame - but they were morbidly obese for decades, did the minimum to deal with type2 diabetes, and avoided medical care at all costs.   They died at 60yo.   At least it was quick-ish.  From what I heard there wasn't much that could be done - the relative wasn't ever well enough to make treatments easy.    

This is very helpful - I didn’t really think about it that way. Thank you!

[countrygirl2]

My husband has prostrate cancer. He was diagnosed and within a couple of months had surgery, was still positive so take hormones and just completed 37 weeks of radiation. That was finished April 17th, May 17th goes back for new PSA, will know the results two days later. His surgeon is very fast and aggressive. We are concerned as he had 15 biopsies all positive. Is in the bladder neck and lymph glands was also in the fringes, so we hope they got it. They also removed 6 lymph nodes. Will know soon, good healthcare here in semi rural Indiana. We have good healthcare through Medicaid and Plan G supplement.

I meant to say through Medicare and his supplement G, I have supplement F. Our DD has medicare and Medicaid, not us.

[toomuchreality]

Well wishes to everyone dealing with this topic. It can be a tough one, for sure.

I wish you the best, with whatever you're going through.

•♡•

[bean29]

I had Thyroid cancer.  Thyroid cancer is slow growing and has a very low death rate/some of the best outcomes.  My Thyroid cancer was diagnosed in September, and I think my Thyroid was removed in January.  then they gave me radioactive iodine and I was off of work for a few weeks.  I had been on layoff anyways.  I went back to work in Early May.

You don't know what type of cancer Fred has, so it is hard to say if they should be doing anything faster/quicker etc.  Idk.  

I also wish you friends the best outcome possible.

[happyhoix]

I would find a way to talk to Fred directly. Straight from the horse’s mouth.

Back during the pandemic, DH went to take some stuff to my son’s house. DH gets home and announces that DS and DDIL both had covid but were doing well. I said ‘why did they invite you to come by if they had Covid?” DH didn’t know. “Did you at least stand outside and talk in the yard?” No - they talked inside their house. ‘Did you all have face masks on? (DH was never a big face mask fan). No, no one had face masks on. “So you stood in their living room talking to them for 20 minutes with no face masks on and they both had Covid? YES.

Annoyed at DS. DH is close to 70 with health issues, what was DS thinking? Had he become a Covid denier? Talked to him on the phone, and no one had Covid. They were both fine. DH got it completely wrong.

Talk to Fred . Hoping for the best for all of them.

[tractor]

Cancer Sucks, there's no getting around it. It also takes on so many varieties, that there is no one size fits all treatment. One of my direct reports is currently going through this with his wife. They are fortunate to have access to one of the best cancer research facilities in the country and she has had multiple biopsies over the past three weeks. It seems everywhere they look, more "spots" are found. They are still waiting for treatment plan. She is 45 with two teenaged kids at home.